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Citanul Flute Discussion
1 day ago
idiot_taco first of all: ltb and etb are short terms for leave the battlefield and enter the battlefield and involve permanents that have an effect when they enter or leave the battlefield/die.
Jumping straight to your 2. Comment: I believe the Citanul Flute is a bit slow + you are quite heavy on tutors already. You could swap some of them for straight draw. Necropotence , Phyrexian Arena or even Dark Prophecy (if you plan to go with a sacrifice-heavy strategy).
Out of all the decks I've seen, I've liked this approach the most. Maybe it'll help you a bit:
https://deckstats.net/decks/107983/1096910-athreos-aristocrats/en (hope the link from the competition is allowed here)
1 day ago
SirHerpaderp If there's any big changes you'd like me to make, feel free to let me know and I'll look over it and change it. If you'd have any small mana cost creatures you'd like to recommend, please do so and specify me something I should cut off. This would be quite good with my Citanul Flute .
1 week ago
Not seen the combo line you are running before but honestly the combo line below that I run is a lot faster and has minimal set up and minimal use of mana.
Fetch Paradox Engine with Arcum-> cast a spell to untap Arcum Dagsson -> fetch Citanul Flute -> fetch a 0 cast artifact creature with flute -> cast creature for engine trigger (you can now fetch as much as you need now limited by number of 0 drops your deck runs) -> fetch with Arcum Basalt Monolith tap for 3 mana -> fetch with Arcum Rings of Brighthearth you now have infinite colorless mana -> fetch with Flute Walking Ballista -> cast Ballista for 2000 mana win by removing counters.
Arcum is a lot of fun to play and I'm glad I built the deck. But Arcum is also the kinda general you either build well and win quickly or you end up playing archenemy and losing. Even built well he sometimes gets hated out. Resolving Arcum can be the hardest part of the deck once the other players figure out what you are doing. Pay attention to what other decks typically run and watch out for players with untapped mana especially blue players.
Check out the below link it will help with the deck. It's where I got started. A lot of the expensive cards can be cut and the core combo will still run.
3 weeks ago
Citanul Flute is a good card for Hydra decks. If you're going to bother with the Urza lands, you'll want to run Hour of Promise , so you actually stand a chance of assembling Tron. Not really sure what Reflecting Pool is doing in a deck with no double red costs.
I think there's a lot of room for general card improvement, as well. Run Sakura-Tribe Elder over Darksteel Ingot. Instead of Naturalize, Cindervines and Destructive Revelry get in additional damage. If you're willing to give up Instant-speed, Hull Breach and Gleeful Sabotage hit multiple targets. Krosan Grip is an EDH staple, since it can't be responded to. Nature's Claim is cheaper.
Without cards that care about Basics, you shouldn't be running Evolving Wilds in a 2-color deck. Any dual is better, although, I don't know what you're thinking only running 33 lands. This deck should be running 36-38 lands, easy. Only cEDH decks run that few lands, and it's because they don't expect to need a 4th or 5th land drop before the game is over.
1 month ago
This is a pretty solid list for being new to Magic. You even have the Citanul Flute secret hydra tech. Bravo.
1 month ago
1 month ago
I was intrigued and looked for your list, but I didn't see it on TappedOut. We should compare, at the very least!
In any case, sorry it took so long to write this response. I wanted to try and break down what I think are your main points, and, well, I apologize if I misinterpreted you, but here's what I got out of your comment:
The way I read it, it looks like you're saying the deck needs to be slower. This reading is a little unfair on my part, possibly a little too overly hostile, but, I mean, I can't fathom a turn-six kill when I play a card like Peregrination on turn four. Like, that's just not going to happen. And if you're arguing that the deck becomes more able to grind, well, I have two problems with that:
First, I guess I don't know your meta entirely, but do non-optomized tables not just gun for Sasaya immediately? Like, even just reading what she does kind of sets off some alarm bells, doesn't it? I know everytime I play with somebody new, whenever I get to the "So if I have six Forests out, they all tap for six green" bit, the inevitable response is something akin to "Oh, that's not good." And then if the combo does work, all the more incentive to get targeted next game, or next week, or whenever I play the deck again. That's why I aim for speed above everything else, because if I don't, well, I just get run over.
Second, the methods you suggest of becoming more resilient don't really work? Like, yeah, Howling Mine has its uses, but I'd really rather not give my opponents more cards to beat me with, because I'm still the target. It's also why I'm skeptical of Oath of Druids . It's not that I probably won't get free stuff, it's that other people get free stuff first, and when Sasaya's on top of the hill -- a position the deck's going to be in until it's dead -- all that free stuff is headed right at me. I figure you disagree with me about this -- I mean, you did talk about how people want to deal with other people's threats -- but that really hasn't been my experience.
Incidentally, these are the reasons I cut utility lands as well. They do have a use. Of course they have a use. But that use is kind of marginal when just playing them makes the deck slower. If they were named "Forest" or "Snow-Covered Forest", we might be talking, but they're not. The only instance I can imagine where that wouldn't be the case is hitting one off of Oracle of Mul Daya , and that seems kind of marginal at best. I've mentioned this before, but sometimes I'm not even sure Scrying Sheets belongs in this deck.
But, speaking of Utility lands, let's talk Reliquary Tower . Or, I guess more specifically, "no max hand size" effects and why I think they're bad/overrated:
So the consensus as far as I understand it in "real EDH" (read: non-Sasaya) circles is that these cards (Reliquary Tower specifically, though I imagine Spellbook and Library of Leng have similar reasoning (at least Thought Vessel is a mana rock)) are kind of win-more. Like, there is definitely the feel-bad psychological effect of casting a big Blue Sun's Zenith , not finding an outlet for all those cards, and having to discard all the way back down to seven, effectively wasting all that mana, but if you think about it, at the end of the day you're still keeping seven really good cards. So that plus the fact that the graveyard is much more of a resource in EDH than almost anywhere else, and the "no max hand size" effect starts to lose its luster.
But let's talk about Sasaya specifically. As you mentioned, seven lands is a lot of hand space. Under normal circumstances, that means you'll only really have room for one payoff spell, so it better be a good one (put a pin in this idea, we'll come back to it in a bit). But there are alternatives. Last paragraph, I talked about the feel-bad of not getting to keep that big hand, but remember how that big hand happened in the first place: a Blue Sun's Zenith. More specific to my point: an instant.
Continuing this thought experiment a little further, let's ask why a player might cast a 7+ card draw spell in the first place. One might imagine that a player casts such a draw spell hoping for an effect that removes their hand limit, but that's not the only possibility. They could also be looking for a specific combo -- a way to end the game. Compare that to Sasaya's instant-speed land searchers (a special shout-out to Yavimaya Elder !). In Sasaya's case, the payoff effect we're looking for is already in the Command Zone.
In my opinion, therefore, the deck doesn't need its hand limit removed because there are enough effects that ignore that limitation, and cards like Expedition Map that can find these cards aren't actually that good.
But the "why" for that specific claim is a different topic entirely. Let's talk about it!
In your post, you mentioned that cards like Cultivate , Kodama's Reach , and Peregrination were all "ideal ramp spells" for a Sasaya player, as they also added a land to the hand, therefore ending up card-positive. Now, I already dismissed Peregrination out of hand for being too slow, but it's important to include it here as well because I feel it has the same other trappings that might encourage a Sasaya player to play these cards. In short, I posit that these cards are, in fact, card-neutral at best.
This applies to Renegade Map et al. as well, but I'm just going to focus on the sorceries just for simplicity's sake. Let's examine a typical goldfish turn. First, the draw step. Obviously, they're at plus one card. Then, the goldfish plays a land, removing a card, then playing a non-land, which is minus another. If that non-land is a Cultivate effect, that only adds one card back, which leaves the goldfish more or less where they started. Because ramp becomes negligible once Sasaya flips (while there is certainly a difference between, say, eightteen starting mana and twenty-eight, I find it's not enough to worry about, and the difference between twenty-eight and forty is even less), that means the goldfish is spending three mana on nothing much at all (as a sidenote, you might notice Nissa's Pilgrimage and Evolution Charm in the deck, which seem to contradict this point. However, both of these cards have occasional upside potential. It doesn't always happen (and, in Pilgrimage's case, certainly never on Turn 3), but circumstances for it do exist, so they keep their slots).
The solution some Sasaya players offer is to stop making land drops, but that seems so tempo-negative to me. I feel that, if I do continue making land-drops, eventually I'll be able to cast these giant threats without the help of Sasaya, and could easily win the game that way.
Lastly, before I get into specific cards, I wanted to talk about the ramp spells I do play. Namely Azusa, Lost but Seeking and similar effects. I already mentioned the speed aspect of my build, and these cards are a part of that. To be more specific, these cards are in the deck to turn cards like Chord of Calling and Citanul Flute into more ramp if necessary, which, when you're going for a Sasaya flip and a kill in the same turn, is worth having in the toolbox. But these cards also function as pseudo-alternate win-conditions. As I alluded to just a paragraph above, the only difference between tapping ten lands for a Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and tapping one or two is how smug the caster gets to feel. But the caster still gets an eldrazi in either method, so I don't think the difference in smugness is very big.
So now we come back to that pin I made earlier. Let's talk card specifics. Now, I've tried to go through a lot of these already, sifting through to get at your main points, but there are some notable stragglers, so let's take a look:
Summer Bloom : I've tried it. The problem is, because it's a one-shot effect, it's way too dead pre-flip. Azusa and her kin are both tutorable and stick around, so they're just better.
Skyship Weatherlight : This and Book of Rass are my two favorite suggestions, and I definitely want to try playing around with them on paper instead of just theorycrafting. If there's anything you take from this too-long screed, I want to thank you for bringing these cards to my attention.
Goblin Cannon : This was suggested before and I didn't really dismiss it off-hand, though I did ask "What do I cut?" I didn't have a good answer, then, though maybe it's -1 Akroma's Memorial , Hydra Broodmaster , and Kamahl, Fist of Krosa for +1 Goblin Cannon , Book of Rass , and Skyship Weatherlight ? I'm still hesitant because Kamahl at least is fine pre-flip (Broodmaster is bad yes, but not terrible. At least, I think there's a difference there), not to mention in my meta, effects like Crawlspace and Ensnaring Bridge are less popular than Leyline of Sanctity or even Aegis of the Gods . I guess there I'll have to test and see. You're right, by the way, about Akroma's Memorial being pretty dead 99% of the time, but it's the best haste outlet, and specific kill's been good enough for me.
If I didn't mention a card here, it's because it obviously is different from either my strategy as I've listed in various places, or is implicitly against the deckbuilding philosophy of my particular list. Or maybe I missed it, and you can bring it up if/when you respond.
In any case, thanks for the comment, and keep fighting the mono-green combo fight!
2 months ago
Hydras are fun, for sure. Here's my build of Rosheen for ideas: Hydra Hug. It's group hug, so some of the choices will be a little odd, but you'll find good stuff for hydra tribal like Citanul Flute . I'd also advise checking out the tribal and Rosheen pages on EDHREC, as well as the GR page under the commander tab to see the staples of the format in your colors and for your commander.
Citanul Flute occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%