Rolling Earthquake

Legality

Format Legality
Noble Legal
1v1 Commander Legal
Vintage Legal
Casual Legal
Vanguard Legal
Legacy Legal
Archenemy Legal
Planechase Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Unformat Legal
Pauper Legal
Commander / EDH Legal

Printings View all

Set Rarity
From the Vault: Annihilation (V14) Mythic Rare
Masters Edition III (ME3) Rare
Portal Three Kingdoms (PTK) Rare

Combos Browse all

Rolling Earthquake

Sorcery

Rolling Earthquake deals X damage to each creature without horsemanship and each player.

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Rolling Earthquake Discussion

Liquidbeaver on Ib Halfheart, Goblin Sac-tician [PRIMER]

1 week ago

Testing Throne of the God-Pharaoh and Rolling Earthquake in place of Ashnod's Altar and Goblin Assassin.

I've always been curious about Throne, and have never seen someone play it in person. I need just a little more player damage in the deck, and hitting all opponents is definitely nice, and the damage being dealt at the end of my turn really lowers the number of answers people can have to it. I am replacing Ashnod's mostly because I found myself not casting it a lot, where I will cast Phyrexian Altar every single time I get it. I guess the deck is just becoming more consistent, and I'm not needing to ramp into anything big anymore.

I just recently learned that Rolling Earthquake was actually reprinted in From The Vault: Annihilation and isn't only a $65 card from Master Editions III or P3K. It is going to replace Goblin Assassin for the time being. Assassin might be my favorite goblin in the whole deck, but the amount of hate he draws is just too much. He is insanely powerful, but people will target me for the rest of the game for making them roll and then sac one of their good creatures, where if I did the same thing as a sorcery or did player damage instead the response would be a lot more muted. If I can find a different underperforming card I might put Goblin Assassin back, but maybe only for FNM and not my regularly playgroup.

As always, if you have any suggestion, no matter how weird, speak up! This whole deck was built on stuff that wasn't supposed to work.

Ziembski on Mizzix Izzet Burn

3 weeks ago

IF You really want to make Burn viable i9n EDH, there are two options.

First is going into Storm, but I don't really like it, and I won't really be able to help you here.

Other option is goin for big X spells. This is what I like and what I know well. Banefire, Devil's Play, Fault Line, Titan's Revenge, Rolling Earthquake. But hey, You need mana for that. You already have Mizzix of the Izmagnus that lower their costs. Another must have is Mana Geyser and Mana Seism imo. Both gives You so much quick mana in mid-late game that it lets you to burn everyone. Another cards are all kinds of copy spells like Fork, Reverberate and Reiterate. Double burn? Nice. Now damage doublers which are Fire Servant, Furnace of Rath and Dictate of the Twin Gods.

There are more viable cards to write down, it will be simpler for you to check my Ignite your Planeswalker spark.

Gates88 on [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

1 month ago

sonnet666 I appreciate your response. I'll start off by saying that mentioning the obvious tier 1s (Thrasios, Zur, Tazri) was really just for completeness' sake. In hindsight, it was just a waste of time to mention them and I regret bringing it up.

You're also completely right about Mairsil, I just straight-up didn't do any research on the way that deck was going at all. The Mirror-Mad Phantasm line is great in a Doomsday shell and it's the main draw for it. The Razaketh line is a little bit more questionable since it requires creatures in play and Grixis has few creatures it actually wants to run and it can only be uses once a turn, but turning your commander into Diabolic Intent isn't bad by any means. I still think that Kess and Jeleva are clearly superior Grixis commanders though since they can have 99 cards that are gas and not dilute their deck at all. It's similar to Teferi vs Arcum Dagsson. Teferi runs a couple of bad cards or cards that aren't good for reasons other than The Chain Veil combo (Thran Dynamo, Gilded Lotus, and The Chain Veil itself would be useless without the rules interaction that allows for the combo), but Arcum runs a lot more bad cards because it needs to have artifact creatures to sacrifice and most artifact creatures suck. There's less of a difference between Kess/Jeleva and Mairsil than there is between Teferi and Arcum Dagsson in terms of number of different cards in each deck, but the principle is that Mairsil requires more build-around cards than the other Grixis generals and it hurts him overall. Regardless, I apologize for my ignorance and I think that tier 2 can be a valid placement for now.

I forgot that Razaketh was your pet deck. I won't bother arguing with you about it then.

I disagree about Karador. It's true that he reduces his own cost, but only if creatures are in the graveyard, which there will probably be few unless someone has wiped or you have Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman. In the latter case, you probably won't need Karador since you'll be able to tutor up Boonweaver Giant and a sac outlet (or whatever you're comboing with) relatively quickly anyway. It's true that he casts creatures from your graveyard, but only one per turn, so saying he effectively makes your graveyard your hand is a huge overexaggeration. Being able to cast creatures from the yard is also only useful if you have creatures in the yard, which is not too difficult to achieve but not always a common gamestate. Compare this to Tymna, who generates value at every stage of the game as long as you have creatures, and he looks much less favorable. The Abzan Boonweaver strategy has never really relied on the commander for anything but value, so the fact that Tymna can create more value more quickly than Karador speaks to her advantages and his weaknesses. If you won't put him in tier 3, consider at least moving him down to tier 2.5.

Everything I said about Teferi was in jest. In fact, I believe I even said later in my post that I was just joking around when I talked trash about Teferi. I don't post a lot on tappedout anymore so I don't blame people for not knowing, but I am a Teferi main and although I don't consider myself an expert, I know the deck pretty well. The Blood Pod matchup is probably Teferi's worst matchup (it's even worse than Ruric Thar, which is saying a lot), but it's not enough to keep him out of the top tiers.

Your suggestions for additions to Teferi are understandable but misguided. The primary reason that Paradox Engine and Dramatic Scepter aren't in Teferi is partially because the deck already has two and a half alternate win conditions - Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith is one, Power Artifact+Monolith is two, and Teferi+Stasis is almost a win condition - and doesn't need to dilute itself by running any more. All the cards I just mentioned are also good on their own - Monoliths for obvious reasons, Rings of Brighthearth for its ability to copy Teferi or Tezzeret's abilities, and Power Artifact for generating more mana while comboing with The Chain Veil. Neither Dramatic Reversal nor Isochron Scepter have utility on their own. Imprinting a Counterspell or a bounce spell on Isochron Scepter is a fine strategy in 1v1 (and I used to play Scepter Chant back in Mirrodin-era Extended, so I know how it feels), but it ultimately isn't good enough in the midgame to be worth running. Dramatic Reversal is effectively just a ritual and has very little utility outside of the combo. We already have access to a lot of good rituals, like Teferi for example, and we don't need another one that badly. Paradox Engine is too reliant on cards that are already in hand and costs 5 mana. Why would you tutor for a situationally relevant card that costs more to cast than The Chain Veil and is not a guaranteed combo? Furthermore, running these additional win conditions would require multiple cuts to either the manabase, card draw spells, counterspells, or bounce spells, which would weaken the deck in some other aspect. It's just not worth it to run these cards.

And just because Manifold Insights isn't as good as Lim-Dul's Vault doesn't mean it's trash. Being able to see 10 cards deep and getting 3 nonlands is a big deal, even if it's the three worst cards in that set. The fail state of Manifold Insights is either getting your 3 worst mana rocks or your 2 worst mana rocks and a counterspell that's not relevant (ex. Flusterstorm at a table full of creature-heavy decks). That's not great, but it's still 3 cards that will likely not be dead. The only major drawback to the card is its sorcery speed, which is unfortunate but ultimately not a dealbreaker. And obviously the card is unplayable with fewer than 3 opponents, but ideally that shouldn't happen.

Finally, do not under any circumstance go with a different decklist than what you have posted. Even though it does not match my personal list and I don't agree with every card choice in it (cough Expedition Map cough), the comprehensiveness of the primer section is encyclopedic, which makes it an excellent resource. It talks about primary combo lines, alternate lines, matchups, single card choices, and even budget alternatives. If you are already vaguely familiar with competitive EDH, you could become a somewhat competent Teferi player just by reading that primer and goldfishing a bit. Something drastic would need to happen in order for that primer to become irrelevant, on the scale of a major banning or maybe a change to the rules interaction between Teferi and The Chain Veil.

As far as Yidris goes, Jim has talked a lot on the discord about his deck and the gist of it is that Yidris is plan B. Plan A is jamming a turn 3 Ad Nauseam, which he aims to do as often as possible. That should give you an idea of how important Yidris actually is to the deck. His current list also still runs Mass Hysteria, so Concordant Crossroads could be a possible addition to improve it. I doubt Need for Speed would work well though, it overlaps with Rain of Filth too much and you'd rather sac your lands for mana than give your dorks haste in most circumstances.

I would argue that The Gitrog Monster can fight through counterspells more easily than Sidisi, Undead Vizier can because of cards like City of Solitude and Autumn's Veil, but you're right in that both decks are linear and somewhat fragile. Gitrog makes up for this by being able to clean up at really weird times, like their own cleanup step.

I think Tier 3 is solid for Atraxa. She has pubstomp written all over her, so it makes sense to put her in the pubstomp tier.

When I said that Dimir was a limited color identity, I meant in terms of what it can answer and how well it can answer it, specifically in regards to artifacts and enchantments. Black can't really interact with artifacts or enchantments at all, and blue only has bounce spells or counterspells. Hurkyl's Recall and other bounce spells are only temporary, and unless you can win the turn after a bounce through countermagic for sure, you will still be in danger of the problem card resolving the following turn again. Swan Song and other counterspells are reactive, which a combo deck really doesn't want to be. Compare this to Grixis, which has access to Vandalblast and By Force, or Esper, which has access to Disenchant and Detention Sphere (in Zur), or Sultai, which has access to every good card in the format, and Dimir looks worse by comparison.Even the creature removal isn't as diverse when it comes to wipes. Dimir only has Toxic Deluge while Esper has Supreme Verdict and Grixis has Rolling Earthquake and Fire Covenant. That's really the only weakness of the color identity, but it's not a trivial weakness and it does make Dimir combo worse than Esper/Grixis/Sultai/4 color combo.

As for your question on Baral, whether High Tide isn't strong or Baral is just bad, the answer is kind of both. Baral is a commander who gets outclassed by Jace in almost every way, and although he isn't weak by any means, Jace isn't outrageously strong to begin with.Jace can loot more consistently, can get more value in the midgame when cards have been binned, and can enable double Tide turns. Baral's cost reduction is nice, but that's about the only advantage he has over Jace. Blood Pod is also pretty brutal against Baral since all the win conditions either require Islands (making it weak to Choke) or artifacts (making it weak to Null Rod and Stony Silence).

Gates88 on [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

1 month ago

I was going to talk about something else, but since we're briefly talking about tier placement, I'll provide some quick thoughts before getting to the important stuff:

General Tazri - Fast, consistent, resilient - everything you'd want in a combo deck. Obviously tier 1.

Jeleva vs Kess - At first I thought that Kess was better by leaps and bounds since her ability is consistently stronger than Jeleva's in a vacuum. However, Magic is not played in a vacuum, and through discussion Jeleva's other strengths have been made manifest. For now we should keep them roughly equal until a really stand-out list for either one (most likely Kess since Jelva's been around for years now and is mostly solved) emerges to push one over the other.

Prossh, Skyraider of Kher - I tend to agree with lilbrudder and others who have said he should be moved down. He just can't interact as well as Sidisi or Tazri, Tazri has more tutors, and Sidisi has better backup lines. That said, moving him below tier 1.5 would be denying his raw strength, speed, and resiliency. He has access to the best 3-color manabase in the game and Food Chain augments it. This idea that he has limited access to interaction when every Prossh deck ever has run REB, Pyroblast, City of Solitude, Abrupt Decay, Nature's Claim, Vexing Shusher, Autumn's Veil, etc. is a gross overstatement. Prossh isn't the king of Food Chain anymore, but that doesn't mean he's not still a big threat.

Teferi, Temporal Archmage - Obviously complete garbage. 6 mana for a commander? How horrible. It also completely folds to Blood Pod and needs to run horrible cards like Expedition Map and Silent Arbiter to contend. It's a deck that really is limited by its color identity. It wants white for Humility, Enlightened Tutor, Rest In Peace, Supreme Verdict, etc.; it wants red for Goblin Welder, board wipes, wheel effects, etc.; it wants green for additional ramp and card draw; and it wants black for...well, anything really, but it can't run any of these colors and so you're stuck with a mediocre "adaptive combo" (whatever that means) deck. You'd have to be some kind of moron to play Teferi these days.

Thrasios, Triton Hero - Best infinite mana outlet in the game and Partner makes him very flexible. Obvious tier 1, possibly the best commander legal today. No other commander pushes other decks out of the meta like Thrasios does.

Tymna the Weaver - 6 months ago I would have been fully against placing Tymna anywhere above tier 3. I would have ranted and raved about how Thrasios carried her just like he carries all the other partners, and that getting a free Ambition's Cost every turn is a scenario that is too unlikely to actually happen. However, the success of Blood Pod has proven me wrong. Aside from Zur, she's easily the best WBx commander in the game for her ability to create value from very little and she absolutely deserves to be tier 1.

Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - If there is a consistent Yidris deck that's better than Thras+Smash, I haven't seen it. His effect and color identity are still strong enough to keep him out of tier 2, but not strong enough to keep him at the very top. He's a lot like Breya - fundamentally a UBx storm deck with a few build-around cards that is just barely outclassed by Zur, Jeleva, and now Kess.

Zur the Enchanter - As long as Necropotence is legal, Zur will be tier 1. Even if Necropotence gets banned, Zur would probably still be the best WUB general since tutoring for removal is more valuable than doing Sharuum loops or gaining 2 life a turn.

Animar, Soul of Elements - I feel like the reason why people are relatively harsh on Animar is because the deck hasn't really changed in many meaningful ways since Ancestral Statue was printed. They got Walking Ballista and Vizier of the Menagerie, but that's about it. The lack of black is a bit of an issue, but when the deck is mostly creatures your green tutors are all you really need. The disruption suite is small and sometimes greedy (if you count Ulamog), but for a combo deck you can only run so much disruption before it starts to encroach on ramp, card draw, and tutors. Animar has actually gotten stronger with the additional tools he's gotten over time, but the rest of the metagame has changed more drastically so he looks weaker by comparison. I think this evens him out relatively speaking and thus he should stay where he is.

Brago, King Eternal - Brago is kind of similar to Animar in that he gained new tools in Recruiter of the Guard and Sanctum Prelate (and Oath of Jace to a lesser extent) but the rest of the meta has evolved around him in such a way that he is no longer a strong choice for a commander. Both decks are also heavily reliant on their commanders and run combo finishes in colors that don't have access to the best tutors. The difference between the two is that although both are reliant on their commanders, Animar has access to better ramp, comes down earlier, and has protection from two common removal colors. Animar also has a big advantage in speed - a fast combo from Animar can catch players off-guard wheras fast leads from Brago don't really happen. Brago also has a severe case of summoning sickness while Animar doesn't. A better comparison would be Tymna, who is also the lead of a hatebear-focused deck, but can generate value the turn she hits the board as long as you have an attacker. Speaking of Blood Pod, Brago is also quite weak to Stony Silence and Null Rod because of his extreme reliance on mana rocks, and a fast reanimated Elesh Norn from an Abzan or Blood Pod deck can basically ruin his entire gameplan. What you end up with is a build-around stax deck that is weak to other stax decks, which doesn't make for a particularly strong deck. Tier 2 is a fine home for him.

Grand Arbiter Augustin IV - I could talk about most of the same stuff I mentioned in Brago for why GAAIV isn't viable because most of it still applies. The weakness to Null Rod, the lack of tutoring limiting the win conditions, etc. it's all true. The big difference is that while Brago relies too heavily on its commander, GAAIV is kind of incendental to his own deck. On the one hand, this is a sort of weird advantage that allows GAAIV to run more creature hate than normal, with most lists typically running WoG, Supreme Verdict, Humility, Cursed Totem, and Torpor Orb at the very minimum. On the other hand, this also ends up being a sort of disadvantage since GAAIV will never really be anything more than a mana rock. If GAAIV gets killed at any point during the game, he'll probably never be cast again. This isn't really what you want out of a stax commander. I don't want to make a blanket statement and say that UW Stax isn't a competitive strategy anymore since they have really strong hate pieces like Humility, RiP, Aura of Silence, Back to Basics, etc., but it's hard not to look at Brago and GAAIV and not see how they're outclassed by Derevi. Tier 2 is a fine place, and that's almost entirely based on his color identity.

Karador, Ghost Chieftain - He's just outclassed by Tymna in every way, whether your pairing her with Thrasios or Tana. Even Tymna+Reyhan/Sidar Kondo/other BG partner would probably be better I could honestly see him dropping all the way down to tier 3, but that's probably too extreme.

Razaketh, the Foulblooded - I have been saying ever since this card was spoiled that if it does end up being good, it'll be because it's strong in the 99 and not on its strength as a commander. 8 mana and multiple creatures in play is just too much to ask for when other decks could be jamming Ad Nauseam 2 turns earlier. He's still better than most pubstomp decks, so tier 2.5 seems like a good place to have him. An optimized Razaketh deck would probably try to jam Ad Nauseam as soon as possible and only use Raz as a backup line. The problem with that is that there's already a very strong mono-black Ad Nauseam deck. It's very fast and very consistent and fairly resilient despite the color identity restrictions. It's headed by a certain commander who you may have heard of. She's pretty strong in her own right and could possibly even function reasonably well without Ad Nauseam. Her name, of course, is Gallowbraid.

Scion of the Ur-Dragon - In a post-partner, post-Ballista world, Hermit Druid decks no longer need 5 colors to have access to an infinite mana outlet and good tutors. Tier 2 seems like a reasonable home, but I could see him going lower.

Sidisi Brood Tyrant, The Gitrog Monster - These are the two big ones I could see moving up to tier 1. Their speed and consistency is excellent, they run plenty of interaction, and they've shown very good results over the past year. I don't think they're quite there yet, but we should definitely keep an eye out on them.

Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Atraxa is awful. I know I said the same thing about Teferi earlier, but back there I was just joking around. I really mean it this time, Atraxa is horrible. She has been getting way too many free passes just because of her color identity, and in that color identity she's outclassed by Thrasios+Tymna. Oh wow, Atraxa gets one more card, big whoop. If any one of her colors were removed, everyone would easily dump her in tier 4 without a second thought, and the fact that people still haven't done so after almost a year is astounding. Tier 3 is more than she deserves, but it's probably where she belongs.

Azami, Lady of Scrolls - This is another commander to watch since she's peen posting good results lately. Don't think she should move up just yet though.

Mairsil, the Pretender - Tier 2 is way too generous. Are people forgetting about the "once per turn" clause? That severely hampers what he can do, to the point where you'd have to jump through a ton of hoops to make a combo with him actually work. You could just put him at the head of Grixis storm, but he's outclassed by Jeleva and Kess there.

Oona vs Dralnu - Personally, I think they're similar in terms of power level, with Oona only being just barely better. Both of them are in a somewhat limited color identity and both of them are directly outlclassed by other commanders. Oona is outclassed by Thrasios who only needs 2 colored mana to cast and combo off while Oona needs 6. Dralnu is now explicitly outclassed by Kess and before that was outclassed by JVP despite the color identity difference. So in reality, both are pretty bad. However, it's easier to make infinite mana than to play a 5 drop and protect him from Fire Covenant or Rolling Earthquake. So their current placement is probably the right place to put them. Nobody plays Blasphemous Act in CEDH btw.

Baral, Chief of Compliance - After more thinking, I think we can safely move Baral down to tier 3. For a while he was one of the top 5 High Tide commanders, but with Kess that's no longer the case. Additionally, he's pretty all-in on that strategy and accruing value over time with his passive ability is a lot harder to do in multiplayer.

Now that we got all that boring stuff nobody cares about out of the way, let's talk about the important issues: The Johnny, Combo Player decklist. As you know, I made a list about a month ago with Johnny as the commander entitled Johnny Magic. The win condition was to get infinite colorless mana, play Johnny, search up Stroke of Genius and Lotus Petal, deck the opponent, Timetwister, and repeat. It's a tried and true strategy that has been passed down the mono-blue family for generations.It also ran just about every good blue card in the format as well as some potential for Paradox Engine lines using things like Training Grounds and Heartstone to reduce Johnny's tutoring cost and chain rocks together to find combo pieces, similar to an Arcum deck. I also didn't see many other Johnny lists on Tappedout that weren't Un-legal decks or other gimmick decks. I was very surprised, then, when I saw that when this list was last updated that another Johnny player beat me to the punch. I try to keep an open mind about these things, so I looked into his list and found some interesting design decisions. I could go into detail into all the differences, but the gist of it is that the posted list is just generally built around having as many combos as possible, even bad or clunky ones, rather than actually making a good deck. It even includes Donate+Illusions of Grandeur, which is not a lethal combo in a 40 life format. The list is not completely without merit and there are good inclusions in it. Strip Mine is a good tech choice, Palinchron and Lab Maniac are great inclusions that should probably be in my list, Brain Freeze is a good alternate win condition with infinite storm even if Aetherflux Reservoir is better, and Evacuation is good creature hate. Otherwise, there are a lot of weird decisions in the deck. The most glaring ones I see are in the draw engine package. The deck lacks mono-blue card draw staples like Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Mystic Remora, Impulse, JVP, Thirst for Knowledge, Timetwister, Memory Jar, Time Spiral, and Dig Through Time. The deck also lacks a tutoring package, omitting Mystical Tutor, Transmute Artifact, Muddle the Micture, Fabricate, Intuition, and Tezzeret the Seeker, let alone Reshape and Whir of Invention. It also lacks interaction in general, with no Chain of Vapor, Dispel, Flusterstorm, Mental Misstep, Repeal, Spell Pierce, Swan Song, Cyclonic Rift, Into the Roil, Mana Drain, or Negate. Instead, the deck jams as many infinite combos as possible in with no regard to how clunky they are, greedy draw spells, and board wipes, and tries to compensate by running redundant parts and about 6 more lands than necessary. It honestly seems less like an optimized list and more like a paper list, which is not what the purpose of providing a sample decklist on here is for. My only other guess besides that is that the deck creator plans to play a "value Johnny" and use him as the sole tutor for the deck to grab whatever pieces of various combos are missing from the opening hand. I believe it is much more effective to instead build a shell around 3 or 4 infinite mana combos that hopefully have multiple redundant pieces and use Johnny as an infinite mana sink to grab Stroke (and the rest of your deck). Also, the guy's running Mycosynth Lattice with no March of the Machines? Come on, man.

I don't believe that my list for Johnny is an optimized list, and considering how few people actually care there may never be an optimized list. However, I strongly hope that you take my list into further consideration instead of the list that is currently there.

buildingadeck on sonnet666

1 month ago

So, as I noted, I'm not responding on that List anymore because people do not know how to discuss things civilly. However, Dralnu belongs in Tier 2 because he's put up results. I have about a 35% win rate with him over the course of 50+ games between both my budget and non-budget versions. His "glaring" weakness is that he's bad against Rolling Earthquake or Fire Covenant, sweepers in one of the worst colors in edh. I think I've had to sac permanents to Dralnu once or twice the whole time I've played him. As far as casting him and needing a turn cycle, he's there as a grind engine. Casting Dralnu means your first attempt failed or that you need more gas.

sonnet666 on [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier

1 month ago

Jesus... You all collectively wrote an essay since last night.

Let me try to clear up a few points in no particular order:

merrowMania, No we're not going to make any changes without taking time and reaching a consensus. I don't think we're going to start moving anyone until after the C17 commanders are in the system and we hash out their initial rankings.


buildingadeck, Oh snap, you caught us. The tiers are arbitrary. The community agrees. Delete list. Abort, abort. Time to pack it up. Nothing to see here folks. Y'all head on home now.


As far as the Jeleva vs. Kess discussion goes, regardless of whether you think Jeleva was a placeholder or not, I think it's best that we set a definition of what a placeholder commander actually IS, so there'll be less confusion on the topic:

Placeholder Commander:

noun - A commander chosen to be representative of a particular archetype of maindeck cards, when said archetype has been shown to have merit in cEDH AND there are no printed commanders that directly play into the archetype's gameplan available. In such a situation, the commander in the requisite color identity that offers the MOST support for the archetype is chosen to represent it a Placeholder, as long as that commander does not already have a more viable cEDH archetype that suits it best.

We actually have another Placeholder commander on the list currently, Savra, Queen of the Golgari is standing in as representative for Thrumming Stone / Shadowborn Apostle Storm in Tier 3.

In terms Jeleva and Grixis Storm, the question moving forward would be whether her abilities directly play into the archetype and would be detrimental to lose, or whether they are simply unrelated but useful support that people playing Grixis Storm have gotten used to and don't want to give up.

Obviously, arguments can be made for either, and we don't have to decide this right away.

One last point, reversemermaid, you said a few times that Kess was slower than Jeleva, and I'm not quite sure where you're getting that from. My understanding of Kess was that you could begin to storm off without playing her, then if you start to run low on gas, you could pay 3 for her just to recast something you need to keep going. Wouldn't that be faster than Jeleva since you don't have to invest in her the turn before?


Ohthenoises, Since no one answered you: Yes, flickering Kess does let you flashback another spell. Her ability is phrased just like Karador's, and this is in his rulings.

(Also, it's interesting to note that Kess's ability isn't quite the same as Flashback. Kess's ability will only exile the card if it would be put back in your graveyard this turn, while flashbacked spells are exiled if they would leave the stack at all. This means you could Buyback a spell cast from your graveyard with Kess, and it would still return to your hand.)


Lilbrudder, I've been meaning to move up Tymna and add a Blood Pod list when I add my next round of decklists to the description. I just have a bit of a backlog of good decks that could be put up right now.

As for the other commanders, can you be more specific about where you think they should be move to? Just saying they're not in the right tier isn't that helpful. Also, some data to back up the changes would be nice.


Erastaroth_The_Duchess_of_Hell, I was updating my Ezuri list to include Flash-Hulk last night. I've checked out your list, and I still think my HD plan is a better back-up combo than the Aluren/Cloudstone/Paradox plan you've got on yours, but this is a lot to talk about, so let me make a comment on your deck and we can talk about Ezuri in more depth there.


buildingadeck, I'm highly against moving Dralnu up. Let me explain why, so people will stop bringing him up constantly:

Dralnu helms a storm/paradox/flashback/doomsday list that can utilize his ability to play every spell in the deck twice. These are all good qualities for a cEDH commander, and he's certainly better than the Tier 4 placement we had him in before. However, I believe there needs to be consideration in this list for ranking commanders lower based on any critical weaknesses they may have. Dralnu has a pretty obvious and apparent weakness. I think we can all agree on that.

Whenever I bring up Dralnu's obvious weakness, people usually come back with one of two answers.

The first is that you'll typically only play Dralnu when you're ready to combo out. This would be fine, except that the only available haste granter worth running in your colors is Lightning Greaves, and this deck needs to look for too many combo pieces for you to be able to rely on seeing that every game. That means that, like Jeleva, even if you only play Dralnu when you're "ready to win," he still has to sit on the board for a whole turn before doing anything useful. Now, with something like Jeleva this is no big deal, the worst thing that happens is someone removes her and you don't get your free spell, but with Dralnu a single Blasphemous Act, Rolling Earthquake, or Subterranean Tremors is going to brick your entire boardstate, all three of which see play in cEDH. MAJOR WEAKNESS.

The other answer people usually come back with is that you can win just fine without ever playing Dralnu, which is all fine and good, but isn't really a good argument for why he should be moved up in tiers, as there are other Blue/Black commanders that could be helming the same list.

In light of Dralnu's potential and how popular he seems to be, I could see him being moved to Tier 2.5, but that's the absolute highest I think he should go, keeping his drawbacks considered.


n0bunga, I think Ramos is going to end up being placed high as well, but people saying he shouldn't start so high have a valid point. We agreed back when Leovold came out that we shouldn't start commanders in Tier 1 as a matter of precedent. Kess is a bit of an exception, since it's a non-commander centric deck that is pretty much built and tested already, but Ramos is still not figured out and has very little data. Starting him in Tier 2 wouldn't hurt anything and would give people time to figure out how best to build him.

zelian12 on Austin's Neheb

1 month ago

Earthquake < Rolling Earthquake

This isnt exactly my style of deck, but you probably need more card draw. I like mind stone but it would be better if you could use neheb mana for it. Maybe run a bunch of wheel effects instead

Byuante on Mono red Neheb Burn

1 month ago

Blood Moon??

Gauntlet of Might Your mana base is weak & if you've got the money

Furnace of Rath Quadruple damage with Dictate of the Twin Gods in play

Manabarbs Great against blue control, and good with Neheb

Rolling Earthquake Hits everything except horsemanship

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