Subterranean Tremors deals X damage to each creature without flying. If X is 4 or more, destroy all artifacts. If X is 8 or more, put an 8/8 red Lizard creature token onto the battlefield.
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Subterranean Tremors Discussion
6 days ago
Jesus... You all collectively wrote an essay since last night.
Let me try to clear up a few points in no particular order:
merrowMania, No we're not going to make any changes without taking time and reaching a consensus. I don't think we're going to start moving anyone until after the C17 commanders are in the system and we hash out their initial rankings.
buildingadeck, Oh snap, you caught us. The tiers are arbitrary. The community agrees. Delete list. Abort, abort. Time to pack it up. Nothing to see here folks. Y'all head on home now.
As far as the Jeleva vs. Kess discussion goes, regardless of whether you think Jeleva was a placeholder or not, I think it's best that we set a definition of what a placeholder commander actually IS, so there'll be less confusion on the topic:
noun - A commander chosen to be representative of a particular archetype of maindeck cards, when said archetype has been shown to have merit in cEDH AND there are no printed commanders that directly play into the archetype's gameplan available. In such a situation, the commander in the requisite color identity that offers the MOST support for the archetype is chosen to represent it a Placeholder, as long as that commander does not already have a more viable cEDH archetype that suits it best.
In terms Jeleva and Grixis Storm, the question moving forward would be whether her abilities directly play into the archetype and would be detrimental to lose, or whether they are simply unrelated but useful support that people playing Grixis Storm have gotten used to and don't want to give up.
Obviously, arguments can be made for either, and we don't have to decide this right away.
One last point, reversemermaid, you said a few times that Kess was slower than Jeleva, and I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from. My understanding of Kess was that you could begin to storm off without playing her, then if you start to run low on gas, you could pay 3 for her just to recast something you need to keep going. Wouldn't that be faster than Jeleva since you don't have to invest in her the turn before?
Ohthenoises, Since no one answered you: Yes, flickering Kess does let you flashback another spell. Her ability is phrased just like Karador's, and this is in his rulings.
(Also, it's interesting to note that Kess's ability isn't quite the same as Flashback. Kess's ability will only exile the card if it would be put back in your graveyard this turn, while flashbacked spells are exiled if they would leave the stack at all. This means you could Buyback a spell cast from your graveyard with Kess, and it would still return to your hand.)
Lilbrudder, I've been meaning to move up Tymna and add a Blood Pod list when I add my next round of decklists to the description. I just have a bit of a backlog of good decks that could be put up right now.
As for the other commanders, can you be more specific about where you think they should be move to? Just saying they're not in the right tier isn't that helpful. Also, some data to back up the changes would be nice.
Erastaroth_The_Duchess_of_Hell, I was updating my Ezuri list to include Flash-Hulk last night. I've checked out your list, and I still think my HD plan is a better back-up combo than the Aluren/Cloudstone/Paradox plan you've got on yours, but this is a lot to talk about, so let me make a comment on your deck and we can talk about Ezuri in more depth there.
buildingadeck, I'm highly against moving Dralnu up. Let me explain why, so people will stop bringing him up constantly:
Dralnu helms a storm/paradox/flashback/doomsday list that can utilize his ability to play every spell in the deck twice. These are all good qualities for a cEDH commander, and he's certainly better than the Tier 4 placement we had him in before. However, I believe there needs to be consideration in this list for ranking commanders lower based on any critical weaknesses they may have. Dralnu has a pretty obvious and apparent weakness. I think we can all agree on that.
Whenever I bring up Dralnu's obvious weakness, people usually come back with one of two answers.
The first is that you'll typically only play Dralnu when you're ready to combo out. This would be fine, except that the only available haste granter worth running in your colors is Lightning Greaves, and this deck needs to look for too many combo pieces for you to be able to rely on seeing that every game. That means that, like Jeleva, even if you only play Dralnu when you're "ready to win," he still has to sit on the board for a whole turn before doing anything useful. Now, with something like Jeleva this is no big deal, the worst thing that happens is someone removes her and you don't get your free spell, but with Dralnu a single Blasphemous Act, Rolling Earthquake, or Subterranean Tremors is going to brick your entire boardstate, all three of which see play in cEDH. MAJOR WEAKNESS.
The other answer people usually come back with is that you can win just fine without ever playing Dralnu, which is all fine and good, but isn't really a good argument for why he should be moved up in tiers, as there are other Blue/Black commanders that could be helming the same list.
In light of Dralnu's potential and how popular he seems to be, I could see him being moved to Tier 2.5, but that's the absolute highest I think he should go, keeping his drawbacks considered.
n0bunga, I think Ramos is going to end up being placed high as well, but people saying he shouldn't start so high have a valid point. We agreed back when Leovold came out that we shouldn't start commanders in Tier 1 as a matter of precedent. Kess is a bit of an exception, since it's a non-commander centric deck that is pretty much built and tested already, but Ramos is still not figured out and has very little data. Starting him in Tier 2 wouldn't hurt anything and would give people time to figure out how best to build him.
1 month ago
You get all the effects. Note that each new effect is written as a simple "if, then" statement rather than as a replacement effect that overwrites the previous effects.
Note, however, that X is not determined by what you pay. When X is involved in a cost and you get to decide what X is, you declare a value for X and the payment is then derived from that value. For example, you declare X=8. The cost for Subterranean Tremors will then be calculated as , or .
This is important if there are cost-modifying effects, such as those of Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst, Goblin Electromancer, etc. You still declare a value for X, but the total cost will be different according to the net result of those cost-modifying effects. Being forced to pay more or less does not change the value of X.
1 month ago
I was given this old card and if I play Subterranean Tremors and I pay the 8 extra for X does this do 8 damage to each creature without flying and destroy the all artifacts and do I get to put the 8/8 lizard onto the battlefield.
1 month ago
Alrighty then let's get you all set!
You've got some big things and that's not bad with your commander, but you'll need some cheaper burn spells if Rakdos can really work. With that being said, Lightning Bolt, Lava Spike, Bump in the Night, and Rift Bolt are your best friends. As for land base, try to shy away from basics, but add in as many rakdos duals that don't come in tapped as possible. I'll get you started down below.
While using rakdos, keep in mind that he takes away only colorless mana, so huge eldrazi such as Void Winnower, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Pathrazer of Ulamog, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Desolation Twin and It That Betrays can all go out for free if you play it right.
Furthermore, there are some cards that don't work too well in an aggro build like this and could use an upgrade. Take out:
- Strangling Soot
- Rend Flesh
- Wail of the Nim
- Sire Of Insanity
- Falkenrath Noble
- Maggot Carrier
- Tavern Swindler
- Rakdos Guildgate
- Blood Reckoning
- 4x Swamp
- 4x Mountain
- No Mercy
- Blood Crypt
- Ultimate Price
- Vial Smasher the Fierce
- Mogis, God of Slaughter
- Lord of the Void
- Dragonskull Summit
- Bloodstained Mire
- Command Tower
- Opal Palace
- Graven Cairns
- Shadowblood Ridge
- Leechridden Swamp
- Sulfurous Springs
- Chandra, Torch of Defiance
With these changes as well as the ones mentioned above, you'll be well on your way to a hated deck! Good luck!
2 months ago
Interesting idea, and with almost all of your creatures possessing flying, you could get some serious use out of Subterranean Tremors. Also, one of the Takir tri-lands may help you. Nomad Outpost. I'd suggest replacing Esper Panorama. I'm not entirely sure if that's legal in a commander deck of different colours, but either way with Nomad Outpost, you're going to get full benefit from it.
2 months ago
Some card suggestions:
I would remove Black Sun's Zenith, since if you use your general to cast it it kills Rosheen. I would replace with one sided wraths like: Bonfire of the Damned
Bond of Agony --> Ribbons Exsanguinate #2
Profane Command - versatility
Green Sun's Zenith - shuffle tutor
Subterranean Tremors - if your going to kill ROsheen you might as well destroy all artifacts or get a 8/8 lizard
Apocalypse Hydra - 3 mana + general for a 10/10 creature, yes please
Indomitable Creativity --> By Force removes the artifact polymoprh unless you use that on your own artifacts.
2 months ago
ComboCrazy- Earthquake is a relatively new addition. I haven't playtested it enough to say whether it is good or bad. The thought process was it could clear the board to wipe creatures so my opponents would have less permanent to sacrifice. Subterranean Tremors is a somewhat better version of that, but in playtesting I kept in my hand because i didn't want to get rid of my artifacts. By the time that didn't matter, I didn't have enough lands to cast it to make any kind of real difference.
2 months ago
Subterranean Tremors I did have in here for awhile. It underperformed. I rarely had the mana to get to the 8/8, and more often than not I held it in my hand because i didnt want to lose my own mana rocks. Granted I may replace Shattering Spree with By Force, but I'll see. Also, redundancy is needed. Not only may I not draw one (or both) artifacts are very easily recoverable. It helps to be able to make sure they stay dead.