Wheel of Fate
Suspend 4— *(Rather than cast this card from your hand, pay and remove it from the game with four time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.) *
Each player discards his or her hand, then draws seven cards.
|Want (3)||marflepop , pksword1 , Streyken|
Printings View all
|Mystery Booster (MYS1)||Rare|
|Commander 2016 (C16)||Rare|
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Wheel of Fate Discussion
1 week ago
Cards to play: Psychosis Crawler which will reward you for drawing by dealing damage. Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted is the better ob nixilis for this deck. Whispering Madness, Dark Deal, Reforge the Soul, Magus of the Wheel, Incendiary Command, Wheel of Fate, Time Reversal, Echo of Eons are all wheel effects that make your opponents suddenly draw a ton of cards that will then let you deal damage to everyone. Prosperity Will have everyone drawing equally. Izzet Signet, Dimir Signet, Rakdos Signet, Arcane Signet are decent mana rocks you're missing. Arcane Denial counters a spell and lets them draw and replaces itself. Stormfist Crusader howling mine effect but punishes at the same time.
Cards to take out. Pillage Very inefficient. Quest for Ancient Secrets Very slow. Sadistic Sacrament not really what this deck is truly wanting to do. Shrieking Affliction 99/100 games your opponents will have more than 1 card in hand. Darksteel Plate just too expensive to be good for this deck. Ob Nixilis Reignited not as good as the other ob nixilis. Cerebral Vortex not usually going to deal massive damage and only damages 1 opponent. Painful Quandary I like this card and probably wouldn't get rid of it, but your opponents will usually have the card to discard. Crawlspace not really going with your overall game plan, it does slow your opponents down,but not by enough. Nin, the Pain Artist it's a lot of mana to sink into an effect like this. Curse of Fool's Wisdom only targets 1 player, it's really too limited. Torbran, Thane of Red Fell a lot of your debate sources are black, this is decent with your commander but not much else. Reverberate I didn't see a huge number of decent targets forthis spell and it doesn't do a whole lot of good. Darksteel Ingot I don't personally like seeing 3 cost mana ramp, I'd suggest replacing it with a signet.
I would like to say that I really like your deck, it's an interesting take on an interesting commander. This is meant to be constructive and all with the best intentions.
1 month ago
thanks Peoni for the input. I have to say that i like these reccomendations. Wheel of Fate is something I have to pick up. I'm going to say no to the ping effects or Teferi's Puzzle Box since they don't contribute to milling. You bring up a great point about rip and cage. I know I have a Grafdigger's Cage but I might be using it in another deck for now. I'll see if I can find any similar effects like those to help out, I should at least have a Tormod's Crypt lying around somewhere. I forgot about Kami!! I'll definetly look into Howling Mine too.
1 month ago
Also consider this strat: you have your Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter combo. Couple it with group X draw cards like Fascination, Minds Aglow, and Prosperity and you've got yourself anything from a potential win via nasty table mill to a de facto game winner with Nekusar, Kederekt Parasite, or Fate Unraveler (and Psychosis Crawler if you decide to run it). Oh and you can open yourself up for a Thassa's Oracle win.
Nice deck. I've always liked Nekusar myself. Hopefully I'll get the chance to put a wheel deck together for him one day. Hope this helps! :^)
1 month ago
Some cards that you might like: Brallin, Skyshark Rider Flip, Shabraz, the Skyshark, Rielle, the Everwise, The Locust God, Psychosis Crawler, Burning Inquiry, Molten Psyche, Narset, Parter of Veils, Alms Collector, a Niv-Mizzet of your choice perhaps, Fevered Visions, Magus of the Jar, Wheel of Fate, Teferi's Puzzle Box, Winds of Change and I'll stop myself there lol.
Something you could do that might be cool would be to run a lot of cards like Dictate of Kruphix, Kami of the Crescent Moon, and Howling Mine to boost everybody's draw (might make them consider not killing you lol). That would rip the rug out from under everybody and make your wheels that much more impactful. Make them discard 12 cards instead of 6 or 7! Plus you're getting them closer to drawing on an empty deck.
As far as card draw goes, my favorites are targeted X spells like Blue Sun's Zenith and Stroke of Genius as they could always be upgraded to kill tools with an infinite source of mana i.e. Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter and I just like them a lot. If you decided to pursue group draw you could also experiment with stuff like Prosperity, Minds Aglow, and Fascination (you said you like options right?). Along with this I would add to your ability to win off of self mill with Thassa's Oracle and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries so that Lab Man has some friends.
I know you're running some recursion yourself but this deck has the potential to seriously fuel opposing decks with heavy graveyard interaction as their motif, for obvious reasons lol. Since you have have access to white you could always try Rest in Peace for the complete shutdown, and then maybe a Grafdigger's Cage just as another piece of graveyard hate. Alternatively, you might prefer cards with one time effects like Relic of Progenitus and Scavenger Grounds.. or you could mix and match! Up to you.
FINALLY, (yes I know, we're finally at the end) I would honestly just replace many of the dual lands you have that come in tapped with basics. I just personally don't enjoy having my lands come in tapped while everyone else gets ahead, and I really feel like basics are actually better than tapped lands even if they don't have the versatility or effects. Of course shocks and duals and fetches would always be nice, but we're trying to stay in budget so I'd just stick to the basics.
I know it's long but I just really enjoy researching cards and learning about different strats so I usually get carried away. I tried to stick with recommendations that stay under $10 but a few over the limit might've slipped through. I like your deck, hope this helped! :^)
2 months ago
Daveslab2022 I could tell you what trends my testing has pointed my to so far but I’d like to understand the inclusion of Mystical Tutor and Manamorphose. Tutor is strong but it can be clunky without the means to set up a follow up draw. Manamorphose is quite perplexing. Time Walk was doing a better impression in that slot but this goes to something I mentioned about Unrestricted emphasizing card rate over mana rate. I may pull a few Moxen along with Probes/Wraiths. Then I run into the unfortunate circumstance of drawing into all counters or all mana. That’s not to say I can’t use Manamorphose at all. I tried it briefly in my Wheel of Fate deck as some mana fixing but it just wasn’t working as well as what I ended up with.
I was told I didn’t want to listen to others and just wanted to be right. I was told I wouldn’t be heard without including what someone else believed was right. I’d prefer the data speak for itself. Unless you just want to be right. I’ve got more testing to be done but I’ll tell ya, maindeck Leyline of Sanctity disagrees so far. But I would prefer others test so they can trust their own eyes rather than mine. My impression beyond that is that your deck is pretty split with all my combo decks. What I thought about Mind Funeral still holds. Apparently it takes a bit more than two extra lands to overcome an Academy-backed Mind Grind. But the vulnerability of Timetwister is a small percentage thing. Stax performs as expected. It wins the vast majority of games it starts on the play thanks to the sheer redundancy of hate. On the draw the story is flipped and the deck loses the overwhelming majority of games when your deck doesn’t fizzle. I’d like to understand Mystical Tutor and Manamorphose better before giving any critique. The two blue based prison decks (D&T and the enchantment prison) have performed the best so far. D&T is close to 50/50 at maybe 55% favorable against your deck. Stealing the play with Leyline of Anticipation as well as having a ton of creatures to invalidate Force of Negation shows just a bit of edge over your list. The best performer so far has been the enchantment deck. And by a huge margin. That deck can steal the play with blue Leyline and/or can invalidate your deck with white Leyline. That’s before the game has begun. Then the counter war begins and this deck has the best blue support of my prison decks. But that can go both ways. Then there’s consistency. Some of my hate pieces do nothing against your deck. Energy Field is pitch fodder. Rest in Peace is pretty cold. But the rest either slow you down sufficiently (Blind Obedience) or shut you down completely (Arcane Laboratory, Deafening Silence). I suppose you could Timetwister your Tendrils back and do that ten times over twenty turns? But at that pace, Rest in Peace does become relevant.
Again, I’d like to understand your deck more completely before saying much else.
2 months ago
2 months ago
Thank you so much for your comment Profet93! Super helpful :)
Your first point about lowering land counts and dropping Molten Vortex for a few draw engine sounds like a superb idea!
A lot of cool sugestions will give you my thoughts about them!
- Endless Atlas A great one, that I even have a copy of, I see no reason not to add it :)
- Hedron Archive Not sure sure about this one, it seems a bit expensive at 4 mana. It looks like it would be more used as ramp than draw no?
- Humble Defector This sounds like a fun one! Can even steal it back with Confusion in the Ranks even without Homeward Path (which have some anti-synergy with Confusion). Will definitely pick it up.
- Ignite the Future/Light Up the Stage are very interesting cards, but I would be afraid not to be able to cast what ever I exile or for it to be lands, would need access to at least 8 mana to be able to cast it, feels a bit too slow. Not super sold on these two :)
- Mind's Eye Expensive as you say but will be worth it if the game will drag on, will be looking to picking this one up together with the Honor-Worn Shaku
- Solemn Simulacrum have a few of these laying around, not sure why I never put one it. Will do it until I find something to replace it with. :)
- Wheel of Fortune/Wheel of Fate/Reforge the Soul/Magus of the Wheel, of Fortune is not within my price range, it is almost as much as the rest of the deck combined. I might pick the Magus of the Wheel however as a cheap alternative.
- Curse of Opulence Such a evil card! A lot of my group either play decks that benefit a lot from ramp or who need a lot of mana. So I fear this would help them more than me, I will definitely put it on my list to pick it up if I see one cheap though. Cause I do want to try it.
- Dockside Extortionist Strong card! But unfortunately a bit to expensive, will put it on my "buy on a bargain" list though!
- Mind Stone will put in this one, like it more than the Hedron Archive as you can drop it a lot faster.
- Ruby Medallion Neat, will be looking to picking one up
- Sword of the Animist That's true! It basically reads "Pay 2, Put a land from your library into the battlefield tapped", will be looking to adding this one too for sure!
- Tough one, $15 is about what I am prepared to put down on a single card, if it isn't a win con or simply a "must have", I wouldn't say this is either but it is strong and versatile so will probably pick it up if I can.
- Etali, Primal Storm Aww, I just bought this guy for my Xenagos' Dudes goes Face deck where he can get instant value, maybe I should have picked up two of them. My fear here is that it's can be a bit too slow to have to wait another turn to be able to attack with it.
- Sunbird's Invocation Insane card. At the point I can put this down the game is either over or would be over in a few turns. Most of the cards in the deck needs a few turns to actually do something so even though this card is insane it might be too late?
- Sensei's Divining Top Love this card so much, but unfortunately a bit too expensive. It's on the "Get it on a bargain" list :)
- Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle It's also a bit too much to put on a card that is only going to ping for 3. If I had a few more ways to put out lands each turn it could be worth the 20$
- Chain Reaction Good idea, will replace it when I find one
- Nevinyrral's Disk Will be looking to pick one up!
- Blast Zone Looks to be a bit slow? Will pick one up anyhow and test run it
- Terror of the Peaks Yeah, wanted this in Norin as soon as I saw it. It have been dropping in price in my local market so will be looking to picking a couple up for my decks soon.
Again thank you so much for your comment, it have been super helpful.
I am super interested in hearing your thoughts about cuts to the deck. Like what you think is too weak or doesn't fit. :)
2 months ago
Why isn't Norin listed as your commander? In any case, I have a couple ideas...
Molten Vortex - I get the concept behind this card with your high land count, but rather hope to draw this card as you are flooding your deck with a high land count and less draw, why not increase your draw and lower your land count a bit? This way, you are less reliant upon top decking and card find an easier time to maintain gas in the mid-late game. Draw ideas are as follows...
Endless Atlas - Comes down early, cheap to use, only 2nd to tome of legends but very worthwhile nevertheless
Hedron Archive - Acts as ramp when you need it and card draw when you don't. Pretty useful
Ignite the Future/Light Up the Stage - Unlike cathartic reunion which provides virtual card advantage by giving you a better choice of cards, ignite the future provides actual card advantage. Plus, flashing it back is nice when you have ran out of gas. Light up the stage is nice, especially in your build which focuses on little damage accumulating since it can be played even cheaper. Both are highly recommended.
Mind's Eye -While expensive to cast, helps ensure gas in mid-late game. Goes well with Honor-Worn Shaku which should also be added as a strictly better wornpowerstone in this deck, because with Norin + Eye + Shaku, you can tap Norin each upkeep to untap Shake and use it to fuel mind's eye for card draw. Not to mention tapping down purphorous and your planeswalker to ramp feels good too
Solemn Simulacrum - Not necessary but a good staple in most mono red/white builds given it provides you with what you need, card draw and ramp.
Now that we have discussed card draw, it is time to help you ramp out your goals more quickly....
Curse of Opulence - Politics, and ramp with Norin that can start as early as T3. Very helpful. Don't forget, you can use the treasure tokens it makes with goblin welder to bring back an artifact!
Dockside Extortionist - Comes down early, makes lots of mana, very powerful card especially in the right meta. Highly recommended.
Mind Stone - Ramp when you need it, card draw when you don't. Its a baby hedron archive
Ruby Medallion - Ramp, plain and simple
Sword of the Animist - Imagine Norin with the sword attacking and then running away to get a land. Very fun!
There is more ramp but this should be a decent help given your CMC is low enough already despite the chaos cards, especially for a Norin build! Kudos to that! Now let's discuss some utility...
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Ramp, removal, draw and wincon all in 1. Don't sleep on this card
Etali, Primal Storm - What chaos deck doesn't love the chaos dino? It can be a wincon on its own!
Sunbird's Invocation - This card reads, if you don't destroy me, I win in the next few turns. The amount of value this card brings is insane
Sensei's Divining Top - Top deck filter and a rare draw when you need to dig a little deeper.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle - Highly recommended with all of your mountains
Lastly we should discuss removal....
Chain Reaction > Storm's Wrath - There are usually many creatures in EDH and this just destroys them all instead of the weaker ones.
Nevinyrral's Disk - I see no way for you to deal with enchantments, having one reset button is crucial in case things get out of hand.
Blast Zone - Another option to deal with enchantments or pesky permanents that fits its way into the land base
Terror of the Peaks - Newest addition to any Norin deck. Synergy and power blended together at a fair CMC.
I have other suggestions and ideas for cuts should you wish. Be sure to let me know what you think of each suggestion. Looking forward to your response.