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Thought Scour Discussion
4 hours ago
Holy crap. That's nice. Having played a version of the modern mill deck, without a doubt you want to be playing Ensnaring Bridge in the main board and at least one Surgical Extraction for combo/burn/etc. Otherwise, Visions of Beyond > Thought Scour > Serum Visions. Your cantrips exist so that you do not run out of steam and allow you to draw into cards that will either A) Mill your opponent outright or B) Help you stall until you can. The T4 win wombo-combo mentioned above is certainly nice, especially noting that it can be done at INSTANT SPEED. Profit. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth seems a bit bizarre in your build. If you were playing + , I could see it being helpful as your Ghost Quarters become Swamps, but otherwise its inclusion seems suspect. You want to fetch with your fetches to trigger Hedron Crab. Nephalia Drownyard seems too slow in the main unless you're playing Ensnaring Bridge in the main as well for a slow but inevitable alternate win-con. Hope you have as much fun playing Mill as I do!
23 hours ago
Omeros that is interesting. Abzan is more of a deck than Jund is and I do ok against it.
That Mardu shell is nice. I have a Mean Mardu build.
SCORE: 23 | 15 COMMENTS | 3605 VIEWS | IN 8 FOLDERS
. I have been away for a bit, testing out the waters of what have to offer.
For me Thought Scour draws me a card, so that alone gives me a better probability of drawing into lands than just drawing per turn. But I do see what you mean. Sometimes it does not do that. Good old Cryptic Command has done me well, but maybe, for more competitive play you are right. It is too slow and constricting on the base at times. Perhaps Countersquall or something else may fill that role. Perhaps Scavenging Ooze.
Against 4 cmc planeswalkers, The deck has has ways around them. Counterspells, Pulse, Snapcaster, Jace. Also, every deck looses and no deck is unbeatable. That is what happens in Magic--I would be a fool to argue otherwise.
23 hours ago
Like jlbotbyl I was curious how some of your card choices would play out in games, so I tested your deck in 3 pre-board, 2 post-board games against my current project: Marduu Mentor. Here are my take-aways from those games:
All of the games went to 10-14 turns, as both our decks run a lot of permission, so eventually mana screw would even out. Despite that-
Your mana base is more fragile than you might think. I was able to take you completely off post-board with Fulminators and Ghost Quarter. Part of the problem here is a mix of too many fast lands and too few basics.
Contrary to your experiences with the deck 21 lands felt too low in four of the five games. Even with Serum Visions, you were missing critical turn 3 or turn 4 land drops. Thought Scour is not a land-finding cantrip; it's a yard filler to many delve cheaper and give you more targets for Snapcaster flashback.
You're halfway between Midrange and Control but you don't really have enough of a draw or recursion engine to go long against another control deck. Every single game, my deck was getting more value and card draw even though my only blue spells are Snapcasters. If this holds up against other control decks - and I'm 99% certain it will hold vs Grixis Control - that means you need to be able to switch into a beatdown plan post-board versus these sorts of decks. I haven't tested your deck against Jund but I'm worried this same issue might crop up, but from their resource and card denial rather than because Jund is out-drawing you.
You're in serious trouble versus a resolved 4+ CMC planeswalker. The first test game was an absolute beating after I resolved Chandra, ToD. She's rarely played, it's true, but this makes me wonder if you're soft to Nahiri strategies as well.
Cryptic was okay but half the time I saw it I wished it was Countersquall, another Mana Leak, or even Spell Pierce. One time it was excellent but due to your relatively low land count I wasn't able to set up a Snap+Cryptic flashback to start to turn the corner.
Hope this helps.
1 day ago
Hi TheGreatLiar and thanks for your constructive comment!
Regarding Fatal Push, it does indeed lessen the need for a splash. What this means is that the dominance of Abzan and Jund is no longer so strong and that Sultai or pure Golgari are now viable options.
Whar pure BG offers is indeed either a smoother and less painful manabase - as I illustrated here - or the use of more utility lands, such as Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge, just as you suggested. I think both options are good. A third possible option, more fun but probably less competitive, could be going for devotion: Golgari Potter ! ;-)
I personnaly have more experience in Abzan and a bit of Jund. I've seldom played pure BG and therefore might have made a few mistakes in the list presented above, like one land too many or no land destruction at all - I will consult decklists online in order to improve this one, thanks for the tips.
What Sultai offers is detailed in the Rock + U = Sultai list. In substance, I think Thought Scour is a great turn one play alongside hand disruption and allows for a great mechanic with delve fatties and snappies. I am currently assembling this Sultai list and cannot wait to test it :-)
1 day ago
jlbotbyl I will answer your questions as best I can and thank you, for asking.
First and foremost--I have initially had the deck running at 20 lands, (which was still casting every card in the deck well) in which I then moved up to 21, and then 22, but then back down to 21, for feeling "flooded." The deck does immaculately at casting all of the spells here. I always hit 3 lands and a lot of my games tend to have me at around 5-7 lands (end game). I have to give credit to Thought Scour & Serum Visions as they help me "fix" whatever dilemmas I come across i.e land, removal, and so on.
Allow me to explain the ideal Turn 1/2. T1 play a fetch, crack, play Serum Visions or wait until the opponent passes turn back to you, for an eot Thought Scour. Turn 2, play land, cast Tasigur, the Golden Fang and keep a land open, for Spell Pierce to protect him. Then proceed the game. Spell Pierce is really here for protection and Turn 3 Karn Liberated. I had originally wanted to play Stubborn Denial, and still feel that way, but my friends say otherwise.
Cryptic Command is a house in here. I can see the reason behind your questioning, but I have literally won standstill against Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Wurmcoil Engine, by tapping them to swing in for lethal. The 1x of it is also, for late game. The recursion with Jace, Telepath Unbound Flip & Snapcaster Mage are just an added incentive. With cards like Thought Scour if I get it, I get it, and if I dont--I still have it due to the mentioned blue creatures above.
Damnation has literally won me games against Infect (awkward I know) and beats the hell out of Abzan Midrange. It serves the same purpose as the 1x of C-Command--they do what they do, when needed. The deck goes through it's library looking for answers--and it does it very well.
Mana Leak is something I can see your point on and originally wanted to use Logic Knot in place of, but felt it is really the best I can get, for 2 cmc in Modern. As you can see, there are only 2 Leaks and they are used according to the situation. Sometimes holding a Tarmogoyf in hand to counter a play you know is going to happen--is worth it (IMO). Besides with all the cantrips as opposed to other non based decks, my hand is much fuller than theirs and we play Magic my way sometimes. The deck doesnt really tap out on my turn, but rather during my opponent's turns to waste them. They play a creature, I remove it. They play a spell, I counter it (during their turn).
2 days ago
4 days ago
jup, if I am not mistaken, the loss of Gitaxian Probe can be mitigated by taking the deck a notch down in terms of speed and going for the midgame. I think (hope) it'll be just fine, and still very competitive then.
2 things: first, add the 4th Lightning Bolt. do it. its unequivocally a 4of. far too powerful.
second, the only way you will cast Bedlam Reveler for cheap with any regularity is running 4x Thought Scour. with git probe gone, its even more important to run them, and they're perfect for this deck anyway. trigger Thing in the Ice Flip at instant speed, cantrip at instant speed.
without having tested this, I would say run as many scours as revelers.
Its also questionable (in my list as in yours) wether 3 is not better than 3. If they come just right and you kind of chain from one to the next reveler, its awesome and almost certainly gg. but if you draw 2 inside the first 3-4 turns, it just sucks and is card disadvantage.