Argothian Elder

Argothian Elder

Creature — Elf Druid

Tap: Untap two target lands.

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Unformat Legal
Vintage Legal
Casual Legal
Custom Legal
Quest Magic Legal

Latest Decks as Commander

Argothian Elder Discussion

DreadKhan on Lonis Combo Deck

2 weeks ago

Hate to double post, but Intruder Alarm makes me think of Temur Sabertooth . I think you'd need access to 4 mana to generate infinite mana that way (and a 1 mana creature to bounce), not sure if that is feasible with your deck, you might have to switch some of the single mana dorks for 2 or better dorks. Argothian Elder is versatile, but I think Wirewood Channeler might be a good solution, since it should be good for at least 2 with your Commander out, if not 3 or more since it counts everyone's elves, and it can make any colour. There is also Priest of Titania but not having access to blue would be a drawback, and that's not a cheap card to test with anymore.

This is just some brainstorming I got up to this morning, hope it gives you something to work with.

Yesterday on How do staggered infinite loops …

3 weeks ago

Third scenario:

And if I'm all correct so far, then let's assume that Player 1 instead has a more realistic infinite damage combo in the form of Experiment Kraj , Argothian Elder with a +1/+1 counter, Ashaya, Soul of the Wild , Pemmin's Aura enchanting Kraj, Island , Prodigal Sorcerer with a +1/+1 counter. (Tap Kraj using the Elder's ability to untap Kraj and an Island, tap Kraj to deal 1 damage to any target, pay the Island's to untap Kraj with the Aura.)

Yesterday on None

3 weeks ago

I want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

From MTG Tournament Rules

4.4 Loop

A loop is a form of tournament shortcut that involves detailing a sequence of actions to be repeated and then performing a number of iterations of that sequence. The loop actions must be identical in each iteration and cannot include conditional actions ("If this, then that".)

...

If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop within a turn, each player in turn order chooses a number of iterations to perform. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.


So, Player 1 is the active player and controls a Spirit Mirror . Player 2 is the nonactive player and controls a Conspiracy naming Reflection, and a Frenetic Efreet .

Player 1 wants to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to resolve the Efreet's ability to potentially save itself. Both players can activate their abilities in response to the other player activating theirs, and wishes to keep on doing so. The modus is on the active player to not continue the loop. In this case, Player 2 gets a chance to save the Efreet before Player 1 can destroy it. Assuming we wait until Player 2's turn, if the same loop were to play out, then Player 1 (the nonactive player) would be able to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to save it.

Is this right?


Likewise, say Player 1 is has infinite damage in the form of an artifact that reads ": This permanent deals 1 damage to any target." And Player 2 has an artifact with ": You gain 1 life."

As long as Player 1 is the active player, they can't win the game. But when Player 2 becomes the active player, Player 1 can win the game because Player 2 is forced to decide how many iterations of the loop they're committing to before Player 1 does, and thusly 1 damage will get through when the loop resolves (and then it can be restarted)?


And if I'm all correct so far, then let's assume that Player 1 instead has a more realistic infinite damage combo in the form of Experiment Kraj , Argothian Elder with a +1/+1 counter, Ashaya, Soul of the Wild , Pemmin's Aura enchanting Kraj, Island , Prodigal Sorcerer with a +1/+1 counter. (Tap Kraj using the Elder's ability to untap Kraj and an Island, tap Kraj to deal 1 damage to any target, pay the Island's to untap Kraj with the Aura.)

Player 2 still controls the nonsense artifact with ": You gain 1 life."

In this case, regardless of who the active player is, Player 1 is unable to win the game as, in the shortcutting of the loop, Player 2 is able to activate the lifegain ability as many times as they choose in response to any of the three steps that form Player 1's combo that only deals 1 damage.

Is this all correct?

Yesterday on None

4 weeks ago

I want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

From MTG Tournament Rules

4.4 Loop

A loop is a form of tournament shortcut that involves detailing a sequence of actions to be repeated and then performing a number of iterations of that sequence. The loop actions must be identical in each iteration and cannot include conditional actions ("If this, then that".)

...

If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop within a turn, each player in turn order chooses a number of iterations to perform. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.


So, Player 1 is the active player and controls a Spirit Mirror . Player 2 is the nonactive player and controls a Conspiracy naming Reflection, and a Frenetic Efreet .

Player 1 wants to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to resolve the Efreet's ability to potentially save itself. Both players can activate their abilities in response to the other player activating theirs, and wishes to keep on doing so. The modus is on the active player to not continue the loop. In this case, Player 2 gets a chance to save the Efreet before Player 1 can destroy it. Assuming we wait until Player 2's turn, if the same loop were to play out, then Player 1 (the nonactive player) would be able to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to save it.

Is this right?


Likewise, say Player 1 is has infinite damage in the form of an artifact that reads ": This permanent deals 1 damage to any target." And Player 2 has an artifact with ": You gain 1 life."

As long as Player 1 is the active player, they can't win the game. But when Player 2 becomes the active player, Player 1 can win the game because Player 2 is forced to decide how many iterations of the loop they're committing to before Player 1 does, and thusly 1 damage will get through when the loop resolves (and then it can be restarted)?


And if I'm all correct so far, then let's assume that Player 1 instead has a more realistic infinite damage combo in the form of Experiment Kraj , Argothian Elder with a +1/+1 counter, Ashaya, Soul of the Wild , Pemmin's Aura enchanting Kraj, Island , Prodigal Sorcerer with a +1/+1 counter. (Tap Kraj using the Elder's ability to untap Kraj and an Island, tap Kraj to deal 1 damage to any target, pay the Island's to untap Kraj with the Aura.)

Player 2 still controls the nonsense artifact with ": You gain 1 life."

In this case, regardless of who the active player is, Player 1 is unable to win the game as, in the shortcutting of the loop, Player 2 is able to activate the lifegain ability as many times as they choose in response to any of the three steps that form Player 1's combo that only deals 1 damage.

Is this all correct?

Inkmoth on Yeva Draw-Grow

1 month ago

OLD

=16/14 cmc

NEW

= 13 cmc

These are the incoming changes guys. Expect a fully fleshed out primer implementing all of these. Also, the Moxfield primer is just going to be a redirect to the T/O primer. (Sorry guys, keeping up with multiple primers is a giant pain in the ass and I got ton on my plate atm).

Eventually I'll re-port the whole updated primer back to Moxfield.

If want to discuss these changes with the whole Yeva community, myself included join our server:

Yeva is cEDH?

Yesterday on How do staggered infinite loops …

1 month ago

This is a game rules question that I'm intentionally posting here because, after the ~15 hour downtime, the preview in the Rules Q&A section is showing no line breaks or text formatting and this is a pretty long post. If a mod could move it over please, I'd appreciate it.


I want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

From MTG Tournament Rules

4.4 Loop

A loop is a form of tournament shortcut that involves detailing a sequence of actions to be repeated and then performing a number of iterations of that sequence. The loop actions must be identical in each iteration and cannot include conditional actions ("If this, then that".)

...

If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop within a turn, each player in turn order chooses a number of iterations to perform. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.

-

So, Player 1 is the active player and controls a Spirit Mirror . Player 2 is the nonactive player and controls a Conspiracy naming Reflection, and a Frenetic Efreet .

Player 1 wants to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to resolve the Efreet's ability to potentially save itself. Both players can activate their abilities in response to the other player activating theirs, and wishes to keep on doing so. The modus is on the active player to not continue the loop. In this case, Player 2 gets a chance to save the Efreet before Player 1 can destroy it. Assuming we wait until Player 2's turn, if the same loop were to play out, then Player 1 (the nonactive player) would be able to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to save it.

Is this right?


Likewise, say Player 1 is has infinite damage in the form of an artifact that reads ": This permanent deals 1 damage to any target." And Player 2 has an artifact with ": You gain 1 life."

As long as Player 1 is the active player, they can't win the game. But when Player 2 becomes the active player, Player 1 can win the game because Player 2 is forced to decide how many iterations of the loop they're committing to before Player 1 does, and thusly 1 damage will get through when the loop resolves (and then it can be restarted)?


And if I'm all correct so far, then let's assume that Player 1 instead has a more realistic infinite damage combo in the form of Experiment Kraj , Argothian Elder with a +1/+1 counter, Ashaya, Soul of the Wild , Pemmin's Aura enchanting Kraj, Island , Prodigal Sorcerer with a +1/+1 counter. (Tap Kraj using the Elder's ability to untap Kraj and an Island, tap Kraj to deal 1 damage to any target, pay the Island's to untap Kraj with the Aura.)

Player 2 still controls the nonsense artifact with ": You gain 1 life."

In this case, regardless of who the active player is, Player 1 is unable to win the game as, in the shortcutting of the loop, Player 2 is able to activate the lifegain ability as many times as they choose in response to any of the three steps that form Player 1's combo that only deals 1 damage.

Is this all correct?

Yesterday on None

1 month ago

Player 1 is the active player and controls a Spirit Mirror . Player 2 is the nonactive player and controls a Conspiracy naming Reflection, and a Frenetic Efreet .

Player 1 wants to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to resolve the Efreet's ability to potentially save itself. Both players can activate their abilities in response to the other player activating theirs. This is a staggered infinite, which is only an infinite because it reaches the same game state* as long as neither player chooses do anything different. As I understand it, the rules specify that this can't result in a draw like with uninterruptable infinites, and that the modus is on the active player to not continue the loop. In this case, Player 2 gets a chance to phase out the Efreet before Player 1 can destroy it. Assuming we wait until Player 2's turn, if the same combo were to play out, then Player 1 (the nonactive player) would be able to destroy the Efreet before Player 2 gets the chance to save it.

At least, that's what I remember reading one time in a post dated from several years ago that I can't find. Firstly, is this still correct?

*Also, I'm confused about what exactly defines the "same game state" in a combo. It's not exactly the same, because each set of activations would result in the same outcome except that now the game has an additional set of abilities on the stack to resolve.


Now let's assume Player 1 is has an infinite damage combo assembled with Experiment Kraj and, uh... Argothian Elder with a +1/+1 counter, Ashaya, Soul of the Wild , Pemmin's Aura enchanting Kraj, Island , Prodigal Sorcerer with a +1/+1 counter. Player 1 can deal an indefinite amount of damage to any number of targets, 1 at a time. (Tap Kraj using the Elder's ability to untap Kraj and an Island, tap Kraj to deal 1 damage to any target, pay the Island's to untap Kraj with the Aura.)

Player 2 somehow has an artifact that just reads ": You gain 1 life."

Assuming I'm correct in the first example, then if Player 1 is the active player in this example, then Player 2 is able to survive until their turn (in a 2-player game) regardless. But then if Player 2 is the active player, then they're the one who has to choose to not gain life in response to taking lethal damage?

As with the first example, I'm confused with if and how this qualifies as a repeated game state (as Player 2 could gain 1 life in response to taking the first instance of damage, then 200 for the next, then 5000, etc.).

Also in this second example, Player 2 as the active player is able to gain an arbitrarily large amount of life in response to each one of the three individual steps that Player 1 has to take in order to deal 1 damage to Player 2. Player 2 can literally gain 99999 life in response to taking 1 damage from Player 1. Does this somehow... change it? IDK. It seems preposterous to me that Player 2 would be forced to lose in that game state.

1empyrean on Manascape Refractor

4 months ago

Lots of lands can turn themselves into creatures, so any of those would work.

Argothian Elder and Ashaya already give you infinite untaps, so nothing is gained by adding the refractor.

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