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Doran_The_ButtFighter, I agree It's best to stay away from Marvel, this is not a Marvel deck. The main reason I mentioned Coup is because it gives us an effect that the deck currently doesn't have. Virtuoso and Hydra are other options for sure. I would learn more towards Virtuoso because it can generate more value with Thopters which have flying. Hydra could also be a sideboard card.
Are you thinking of including one of these cards main deck? If so what are you thinking about cutting for it? Right now I feel the main deck is pretty set with only Verdurous Gearhulk and Magma Spray as the flex spots.
A possible direction to go is to sideboard in Virtuoso when sideboarding out Skyrider Elf. I tend to take out some Skyrider Elf in matchups where I know Fatal Push is my opponent's main removal spell. I do this because wasting energy and a turn to fully converge Skyrider to just have it killed by Push for one mana is pretty bad.
Without having to use energy to converge Skyrider then even more energy is not used. Virtuoso is good vs Push because it's a 3 drop, revolt needs to be triggered before Push can kill it. Our opponent is not going to want to use Push to kill a 1/1 Thopter giving us an advantage. I could see 2-3x Virtuoso in the sideboard to start with and bring them in when Skyrider is taken out. It's possible that Virtuoso is also better than Magma Spray because it does make and use energy and that energy can produce tokens who can be blockers. Spray is here to combat aggro, but Virtuoso can also do this. Delay aggro with Thopters until we can Radiant Flames. Flames does kill Virtuoso and all Thopters though, that's a problem. Your thoughts?
May 26, 2017 9:03 p.m.
Doran_The_ButtFighter, thanks for the upvote.
Since adding Rogue Refiner the energy production is very good and I too have had games where a lot of energy is not used. Although, I would rather have a lot of extra energy then not enough. Not having to choose what I want to use energy on instead having enough for everything I want to do makes game play much smoother and more fun.
May 26, 2017 2:02 a.m.
I've done a swap of the number of Glorybringer and Verdurous Gearhulk. 4x Glorybringer gives me better odds to draw it and get it into play turn four or five. I've also increased the number of Mountain to 3x cutting 1x Forest to make room. Glorybringer is double red so having another red source that doesn't come into play tapped really helps.
The difference between the Dragon and Gearhulk is the Dragon's haste. Creature removal is good right now and I get more value faster out of the Dragon than Gearhulk. I've also found the Dragon to be much better than Gearhulk in both Mardu Vehicles and Zombie matchups, especially Mardu as a great way to deal with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Gearhulk is also an artifact, the Dragon isn't, which is relevant.
I was sideboarding a third Glorybringer, but I don't need to do that anymore, I cut it for a third Manglehorn. I like Manglehorn in both Marvel and Mardu Vehicles matchups, especially Mardu because it can kill Heart of Kiran and slow down Scrapheap Scrounger.
Small Summary, Sideboard Cards for Matchups (Look for a more in depth guide in the Sideboard Card Choices section soon):
- Marvel: 4x Negate, 2x Manglehorn and 2x Tireless Tracker. Negate is the best card in the matchup because it can counter Marvel as well as both Chandras. I need all four Negates because I want to at least have one turn four. Tracker comes in as a way to get some card advantage if I can disrupt Marvel. This deck has no way to stop Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.
- Zombies: 3x Radiant Flames, 1x Magma Spray. Flames and Spray are the best cards in the matchup. Spray because it can exile either Dread Wanderer, Relentless Dead or Scrapheap Scrounger. A heavy removal suite of 4x Spray, 4x Harnessed Lightning and 3x Flames is very potent and needed. Harnessed is important because it can kill Lord of the Accursed and/or large Diregraf Colossus, double Lord can make Zombies more than 3 power which gets around Flames. Sometimes I need to kill a Lord before I can sweep the board. Metallic Mimic is also a problem in this matchup it's best to kill it because it can make Zombies more than 3 power.
- Mardu Vehicles: 3x Manglehorn and 1x Magma Spray. This matchup is all about killing or delaying Heart of Kiran. Spray can exile Scrapheap Scrounger as well as kill a turn one Toolcraft Exemplar. Glorybringer although not a sideboard card is one of the best cards for the matchup because it can help me to stabilize being a terrific counter play to Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.
- Izzet Control: 4x Negate, 3x Tireless Tracker and 1x Manglehorn. Negate is to stop Glimmer of Genius, Sweltering Suns and protect Tracker. Glimmer is the card that puts Control very far ahead. Suns is the Control players sweeper of choice and it can wreck me if it resolves. Tracker is the card I want to see in this matchup because if I can protect it, it can out card advantage Control. Censor is something I have to look out for always be aware of needing an extra mana for my spells.
- Golgari Energy: 3x Tireless Tracker and 1x Rhonas the Indomitable some versions are playing Heart of Kiran if so 3x Manglehorn also. Fatal Push is the removal spell of choice from my opponent making 3 drops much better than 2 drops in this matchup. Tracker comes in as a way to gain card advantage and Rhonas can be a both an attacker and blocker, mostly a great blocker. Storing energy for Harnessed Lightning is very important because my opponent's creatures can get big.
May 25, 2017 8:33 a.m.
Randsome, Walking Ballista is very good with Winding Constrictor and seems like an auto include in a deck using the snake, but if you don't want to get Ballista's then you could use it's slots for anything really, Negate is even an option. Never / Return or Ruinous Path are fine in it's place, but I don't think you really need any more removal main deck, 4x Fatal Push and 3x Grasp of Darkness is enough. Aethersphere Harvester is good at pressuring Planeswalkers. Saying this I would definitely sideboard 1-2x Never or Path as some Planeswalker removal. I would also sideboard 4x Transgress the Mind which can hit any Planeswalker.
Some possible cards you could use in Ballista's place who go with the theme and with the snake are:
- Longtusk Cub
- Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
- Rogue Refiner
- Bristling Hydra
- Tireless Tracker
- Rhonas the Indomitable
As far as strengths and weaknesses of Sultai and Temur I think it really comes down to which kind of deck you want to play. Even though Sutali has energy I consider it more of a counters deck because the power of Winding Constrictor is in counters not energy. Temur is more of an energy deck that's also using counters, but energy is the main theme. If you like energy play Temur and if you like counters than play Sultai.
Sultai Strengths and Weaknesses:
- Better manabase having access to 7-8x fast lands that can make green mana.
- More powerful curve of Winding Constrictor, Rishkar, Peema Renegade and Verdurous Gearhulk. By itself a curve of Constrictor into Rishkar can be game winning.
- Better sideboard options for Marvel matchups and control matchups. Transgress the Mind and Negate can both stop Marvel. Transgress can hit Torrential Gearhulk.
- Less reliant on energy if keeping Elves.
- Constrictor is a huge target for removal and unfortunately the deck very much relies on him to be alive without him the power level drops a lot.
- Problematic removal options, other than Fatal Push all other removal has double black casting cost. Push is ok, but not great right now in Standard.
- No cheap removal that exiles the creature it kills.
- Not as versatile or as many creature options in black.
- Access to no three mana sweeper that does 3 damage to all creatures. Yahenni's Expertise is as close as it gets.
Temur Strengths and Weaknesses:
- Can still function without losing a key card in other words there's no Constrictor. Less reliant on a nice curve.
- More cards make and use energy. The energy theme is front and center.
- Magma Spray is a very good removal spell right now in Standard.
- Harnessed Lightning is unconditional creature removal that with energy can kill easier than Fatal Push.
- Access to three mana 3 damage to all creatures sweepers.
- Glorybringer adds an additional power level to the top end.
- Worst manabase having to use reveal lands from Shadows Over Innistrad which can be problematic at times.
- Worst sideboard options for Marvel and control matchups. Other than Negate and other counterspells.
- Relies much more on energy to overall function.
In my opinion red is better as the third color for this deck than black right now because of Magma Spray, Harnessed Lightning, Glorybringer and Radiant Flames. These cards do more for the deck than Winding Constrictor, Fatal Push, Grasp of Darkness and Transgress the Mind can. I like the combination of Spray and Harnessed over Push and Grasp because Spray can exile Scrapheap Scrounger and/or Dread Wanderer, especially Scrapheap because he's such a menace in Mardu. Spray also hits a ton of creatures in both Zombies and Mardu making it not just for the recursive creatures.
Creatures that Spray can't kill Harnessed can due to the amount of energy the deck can make. Glorybringer is great at pressuring or killing Planewalkers and gives me another flying threat. Putting counters on Glorybringer is also nasty fun. Flames in combination with Spray is very potent vs Zombies. I've found that I really need a sweeper to consistently beat Zombies because the battlefield can be flooded with them very fast. Red has access to two three mana sweepers that can deal 3 damage to all creatures, Flames and Sweltering Suns. Doing 3 damage is important because of Lord of the Accursed. Black has Yahenni's Expertise which can kill 3 power creatures, but it costs four mana instead of three. Flames can also only do 2 damage to each creature if I only use two different colors of mana to cast it. It's flexible this can be relevant as a one sided board wipe.
Push is a great removal spell, but the strong presence in Standard of both Aetherworks Marvel and Zombies takes it down a notch. Zombies wants you to spend a card to kill a single Zombie this is giving them an advantage. Spray is some what taking away this advantage even though I'm still spending a card to kill a single creature the creature is exiled which is relevant. Marvel plays all three drops except Servant of the Conduit and higher and very few creatures. Push is still excellent in the Mardu Vehicles matchup because it can kill Heart of Kiran, but so can Harnessed.
Thanks for the tips on using the stack. You're right I can't tap Rishkar, Peema Renegade the turn it's played to crew Aethersphere Harvester and then put a counter on Harvester with Rishkar's trigger. I would have to use another creature to first crew Harvester and then play Rishkar. I've been doing this Rishkar and Havester play for a while now and no one has said it's wrong, haha... My mistake is I didn't know that if an ETB trigger has to have a target(s) the target(s) must be declared the moment the trigger goes on the stack. I was declaring targets when the trigger resolved from the stack which is wrong.
May 22, 2017 1:45 a.m.
Hey Randsome, thanks for your feedback.
Rishkar, Peema Renegade and Aethersphere Harvester work together because both their abilities use the stack. Rishkar's ETB trigger and Harvester's crew activated ability both go on the stack. Crew is an activated ability. Once both abilities are on the stack I can choose what order they resolve. When a creature enters the battlefield it can be tapped to use another activated ability that requires a creature to be tapped such as crew. When Rishkar ETB before I resolve his trigger I can tap him to crew Harvester, the crew ability then also goes on the stack. Once both Rishkar's trigger and the crew of Harvester are on the stack I can order them to happen in any way I choose. Choosing to resolve the crew of Harvester on the stack first makes Harvester a creature. I can then resolve Rishkar's trigger second which lets me put a counter on Harvester since Harvester is now a creature.
The same thing happens with the stack when another Rishkar ETB when one is already on the battlefield. Both the legendary rule and Rishkar's ETB trigger go on the stack. I can choose which order I want them to happen. Choosing Rishkar's trigger first lets me put counters on other creatures even one of the Rishkars. Second I resolve the legendary rule which then kills one of my choice of Rishkar.
An updated Sultai Energy Elves list:
- 4x Servant of the Conduit
- 4x Sylvan Advocate
- 4x Skyrider Elf
- 4x Winding Constrictor
- 4x Rishkar, Peema Renegade
- 4x Verdurous Gearhulk
- 2x Walking Ballista
- 4x Attune with Aether
- 4x Fatal Push
- 3x Grasp of Darkness
- 2x Aethersphere Harvester
- 4x Aether Hub
- 4x Blooming Marsh
- 3x Botanical Sanctum
- 4x Forest
- 3x Swamp
- 1x Island
- 1x Hissing Quagmire
- 1x Lumbering Falls
May 20, 2017 8:21 p.m.
Glad I could help I like the changes you've made. I also play a very green deck, Energy Elves. It's not mono green, but green is the main color and one of the best mono green aggressive curves it uses is turn two Sylvan Advocate, turn three Rishkar, Peema Renegade into turn four Verdurous Gearhulk. I'm a big fan of Rishkar for both ramp and green aggressive strategies especially with Advocate because of his vigilance letting me attack with him and ramp in the same turn. I recommend trying to fit some Rishkar in.
Tracker makes a huge difference it's a amazing how she can pull you ahead in a game if she survives for you to crack even a single clue. I've had games where all I've used are Tracker and Rhonas they make a great team, draw value combined with a lot of attack power. Tracker turns on Rhonas to attack or block with only cracking a single clue.
May 12, 2017 4:36 a.m.
You're forgetting one the best green creatures Tireless Tracker. 3-4x Tracker split up between main deck (I would main deck at least 2x Tracker) and sideboard will help a lot. Going up to 3-4x Tracker will help in Control as well as Midrange matchups giving you some much needed draw from clues. Tracker gives you repeatable draw as well as a threat who needs to be dealt with. Other cards for draw I recommend are Mouth / Feed or Lifecrafter's Bestiary.
8x mana dorks is too many consider replacing one of them with another green 2 drop. You aren't using an energy strategy except for Servant of the Conduit I would cut Servant for another 2 drop either Sylvan Advocate, Lambholt Pacifist or Duskwatch Recruiter Flip. They all have positives: Advocate is an excellent defensive early game and can become a 4/5 when you have six lands for two mana, Pacifist works wonderfully with Rhonas the Indomitable and Duskwatch is another mana sink who can get you creatures. I recommend Advocate. One the best things green has are it's 2 drops I would take advantage of this.
Using 11x protection spells, 4x of Blossoming Defense and Hapatra's Mark is way too much for the main deck. You're going to have a lot of draws that are all protection spells and no creatures to use them on. In other words a lot of dead draws. Blossoming is the best out of all them I would keep it and cut or move some of the rest to the sideboard.
Attune with Aether is not really doing anything because mana or energy are not issues I would replace it with Oath of Nissa because it can find you either a land or a creature. In fact I would main deck 4x Oath of Nissa for these very reasons. A turn one Oath is very good when playing mana dorks to help you find one to play turn two. If you already have a mana dork in hand it can help you to find a 4 drop to play turn three using the mana dork.
Some sideboard card suggestions:
- Tireless Tracker: great draw and is a huge problem your opponent must deal with.
- Mouth / Feed mass draw most of your creatures are 3 power.
- Walking Ballista colorless damage, way to kill or hurt Planeswalkers.
- Prey Upon or Nature's Way: removal in green, good with Rhonas for midrange matchups.
- Bristling Hydra: you're not using energy, but this guy is still good with Rhonas and vs Control.
- World Breaker: big dude who can kill an artifact or enchantment and has reach to defend against fliers.
- Nissa, Vital Force: recursion of your creatures as well as being a great card to help you recover from a board wipe.
- Nissa, Voice of Zendikar: good in Midrange matchups to make your creatures bigger than your opponents, creates blockers.
- Clip Wings: removal for fliers such as Glorybringer, Archangel Avacyn Flip and Heart of Kiran
- Appetite for the Unnatural: can destroy Cast Out or any artifact.
- Lifecrafter's Bestiary: more repeatable draw in green.
Good luck with your deck.
May 11, 2017 7:56 a.m.
I like the idea of this deck, +1
I recommend adding more control in the early game to survive. I think you need to increase the control theme here with counterspells, removal and draw; less creatures other than the combo and more control. Control the early game with these cards and then win the game by setting up Eldrazi Displacer, Angel of Sanctions and Panharmonicon. The control aspect theme should be used to buy you time to set-up the combo. Adding more control means adding more blue, but I think this will benefit the deck.
You want to slow down your opponent which gives you time to set-up the combo I think Censor and Essence Scatter will help with this. Even if your opponent knows you're playing Censor they still have to be careful in playing their spells, they have to play around Censor which in turns buys you time in a game. Buying you even a turn to Fumigate seems good.
Counting on drawing Lone Rider Flip and Blessed Alliance together each game is not really a viable strategy to stay alive. Rider is not a playable 2 drop because of his 1 toughness. Even though he has first strike he's only good when he flips which you need to be playing a lot more life gain than Blessed Alliance and Gisela, the Broken Blade for that too happen consistently. There are too many perfect draw scenarios that have to line up to make Rider worth a spot. Wasting a card, Alliance, just to flip Rider seems very counter productive, not what Control wants to be doing.
Consider cutting Rider for removal that targets. Blessed Alliance is fine, but not as your only early removal. I recommend Immolating Glare because it can kill Vehicles, Heart of Kiran and you can target which creature you want to kill. Alliance is good to combat the new Gods, but since it doesn't target it's a liability vs everything else especially with all the Scrapheap Scroungers being used to fight Control. Cast Out is also very good removal in white although it's not early game.
You're playing too many 5 drops without having any ramp. Angel of Sanctions and Fumigate are the best 5 drops here I would cut all the others. Angel is part of the combo and Fumigate keeps you alive. You want to draw either of these cards much more than any other 5 drops.
Gisela, the Broken Blade I know she's an angel, but she's out of place because you intend to Fumigate turn five. Consider cutting her for Cast Out because it lets you kill something that Fumigate can't such as Gideon, Ally of Zendikar giving you more control over the game. Another 4 drop to playtest is Hedron Archive it gives you ramp and two colorless sources of mana for Eldrazi Displacer. A turn four Archive makes it much easier to cast Fumigate turn five if you have it in hand. It can also give you some draw if it's no longer needed. The combo is very mana intensive which Archive helps with.
Always Watching also looks out of place because you aren't using enough early game creatures, 1 and 2 drops to get the power benefits from the enchantment. Consider cutting it for more control cards, cards that can either help you set-up the combo or keep you alive to do so which Watching doesn't do.
Being in Azorious colors gives you access to some of the best cycling control cards, Censor, Cast Out and Irrigated Farmland these cards can help you better control a game and/or help you to draw into the combo.
Adding more control doesn't take away from the blink aspect of the deck; the combo is blink and that's all the blink you really need.
Good luck with your deck.
May 7, 2017 11:31 p.m.
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