|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters Edition IV||Rare|
|Masters Edition III||Rare|
|International Collector's Edition||Rare|
|Limited Edition Beta||Rare|
|Limited Edition Alpha||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (5)||Mousemke , NostalgicAce , greanbeaner , tragic_slip , KillDatBUG|
|Want (9)||Sasuin , , sonnet666 , Big-Foot , Splashy , pskinn01 , Roadhog , GeminiSpartanX , Spinalripper|
3 weeks ago
In light of the recent MTGO Commander Banlist announcement, I thought to ask everyone what the banlist would look like if they made it.
The following proposed banlist is my opinion of what the banlist should look like. You will see 3 criteria for what makes a card unfit for the format, and a list of what cards could be banned based on them:
Proposed banlist Show
First off, the easiest thing to tackle is the fact that simple bans can be made to ensure the format is not a pay-to-win game, in order to make the format more inviting AND ensure that the winner isn't always the one with the most money:
- The ABUR Duals (Tundra, Underground Sea, Badlands , Taiga, Savannah, Scrubland, Volcanic Island, Bayou, Plateau, and Tropical Island)
- The Power 10 (Black Lotus, Time Walk, Ancestral Recall, Mox Sapphire, Mox Jet, Mox Ruby, Mox Pearl, Mox Emerald, Timetwister, and Library of Alexandria)
- Candelabra of Tawnos
- Capture of Jingzhou
- Gaea's Cradle
- Gauntlet of Might
- Grim Tutor
- Imperial Recruiter
- Imperial Seal
- Mana Drain
- Mishra's Workshop
- Ravages of War
- The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
- Time Vault
Next, what's the point of having the format be 100-card singleton if we can just jam the best tutors and obscene card drawing engines into every deck? I'd ban those cards to ensure the game can't become stale through consistency:
- Altar of Bone
- Arcum Dagsson
- Birthing Pod
- Captain Sisay
- Defense of the Heart
- Demonic Tutor
- Diabolic Intent
- Edric, Spymaster of Trest
- Eladamri's Call
- Enlightened Tutor
- Fauna Shaman
- Gifts Ungiven
- Green Sun's Zenith
- Hermit Druid
- Merchant Scroll
- Mystical Tutor
- Oath of Druids
- Personal Tutor
- Sterling Grove
- Survival of the Fittest
- Sylvan Tutor
- Trade Secrets
- Traverse the Ulvenwald
- Vampiric Tutor
- Worldly Tutor
- Yawgmoth's Bargain
- Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
- Zur the Enchanter
Lastly, the elephant in the room. According to a survey conducted by MaRo, people said that the most unfun event for them in a game of magic is mana denial. Being denied mana production or being unfairly out-ramped is a core part of games that are the opposite of fun:
- Braids, Cabal Minion
- Limited Resources
- Mana Crypt
- Mana Vault
- Mana Vortex
- Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
- Sol Ring
- Static Orb
- Tangle Wire
- Tolarian Academy
- Winter Orb
And that's it!
I'm anticipating a few arguments to this proposed banlist.
Firstly, I'm sure that many would argue that such a banlist would allow many combos to run rampant through commander, to which I would say, with what tutors? Combos that previously didn't exist truly now exist, but without tutors to back them up, it will be difficult to assemble combos.
Some will say that Stax decks are no longer viable, to which I respond with the question: If stax and MLD are objectively the most effective way to ensure opponents don't enjoy the game, what argument could there possibly be for their inclusion?
Lastly, many opponents of this proposed banlist will probably argue that such a banlist is far too long to be healthy. I agree that a shorter banlist would be better, so I am interested to hear which specific examples aren't as bad of violators of the problems I mentioned for each section.
1 month ago
I'm going to do a major overhaul:
2 months ago
My apologies. I forgot to card-link that land-base list. Here:
1x Ancient Den
1x Fetid Heath
1x Mystic Gate
1x Port Town
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Tainted Isle
1x Watery Grave
2 months ago
3 months ago
For Budget decks I prefer them to be 2 color and not 3 as the mana base is much cheaper. If you were to look for the best dual lands, pretty much any deck without is relatively cheap.
Personally I made a Daxos the Returned deck and it plays how you describe. NOBODY sees it as a threat. It is cheap to build (just buy the Precon), and upgrades are rampant. It doesn't have so even the most expensive land in the deck Scrubland is relatively cheap when you compare it against others. It is midrange that can either combo out or beat people down old fashioned style.
Do note, it is meant to be as competitive as Daxos can be, which is still fairly casual. Daxos will never be top tier, but he is fun, cheap, and can actually win games. You also gain the benefit of being able to upgrade him over time. There are plenty of card choices to upgrade him.
I'm not saying build Daxos, but perhaps something like him.
3 months ago
I've opted for a mid-range of Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Goblin Bombardment, but Crucible of Worlds is a very viable and effective mid-range as well. I like that Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker on his own can copy and has some good synergies Rune-Scarred Demon for example. Goblin Bombardment protects my creatures from being taken control. Crucible of Worlds and the Fetch lands would filter the lands out of the deck and make it concentrated and deadly too.
Currently have 7 Fetch lands. I have 6 Dual lands and 6 Basic lands that can actually be fetched.
I always worry I won't have a land to fetch, not so much with , but and to a lesser degree . Let's say I pull a Polluted Delta and my Badlands, Blood Crypt, Godless Shrine, Scrubland and Swamp have been pulled or drawn. Not that worry some, but when going through red, and knowing i'm pulling for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker it's possible.
Verdant Catacombs is a better option, because land targets are higher. I've thought about it, have it in my Maybeboard, but usually it's price tag discourages me from making the purchase.
In a Crucible of Worlds build though, I might actually go fewer Fetch lands, since I will be recycling my fetches, I'd want more targets for the fetches and less fetches themselves (unable to filter themselves) to aid in filtering the deck, but keep enough of the primary interaction colors that the mana base runs properly.
I don't think I'd ever really try and cast the creatures, if Kaalia of the Vast is being unsuccesful, I usually look to connecting on an infinite damage combo that's built in, usually using a Whip of Erebos or Animate Dead / Reanimate or Karmic Guide etc, to pull the pieces back from the graveyard.
Crucible of Worlds is a very effective mid-range strategy, if that's a flavor you prefer, it's a good one. I was thinking of moving Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker to my Melek, Izzet Paragon deck but haven't made that decision yet.
Appreciate the comment and the cards for consideration.
4 months ago
k_larriv Very interesting list and I think it looks really good.
Ill admit Im a little jealous you found a Serra's Sanctum, which should be wonderful in a deck like this.
As far as the maybe lands you have, Id forego all but Cabal Coffers. I agree that Scrubland and Marsh Flats are pricey for the fixing they provide like its a near insignificant improvement in the land base for the price of all the lands already in the deck all put together (unless, of course, your meta is super cut-throat competitive, which doesnt sound like much fun to me)!I highly recommend Cabal Coffers, although it would work best if you increased your swamp count or indeed picked up Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. In fact, if you add Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and a couple more swamps, that should take pretty good care of your mana fixing right there without considering the (other) expensive duals and fetches since Urborg will make all your lands tap for black mana. Paired with Cabal Coffers and you can see where your mana can accumulate rather quickly without duals and fetches. I might go as far to say that the Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth - Cabal Coffers combo is more effective and consistent at generating mana in a deck like this than Serras Sanctum would be because they rely on your lands, which are less prone to removal than your enchantments throughout the game (unless your meta is running mass land removal). Of course, this only applies if you actually manage to get these lands into play, and for that I suggest the incredible Expedition Map. Expedition Map is a great artifact in that for 3 generic mana you may search for a land . . . any land! This includes Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Serra's Sanctum, or even Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. This effect can easily replace a mana rock, as essentially fetching for any land can be much more powerful than almost any mana rock. For example, you have Commander's Sphere, which is the same cmc as Expedition Maps total effect (1 cmc plus 2 to sac it), but the sphere can eventually be removed easier because it has to hang around for a couple turns before you get even with the amount of mana you used to cast it. Yes, it cantrips on the fly if targeted for removal, but the draw can be anything from another card that produces only a single mana to a high cmc card that you cant even play for a while (because, ironically, youre getting mana screwed) or a great card that you didnt want to draw at that time. Expedition Map, however, cantrips itself into any land you feel will help you out the most at that time. Have a bunch of enchantments out, but only a couple swamps? Use it to get Serra's Sanctum! Just got wiped of your enchantments and have a handful of swamps out? Get Cabal Coffers! Already have Cabal Coffers out? Get Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth! You notice your devotion to white is currently greater than your number of enchantments out? Grab out Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx with Expedition Map! With so many high utility lands, especially if you add Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Cabal Coffers, the Map is a great tutor for them, and can replace a mana rock.
Regarding Eiganjo Castle: its great to keep Daxos alive . . . if he were only taking 2 damage at a time since you have to tap the land for the ability, but if he were taking 4+ damage, then not so good. At least in my meta, Im more likely being swung at, and would like to block or prevent damage, of power 5+ (this is EDH afterall). The 2s and 3s swinging at me I would usually let in if I have no other blocker other than Daxos since I obviously dont want to trade my commander, and with enough life-gain effects from lifelink abilities and extort, this may end up being okay (et al your Campaign of Vengeance, Death Grasp, Fumigate, Underworld Coinsmith, etc., and Authority of the Consuls and Blind Obedience from your maybeboard). A better effect would be to prevent the higher damage amounts, which, if Daxos is not already enchanted for indestructibility, can be done via other enchantments! Righteous Aura (already on your maybeboard) is a cheap (cmc and $) aura enchantment that allows you to repeatedly pay one white mana and 2 life to prevent all damage a targeted source would deal to you this turn. Not great when 1/1s and 2/2s are swinging at you (again, see the life-gain balance above), but great for a small handful of 4/4s+ - even if those creatures attacking you have trample and lifelink the Righteous Aura will protect you for a mere investment of a white mana an 2 life. Better to pay 6 life and 3 mana than lose 10-12 life from a couple 6/6 tramplers (or worse still, 5-6+ commander damage!). Possibly even better for Daxos specifically is Gossamer Chains. A nifty 2 white mana enchantment with the ability to return it to your hand to prevent all combat damage from any single unblocked creature. Someone attacking you with his or her green fatty? Assign no blockers and just before the damage step, return Gossamer Chains to your hand and prevent it all which you can then recast from your hand on your turn for another experience counter from Daxos! Of course, its a single use until you can recast it, whereas Righteous Aura can be used multiple times while its out, but for late game when its down to you and one other player, or a three player game where one player isnt casting much fatty creatures, it could really shine and rack up your exp counters. Like any similar prevent damage effect, it can also outright prevent an opponent from attacking you if he or she knows the damage wont get through anyway, and it would even net you another exp counter for which the attacker does not want to be responsible for, so he or she may end up attacking your opponents instead until the Chains can be removed. I notice you have Pariah on your maybeboard, which would have a similar effect for you if you enchanted your own indestructible creature or creature with protection from combat damage (et al your Heliod, God of the Sun and Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts), but then Pariah is highly susceptible to being 2-for-1d if the creature it enchants is still removed somehow, plus Pariah is usually used on an opponents creature to play that opponent into using removal on it instead of on your other enchatments.
-I notice youre running Grave Peril over Seal of Doom. Grave Peril is 1 cmc less, but at 3 cmc for Seal of Doom (1 generic mana at that, but Sun Titan can still recur either), it shouldnt be terribly difficult to cast, plus you can trigger Seal of Doom whenever you would like instead of relying on Grave Peril mandatorily (not optional according to Oracle) sacing itself when any other non-black creature ETBs. You must sac Grave Peril to destroy any other non-black creature, which I understand may prevent opponents from casting certain creatures while it is out, but only temporarily until they find a way to remove it or cast a martyr creature that he or she is willing to be destroyed (or worse yet, just trip it with a 1/1 token) to then cast other non-black creatures. In fact, Grave Peril auto-triggers on any of your own 7 white creatures in your deck, so you wouldnt be able to cast those either white it is out unless you remove Grave Peril or allow your creature to be destroyed. Seal of Doom on the other hand, like Seal of Cleansing that you have, allows you to cast and choose when to sac it to destroy any targeted non-black creature.
-I notice youre running Pacifism over Prison Term. Pacifism, like Grave Peril, is 1 cmc less than the alternative Prison Term (1 white mana, but Sun Titan can still recur either one), but for the one extra white mana investment, the enchanted creature also cannot activate its abilities (Breya and Atraxa, anyone?). Better still, whenever another creature ETBs, you may move Prison Term to that creature, so you can move the Prison Term around the board as new creature threats emerge from multiple players. It can even be used as a political bargaining chip in the political atmosphere of EDH. You can play it on PlayerAs creature for example, but then PlayerB casts a big fatty that PlayerA knows is going to attack him or her. PlayerA can bargain with you to move your Prison Term to PlayerBs creature in exchange for not attacking you or targeting you with PlayerAs creature. Now youve effectively Pacified 2 creatures from attacking you! I thought there was a Pacifism-type enchantment that could also be returned to a players hand (to recast for Daxos exp counters), but I cant think of the name off the top of my head ATM.
-I notice youre running Succumb to Temptation over Read the Bones. I admit, Succumb to Temptation is rather . . . tempting (couldnt help it), but for the same 3 cmc (without the double-black mana even) you can effectively dig 4 cards deep with Read the Bones. For example, Temptation draws you 2 cards. Thats it. You draw whatever 2 cards were sitting on the top of your library at that moment. However, with Bones, you get to scry 2 first before you draw 2. You dont like the 2 cards you just scryd? No problem, slip them to the bottom of your library instead and take your chances on the next 2 cards, which means youve now effectively dug 4 cards deep into your library looking for that answer. Granted, Temptation is at instant speed whereas Bones is sorcery, but I think the scry ability essentially letting you look at the top 2 cards before choosing to draw them is more powerful than drawing at instant speed when you have other draw engines in the deck (et al your Underworld Connections and Erebos, God of the Dead if you choose to add him too from your maybe board). Plus, Bones is on flavor point for being from Theros block where Daxos originally hails.
A couple other cool cards I can suggest include:
-Dauthi Embrace: a 3cmc enchantment (Sun Titan range!) that can give a target creature shadow until end of turn for 2 black mana. With shadow, your creatures (most likely your Daxos enchantment tokens) can only be blocked (and can only block) other creatures with shadow. Tell me the last time you saw a shadow creature stomping around in EDH? So, this effectively makes your tokens unblockable given enough black mana, which shouldnt be terribly difficult mid- to late-game if youve used Expedition Map to pull up your Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth!
-Equipoise: Although I havent used this enchantment myself, it seems fairly spicy! Again, that sweet 3cmc Sun Titan range. It basically makes it so that a target player doesnt have more resources than you during your turn by phasing out any amount of each permanent type that the player controls greater than the amount of perms you control. Phasing out basically removes the permanents (and any attached auras or artifacts) from the game like they were never there important to note that the permanents are not exiled, so ETB triggers do not trigger upon their return and all attached auras/equips also return just the same. Best part is that you get to choose which perms phase out for your turn, so you can choose the untapped creatures, untapped lands, etc, to prevent combat clocks or counters/other instants being played from that player on your turn. If you play this card, let me know how it goes because Im interested in its effects.
-Argivian Find is worth a note if you manage to lose Sun Titan and really need to get back that Seal of Cleansing or Seal of Doom, etc. A 1 white mana instant-speed recursion of any enchantment or artifact is always good utility. Bonus points if you return Expedition Map to fetch up Cabal Coffers after youve just used the Map to get Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth!!
4 months ago
Right, right. I understand Scrubland, I just mentioned it due to it's dollar cost haha