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Mirri's Guile Discussion
2 hours ago
I've only played with Ydris a little bit, in the Wizards precon. I'd say if you want to play with some card draw, playing with , , and , there are lots of good card draw options that aren't single spells. Rhystic Study, Necropotence, and Phyrexian Arena are all better draw engines in my opinion. I love Soothsaying, and Sylvan Library or Mirri's Guile are great similar options in . I think those would be great for the deck. But, with that said, if you are running the other spells you have instead and trying to cascade into them, then I could be blowing smoke here.
Another tip is to remember the 7x9 rule. I just picked up on this the other day, and I like it. Basically, it says that 7-ofs in Commander is the equivalent of 4-ofs you'd play in 60 card decks. So, if you want card draw spells, go with 7. If you want top-decking spells, go with 7. You've got 9 "slots" to work with, so figure what you want the deck to do, and then fill in those slots with the cards that do what you want. You probably know all this, so I apologize if this is not new to you, and it looks like you've stayed close to that format.
I'm rambling now, but I hope I've helped some.
16 hours ago
- Impact tremors - it's not tutorable, therefore cannot reliably win you the game. I'd remove it.
- Doubling Season
- Parallel Lives
- Pattern of Rebirth
- Price of Glory
I see an argument for the last two, I suppose they're meta calls - if blue is really dominant, leave them but we'll include more hate later
5 days ago
Mirri's Guile so you can set up your draws. Plus a lot of cards that let you scry.
1 week ago
Geo67 Thanks for the comment! Kefnet looks like a LOT of fun, but I think he should only come in against controlly and other midrange strategies where he just acts as an enchantment type thing that just draws us cards--we want to play out our hand, so he's rarely a creature I'm sure. You may be right about Grapple, but Traverse is really useful manafixing in this color intensive deck, and I don't anticipate many Aven Mindcensors running around yet as there aren't many good targets (like fetches). Time will tell.
idiotbane: I respectfully but completely disagree. Long response below the cut for courtesy on the eyes! I talk about my conception of a midrange strategy & why I don't commit to a full on delirium-ASAP strategy.
block of text ahoy Show
The entire deck says "I'm gonna grind": a two mana 4/4 that sets up your next draws and fuels a graveyard endgame strategy (Torrential Gearhulk and liliana, death's majesty) does not go against that plan.
So what a midrange deck does, typically, is quickly turn a corner where you can start playing multiple threats a turn. That's the best way I can think of to describe them. They run versatile permanents that can be played early against slower decks and later against aggro decks. They try to run versatile removal that can stall against faster decks and be traded in for better cards against slower decks.
The hallmark of a midrange deck is two-fold: a solid curve, and low-cost high-impact permanents. That doesn't mean that they have to be all low drops. Look at Liliana: she's a curve topper, but she advances your boardstate in several ways immediately (if resolved). She either makes a token or reanimates a fatty that has a separate effect. She's a planeswalker, which changes your opponent's gameplan significantly unless they have lethal reach in hand.
Grim Flayer is the same kind of idea. It's a great early play if I have the luxury to throw him down and start Mirri's Guileing my draws. But what's better is that t4, I can play him as a 2/2 or 4/4 threat--forcing a choice in aggro decks to keep attacking and risk letting him grow to a 4/4 and fix my draws, or halt the aggro and face an inevitable out-valuing, and forcing a slower deck to find an answer-- and then ALSO do something like Traverse for a land, hold up removal/a counter, crack a clue, cycle cards.
That versatility is the key to any midrange strategy. Just look at 4c Saheeli: if all you see is a combo deck, you're not approaching deckbuilding with a nuanced enough viewpoint. Sure, a lot of the cards cantrip to find combo pieces. But at heart the deck is a permanent-based versatile threat deck. Will they win with Thopters? The combo? 3/2 beatdowns? Aetherworks Marvel value?
Anyway, I write a lot because I think the idea of midrange has kind of slipped out of view recently as standard becomes a lot more synergy-based--it's harder to see the nuance of midrange if there are face synergies to follow. This deck looks like it should commit to Delirium, because some high-impact cards say delirium, but it's actually just a midrange strategy that attempts to use the graveyard as an extended hand (which is exactly the kind of value and versatility a midrange strategy desires).
The key is that Grim Flayer and Traverse the Ulvenwald are perfectly fine cards without Delirium, if a little underwhelming. As I mentioned before, Grim Flayer is fantastic because if you let him do his little 2/2 trample thing, he WILL be a 4/4 trample soon because the pseudo Sylvan Library effect is so strong. Traverse the Ulvenwald is basically to help us play a 3-color deck with a lot of double-mana symbols--remember the power of Attune with Aether. But the payoff is in the lategame, after just playing like we regularly would, it can be a 1-mana tutor. That's powerful versatility.
The one card that really does want delirium is Ishkanah, but she's a one-of with several card fixing effects like Oath of Jace to get rid of her early if we don't want her, and with Traverse the Ulvenwald and Liliana to pull her out of the library/GY when we DO want her.
Which brings me to my final point: the deck doesn't really need delirium enablers. It DOES have some: Oath of Jace, Liliana, and Grim Flayer set up your GY in various ways. But the best thing that it does to get delirium is just play the game. I don't care if my Traverse/Grim Flayer is online before turn 9, after my opponent deals with Noxious Gearhulk. Its concession to delirium is just having a good balance of card types for the GY.
That's why the only card I'd consider from your list is Grapple with the Past--it's almost a cantrip, but it costs 2 mana which makes me not want to run it unless necessary. I am keeping an eye on it.
It's entirely possible that a committed delirium strategy is better than this approach, if the meta is conducive to early 2-mana 4/4s (I'd argue that it's not--Fatal Push) and ground beat-downs. But the concession you make to hardcore delirium is a diluted midrange strategy because less of your cards are mana-efficient and your threat-to-setup ratio is lowered.
I hope that helps make sense of my choices & thanks for your comment!
1 week ago
Notes for a revision, and some replies
There are some really good suggestions to the deck, but I know I am going to have a hard time cutting for them.
- Momentous Fall could go in since it is an instant and can both be used as draw and a life saver. Though I am actually afraidt to draw too many cards. Same issue with Life's Legacy and that is only sorcery speed.
- Usually budget is not an issue, but for this deck I'm trying to keep it budget'ish (as opposed to my Leeching Cotton: Oloro's Couch deck) so I won't be adding Gaea's Cradle. I'm running Mirri's Guile over Sensei's Divining Top for flavor and the devotion (I should probably consider Karametra's Acolyte)
- You have a point. Selvala, Heart of the Wilds could count for both ramp and draw.
- The Conjurer's Closet and Blade of Selves are in the mix to help the ROI on the 'friends of hydras' category.
- I think the Urza's Incubator is too weak in the ramp category for this deck (I'd prefer more doublers)
- Vines of Vastwood is great. I'll consider
- I guess I should be looking for a spot for Domesticated Hydra
- Lifecrafter's Bestiary could make it in the deck. It is sort of usefull and it has a hydra'ish picture.
I should also make room for / consider
- Rhonas the Indomitable: Trample enabler
- Prowling Serpopard: Do not counter my overly expensive spells, thank you.
1 week ago
I would suggest Mirri's Guile. You already run Sensei's Divining Top, Library, and Rack, and Mirri's Guile gives you another opportunity to manipulate the top of the library to keep from drawing the huge creatures that you'd rather Mayael into play.
2 weeks ago
Ok to answer the last few comments:
Forceofnature1 my early game usually consists of ramping into mana doublers or dropping the 3-4 mana planeswalkers and creating a token wall or drawing into advantage.
Austere Command is too useful. Being able to wipe the Artifact deck's ridiculous boardstate and any large creature or all the creatures or all enchantments gives too much value.
Diabolic Intent has been on my radar but only having 3 creatures make it less interesting. Although the majority of my 'walkers make tokens so that's kinda mute.
Jace Beleren is always on the chopping block and will likely be replaced by the Amonkhet Gideon or something of the like.
2 weeks ago
All great ideas! I run Sylvan Library and Sensei's Divining Top but now I definitely want a Mirri's Guile. til then I think I'll see if I can find a place for Thassa and see if scrying every turn will help move things along.
I just updated the list and put some more fetchlands in, as well as Brainstorm and Thada Adel, Acquisitor as ways to help move things along. I find that pretty much everyone plays blue so the islandwalk is great evasion, and I can snag their mana rocks for my own helping me boost myself along. I am definitely running creature light and sac outlet light so diabolic intent is an interesting choice. I was looking at Austere Command versus Damnation and went with damnation for the exact same reason- AC woulda decimated me. The only problem is, how else do I mass remove enchantments and artifacts?