|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
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As an additional cost to play Natural Order, sacrifice a green creature.
Search your library for a green creature card and put it into play. Then shuffle your library.
Natural Order Discussion
1 week ago
Hey man! I got a few suggestions -- I hope you find them helpful:
The best aspect of playing green is its access to turn one dorks. I'm sure you've noticed your Birds of Paradise is a great play to lead with; you should consider the following: Llanowar Elves , Elvish Mystic , Fyndhorn Elves , Avacyn's Pilgrim and Orcish Lumberjack . Bloom Tender and Priest of Titania are good two-mana plays in this sort of package.
Another benefit to running dorks in green, aside from their mana, is that they're bodies. An Overrun effect can easily take the game, if you have a critical mass of creatures. Ironically, Overrun itself is pretty mediocre as far as Overrun effects go... I suggest running Triumph of the Hordes and Craterhoof Behemoth , since these are great ways to make an army of tiny duders into an army of deadly duders. Craterhoof Behemoth is especially good, since you can fetch it out with Natural Order , should you choose to run that.
So, I'm not quite sure how your deck is going to play. However, I suspect you'll have a lot of creatures during the mid-game. I think you should consider running Shamanic Revelation and/or Slate of Ancestry .
Veil of Summer is one of the more absurdly good cards printed recently. I highly suggest running it in any green deck -- it's a cantrip that protects your guys from counters and spot removal. There're some really odd niche-cases it's good in, too, like against Bitter Ordeal .
I don't think Path to Exile is very good. In general, ramping your opponents in a format with forty life and several enemies trying to do busted things is a dangerous move. I like your Swords to Plowshares a lot more.
Naya has access to some serious hate, in the form of bears and in the form of regular stax pieces. You should at least consider some of the following: Aven Mindcensor , Aura of Silence , Winter Orb (especially if you're running the dorks mentioned in (1)), Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Price of Glory , Root Maze , Armageddon (if you're like me and don't mind getting flipped off), Gaddock Teeg , Collector Ouphe , Stony Silence , Null Rod , Kataki, War's Wage and similar such nonsense. These are a really good way to slow down opponents long enough to get your army out and swinging.
Finally, depending on your meta, there're a few green enchantments you should strongly consider: Choke , Carpet of Flowers and Compost are all super powerful, given the right meta. Blue and black are the two most common colors in EDH, so you can be pretty certain you'll be facing one or both most of the time.
Right. That's all I got for now. Good luck!
1 week ago
What I suspect is going on is that your opponents are doing a lot on the aggro front. There're a few ways you can deal with this.
First, you can discourage your opponents from attacking you. Propaganda is probably the best-known card for this, but there're plenty of others. No Mercy comes to mind -- it was one of my favorite cards when I was a kid. Crawlspace and Silent Arbiter are good ways to limit the number of attackers an opponent can pressure you with, and assuming no trample, you likely can just chump away whatever they're hitting you with. Finally, Meekstone will keep the most dangerous ones tapped. I think any of these will probably be better than AEtherize , especially since none of them are 'single use.'
You also seem to be light on wrath effects. Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow ninjutsu ability gets around commander tax, meaning he'll really only ever cost to put down -- so feel totally free to wrath with him on the board. Kindred Dominance strikes me as being way too much mana to do real damage in the earlier stages of the game, especially if you're fighting a bunch of aggro decks. Damnation is, I think, preferable here, as are Toxic Deluge and Cyclonic Rift . Damnation and Toxic Deluge being four and three mana, respectively, means you can conceivably cast them before you're getting smacked but while your opponent has a summoning-sick army. Cyclonic Rift 's overload ability IS seven mana, but being instant speed makes up for that (at least in my opinion).
If you include wrath effects, non-creature token producers are worth including -- they'll give you creatures to 'return' with Yuriko's ability while surviving the wrath themselves. Bitterblossom is the best here, though like most good cards, it's relatively expensive. Other options include Breeding Pit , Graf Harvest (if you wrath Yuriko to the 'yard, you can exile him to the command zone to create a token, then ninjutsu him out on the token when it attacks), Spawning Pit and Volrath's Laboratory (which can make ninjas).
If you decide to run some of the above cards, they should replace your one-for-one removal cards. In general, EDH games will have you facing three opponents, and therefore three times the number of cards you have. You therefore want cards that will effect more than a single card your opponent has. Hero's Downfall and Grasp of Darkness may be great in one-on-one formats, but in EDH they simply don't pack enough punch. (One interesting exception to the 'limit your one-for-ones' rule is the inclusion of counter magic. In general, I think of counterspells in EDH as more than one-for-ones, since A) they can save more than one of your cards if you counter something like By Force or Fire Covenant , and B) they can stop combos cold, making your opponent waste all the combo pieces s/he/they cast before the countered card.)
I have some non-combat related suggestions, too -- I hope I'm not being presumptuous in offering them:
I'm sure you've noticed how awesome your Treasure Cruise is: being eight on a Yuriko flip but often costing around two or three mana at most to cast is pretty busted. There're other delve cards to consider, though I do think it is likely more than one or two in a list will occasionally cause issues when delve gets in its own way. Dig Through Time is a primary candidate here, as it is also eight mana, but it also happens to be an instant (yay!). Temporal Trespass also comes to mind.
In magic, there're a bunch of alternate casting-cost cards that work well with your general, as their CMC is usually pretty high. Unfortunately, some of them are expensive -- I'll just mention them, in case you have more money to blow than I typically do: Force of Will and Commandeer . Spinning Darkness , Gush and Misdirection are all more affordable and alright cards in their own right, though they are significantly less powerful.
Nexus of Fate is a pet card of mine, and I think it'd be genuinely good here. It hits for seven, but doesn't 'really' make you tap out since if it resolves you get another untap step right away.
A creature to consider is Baleful Strix . Having deathtouch and flying make it really hard to block, and if you keep ninjutsu-ing it back to your hand you can keep casting it for the draw trigger.
Top-deck manipulation is a good way to make sure your general hits his hardest, and your Brainstorm is a good start. Mystical Tutor isn't too much money, though the black version, Vampiric Tutor , definitely is a lot of money nowadays. Scheming Symmetry is an alright replacement, though you'll want to be sure to kill the opponent who searches, or at least remove his top card. Though they're pricey, Sensei's Divining Top and Jace, the Mind Sculptor really are the best ways to mess with your top few cards in the game; Jace has the added bonus, like Brainstorm , of being able to top cards that you want to reveal with Yuriko's trigger again. Dream Cache and Telling Time are both OK top deck manipulation.
Cantrips are good. I suggest running Preordain in addition to your Ponder and Brainstorm . It's not as good as the two you have (in this deck), since it can only leave one card on top of your deck for Yuriko triggers, but I still think it's worth playing. As a turn one play, it's gonna be hard to beat. (Of course, Ponder does still beat it.)
Finally, mass card-draw is a good thing. Even if it doesn't trigger Yuriko, having spells to cast is always preferable to not having them (exception: Mindslaver ). Windfall is excellent, especially if you put in Narset, Parter of Veils (I think you should). Fact or Fiction and Chemister's Insight are both good instant-speed draw spells.
Only good things! Hope this helped.
1 week ago
I always liked elves. I have a few suggestions:
Concerning your land-base: I think you should cut Command Tower and (maybe) Reliquary Tower . Since your commander is mono-colored, Command Tower is only ever going to produce ; however, it will never be a forest or a basic land. This means that you cannot untap it with Arbor Elf and it dies to Blood Moon , Back to Basics , Wasteland , Ruination , Magus of the Moon , Dwarven Miner , Dwarven Blastminer , Shivan Harvest ... I think just a regular Forest is significantly better, as you generally want to avoid undue risk. Reliquary Tower is a bit trickier, and it will depend on how the deck plays. However, as a general rule, if you have an excess of seven cards in hand, then you should have a developed board to support it and either win or get down to seven. I have long ago stopped including unlimited hand-size effects in my decks, and I've never needed one since; however, if your experience with this deck says otherwise, do please ignore me.
Gaea's Cradle is amazing, but also about the same price as a used liver. For that reason, you may have more luck running something like Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip, which is essentially the same card (though slightly slower), and much more affordable. Pairing this with Deserted Temple results in instant fun.
Your general has an Overrun effect stapled onto him, so I'm assuming that's how you generally plan to win. However, my experience has always been that if your commander is your only win-condition, your opponents will learn that and keep him off the board more or less indefinitely. I suggest running one or two alternative but similar effects: Triumph of the Hordes and/or Craterhoof Behemoth . Triumph of the Hordes has the advantage of not actually needing a full board to be lethal -- in EDH, 10 points of poison still kills a player. Craterhoof Behemoth is around $30 nowadays, but it happens to be sorta an insanely good card -- especially if you tutor it out with Natural Order or similar effects.
One of the main weaknesses of 'go wide' creature decks is that they tend to be soft to mass-removal. The best way to counteract this is by keeping a full hand, meaning that card-advantage is at a premium. Slate of Ancestry is a great way to keep generating advantage from a full board, and if you hold up mana you can activate it in response to a Supreme Verdict or similar effect. Beast Whisperer is an elf I'm surprised to see you aren't running. Skyshroud Poacher , while not an elf himself, can grab you your duders without having to bother casting them -- if he and a few other cards are what you have left in hand after a wrath effect, he can help rebuild your board.
There are some meta-specific cards you might find helpful. Gaea's Herald , Carpet of Flowers and Choke are all good in a blue-heavy meta. Compost is another draw engine that frequently nets cards, as black is generally the second best EDH color (after blue). Veil of Summer is a good card born of M20.
Right. That's all I got... hopefully you find at least some of it helpful. Good luck!
1 week ago
So, I happen to be very much in accord with RNR_Gaming in the feeling that one-mana mana-dorks will greatly improve this deck. In my experience, in a four player game, people will have a lot of other threats to worry about than mana-dorks; and if the deck is built well, with an appropriate amount of card-draw, it'll recover from a board wipe rather well. That being said, if you want to go the route of enchantment ramp, there're a bunch not in the deck that you should consider. Utopia Sprawl is a favorite of mine, especially if you pair it with an Arbor Elf . Wild Growth , Elvish Guidance and (in the right meta) Carpet of Flowers can all also produce but-tons of mana.
Part of the reason I, and I suspect RNR_Gaming suggest dorks is because, being green, you have access to a lot of creature ramp that can replace artifact ramp. If that is done, you can run cards like Collector Ouphe or Stony Silence ; in competitive metas, these two cards can often times change the course of a game more than any other card. I love artifact ramp dearly -- Kess, Dissident Mage as Storm is my favorite EDH deck -- but it is simply not as good as one mana, dork-based ramp that dodges artifact hate.
One more reason to run dorks, though this one may not really be in accord with the theme of your deck, is that they go very well with the two best win-conditions green has to offer: Craterhoof Behemoth (AKA 'Hoof Daddy') and Triumph of the Hordes . If you use something like Natural Order to slam a Craterhoof for four mana while you have a critical mass of dorks out, you can rather easily end the game right away. Similarly, Triumph of the Hordes can snipe out an Oloro, Ageless Ascetic player like few other cards; Blightsteel Colossus is the only better attacker I can think of.
Give some thought to Sneak Attack . If you have three or four dragons in hand, smacking someone with them for that much red mana may well be what you need. Lathliss, Dragon Queen and Utvara Hellkite will also gain extra value from the ETB/attack triggers. Ilharg, the Raze-Boar has a similar effect that is arguably better than Sneak Attack .
In my experience (perhaps your is different), Path to Exile is really bad in EDH. In general, ramping opponents as a side-effect of removal in a format filled with high-cost, high-payoff strategies is going to be actively dangerous. Sometimes, Path to Exile can be good for removing blockers; however, there are better ways to do this, such as Taunting Elf or even just Renegade Tactics , which has the added bonus of not costing you a card. Same goes for Settle the Wreckage .
If your meta has any blue decks, Veil of Summer is really, really, REALLY good.
Your land-count is very high. If you want to spew out lands, consider Exploration and/or Burgeoning . These can help you get out of the gate much faster than your opponents, and work especially well with your Karoo lands, like Gruul Turf .
Flameshadow Conjuring seems like a pretty busted way to squeeze extra value out of your dragons. Notably, if you populate before you sac the token, you get to keep the copy of the original token.
Finally, Sylvan Library is a hallmark of competitive green decks. This is, for the first few turns it's out, a free draw three effect; after that, its card-sorting abilities are what make it good.
Alright man, good luck! That's all I can think of for now.
2 weeks ago
BMHKain thanks for the questions here.
I'm not sure that I mentioned you as being "self-unreliant" (that doesn't sound like terminology I'd use, but I digress), but it's more along the lines that you actually, at times, sound pushy about asking others for suggestions on cuts; like you refuse to make the cuts yourself. All I would recommend is that when people make suggestions for cuts, be grateful for the ones they do give you, take all under advisement, and in the end, the final decision is yours to make. Instead of always asking for cuts, make some suggestions of your own for cuts, and get some other opinions on those. That way, we help you, and you help you. Hopefully, that helps some. ;)
Now, going back to Admiral Beckett Brass , and the ever-thought-provoking question of when to run powerful spells, and when not to. The answer is, really, it's up to you. But, let me run down my reasoning for why I suggested those cuts for that deck:
You were asking for quite a few cuts, so I looked at what was the least necessary for the deck to run. I viewed it as a more casual, fun deck, and it didn't appear that there was that one card you needed to tutor for in order for you to win or "go off" with something. When I'm cutting cards in decks, I'll look at how many tutors I run, and decide if I really need them for that deck. Again, a casual tribal deck doesn't scream out to me that it needs to run the best tutor in the game to win. I had the same thought process with Mana Drain . It's a powerful card, and I certainly don't own one, and I didn't see it as a high priority for that deck of yours to run. If you find yourself playing at a table with a bunch of 5 power level decks and bust out the Mana Drain , it might be a real downer. But again, it's your choice to run; just ask yourself if that's what the deck needs or wants, especially when making cuts.
I didn't view that deck as a competitive style of deck, set up to be a high power level deck. With that in mind, two high-powered cards like that seemed out of place.
So, with that in mind, if you plan on building a Dimir deck with a bit higher power level, and with some combo pieces you need to tutor up in order to win, then that's where I start to make room for those cards. I'd think about running a Force of Will in something like that, where I've got to counter something and am all tapped out, or lose the game. Stakes are a bit higher, so I run the more powerful stuff.
I get it, I like to play my strong cards, too. Hell, when I first built my Meren of Clan Nel Toth deck, I packed it with 6 tutors and Doomsday . The more I played it, the more I found I did't like tutoring up the same wincon every game. Also, I play with my two young sons a lot, and I want them to stay interested and keep playing with me. If I insist on tutoring and comboing off on turn 4 every time we play, then soon they don't want to play. I can't have that. If I played at my LGS, and the group was pretty tough, I'd consider changing that approach, but for now, I'm happy enough with my Demonic Tutor , Vampiric Tutor , Diabolic Intent , and Natural Order sitting in my binders.
I hope that helps. I'll see you around the boards. Feel free to drop in here, it just may be some time before I get back with you, depending on how crazy life is being.
2 weeks ago
Hey everyone, Selling some cards that I'm not using! If you're interested in any please reach out to me on my binder's wall.
Kalonian Hydra ~ M14
Mutavault ~ M14 version
Craterhoof Behemoth ~MM17
Natural Order ~ EMA
Sylvan Library ~ EMA
Vampiric Tutor ~ MM3
Demonic Tutor ~ UMA
Wasteland ~ EMA
Mana Drain ~ IMA
Urabrask the Hidden ~ IMA
Doubling Season ~ MM1
3 weeks ago
So the main bonus of green in EDH is its access to mana dorks. Llanowar Elves , Elves of Deep Shadow and Orcish Lumberjack all belong in this deck, and you may want to find a place for Elvish Mystic , Priest of Titania , Fyndhorn Elves , Birds of Paradise , Deathrite Shaman , Arbor Elf and/or Bloom Tender . Note that Arbor Elf is especially powerful if you end up running cards like Wild Growth , Elvish Guidance and/or Wild Growth . Dorks will accelerate you early game and provide sac-fodder in the late game.
Faithless Looting is a really good source of card selection for one mana. You're probably going to want to run it, as it makes a lot of mediocre hands much more keepable.
Green Sun's Zenith is a great card to consider, especially since you're already running Dryad Arbor . If you cast Green Sun's Zenith turn one for X = 0, you can fetch Dryad Arbor right away. It's a good form of one mana ramp outside dorks and enchant-lands.
A lot of your dudes are gonna die in a sacrifice deck. In order to get card-advantage out of this, you should run Grim Haruspex , Midnight Reaper and/or Harvester of Souls . Unfortunately, these don't trigger with token-deaths, but they'll still help a lot. Deathreap Ritual is similarly powerful and triggers with token deaths, though it only triggers once a turn.
Speaking of card-draw, you have access to some good stuff there. Painful Truths is a three-mana draw-three I've been very impressed with, and Shamanic Revelation is also helpful. From a permanent-based point of view, Phyrexian Arena and Slate of Ancestry are the way to go.
A lot of your removal are one-for-ones (see Terminate , Hero's Downfall , Doom Blade , etc.). In general, I find one-for-ones are usually not very powerful in a format with three opponents, as you're facing three times as many cards as you have. Your Damnation is a great start; consider Toxic Deluge , Hull Breach , Decimate , Casualties of War , Windgrace's Judgment , Reckless Spite , By Force , Ancient Grudge , etc. I've found these to be more efficient, and therefore more powerful, than one-for-ones. Some one-for-ones, though, are so tough to counter or are so efficient as is that they're worth including: Nature's Claim and your Krosan Grip come to mind.
Runes of the Deus comes to mind as a good way to force through commander damage.
I've always liked Smallpox , both in general and in EDH. You might have luck with it in this deck; similar cards include Innocent Blood , Smokestack and the card Pox itself. If you choose to go the Smokestack route, Bitterblossom and/or Ophiomancer are worth considering. They might be worth considering anyways, though.
Spellbreaker Behemoth is an efficient creature that disrupts countermagic. Harsh Mentor , Pyrostatic Pillar , Eidolon of the Great Revel , Shattergang Brothers or Stranglehold are similar ways to punish opponents while having good cards on your side.
Finally, you should consider Overrun effects as secondary win-conditions. Using Natural Order to grab Craterhoof Behemoth while you have a wide board can easily win you the game; Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling also do the job, though they're more expensive mana-wise and therefore worse. Triumph of the Hordes is a similar card that can snatch games, though it cannot be tutored as easily.
Ok! Good luck -- that's all I got.
3 weeks ago
So there're a lot of different directions you can take RG decks. I'll suggest some basic, universal additions first, and then suggest some win conditions:
The best part of green in EDH is the dorks. You should definitely run at least Llanowar Elves , but there're some other cards you should consider: Fyndhorn Elves , Elvish Mystic , Birds of Paradise , Arbor Elf , Shaman of Forgotten Ways , Somberwald Sage , Joraga Treespeaker ... If you end up having a lot of elves, running something like Priest of Titania is worth including. Depending on your meta, Carpet of Flowers can get a lot of mana. Finally, Orcish Lumberjack is a card I have been very impressed with... turning a forest into effectively a better Black Lotus is a good thing. (Note that Arbor Elf is especially good if it untaps lands enchanted with Utopia Sprawl , Elvish Guidance or Wild Growth ).
Red-green decks tend to poop out a lot of creatures and go lightly on the spells. Slate of Ancestry is an EXCELLENT way to recoup card advantage, provided you have a critical mass of creatures on the table. Commune with Lava is another excellent pseudo-card-draw thingy. If your games are usually four player games, Decimate is frequently a four-for-one, meaning that it's another good source of permanent-count advantage. Shamanic Revelation is another good draw-spell. If you have fat enough creatures, Rishkar's Expertise may merit an include. Hull Breach is a great two-for-one.
Green-red decks, which tend to be creature-heavy, can be soft to boardwipes. Heroic Intervention is a good way to protect your duders; Grim Flowering and Nature's Resurgence are good ways to recoup cards after losing a bunch of guys.
Tutors are good. Gamble is cheap these days, due to the recent reprint. Green Sun's Zenith , Tooth and Nail and Chord of Calling can all grab powerful creatures to play -- note that GSZ for X = 0 can grab Dryad Arbor , if you run it. Worldly Tutor or Sylvan Tutor are also good.
Oftentimes, green-red decks win through a combination of Stax pieces and aggro cards.
Potential Stax Pieces:
Blood Moon / Magus of the Moon : If you craft your land base carefully, you can make these into a near asymmetrical effect. A lot of decks benefit from greedy mana bases in EDH, and these are a way to punish that.
Artifact hate is pretty awesome. Collector Ouphe is powerful, since you can get your ramp from creatures while shutting off non-green players' artifact ramp; as an added bonus, you can grab it with Green Sun's Zenith or Chord of Calling . By Force is an excellent card that can nuke a lot of permanents at once, and Nature's Claim is a very efficient removal spell. Krosan Grip may be justified in a heavy-blue meta. Gorilla Shaman is good as a method of artifact-destruction that does not cost you cards. Also Reclamation Sage and Manglehorn .
Gruul has access to a lot of hatebears. Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is a really powerful dude you've already got, as he can club combo players like me really hard. Harsh Mentor is good for punishing all sorts of decks. Eidolon of the Great Revel , and his cousin Pyrostatic Pillar , are both good. Scab-Clan Berserker is similar to Kambal, Consul of Allocation in Orzhov. Runic Armasaur , too.
Cards like Root Maze can shut down combos really quickly, and City of Solitude / Price of Glory can prevent/discourage countermagic. Pyroblast or the Maybeboarded Red Elemental Blast can also be worth running.
Most of the best green decks end the game with an alpha-strike. Craterhoof Behemoth is the best for this, as it can be tutored out with Natural Order or a high-cost Green Sun's Zenith . Similarly, Overrun is good, but I suggest Triumph of the Hordes as a more potent alternative. This does, of course, require creatures on the board, so I suggest some of the following duders:
Eternal Witness (from Maybeboard)
Deep Forest Hermit / Thelonite Hermit / Deranged Hermit : These make bodies for Craterhoof Behemoth and Slate of Ancestry ; also good if you end up running Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip or Gaea's Cradle .
Beast Whisperer : Added bonus of card advantage.
...and the aforementioned hatebears can also attack.
Good luck! That's all I got.
Natural Order occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.03%