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: Add to your mana pool.
: Add or to your mana pool. Underground River deals 1 damage to you.
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Underground River Discussion
1 week ago
1 week ago
Hey, you're using 21x ETB tapped lands. This is a lot, making the manabase really slow. To speed up budget manabases rely on basic lands and dual lands which have interaction with basic lands, check lands such as Rootbound Crag and tango lands such as Cinder Glade. Check lands and tango lands also have interaction with eachother which is very helpful. Budget manabases that use green are also better off playing more basics because they can be tutored for with land ramp spells such as Rampant Growth and Cultivate. Pain lands such as Underground River are also better than lands like Bad River.
In theory using the ETB tapped fetch lands such as Mountain Valley while slow can work with the tango lands such as Smoldering Marsh. The problem with the way you've set-up the manabase is you're not using enough basic lands, only 8, to make this interaction worth it. Even if you fetch a tango land it's still going to ETB tapped because it requires at least two basic lands in your control.
A playable budget five color manabase that has an equal amount of all colors is hard to construct therefore my advice is to pick two colors as your two most important colors and then splash the rest. Rely on artifact ramp such as Signets: Gruul Signet, Simic Signet and green land ramp spells, basic lands and ramp creatures such as Sylvan Caryatid to help to fix your colors. This means including more artifact ramp and cards that can fix your colors of mana than you would probably like, but is necessary for the deck to function.
I don't know what your Dragon decklist looks like so I can only use the original Dragon precon's manabase as reference. Looking at the original precon red is the most important color because a lot of Dragons have heavy red casting costs. Green is second and it's just as important as red because you want to cast land ramp spells in the early game which can not only ramp, but also fix colors of mana. Black is next, white and blue should just be splashes.
Here's a manabase for you to consider. The manabase focuses on green and red as the two most important colors and splashes the rest of the colors. This example $44 manabase has 16 basic lands and includes 23 green sources, 23 red sources, 16 black sources, 14 white sources and 14 blue sources with 6 lands which ETB tapped. It's set-up to take advantage of the interaction between basic lands, check lands and tango lands.
- 6x Mountain
- 5x Forest
- 3x Swamp
- 1x Plains
- 1x Island
- Command Tower
- Exotic Orchard
- Mana Confluence
- Crucible of the Spirit Dragon
- Haven of the Spirit Dragon
- Path of Ancestry
- Savage Lands
- Jungle Shrine
- Frontier Bivouac
- Evolving Wilds
- Terramorphic Expanse
- Rootbound Crag
- Sunpetal Grove
- Dragonskull Summit
- Clifftop Retreat
- Hinterland Harbor
- Karplusan Forest
- Canopy Vista
- Cinder Glade
- Smoldering Marsh
- Sunken Hollow
- Prairie Stream
I can further help you if you would like with the manabase, but I need to see the decklist your using the manabase with.
2 weeks ago
Caldera Lake seems like a pointless addition. It enters tapped and can only produce the 2 colors you're splashing at the cost of a life. I wouldn't add Caldera Lake, big drawbacks without much payoff.
As for the Demons. If you really want to go for a tribal deck, you're gonna have to remove most (If not all) creatures that don't share your tribal creature type. (I managed to make a deck that works only using 20 creatures (21 with Commander) that were only tribal correlated, so it is possible for you to try)
Here's a budget friendly 38 card landbase:
Crypt of Agadeem
Path of Ancestry (You will not be able to scry unless you play conspiracy. May I suggest changing Marchesa for Sol'kanar the Swamp King? Yes you lose the Dethrone and being able to return a card by default, but a Tribal deck should be lead by a tribal commander. Your choice entirely)
City of Brass (I don't like it, as it will still deal damage even with Chromatic Lantern in play, but your choice)
Duskmantle, House of Shadow (Put a demon into your gy, reanimate it, or the most obvious approach)
Feel free to make some changes, but these cards are cheap and will help your mana base (If you don't like Bojuka, replace it with a Swamp.)
2 weeks ago
Byuante Thanks again. I am aware the mana base is terrible and actually this is where I was thinking I could deal with the other issue I had. The deck really needs to be dethroning so that I can do some of the more messed up stuff I want to do. Black Market and my opponents somehow managing to play slower than me are what kept the deck going in the games I did well. The haste comment was just a quick this would be nice before I forget that I thought about it thing.
I'm looking at using
I have grown a distaste for the bounce lands. They will be the first things to go. I don't want to shrink my demon numbers too much but I'm thinking 15 down from 21 is still plenty. Which leaves 3 open spots if I added the pain lands and would have me at 37 lands. So Phyrexian Arena and Swiftfoot Boots. $10 for a land just feels wrong to me... After I improve the deck a bit and play some more I'll consider the shocks again but I don't want to pick them up for a deck and then pull said deck apart...
In the end the deck is trying to be a demon gimmick if I lose too much of that then the obvious bad choices I made like leaving out Chasm Skulker become questions of why did I do that without any answer.
2 weeks ago
Nice deck. Some thoughts/suggestions
cut Underground River and friends
add Underground Sea and friends
You're trying to run High Tide, so you need as many actual Islands as you can get.
cut Dragonskull Summit and friends
add Misty Rainforest etc
Same idea here. Also, you really don't want lands coming into play tapped in a deck built for combo if you can help it.
add Temple of the False God
add Ancient Tomb
These make the "free" spells negative mana cost.
Strongly consider Treachery as this is both removal and free storm count. It is also negative mana cost with a resolved High Tide.
Vendetta and Snuff Out might be better off as Dismember and perhaps Terminate or even Unsummon. Unsummon is as good as destroying when you're following up with a Wheel of Fortune.
Not sure the Traumatize / Past in Flames plan is worthwhile. This cost 7UUR + whatever you want to flash back. Doing it over multiple turns invites someone to flip up Rest in Peace or Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus.
Helm of Awakening is dangerous due to symmetry, but can lead to added explosiveness. Could experiment here with Semblance Anvil and similar.
Mystical Tutor usually just as good as vampy.
3 weeks ago
Cards added today increased the total deck price by ~ $8. The drop in price of Wanderwine Prophets and cutting Underground River opened up cost for some tutors, Gamble and Mystical Tutor. These $6 tutors add a lot of speed and versatility. Gamble is an unconditional tutor with a drawback that can actually help the reanimation theme by putting a card in the graveyard. Having an unconditional tutor is a huge upgrade with Archaeomancer and Wizards who can bounce her back to my hand to keep playing her and reusing Gamble. Since Augur of Bolas can help to find either of these tutors he's also been added. There's 24 cards that Augur can find which is on the low side, but he's also a Wizard; he can help in other ways. The cutting of River brings this deck to 34 lands as a result I've added the second Talisman. Nine one and two drop ramp, eight cheap draw, 34 lands and a 2.6 avg cmc is good for the deck to function very well.
I had to make a choice between cutting River or Reliquary Tower and I chose River because Tower's interaction with Azami, Lady of Scrolls is too good. I find myself wanting to get Azami into play as fast as I can because of the incredible draw power she brings. More times than not she's the first Wizard I try to reanimate or search for.
3 weeks ago
The lands are always important. I have also created a Mairsil list that I haven't posted yet, but I would like to recommend some cheap lands that can help a lot, and also some utility lands. I honestly don't know why you're not running a Command Tower. As for the double color lands that mostly don't come in tapped: Darkwater Catacombs, Shadowblood Ridge, Dragonskull Summit, Drowned Catacomb, Underground River, Shivan Reef, Sunken Hollow, Smoldering Marsh. As for the utility lands, you've got Hall of the Bandit Lord, Flamekin Village and Hanweir Battlements.
4 weeks ago
If you're not using Daze, then Counterspell is going to be stronger. In that case, I'd go with Darkslick Shores or Underground River. Drowned Catacomb isn't bad, but you really don't want to spend your first 2 turns playing Dimir Guildgates because you got stuck with double Drowned Catacomb.