|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Iconic Masters (IMA)||Common|
|Duel Decks: Jace vs Vraska (DDM)||Common|
|Dark Ascension (DKA)||Common|
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Target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
Draw a card.
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|Want (2)||Ariumlegion , mafmatician|
Thought Scour Discussion
5 hours ago
@Mike94 - Hey! Thanks for all of the input, I really appreciate it. There's a lot of information here, so it may take a while for me to process it, and make changes to the deck accordingly.
I wanted to start off by saying the deck is actually more consistent than at first glance. I've had a lot of fun with this current build, but I am always looking to improve it. I will note that I don't actually own the deck, so my testing is limited to the 3 or 4 decks I do own just playing against myself.
That being said, from my playtesting Search for Azcanta Flip has been the worst card in the deck. We don't play enough control elements to gain maximum value from it, and a lot of cases we don't have enough mana to even activate it. It generall ends up being a free island, but that's about it. I get it's a great card in control shells, but they don't mind playing a draw go game, where the flip side is at it's best.
As for Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip, he's been much better, as he allows me to discard finisher's or unearth cards, rather than hope a bad card is on top of our deck, so I could see uping the count on them.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is usually a game ender against any fair deck. It usually kills a few creatures, and unless they have a removal spell that turn, it will more than likely be a victory. Grave Titan is in a similar boat. It made the deck because it is a great Unburial Rites target, but can also reasonably be cast (hence the 24 lands, although I think the deck would still operate on 23).
The Tasigur Gurmag split has been a weird balance for me, and I'm still not sure where I sit on it, although I can see shaving a Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
I also love the suggestion of Liliana, the Last Hope. She seems like a perfect fit into the deck, and I may slot her in over a Tasigur or something along those lines.
Now for the sideboard. I know my sideboard is full of gaps right now, that comes from not actually owning the deck, and therefore only having a moderate idea of where my worst match-ups are, and the best ways to shore them up. I personally don't see the point to Verdict over Wrath, as I'm not bringing it in against a deck running countermagic anyway, and the non-regeneration clause is likely more relevant due to that.
Anyway, that covers most of what you suggested. Thanks, I will definitly be testing with some of these cards to see how they feel. I really appreciate the help.
14 hours ago
Mill is tough in any format, but in a format as fast as Pauper, it's going to be really tough unless you can combo out some really big mill or have some way to survive for a long time. This deck does neither at the moment.
Your land-destruction sub-theme isn't doing a lot for you. It's high CMC and not very effective as your opponent can just tap different lands to avoid the tax.
Counterspell is better than Psychic Strike. The 1 CMC less is 10x more useful than the 2x mill. Grip of Amnesia might be okay in the sideboard against graveyard specific decks, but it does absolutely nothing to any deck that doesn't rely on the graveyard. They will just exile the graveyard they don't use every single time. Pauper has lots of good counter spells. Daze, Counterspell, Deprive, etc. Arcane Denial has a lot of synergy with this deck too, it may be worth running 4x of alongside 4x Counterspell for your control suite.
To fix some of the decks shortcomings, while keeping the premise of U/B Mill Control, I'd start by adding 4x Jace's Erasure. This card passively mills, mills more when you use draw spells (netting you double advantage) and stacks to become very difficult to deal with. You'll want to run 3-4x Muddle the Mixture to search out Jace's Erasure to ensure it's always on the field. It's also a solid counterspell as well, so it fits your control narrative.
Then you want to add some cantrips to help you filter through your deck and mill your opponent at the same time. I'd start with 4x Thought Scour, 4x Brainstorm, 4x Ponder. Brainstorm has the benefit of drawing 3, forcing 3 triggers on Jace's Erasure, even though you ultimately only draw 1. Ponder works with Brainstorm to let you shuffle away cards that you don't need right now. Thought Scour draws and forces them to mill at least 3 if Erasure is in play. 3-4x Mulldrifter gives you an option for a blocker or attacker while also drawing you cards. 1-3x Whirlpool Rider is also a solid card, as it can let you draw multiple cards triggering Jace each time.
As for removal, you'll want to run a few different cards. Diabolic Edict and Geth's Verdict are both solid, though I'd lean toward Edict due to the easier casting cost. Another option is Ghastly Demise, but I wouldn't run more than 1-2 of these. It lets you chose the target for removal and gets better as you fill up your graveyard with cantrips.
As for lands, I'd recommend just running 4x Evolving Wilds, 4x Terramorphic Expanse and the rest just basic Islands and Swamps. The two fetch land will help fill your graveyard for Diabolic Edict and also provides 8 shuffles to use with Brainstorm to allow you to really control what cards are on top of your library.
If we were to take all of this and put it into a deck, it might look something like this:
Mill: 4x Jace's Erasure
Now you've got a deck that controls the board state through great counterspells and removal, while constantly taking double advantage of drawing with Jace's Erasure. All you have to do is counter, destroy, draw, win.
20 hours ago
1 day ago
Love the deck but it looks really inconsistent, I could be wrong though. If I would take it for a spin I would make these adjustments;
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang -1
- Thought Scour -3
- Moorland Haunt -1
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite -1
- Grave Titan -1
- Gurmag Angler +1
- Griselbrand +1
- Search for Azcanta Flip +2
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip +1
- Ghost Quarter +1
- Liliana, the Last Hope +1
Thought Scour is one of the factor's that makes the deck to inconsistent and you can only do it once. You're not aggro so one for one's are not enough, value should bring you closer to your endgame. Search for Azcanta Flip or Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip are pure value generators. If you are really set on using Thought Scour, maybe Opt could be a great way to make it more consistent, it even draws an extra card but it would use up a lot of card slots though.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang should be good enough as a one of, while this opens another slot I would definitely add Liliana, the Last Hope she has good protection of her own and can help you with your self mill strategy while still gaining value of it. Her emblem wins games one it's own so she is an awesome threat in my opinion.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite feels a bit underwhelming as a finisher, she has no evasion on her own and doesn't give you anything for a grindy game. Griselbrand seems to fit the requirements to be a potent late game threat.
The Moorland Haunt seems to slow and not mana-efficient in the long game. Ghost Quarter is a main-board answer to Tron and can be boarded out if it's not necessary, 24 seems a bit high with your curve, 23 should also be enough I think.
For your sideboard, I would definitely try to add Trinisphere. Combo decks run rampant at tournaments and this card does a great job at keeping them from going of. I would also run Supreme Verdict instead of Wrath of God. You also don't seem to have an answer against control with their playsets of Snapcaster Mages, Grixis Death Shadow decks and Dredge. So to wrap it up this is how I would fill in the sideboard:
- Surgical Extraction 2x
- Trinisphere 2x
- Supreme Verdict 1x
- Stubborn Denial 1x
- Detention Sphere 2x
- Stony Silence 3x
- Thoughtseize 2x
- Leyline of the Void 3x
These where just some suggestion I hope you can utilize them!
4 days ago
Hey there! so you splashed blue in the end, I hope you find it more consistent. I can see you want to keep your combo in the deck, but you're going to have to work around it so it's either your only win condition or you add in different winning cards . Your deck is a mill deck, so you should limit the amount of creatures you have to about 10. Additionally, you NEED to reduce your deck to 60 cards. I'll tell you in my opinion which ones you need to drop. And lastly, I'd recommend switching to Modern, Legacy is just too expensive to consider playing. If you do switch to Modern, you won't be able to play Ponder or Dark Ritual or Hymn to Tourach. But I think you'll have more fun playing in Modern.
* Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek/Duress
* Mana Leak/Counterspell
* Thought Scour (really good for a mill deck, 1 mana= 3 mill + draw)/Serum Visions
* Doom Blade/Go for the Throat
* 1xMind Funeral
* 2xHedron Crab (works well with Terramorphic Expanse)
* Visions of Beyond
* Glimpse the Unthinkable
* Terramorphic Expanse
* Watery Grave
* Drowned Catacomb
* Haunting Echoes
1 week ago
I am also looking at my backup win condition package. Currently it is using Noxious Revival and Memory's Journey to loop Reality Shift to exile each opponent's library. However I recently added Thought Scour to the deck which I can use in place of Reality Shift, as well as looping Swan Song for infinite birbs.
Thanks in advance.
1 week ago
I'm also not a huge fan of Monastery Swiftspear but thats just personal preference
Good luck with the build though! Im loving the sudden surge in delver on the site!!!
1 week ago
The best way to speed the process up is one drop spells like Opt, Thought Scour, Vapor Snag, Piracy Charm, Gigadrowse and everyone's favourite Serum Visions. You want to take advantage of having spells in your graveyard, so playing cheap one drops helps.
You also need to think about how your deck functions without your enablers (Baral/Homunculus) in the same way the decks which run Baral and Goblin Electromancer do, the most expensive spells they cast are normally four mana and have storm... I think you need an alternative wincon, maybe Thing in the Ice Flip or Curator of Mysteries as more traditional finishers, possibly Nivmagus Elemental since the cast trigger would still take effect...