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Echoing Truth Discussion
52 minutes ago
Heyo thanks for the helpful feedback :)
I have made a few changes regarding your suggestions,
I have cut the 3 Divination for 3 Cryptic Command and got rid of the 2 Paragon of Gathering Mists for 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor additionally I have put 3 Echoing Truth + 4 Tormod's Crypt in the sideboard.
However I have a bit of a problem with implementing the fourth Opt + like 3 more lands to make the deck a little more consistent (allthough I am not sure if the deck needs it but it was a random thought of mine because control decks that I know of usually run 23-25 lands),anyways thank you again and further help would be very much appreciated :)
4 days ago
Divination seems worse than more Cryptic Commands in the majority of situations. Or, alternatively, could give Chart a Course a try! The downside is worth it, IMO. 3 for 2 is just too slow for modern.
I would probably cut Paragon of Gathering Mists altogether. It's slow and clunky, and losing a 4cmc creature to a 1cmc spell is tough for a draw-go deck. I would go up to 4 snappy-do.
Considering there's no big payoffs for big mana, either, I'd probably cut Nyxthos for two Mutavault. Lets you get Wizard's Retort online and is a nice, cheap, resilient beater. Alternatively, wedge in a couple of Walking Ballista as faux-removal.
Lastly, this deck definitely wants Jace, the Mind Sculptor and, to support it, probably 8-10 fetchlands. Since you're playing the slow, long game, brainstorming or bouncing things is incredibly helpful.
I'd definitely go up to 4x Opt to smooth draws, too. The instant speed is always nice, since you can leave up counters.
4 days ago
I'll start with my background: I'm a low level points grinder. I play Storm/Jeskai Control in Modern, and Miracles/2 Chains in Legacy. I'm gonna tell you what I don't like in your deck, why I don't like it, then I'll tell you what I would put in your deck, and why I would. We all play magic differently, so I hope you at least consider some of the changes, and overall I wish you luck in your building!
Mana Leak: I would not play 4 of. Honestly, I'm not sure I would play more than 1, and absolutely no more than 2. This card is only good early game, and you're a pseudo-control deck, which means you will go long sometimes. For me, it's down to 1 here
Echoing Truth: This card just doesn't deserve a main board slot, in my opinion. In loses you card parity, as opposed to repeal, which will cantrip. I'd move to have 2 total in the side.
Scalding Tarn: You don't need this many fetches, even if you are playing Jace, considering you play 4 Serum Visions and 4 Opt. You need more lands than anything, so petition to make this pair of fetches into a pair of Islands.
Into the Roil: This card seems like an odd fit. At best, it's a Cryptic that can't counter and can't tap the team. I would take this out completely.
Pact of Negation: You already play 3 -cost spells in the main, in Disrupting Shoal. This card (for the most part) prevents you from holding up counter magic on your next turn, or playing a spell on your next turn. You already play a ton of fair counterspells, this pair is overkill. I'd take 'em out.
Vedalken Shackles: I think this is more of a meta call, but I'm basing my evaluation of these cards in the vacuum that is the national meta of modern - which means that K-Command and Bolt probably are too good to play this card. But, again, I believe this is a meta call. As per the continuity of this comment, I would be taking these out.
Ensnaring Bridge: I know this is in your maybeboard, but I'm gonna squash this right now. This card is awful in a deck that wants 7 cards in hand at all times. Unless Pox / 8 Rack is the best deck in your meta, I wouldn't even consider this.
Okay, now to what I would add:
1 Vendilion Clique & 2 Wizard's Retort: These 3 go into the main to help out your Disrupting Shoals - you have few three drops without these. Playing a total of 11 Wizards makes a pair of Wizard's Retort pretty playable. For those reasons, these come in.
1 Repeal & 1 Unsubstantiate: Both of these cards are nuts. Unsub does double duty, being both a counterspell and an unsummon (and don't forget, you can use both of these cards on your own Snapcaster Mage to avoid a bolt or just flashback another card), while Repeal cantrips and sets your opponent back one turn. Try both of these out in the main, you won't be disappointed.
2/2 Psionic Blast: 2 in the Main, 2 in the Side. There's a reason that Jeskai Control is the best control deck in Modern right now - it can become a burn deck pretty easily. This is your answer to that. The two damage is negligible - considering you don't play shocks, it seems your life total will be pretty safe in the early game. As for playing a pair in the side, it's just a continuation of the burn gameplan. Thanks Durkle for throwing this out there.
Dismember could find a spot in the side, along with Surgical, but I would only take out some number of your Relic of Progenitus to do so. Maybe 2 Relic, 1 Surgical, 1 Dismember? It seems pretty meta dependent, but thought I'd bring it up. Okay, that's all I got for you. Hope I've been of some use. Cheers!
3 weeks ago
I have also considered the problem with not having enough hard removal, currently I am trying 1 Lightning Bolt>Terminate probably, mainly cause I find the lifegain from Lightning Helix to be very strong against a lot of currnetly popular decks, but either is a viable option tbh. The Main creatures that I have had the problem with personally is Tarmogoyf, Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I've always considered a resolved Primeval Titan to just mean gameloss, given that I haven't actually fought bloom titan in my last 800 games (according to the list I keep) and versus Titanshift it really is just game over.
Dreadbore is a card I have also been considering, sorcery speed sucks, but killing planeswalkers is obviously very helpful.
Supreme Verdict is hard to cast. There aren't many great wrath effects in modern really tho, and I really feel like the deck needs to be able to do something against a flooded board, Godless Shrine is something I have trying in place of 1 Watery Grave.
Esper Charm is prolly next on the chopping block to speak from my sideboard, what I like about the card is mainly that it does something in matchups where I normally have a lot of dead cards, like Tron, other control decks, combo decks like Ad Nauseam and Bogles (lol why bother tho), it is a decent way of dealing with cast triggers too (draw phase discard 2), but for sure isn't the best card in the deck.
Regarding matchups, I never finished the section cause I haven't had time quite yet and will now give my thoughts on how you perceived the matchups.
- Amulet Titan: Haven't fought on MTGO in my last 800 games, can't say, my guess would be its fairly even.
- Death and Taxes is just plain miserable too fight, a lot of the time they can just land Leonin Arbiter before you drop your second land and then it's just over, other times they draw Ghost Quarter after Ghost Quarter. This is fortunately for us not a very common deck, but def one I would avoid if possible. I honestly don't really know what put in your sideboard to deal with it effectively either as it attacks your mana, something like Alpine Moon targeting Ghost Quarter would be an options I guess, but not a massive fan of that plan as imo its otherwise not a great card and sideboard spots are scarce.
- Storm, I actually like fighting storm with this deck, post-sideboard you can bring in Damping Sphere, Leyline of the Void and some of the general good stuff from your sideboard, you can ofc whiff and not draw any of your sideboard cards, but that's the case with all decks, but overall I have a good record against them, as both spot removal (for Baral, Chief of Compliance and Goblin Electromancer, Counterspells for EoT Gifts Ungiven and Echoing Truth together with hatepieces Damping Sphere and Leyline of the Void
- Tron variants are all fairly annoying, as they're quite easy if you draw good (like Damping Sphere, Stony Silence, Logic Knot and some lands) basically means they don't get to play the game, while most hands w/o Damping Sphere are very hard to justify keeping as T3 World Breaker into T4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is a real risk that not even counterspells can protect you from.
- Burn is a matchup I personally despise, while it is winnable, I wouldn't say its good, the 4 Lightning Helixreally do improve it a lot, and imo Kolaghan's Command is also good here.
- Most Jund variants are good matchups, but jund is a very diverse deck, just a few days ago (well GB to precise), with 8 manlands, 4 Liliana of the Veil, 4 Tireless Tracker and 3 Thrun, the Last Troll maindeck, which was obviously a miserable experience, so it varies a lot depending on the jund deck. Other times they run with few of the control-hate pieces and you kinda crush them.
- Ponza is a deck that feels tailored to fight us, strangely enough I have won both the matches I had against it, but I am fairly certain that was pretty lucky tho. Basically I just try to keep fetches uncracked for as long as possible and I am not scared of shocking myself multiple times if needed, but I am certain that my 2 wins against this deck wont repeat themself often.
- UW(G) Spirits are actually alright to fight, Spell Queller and Geist of Saint Traft are the only real threats they have, Izzet Staticaster pulls a lot of weight here post-board too.
- I personally hate fighting other control decks, mainly cause of Search for azcanta and Teferi, Hero of Dominaria as they can make the matchup feel very luck reliant. How good one is against other control decks is also very much a question of how much sideboard you dedicate to it, Esper Charm, Dispel and Negate are all obviously great here, but this deck in general lacks a way to deal with t2 Search for azcanta while being on the draw. Spell Snare could be an option, but I personally do not like the card. In general this deck has rather few ways of dealing with other control decks, if compared to for example, UW control which runs more Celestial Colonnades and actually runs Ghost Quarter and/or Field of Ruin, while having a bit more counterspells. Overall tho, control is rather rare in the current meta and I can accept having a slightly below average winrate against the decks.
- Hollow One variants are actually fairly reasonable with this ye, adding in a Terminate would obviously make it better, but Kolaghan's Command really is amazing here.
Mardu Pyromancer really comes down a lot to Blood Moon, if they manage to resolve on its generally over, but usually you have a decent shot at stopping them, or at least fetching accordingly, in which case the matchup is rather favorable, especially postboard with Izzet Staticaster
Humans, decent matchup, I'd say something like 60-65% in our favor probably, we got a lot of removal, but the nut draws from humans are basically unbeatable. Izzet Staticaster can also be amazing here.
- Living End I haven't faced either, but should be good with Leyline of the Void and a few counterspells and Supreme Verdict
- Vengebridge variants are imo easier than the straight up B/R Hollow One decks, as you can usually (not always) get a hand with Leyline of the Void and make them play a very bad aggro/midrange deck with a lot of dead cards.
- Ironworks is one of those matchups where you will rarely drop a match, between Damping Sphere, Stony Silence , Leyline of the Void, Kolaghan's Command and counterspells you're almost gauaranteed to draw a starting hand that makes them miserable, so far my record against them in 5 - 0 with few of the sideboard games even being "real" games.
- Death's Shadow depends a lot on what variant, Grixis is imo the worst one to face, but even that one is prolly around 45-50% chance to win, the non-blue variants are considerably easier as you can generally either stock up on burn spells and go face, or boardwipe>counter everything and win the more normal way.
- Titanshift sucks to face, I have considered picking up Runed Halo,Leyline of Sanctity or Alpine Moon specifically for this matchup. Their actual combo isn't even the main problem, its that they can often kill you just by playing lands at you, even if you counter their bomb cards.
1 month ago
TheRedGoat: I agree that Young Pyromancer would need more instants/sorceries to be consistent, but I'd be lying if creating at least one token of it and then making the rest of your tokens a copy of it just to make a ton more tokens didn't make the Johnny inside me excited. Takes some setting up, but if you can get a second combat phase through Combat Celebrant or similar and another copy effect, things can quickly go terribly wrong for your opponent(s). Still, the only repeatably castable instant or sorcery here is Stolen Identity (I think), and that only happens if you can reliably get the creature it's encoded on through blockers and keep it safe, so the Pyromancer might need to be looked at more closely. Or maybe Metallurgic Summonings has a place in here?
As for the theft stuff, many, if not most, of the spells that create copies of creatures can target any creature. So if they play a big scary creature, you can say "I see your Blightsteel Colossus and raise you..." copies the Colossus, enters combat phase "2 (1st copy + Brudiclad's Myr) + (number of other tokens you already had). How 'bout dem apples?"
Which is the kind of thing I think Daedalus19876 was going for, not necessarily taking their creature and then copying it.
I do think God-Pharaoh's Gift and Back from the Brink merit inclusion, though Soul Separator can be tricky to use, since it splits up the abilities and stats. Often, it's the combination of the abilities and stats that make a threat a threat.
Otherwise, I do feel that it might be prudent to have some easy sac outlets to either prevent something like a rogue Echoing Truth from ruining your day or as a way to punish boardwipes if the outlet let's you deal direct damage, as with Goblin Bombardment.
1 month ago
Echoing Truth is good against anything with a bunch of same-same tokens (spirits from Lingering Souls, for example, or elementals from Young Pyromancer). It is also good against opponents that hide behind Ensnaring Bridge, since it can remove multiple copies of the same annoying artifact.
About 20 lands should be ok, and you don't need 4 Faerie Conclave, 2 or maybe 3 would be ok. You can add a couple of utility lands, if you'd like. something like Ghost Quarter or Field of Ruin, perhaps. I don't really have a set equation for number of lands, but if you have 20 lands, you'd thereabout hit the first 3 land drops (afaik), but since you keep drawing deeper into your deck with cantrips, you also draw more lands - it's not unreasonable to think that you'd hit land 4 and 5 on time too (you'd need to dig ~ 12 cards deep to find the 4th land). At the same time, you play relatively cheap spells, meaning that you don't need much land to begin with. What you do need instead, is a steady stream of spells to stop your opponent from killing your threats, and to keep his threats away.
Peek is not Gitaxian Probe and not a worthy substitute either. Instead you could add things like Remand or Spell Pierce. Expecially the latter of them is good for protecting you creatures. Remand is not quite as great as it first seems, and you mostly don't want to have more than 2 of them in your deck. But it feels so great, when you get to play it as a pseudo-timewalk.
Consider moving Spreading Seas to mainboard. It's a strong card against some decks, and at least it cantrips against others.
If you want a more control-feel in you deck, try adding an Isochron Scepter. It almost doesn't matter which instant you imprint, it's card-advantage no matter what.
1 month ago
Well, I don't think I'll be running into an over-abundance of tokens, but I might consider Sideboarding one or two Echoing Truth if I End up having space for it but in the Main, they are clearly out-shined by Vapor Snag