|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2013 (C13)||Rare|
|Urza's Legacy (ULG)||Rare|
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No more than two creatures can attack you each combat.
|Have (6)||, _raeofsunlight , Forkbeard , shinbatsu , Pumpkinking913 ,|
|Want (8)||timmylordofhell , JumboJetJester , nan0man , eskittles , hutch10 , bfrie , Mortiferus_Rosa , ProphecyEcho|
15 hours ago
Thank you for your thoughts!
I've been tinkering with this list as I continue to test and play more EDH games. Here are further observations I've made and card options I've considered to replace those that have underperformed.
I've tried Blast Zone for several games now, and it's been difficult to use to say the least. The card tends to be slow because you have to invest mana to increase charge counters, then you have to tap the turn after to destroy whatever you need to. It's been difficult justifying tutoring for Blast Zone with Expedition Map, and I haven't found it productive to use the ability in any of my games. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but thus far I'd almost rather play a Wastes in its place.
I haven't missed Haunted Cloak at all. I probably wouldn't swap Tormod's Crypt , there are tons of games where it's dead but I consider it an important tool against too many other decks for it to be worth removing. Sometimes, it's the only reason why I won at all. It still activates Paradox Engine , helps with Inspiring Statuary , etc.
I find it difficult to justify Karn, the Great Creator considering that this deck doesn't have many ways of protecting the dude. I already assume that whenever I cast Karn Liberated or Ugin, the Ineffable (both of which are incredible btw) they're going to die immediately. Expensive removal spells essentially. Perhaps I'm narrow-minded though, if you have better experiences with him I'd love to hear them!
A few cards I've been trying lately are Unstable Obelisk , Crawlspace , and the Grafdigger's Cage mentioned earlier. I consider those to be the safer cards to test, though I've also considered more splashy effects in their place like Null Brooch , Ring of Three Wishes , and Planar Bridge .
Null Brooch is the craziest of them all I think. The ability interests me as one of the few ways to interact with spells/combos, and the theory is that the drawback of discarding your hand can be negated by the numerous draw options present (including the commander). Whether the tradeoff is worthwhile remains to be seen, I haven't tried it yet but I will. Ring and Bridge are just expensive and I'm dubious as to if they're really necessary. One benefit I can see to Planar Bridge is that it can serve as Ugin, the Spirit Dragon #2, which is a card I tend to look for in most of my games.
Finally, Stony Silence is so crippling lmao, I've lost to it so many times. It makes me wonder if there are tools that can be played to alleviate that, whether it be circumventing the ability through Inspiring Statuary , not involve activating abilities or removing it altogether (two of Ugin, the Ineffable 's abilities)
2 days ago
1 week ago
CNobre I have updated the list after the full modern horizons spoiler. For the cards that your suggesting:
Aven Mindcensor This card is so good. It is insane how much this single component card will shut down other decks before they get going. I can flash this in in response to fetchlands, tutors, and many different search effects that highly restrict my opponents ability to play their deck properly.
Suture Priest Is a two sided coin that prevents my opponents from attempting to go to wide and take over the board with creatures. It also prevents any infinite combos that use creatures moving back and forth on the battlefield. Forcing my opponent to find an answer to suture priest before they can try to go off. Right now I agree it is one of the weaker card options but it has stalled so many games that I can never find a better replacement.
Giver of Runes I think you are mistaken on this cards effect. If it was protection to any permanent this would be better than Mother of Runes but sadly it only gives your creatures protection. I can't use it to protect my auras/epuipment. In fact giving my creature protection from white causes any of my auras to fall off said creature instead. I don't want to many of these effects as they are counter productive as keeping my creatures alive is less of a early game strategy and keeping the board clear of threats is my main priority for the first half of the game.
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs This is a great budget card to cards like Ghostly Prison , Peacekeeper , Crawlspace and Koskun Falls . In my opinion the card does very little as I don't need to prevent my opponent from attacking if I just kill all the creatures before hand. I opted for mass removal and targeted removal over taxing my opponents because these kind of cards make people want to attack you after they've dealt with them. With removal I can use it as leverage to keep people from attacking me, but also I can use them to make allies. When someone gets to strong and another player offers a truce I can use my removal to help make alliances with other players.
Chandra's Ignition Now this also refers to all board wipes as you mentioned them collectively. But this particular card is so good I had to single it out. The way this card works is I can target my general and because the card has her deal the damage it turns into a card that wipes the board except for my general. If Im playing this card I either have very little else to lose on the return or I am in a position where I can't be stingy about losing my board and I can use my superior draw/top deck to establish boardstate before my opponent can recover. It has won me so many games as I always recover my board state faster through the Monarch token and cheap removal options that my opponents cant find answers to.
I am reaching my limit of characters for one post and will continue in the next one.
1 week ago
Defile is sweet, and will definitely be getting a slot in here. I'm still on the fence about Force of Despair - it seems strong, but it seems better in 1v1, where I'm not going down two cards to clear one player's creatures right before two more players get a chance to play. I'll test it, but not sure how good it will be.
Crawlspace is a fine card. I don't particularly like playing it because it's not my style (I prefer threats over restrictions), but it's certainly strong.
Ensnaring Bridge isn't as good. First, because it stops our opponents from attacking each other, and second because it relies on us not having cards in hand, which is not what we want. I'd rather have a grip of kill spells than a Bridge and an empty hand.
Umezawa's Charm , while flavorful, is still not powerful enough for the deck. Umezawa's Jitte is strong because of its reusability, and the way it can continue to stack counters when its modes aren't useful right away, allowing it to really build up a large effect. The charm is a one-off, that can't build up to get stronger, and doesn't do any of the things this deck wants very well. Even the Jitte isn't in the deck, because combat damage isn't reliable in the way I play, and the charm is just worse.
Hatred , on the other hand, is very strong. I don't run it because I prefer to pay a lot of life into card draw effects, so paying large chunkcs of life into hatred would be either dangerous or restrictive of the number of cards I can draw. That said, a different build that focused on being more aggressive could use it very well.
Mind Rake is underwhelming. I don't usually care about cards in my opponent's hands. Without a lot of other discard synergy, it's not worth running a one-off discard spell.
Crypt Rats kills itself, and kills our commander, faster than it can kill anything else. Unless I'm 1-shot killing someone, it's not worth it, and if I AM one-shot killing someone, my existing X-spells are better. If I wanted that effect, I'd play Pestilence or Pestilence Demon instead, since those can be more useful in short burst activations.
Forbidden Crypt is bad. I can already reuse most of the cards in my graveyard. Returning them to hand isn't actually gaining card advantage, especially since I have to exile them when I send them back to the yard (the same as if I had just cast them with Toshiro), and because I have to sacrifice the ability to draw cards to do it. If it were a "may" ability, it MIGHT be okay, but even then I'd probably not bother. Plus, Bojuka Bog and Nihil Spellbomb and other mass graveyard hate already targets my deck a lot - with that card in play, it makes me lose the game on the spot.
2 weeks ago
If I may interject regardless of those cards are in there you'll still be targeted due to commander. Sometimes it's best to hit fast with a few of those cards or have them for insurance. Secondly there are far worse stuff out in commander they'll be more concern about (Thanks Urza) The question is how you time using the cards. Don't get me wrong I understand your concern on just playing the role of observer which I like to do as well, however I'll be quick to shift to mass murdering psychopath if I see a opportunity to win in commander. Now with that said I suggest Force of Despair , Crypt Rats , Defile, Mind Rake , maybe Umezawa's Charm and Hatred to give someone a boost while they take out a ally for you. I think the Gauntlet of Power and r eplaced with Mimic Vat in your maybeboard. Seeing how some very powerful cards were spoiled in modern horizons, you're going to need either some more monsters with great defenses or stax to prevent any threats coming towards you. Crawlspace and Ensnaring Bridge might work, mostly the former if you don't want the archenemy option
2 weeks ago
May as well lay into the stax effects with Winter Orb , Torpor Orb , Crawlspace , Defense Grid , Authority of the Consuls . The table is going to be miserable, so might as well add in Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and to Consecrated Sphinx .
2 weeks ago
Wow, thanks for the huge reply. Let me work through this-
Treasure Nabber : so, I did in fact get this idea from an older version of your decklist and I've ran with it ever since. Essentially my deck has turned into IB/artifact tomfoolery as an alternate wincon. I have won quite a few games with the Mycosynth Lattice , Nabber, Blood Moon combo, because my playgroup is heavily non-basic dependent and nothing feels better than saccing my new-found artifact mountains I just stole. Goblin Trashmaster has also came in really clutch with the Lattice and so has Goblin Welder . Hellkite Tyrant also fits into this theme but I haven't had a chance to use it yet, it's my most recent addition to the deck. And of course Daretti, Scrap Savant ties it all nicely together, I've had her emblem out a few times, which is pretty much game winning with a Lattice on board. With all of that said, the Artifact theme in this deck is highly up for debate right now in my mind and people I've asked. I'm very much on the fence about keeping the Lattice and Nabber in myself, and if they go then Hellkite most definitely goes. Also Lattice+ Vandalblast has pulled me out of many lost games and turned them into resounding victories (I also used to run Shattering Spree ).
Goblin Goliath : He is not being used. I have been on the fence about putting him in for a while now. I don't really know what to remove, and he is a lot of mana to utilize if I want to use him (he'd be a fat removal target for my meta, so I'd have to use him ASAP). I definitely want him in though, he's a strong contender.
Vicious Shadows : this is also a new addition. Boggart Shenanigans is great but I've never really made it work too well outside of like, two wins that I can recall. Shadows is expensive, but with Gauntlet of Power , Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx (which I can reliably grab with an Expedition Map , that cost is almost negligible, for a lot more disgusting effect. But like I said, new addition, I don't know if it is worth a crap or not yet. With the cost in mind, I do plan on running an Extraplanar Lens when I upgrade to Snow lands, alongside the Gauntlet and a Shrine to Nyx, high mana costs with very few lands aren't usually much of an issue. But if Shadows falls flat a few times I am definitely putting Shenanigans back in I think. The potential is just too high for both cards.
Raid Bombardment : So I used to run this one. I like it in theory a lot, and I want to find a spot to put it back in, I just haven't seen it with great results usually. Granted, that was with different playgroup then now, where typically me swinging with goblins means they die in vain, whereas I was much more likely to win with a Goblin Bombardment , which is my baby, and I have used with Shenanigans as well to win games.
Glacial Crevasses : it's been on my radar for a long time. It is 100% the next upgrade for my deck, I was just hesitant to spend so much on snow lands for a long time, since I am still not sold on how many I need exactly. Frankly I think I made a mistake holding off on this particular upgrade for so long (like I mentioned, I've been following this decklist for over a year now after I built my first iteration of IB).
Reverberate / Fork / Wild Ricochet : I love the idea, I really do, but I ran them in my deck for a long time and have hardly used them to any meaningful effect. Ricochet is never going back in, but Reverberate and Fork I want to keep/put in, I just noticed they were usually dead in hand. They're near the top of the list of card I'll put back in, it's just finding space for them. I've never drawn into a game winning combo with them unfortunately, but the theory behind keeping them is solid.
Reforge the Soul : I used to run it, then took it out because I just didn't utilize it enough. Memory Jar is one of my more recent upgrades and I am a big fan. I just put Reforge back in because of Vicious Shadows . Time will tell if I keep either, since Slate of Ancestry also usually ended up falling flat for me.
Ancient Tomb : is also scheduled for the next round of upgrades, thanks for the suggestion! Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle does work, and I think I will also be ordering a Bloodstained Mire with it as well.
Chandra, Fire Artisan : Love her, would highly recommend. Cards effects like Commune with Lava are awesome, and have usually always performed well in this deck. Added to that is the fact that I don't have to spend mana for that option past the first turn to cast her, and she is also another target that distracts from myself, and if I can ult her (I haven't been able to yet) then it's just icing on the cake.
Expedition Map : Yeah frankly I think this is kind of a bad pick too, thinking about it now. It's mainly just in there for Nykthos, since Nykthos is a little more critical now that my average curve has gone up a tad bit. Another mana rock would probably suit me better and more consistently. I know you mentioned a Mana Vault , but what else do you think? I am thinking Basalt Monolith , Gilded Lotus , or a Thran Dynamo . Leaning heavily towards the Monolith and Gilded Lotus. Granted, they're more expensive to get out than Vault, but the 4 cost associated with Vault kind of puts me off of it, idk.
Ghirapur Orrery : I think you have this mixed up with Vedalken Orrery . Ghirapur is super value for me, letting me sac two lands, then play those two lands with Crucible of Worlds , and I'm also frequently out of cards in hand. I'd be willing to remove it for a similar effect though, if I knew one that existed.
Curse of Opulence : I like it, great suggestion.
Rings of Brighthearth : I've wanted this card for ages and kept putting it off because of price, and now it's even more expensive. RIP. I do want to add it asap. Not sure what I would do with Sculpting Steel
Spine of Ish Sah : I want to change this but I can't justify it. It just combos with Welder too well. But Scour from Existence has been on my mind for a long time now solely for the exiling. Haphazard Bombardment seems awesome tbh, that might get picked up by me eventually.
Sundial of the Infinite : My meta runs a lot of board wipes, but tbh thinking about it, they don't often cast them on my turn, so this is probably largely useless for me.
Meekstone has always hindered me more than helped me, and not super useful in my meta, but I think it's high time Crawlspace made a return. Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs is actually insane, that may beat out Crawlspace for me. Wow.
Bottom line is I am heavily thinking about scrapping the heavy artifact theme and going with a more focused deck. I'm just hesitant because the cards in question have won me many games.
3 weeks ago
If you are building the deck for a pillow fort only group like it says in the deck description, I don't know how well the tokens will do. Kinda shut down by Ghostly Prison and Crawlspace . Otherwise, the deck feels solid, maybe cut Sunforger for Wear / Tear ?
Crawlspace occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.03%