Creature — Human Artificer
Lieutenant — At the beginning of combat on your turn, if you control your commander, create a 1/1 colourless Thopter artifact creature token with flying. That token gains haste until end of turn.
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Loyal Apprentice Discussion
1 week ago
1 month ago
Since I feel like you're going Vorthos with this deck, I'd recommend focussing on a Cruel Control theme using the Nicol Bolas instead. Currently I feel as though your deck could be a lot more focussed.
Add: Counterspells, draw and hard boardwipes such as Crux of Fate.
2 months ago
Beln Filth looks good i will look to see what i can swap out with it to get in in there as far as the Loyal (insert) cards go the Loyal Subordinateis the best as it drains the board, the Loyal Apprentice is a 2 drop that when my commander is out generates creatures that have flying which is very important as i very few ways to interact with flyers outside of this and my next point which is Ishkanah, Grafwidowfor 5 mana i get 4 creatures with reach (up to 7 if Doubling Season is out and i can then drain opponents for number of spiders i have if i have nothing to use mana on it allows for me to still do something even if i top deck something that doesnt help me
and Primeval Titan is banned in commander so i cant run that so that is why i run those i will most likely be swapping the loyal that i dont use i am thinking about taking out Loyal Guardian For Filth
do you have any thoughts on tuning the mana base any? I should be getting my Tectonic Edge soon so ill update this once that is here as well
2 months ago
I think you need an Eternal Scourge for this deck.
AH HA! I finally see figured out what this deck is really needing. More punch.
Specifically, this deck should be maximizing the 'creature enters the battlefield' effects.
You are creature one or more token copies of a creature.
Those creatures should not just sit there looking at you like an idiot. Make those token work.
I know that the token come into play tapped and attacking, but by using the ETB triggers those tokens will be doing double duty.
Another thing I noticed while looking at what other people are doing with this deck is the use of +1/+1 counters to power things.
Not sure if that is a direction this deck need to go, so I'm not going to use that too much.
With that new idea in mind, lets look at some swaps.
OUT: Budoka Gardener, Charnelhoard Wurm, Emissary of Grudges, Indulgent Tormentor, Rubblehulk, Scute Mob, Scuttling Doom Engine, Seedborn Muse, Zendikar Incarnate
Not sure about: Loyal Apprentice, Loyal Guardian, Loyal Subordinate, Rampaging Baloths
IN, with no particualr order:
(I'm going to list more cards than we take out so that you have some options to consider.)
Wood Elves, note that the Forest does not have to be a basic Forest. We can fecth a dual or shock land.
Eternal Witness, to get back any other card.
Greenwarden of Murasa, another option for card recursion.
Solemn Simulacrum, land fetch and card draw ine one.
Broodmate Dragon, because dragons.
Garna, the Bloodflame, for more graveyard recursion.
Fleshbag Marauder and/or, Merciless Executioner to help control the board. We can use the sac
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, fattie with life draining ability.
Mindslicer, so that we can make people's lives suck.
Pilgrim's Eye, land search and flying chump blocker. the poor man's Solemn Simulacrum
Hoarding Dragon, because it never hurts to get useful artifacts.
Netherborn Phalanx, this one has always been good to me in group games. Really punishes the token player.
Puppeteer Clique, so that we can eat and exile opponenet's creatures.
Dire Fleet Daredevil, why not cast other people's spells?
Balustrade Spy, screw your deck.
Avalanche Riders, screw your land.
Sadistic Hypnotist, screw your hand.
Entomber Exarch, give us some nice options. It is a bit weak, but useful and cheap.
Bogardan Hellkite, becuase damage is almost always good. But I'm not sure about the mana cost on this one.
Molten Primordial, let's use our sacrifice outlets on other peoples stuff.
Viscera Seer, so that we can filter the top deck when we sacrifice creatures.
Hornet Queen, tokens making tokens, now with deathtouch.
Feldon of the Third Path, create tokens of creatures that don't get exiled.
Kresh the Bloodbraided or Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper as alternate commanders and good creatures.
Not creatues but need to be in the deck:
Warstorm Surge, let's turn each token into direct damage in addition to it's ETB.
Path of Discovery, why not explore the deck?
Evolutionary Leap, I'm not sure about this one, I like the ability to fetch more creatues from the deck, but we may need more dicard outlets to really make this work for use.
Goblin Bombardment, cheap to cast, multiple uses, may help finish off the last opponent.
So, let me know what you think.
Great. Thanks. Now after helping you with this deck, I'm going to have to finish my jund deck. I'll see if I can get my list up in a couple of days.
2 months ago
Hello ^^ I haven't put my version in tappedout yet, but I'll do it as soon as I can! The changes I tried over your version are minimal for now. I'll list them one by one:
1) in Loyal Apprentice, out Young Pyromancer. The few times I've played pyromancer I haven't been impressed at all, while the apprentice have been an overperformer. Maybe it's a matter of playstyle, but I've come to appreciate haste a lot. I was also considering taking out Thorn of Amethyst so it's probably worth to have pyromancer instead, as cheap token producers are very good in this deck, although I'm still not quite sure if pyromancer scales as well as apprentice as the game goes on; apprentice topthers having haste and flying is huge to push in grenzo triggers.
2) Took off Moggcatcher for Glorybringer. As an standard red player I've been consistently impressed with the dragon. The way I see it, it's a heavy hitter, able to push in damage and get grenzo triggers on late game fast, that sometimes kills stuff. I haven't drawn it yet so I'm gonna consider this a flexible slot, and try some other alternatives over time. Stolen Strategy feels also like a good replacement for moggcatcher, as both are grindy cards.
3) took off Sandstone Oracle for Chandra, Flamecaller. I see why the oracle is here: helps catching up, can't be easily casted with our colorless fast mana, has a nice flying body, and can be quite grindy with Daretti, Scrap Savant or Goblin Welder. However, in my experience it rarely does enough if you are not in a dedicated Daretti deck. 7 mana is a lot and unless you have some player going crazy on the table, the draw etb is not that good if you can't consistently recurr it. The fact that it dies to artifact removal is huge too. Put in Chandra instead cause is 1 mana less, the 0 ability is a very consistent way to get you cards, the tokens she produces have haste and help with grenzo triggers (they are also great sac fodder, and as Spawning Pit has been super good the few times I've play it, I'm super happy to have more psinergy with it), they close games very quickly too. Chandra also is a board wipe in a pinch and very good to have in play when you Jokulhaups. I still haven't got to draw an play the card but as the deck generates lotta tokens to defend her, I feel it's gonna be decent, what do you think?
3) Alternatives to Mishra's Workshop. Put in Temple of the False God cause it felt similar, but it leds to some feel bad moments so I'm considering taking it off. Crystal Vein is always a mana source that can give you a burst when needed, and Scavenger Grounds doesn't ramp you but it's such and easy inclusion to hate on graveyards, something the deck lacks.
General considerations! Man I miss Chaos Warp so much in this deck. It's an answer to Ghostly Prison effects that are very bad for us, walkers that bolt can't hit, indestructible eldrazis, stuff that our damage base removal can't kill... I feel those represent the three things this decks is weaker against: ramp to big creatures strategies, dedicated token strategies (with green) and pillow fort. The last feels less problematic cause generally pillow forts are annoying to everyone on the table so other players are gonna also throw removal at them. But I feel we are kinda hopeless against lotta big dudes cause almost none of our removal can si anything about them and our creatures are to small to trade. Token strategies present a wall of chunk blockers that's hard to attack into, that eventually get very big and ran over you quite easily.
I'm putting cards like glorybringer or chandra in the deck to be able to disrupt those strategies and kill them as quickly as possible. I just wanna as much cards that can act as removal as I can get Xd so I have Mizzium Mortars, Subterranean Tremors and Umezawa's Jitte in my radar. The freaking jitte is in my binder looking at my with puppy eyes asking me to play it, such a great card, does so much! Bolt is the card I'd maybe take off for any of those but I'm still not sure at all. And sorry for the wall of text. I love the deck and I'm putting a lot os thought and work into it :P Tell me what you think. Did you consider any of these cards?
2 months ago
Pinkie_Satanas: Hey, thanks! It's pretty sweet to find out that my list has inspired you to create one of your own. I still play this deck every once in a while but I've not had much time to update it. I think many of your suggestions make a lot of sense. As a general rule of thumb, anything that creates tokens is something we should always consider adding to this deck because tokens mean extra grenzo triggers. Loyal Apprentice is definitely a good suggestion (I think there's another token generator goblin now, too) and I'd play it in addition to Young Pyromancer--might cut Moggcatcher instead of pyro tho. I also like Stolen Strategy as another way of keeping up with our opponents in grindy games but think we should play it in addition to Outpost Siege--would probably cut Thorn of Amethyst, which I honestly don't think belongs to this deck (I tried a tax theme once but it just doesn't work as well as I wanted).
I'm not sure about Glorybringer. I don't think the haste thing matters a whole lot and the 4 dmg is not an ETB ability, so our opponents might kill it (path, swords, black removals) bfore we get a chance to deal 4 dmg to a creature. Also, you definitely do not want to play Geier Reach Sanitarium and valakut. Geier enables reanimate strategies and you cant do shit about it and with all the moon and land destruction spells, we'll rarely get to use valakut multiple times (it also has bad synergy with Extraplanar Lens). Other than that, I completely agree with your suggestions and as the other sets come out, feel free to chime in with new suggestions.
As I said in my last update, I don't have a lot of time to play mtg anymore, owing to my job responsibilities and family. So, if you really enjoy this deck, I can add a link in the description to your version of it (a more up-to-date version), as long as you keep the general principles. Best of luck testing your list! It's high variance but it's pretty fun when it gets out of control.
2 months ago
Hello ^^ I built this deck in paper with some proxis to play with my friends, and i'm very excited about it :D I cut mishra's workshop tho, cause i cannot realistically expect to get, and put Temple of the False God in its place instead, although i am also considering Crystal Vein there for ramp, or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and Geier Reach Sanitarium cause value. Besides that, i'm playing exactly the same decklist as you, and i'd love to read your thoughts on some cards i think might be good in the deck:
Glorybringer it's kind of a hasty evasive repetible flametongue kavu for 1 more mana. Haste and evasion is relevant to get to goad or exile some cards from opponents. I know costing extra mana is huge. What do you think?
Loyal Apprentice maybe this card flew under your radar cause it came out in august, but the few times i've played it seemed super good with low to the ground commanders. The fact that she pops out thopters with haste is huge, so you can get immediate value from her with grenzo in play. She and her thopters also have haste so it could help speed up the game, which could be good considering this deck has no haste enablers. I was considering put her in instead of Young Pyromancer cause i feel the psynergy with grenzo is better, although more volatile. Young pyromancer seems like adds more value on average, but with a lower cealing. Another card i considered to cut is Moggcatcher, as it's slow, but i'm still not sure if the loss of one tutor would damage the deck.
The last card i wanted to show you is Stolen Strategy, also a fairly recent one. I see this as a "catch-up" card on theme with the deck that helps to recover after a board wipe. Like Outpost Siege would do but on steroids. The problem i see is that this effect for 5 mana feels inefficient and the fact that doesn't let you play lands is kind of an issue.
That's all ^^ i'll be testing the deck and see how it goes. For now i had a bunch of 1vs1 games with and one multiplayer that was a blast, although my attackers only exiled lands with the grenzo triggers xd Thank you very much for putting so much effort in this list, explained it and showcasing it. I really wanted to have a good grenzo deck and i felt kind of helpless to build it.