Target player puts the top two cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
Draw a card.
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Thought Scour Discussion
1 day ago
i reduced the mires to 2x and added 2 more basics. i think 4x would work better, honestly, but i needed to put 2 more into my legacy deck so yea. we'll see how it works.
as to the other suggestions - yea... i know those are the most efficient cards. and they were in here before, but i got bored playing it because there were several other decks that were exactly the same at the lgs.
thanks for your comment and suggestions :)
1 day ago
I'd also try to go down to 9 fetch lands rather than 12. At only 19 lands you'll basically have 3 or more dead cards in your deck. Replace 3xBloodstained Mire with a second copy of each of your shock lands. Or, if you're insistent on basics, just put in basics.
Anything else is personal preference really. Kolaghan's Command is one of the strongest cards in the Grix is list, so I'd personally run one or two more.
1 day ago
Glad you like it! Yes, that's the deck.
As for that list, the Bloodghast are highly unconventional. Most players would run Abbot of Keral Keep instead. Budgetless delver runs Snapcaster Mage, but that's expensive. Too expensive. You should definitely have your own decklist. Start with that one, then make edits to it. I can help you with that, but I would start by dropping the Ghasts for Abbots and swap 1 Izzet Charm for 1 more Thought Scour, unless you really like Ghast and want to play it really badly.
The name of the game is tempo. If you're not familiar with tempo, it's a bit difficult to explain, but I'll try. Tempo is basically a measurement of how well your deck is racing in comparison to the opponent. Another way to think of it is how many turns ahead of your opponent are you in terms of game development. The goal of the deck is to drop an early threat turn 1 or 2, then defend it with countermagic and burn spells. The namesake of the deck is Delver of Secrets Flip, which is usually a 3/2 flyer for 1 mana by turn 2. It is the best tempo creature possible - you play it early for very little mana, meaning you can leave mana open later to defend it as it destroys the opponent's life total. Traditionally, the creatures in Delver generally are not amazing creatures when they first hit the battlefield, but they completely overwhelm the opponent when given a free turn or two to wreck havoc. Young Pyromancer is a great example of this: you have a bad 2/1 creature at first, and even with 1-2 tokens he isn't great, but when you are defending him with countermagic and burning the opponent at the same time, he will create 4-5 tokens before the opponent knows what's happened and simultaneously your opponent will be helplessly behind in the game, allowing what is now a huge threat on the table to run away with the game.
So how does one build tempo? Remand is the best card to use when explaining tempo. Remand is oftentimes called Time Walk. But what does this actually mean? At a first glance, Remand doesn't actually counter a spell, just delays it, which is bad, right? Nope. Remand builds stupid amounts of tempo. To show how this works, let's use an example:
Let's say you're on the play. Turn 1 you play Delver of Secrets Flip. Their turn 1 they play a tapped land, then pass. On your second turn, you draw Remand to flip the delver, play your land, attack for 3, then pass. Now on their turn, they play a land then cast Terminate targeting Delver. You Remand it. Terminate goes back to their hand and you draw a card. At this point, you've caused them to 'lose' their second turn because you stopped their play and drew a card. But more importantly, they didn't kill Delver, or accomplish anything actually. You get another attack with Delver and another turn to build up your board state or tear down theirs. This equates to another 3 damage from delver, another turn to make more creatures, kill theirs, or just burn them to the face. You start to run away with the game, so the game is starting to slip away from them. Because you drew a card off Remand, you likely have a full hand of more countermagic and burn spells. They got their Terminate back, but you've bought yourself an entire turn to keep attacking and accelerate your game. Had you not Remanded their Terminate, you might play another creature the next turn, but you're losing damage from losing your creature and it takes more turns and more time to re-build, so a loss of tempo. Does this help explain tempo at all?
One thing to keep in mind when playing Delver is that although you're an aggro deck, you're in no rush to win the game. You don't have to be jamming every card in your hand through as fast as possible, and if you don't have the game by turn 4 you don't auto-lose like Burn. You should be expecting turn 5-6 wins, but you've usually secured the win by tempo advantage by turn 4. Oftentimes the first 3-4 turns will be spent trading resources and squeezing value out of cards against an interactive opponent, then out of nowhere your deck will make an explosive play to shoot ahead in tempo all at once (think flipping a delver and dropping a Tasigur in the same turn - you went from 1 to 7 points of damage on the field in one turn) at which point you go all out and finish them in a turn or 2. Delver is always going for the tempo kill, but it happens at very varying times and rates, which keeps the deck interesting and fun.
2 days ago
Ehhh. The sideboard's okay, but desperately needs a few changes. Cut all 4 Hurkyl's Recall. Affinity is a pretty good matchup for delver, so nothing like that will be necessary. 4 Forked Bolt is really excessive. 1 is reasonable, but it doesn't really hose anything that's that bad of a matchup for you. Faithless Looting does very little for you in the sideboard, if anything at all. 2 Murderous Cut is, again, too much delve, and probably unnecessary. I would take a look at Delving on a Budget for a great stock budget delver sideboard. If you want it non-budget, then swap Spreading Seas for Blood Moon and swap 2 Duress for 1 Thoughtseize and 1 Keranos, God of Storms. That should be a good start, but it will need some revising from there.
I've done some playtests with this deck with 6 delve creatures. You can only land the turn 2 threat if you have enough grave to delve away, which only consistently happens with Thought Scour. Usually getting 2 delve cards in the opening hand means one of them will not be cast until turn 4 or later. Drawing a third is literally pointless.
5 days ago
Interesting deck idea!
I'd consider Pestermite over Deceiver Exarch. It's a better tempo card than exarch, while exarch is the better control card. It dies much easier, which you have to consider, but the extra point of power and the flying are great when not comboing, which is important to consider.
I'd definitely add 1 Desolate Lighthouse and 1 Creeping Tar Pit. Loothouse helps you dig for gas or combo pieces, which is super helpful. Tar pit can extend your reach and help you push through those extra points of damage to close out the game.
What is with you and those bolts? Add 1 more. No, this isn't optional.
To make room, I think I'd cut 1 Gitaxian Probe, 1 Thought Scour, and 1 Terminate. 11 cantrips is a little excessive and Visions is likely the best among them. Terminate can go because twin delver isn't as reliant on killing things as normal delver, and you can cantrip into them pretty consistently.
5 days ago
Nice! +1. Way to bring back Vampire Nighthawk in style.
Here's a thought: I do like Faithless Looting here because it's a really nice late-game play if you have irrelevant lands or a dead spell. But in the early game, I'd rather have a Thought Scour. I realize you're doing a midrange thing and maybe don't want to be that random, but you have redundancy with your threats, including 4X Ghast, and you have 2X K-mand in the deck. I'd go so far as to suggest you might experiment with 4X Scour, 0X Visions, and 3X Looting - and just trust the deck's ability to extract graveyard value, while probably not being that much more vulnerable to grave hate. I suppose that's mostly a matter of preference, though. But if you ever get a playset of Snapcaster Mages, I'll come back and argue the point.
5 days ago
Cool list, especially at under $300 for a good, 3-color Grixis build. +1.
One thought: Thought Scour is probably slightly better than Serum Visions in this list. I wouldn't necessarily cut the Visions, but I'd try and run the 4th Scour (you might be able to get away with cutting 1 land). Scour is awesome because it's an instant, which means if you hold up blue mana for a counter, but your opponent doesn't make a significant move on their turn, you can convert that mana into value. Also, unlike Visions, Scour can be used as disruption (like when your opponent uses visions to set up a key land drop). But mostly, it's better than anything else in the deck at helping you get your delve spells out (and you have 6 - plus the Grave-happy Ghasts). Just food for thought.
6 days ago
Here's my take, because I've tested both quite a bit:
Young Pyromancer is better in a delver deck, which is where it looks like you're taking this build. It is much more proactive and can be quite effective when you're trying to race. To play with it effectively, you have to have lots of cheap cantrips so you can make a lot of tokens quickly. Pyromancer is a tempo card, and to play it you need to be playing a solid tempo deck. It does not play well in a deck focused on the long game, such as my original deck.
Vampire Nighthawk is more midrange oriented. It doesn't race well or build any tempo. It doesn't make fast kills, but adds turns to the game instead. He loves hand disruption and lots of removal. Perfect for stopping the aggro rush of affinity, but not what you want to see against Grixis Control. He is best in a midrange deck, such as my original deck.
For your deck, you'll have a much easier time playing normal delver on a budget, rather than Rocket Science. Sad, but true. You can most certainly still play Bloodghast in delver if you want, although it's not as good and takes some adjustments. Because delver is really built on Snapcaster Mage, an expensive card that's hard to replace, Ghast is a great option to run instead.
For your deck, I'd drop the Nighthawks all together and really go all out on delver tempo deck. 14-15 creatures is ideal for this. I would recommend 4 Delver, 2-4 Bloodghast, 3-4 Young Pyromancer, 2 Tasigur, and 2-3 Angler. How many of each creature is a matter of personal preference and what exactly you want to do.
The rest of your deck has to be built to work with your creature base. In delver, 4 Serum Visions is mandatory to flip Delver, smooth out lands, and just cantrip. If you have only 2-3 Ghast and either 4 Young Pyromancer or 3 Gurmag Angler, then Gitaxian Probe should probably be at 3. If you have 4 Ghast, then stick to 2. I don't recommend 3 Ghast because it's awkward. With 2 Ghast, you should run 4 Thought Scour and 0 Faithless Looting because Looting is card disadvantage. As a card, Faithless Looting itself is really best in a midrange deck because you have time to gain tons of value off of the Flashback. Thought Scour doesn't have any value later, but it breaks even on card advantage, which is much better when aiming for a shorter game. If you want to run 4 Bloodghast, then you should also run 4 Faithless Looting to increase the likelihood of being able to discard them.
Never play less than 4 Lightning Bolt. It's just that good.
The other good support cards you already have for the most part. Izzet Charm, Electrolyze, Kolaghan's Command, and Terminate. The main card you're missing for Delver is Remand. Run 2. It's the best tempo card you can have.
The last thing I'd add is a little more countermagic to the main. My midrange deck didn't like countermagic as much, but it's great in delver, in small amounts. Like, 4 mainboard counters in addition to your Remands. The popular options are Spell Pierce, Dispel, Izzet Charm, Mana Leak, and Spell Snare. I really like Countersquall, but I'm alone in that view. If you have 2 Ghast, go for 2 Izzet Charm, but if you have 4 Ghast, only run 1 Charm.
Well, that's a lot of direction. Good luck!
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Duel Decks: Jace vs. Vraska||Common|
- Enter the Infinite + Laboratory Maniac + Thought Scour
- Thought Scour + Unearth
- Thought Scour + Psychic Strike
- Thought Scour + Visions of Beyond
- Delver of Secrets + Thought Scour
- Set Adrift + Thought Scour
- Serum Visions + Gitaxian Probe + Thought Scour
- Set Adrift + Vile Rebirth + Thought Scour
- Dream Salvage + Thought Scour
- Hedron Crab + Mind Sculpt + Thought Scour
- Jace's Erasure + Thought Scour
- Thought Scour + Jace's Erasure
- Brainstorm + Thought Scour