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Trade Routes Discussion
2 months ago
Now that I think of it, if you've got anything that can fetch one, and you're already running Field of the Dead , it might not be a bad idea to run a single Wastes as another differently named basic land you can tutor up/fetch.
If you want some budget ramp options that can do some work, Dreamscape Artist is criminally underrated in non-infinite Tatyova, where it's a blue Harrow on a stick, which is insanely good in Tatyova landfall. Similarly, Silverglade Pathfinder is quite reasonable, as is Parcelbeast . None of these require a high land count to be useful cards, and with your untap effects they get even better. Dreamscape is nearly free to use, as long as you've still got lands in deck (and can discard a card).
I would consider more Moonfolk, maybe Soratami Mirror-Mage . It is a shock to opponents when they see you use it, it is pretty janky looking. The effect is pretty strong, and if you can cheat lands into play, it can be a free bounce effect (super strong with Retreat to Coralhelm based combo). Even if you can't cheat lands in, instant speed bounce is really strong. Also strong and an honourary Moonfolk is Trade Routes , which can nab landfalls or dig if you're desperate. The dig ability is a huge pay off when you need it, and if you've got a Ramunap Excavator type card out you are in good shape indeed.
Very cool deck, fun to play around with!
3 months ago
Hey Weird_Frisbee! Haha glad you like it! Yeah ramp would be good, but the problem is that for Seismic and Swans you would have to have some form of ramp twice, requiring extra nonlands.
The deck is all-in combo, but can actually play out in a grindy midrangy way, so cards like Anger of the Gods and Trade Routes can be really huge when you either don’t draw the combo or it gets disrupted. Adding addition nonlands for ramp would be really tight, because the deck just needs the lands to work haha.
But it is definitely a blast to play.
3 months ago
Ignore Trade Secrets from previous comment. I meant -> Trade Routes
5 months ago
5 months ago
At Nava's request i'm posting suggested changes, additions, cuts, and my thoughts on them. She requested that I not stick to only budget, but keep the max single card value under $30 (I kept it under $20 for the most part and largely even lower than that). As such, here are my thoughts and recommendations.
Courser of Kruphix- Ramp, pulls cards off the top of your deck so you are more likely to draw useful cards and just directly drop your lands onto the battlefield
Living Lightning- a useful elemental that allows you to recast your instants/sorceries
Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar- A very powerful card that also allows you to bounce your lands so you can replay them for more effects
Nyxbloom Ancient- Triple mana on an elemental.
Overgrowth Elemental- A useful elemental that pumps your creatures and gains you life.
Ramunap Excavator- Replay your sacrificed and destroyed lands. Fantastic in a lands deck. Omnath feeds on lands, and the more you drop the more cards you can draw and counters you can give out.
Roil Elemental- A fantastic landfall ability that allows you to grab key pieces from your opponents and use them against each other
Seedborn Muse take full advantage of your lands and abilities without worrying about being tapped out
Titania, Protector of Argoth- land recursion, elemental generation.
World Shaper- land recursion
Birds of Paradise- One of the best dorks in the game
Sylvan Caryatid- Fantastic dork
Brighthearth Banneret- You are a lands deck. You have more than enough mana and this simply doesn't do enough for you.
Chandra's Embercat- This will be a recurring comment from me. You are a lands deck with plenty of ways to ramp. This is a very limited card that costs too much and doesn't do enough for you. You are a lands deck. Increase the number of ways you can pull lands out of your deck to further your decks goals and increase the chances of drawing a non-land card that will help you more.
Embodiment of Insight- Too expensive for the effect. Also, personally I don't like turning lands into creatures as it makes them incredibly vulnerable without giving enough benefit.
Embodiment of Spring- Too expensive and not nearly good enough.
Generator Servant- The haste isn't important enough for your creatures as you very rarely have anything massive enough or has a useful enough tap effect that is being cast from your hand to require it. Furthermore, you are a lands deck with plenty of ways to ramp. This is a very limited card that costs too much and doesn't do enough for you. You are a lands deck. Increase the number of ways you can pull lands out of your deck to further your decks goals and increase the chances of drawing a non-land card that will help you more.
Grove Rumbler- This card is terrible. Four for a 3/3 trample that has an effect that will pump it slightly for one turn. This is awful. It feels like this card was only put in due to it being an elemental.
Lavakin Brawler- Rarely do you ever have enough elementals out for this to be worthwhile. Not that it's terrible, but there are so many better cards that can be put in its place.
Parcelbeast- Doesn't get enough value to justify the slot
Smokebraider- You are a lands deck with plenty of ways to ramp. This is a very limited card that costs too much and doesn't do enough for you. You are a lands deck. Increase the number of ways you can pull lands out of your deck to further your decks goals and increase the chances of drawing a non-land card that will help you more.
Tireless Tracker- This has nothing to do with your deck and you're better off finding other draw engines
Surrak Dragonclaw- No synergy with the deck and not nearly good enough to justify the high mana cost.
Field of the Dead
Bring your land count to 38 or so
Coral Atoll- This is terrible. I know you're going for the bounce effect, but this is far worse for several reasons. Firstly, it only gives you blue mana as opposed to multicolored. Secondly, it requires specifically an island to be returned as opposed to any land that you can then take advantage of. And thirdly, it requires the land to be untapped which means that not only does it come in tapped, but it requires an untapped island which means you can't even use that land and then return it for value. This is awful. I don't love the bounce lands either, but I understand what you're going for and their value. This has neither.
Lumbering Falls, Raging Ravine, Wandering Fumarole- These man lands are in here entirely because they can become elementals, but really aren't worth running. They are come in tapped, cannot be fetched, and cost 4 mana to turn into a creature, largely negating any benefit. They're really bad and I highly recommend cutting them for more basics.
Unclaimed Territory- Not really worth the value. It's colorless more often than not and another basic land will give you more value than that more often.
Mana Vault- Nava already owns a copy of this in her Nekusar deck, so it can be added here without issue.
Strionic Resonator- Copy all of your ETB triggers, as well as any other triggered abilities. Fantastic
Chaos Warp- Removal on your own pieces or an opponents. Bypasses indestructible and often is allowed through without being counterspelled due to the fact that it's usually replacing a piece that people agree is a fair target rather than outright destroying or removing without replacing. A fantastic card overall
Constant Mists- Great protection when you need it, plus it can be bought back if needed. Lands can be recovered through multiple means.
Disallow- A must have for counterspells. It covers all possible basis and is fantastic.
Heroic Intervention- Hexproof and indestructible at instant speed for 2. Amazing.
Krosan Grip- Split second artifact/enchantment destruction. Among the best removal for them there is.
Force of Vigor- Free artifact/enchantment removal with multiple targets.
Swan Song- 1 drop counterspell that hits everything but creatures. A great counterspell to have on hand.
Counterspell- There are better cards to replace this with that are still very cheap/budget and are overall better
Growth Spiral- A decent card but we can do better given the range of cards available in commander
Inspiring Call- See Growth Spiral
Return to Nature- There are so many better versions of this for an equal if not lesser cost. Or, for one more there are better cards which I will be recommending.
Struggle / Survive- Too limited, not enough value, not powerful enough.
Tale's End- This is just a bad version of disallow that very rarely gets any value.
Withstand Death- This is a bad version of other similar cards.
Wrap in Vigor- Very rarely do mass destruction effects happen, and when they do the usually say "cannot be regenerated". This seems really good but i've never really seen it get any value and will typically be a dead card most of the time.
Genesis Wave- Drop all the permanents (lands included) that you can afford.
Life from the Loam- pull lands from your graveyard and keep your engine going without running out. Omnath feeds on lands, and the more you drop the more cards you can draw and counters you can give out.
Nature's Lore, Three Visits- Pull forests (basic and non-basic that are forests) from your deck. Very helpful at any time.
Scapeshift- Grab all the lands you want, plus trigger your landfall and other such triggers
Splendid Reclamation- Pull all the lands from your graveyard. Nuff said.
Tempt with Discovery- If one person takes it then it's a better Explosive Vegetation. If more then it's an amazing card, but even if no one else does you get to pick your land and in a lands deck you will get more value.
Windfall- Refills your hand, interferes with opponent's plans, dumps lands in graveyard for later use.
Ground Assault- very limited and not worth running. There are better cards with similar if not stronger effects available to you
Hull Breach- There are better cards with similar if not stronger effects available to you
Quasiduplicate- no real apparent benefit to this over other cards that can more directly further your end goal.
Sylvan Awakening- I don't recommend turning your lands into creatures, especially enmass. It's just asking for all your lands to be mass removed. Very dangerous and will rarely get the payoff you need. Limited and will be a dead card in hand except in very specific scenarios.
Burgeoning- land Acceleration
Trade Routes- Bounce lands for more triggers and value, and in a pinch you can pitch them for more cards. Mana swamped becomes a thing of the past.
Exploration- Land acceleration
Domri, Anarch of Bolas- It seems like the main reason this is being run is for the +1 ability, which is really not worth running a card like this for. Not enough value.
Nissa, Steward of Elements- Without a large number of counters on her she gets minimal value, and if you do pay enough mana to make her viable there are already better cards you can run for those costs.
Eternal Witness- Unless you find your creatures or important cards dead often, or have a real way to take advantage of the cards in your graveyard, this is unnecessary and doesn't do enough for the deck.
Fertilid- A decent card but i've never found it gets enough value for the cost. it's a minimum of 5 mana for 1 basic land. You need to do this at least 3 or 4 times to really get enough value to be worth running over a land fetch.
Leafkin Druid- This is okay as a dork and an elemental, but I've found with tribal decks that you are better off running other creature and card types that better fuel your deck as a whole and really allow the tribe to shine, rather than forcing the tribe everywhere.
Tectonic Giant- Not good enough.
Animar, Soul of Elements- Unnecessary.
Zendikar Resurgent- Largely unnecessary due to the high number of lands in the deck, but can be kept if you feel it worthwhile
Frontier Bivouac- decent but comes in tapped and cannot be fetched. In a lands deck you will rarely be hurting for colors and the fact that this comes in tapped slows you down.
Simic Growth Chamber, Izzet Boilerworks, Gruul Turf- While I see what you are going for with these, they overall do slow you down and you have enough lands (once you bump up to 38 or so) that you shouldn't have any issue with them. I'd swamp these for basics as you have far more ways to grab those.
5 months ago
I'm playing a deck with possible infinite landfall combo's that has more pieces interacting with Retreat to Coralhelm, maybe not from turn 3, but still, redundancy is key in commander:
Lotus Cobra will help you make all the mana you need. Knight of the Reliquary + Retreat can put all your forests and plains into your graveyard for a big Splendid Reclamation. Tunneling Geopede / Spitfire Lagac will kill your opponents even if they'd play an Eldrazi Titan that shuffles back their graveyard. I'd also include a few ways to give haste to a creature, so you won't have to wait a turn before you can combo.
So the best tip I can give you with this combo: breach out to more colours than just Blue and White. Landfall decks just work best with Green included, because Green can get you a lot of lands into play, even when you're not going infinite. There's more landfall pieces in existence than alternatives to Retreat to Coralhelm, so that might improve the consistency of the deck, making it more enjoyable to play, even if you're having a hard time assembling the combo.
Unless you want to challenge yourself and make a Landfall deck without green. In that case I'm all for it and wish you the best of luck!
6 months ago
Trade Routes is amazing; I don't think it's a matter of either/or between it and Excavation. I can just try and find a swap for it. Drownyard Temple is an excellent suggestion and very easy to slot in since it's a land.
6 months ago
Cards that don't make sense for you:
---- you currently have all of 3 cards that can produce colorless mana, and it's a 4 color deck, so the premium is on hitting colors, not odd utility lands. Not to mention that they're another means of ramping in the deck, which would be the priority.
---- I've played with and replaced it in Mina and Denn. 2 hard pips of red for what it provides isn't worth it. You'd be better off running Trade Routes for the effect. you're not likely to want to pay to throw lands, so the pay to bounce isn't ideal for a hard green each time.
---- For the cost it should just be something like Boundless Realms, cheaper to cast and gets you more lands.
---- This one is just real bad; you have all of 7 potential legendary permanents to hit, add that to the lands and that leaves 44% of the deck as a viable hit from starting. It's always going to be below 50%. For the effect, you would be better off with Genesis Wave since most of your permanents aren't legendary.
Cards to Consider: