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Tap: Add (1) to your mana pool.
(1), Tap: Untap target land.
Deserted Temple Discussion
4 days ago
Yo DavePeachtree there are plenty of ways to go infinite mana in dimir colors, i'll list a couple for ya.
- Isochron Scepter / Dramatic Reversal - Essentially when you have enough mana rocks producing mana you will be able to make infinite copies of Dramatic Reversal which leads into infinite mana. If you have color mana within those rocks, you can go infinite colored mana.
- Rings of Brighthearth / Basalt Monolith - Infinite colorless mana, requires mana before you can start to copy the untap effect of Basalt Monolith.
- Rings of Brighthearth + Cabal Coffers + Deserted Temple - Requires 6 Swamps to start netting mana, copy the untap effect of Deserted Temple to go infinite black mana.
- Grim Monolith / Basalt Monolith + Power Artifact - Infinite Colorless Mana.
- Grand Architect / Pili-Pala - Infinite Blue Mana.
- Dark Ritual / Cabal Ritual + Isochron Scepter + Paradox Engine - Infinite Black Mana.
- Cloudstone Curio + Cloud of Faeries / Peregrine Drake / Palinchron / Great Whale + Land that taps for ~2 mana - Infinite Mana.
That's just a small list from the top of my head but there are plenty of infinite mana combos that synergizes with each other. Hope that helps!
1 week ago
While on paper Deserted Temple seemed like a good addition for mana fixing, the only real synergy it has in the deck is untapping a Cabal Coffers with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth . Deserted Temple generally works a lot better when paired alongside lands like City of Traitors or Scorched Ruins but since this deck doesn't play either of those options it is a prime candidate for cutting. The most likely replacement is another basic Forest . Vesuva covers the same angle, but with far more flexibility.
Worm Harvest is another candidate for replacement. In a grand total of one game I have cast this spell, and the advantage is that it can be reused from the graveyard but unfortunately it is slow strategy (even for this deck) and is an inefficient way of getting land into the graveyard even if that becomes the main reason for using it in the first place.
More and more I find myself falling out of love with Wayward Swordtooth . Early game it provides some slight ramp, but ultimately a 5/5 that doesn't block effectively for Lord Windgrace until we get city's blessing is underwhelming. Especially in that critical 3-drop where we would otherwise want to cast an Azusa, Lost but Seeking for even more land drop potential (especially with Crucible of Worlds ) or Harrow for mana fixing.
I've also had a change of heart of Journey to Eternity Flip. This has mainly become tech against sacrifice-based strategies such as Sheoldred, the Whispering One or any deck playing Grave Pact / Dictate of Erebos .
Another few additions to the maybe-board that I've seen played across a few other Lord Windgrace decks are:
The primary issue with Chandra, Torch of Defiance is that her uptick for quasi-card advantage can exile an essential land with no chance to bring it back, but she does represent another win condition with her ultimate (even if it is slow). If you are only using Chandra for her mana uptick, I think that it's a waste as a 4-mana ramp spell. Whereas Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip provices something the deck really likes doing: ramping or drawing cards. The downside of this Nissa is that her downtick is not fantastic, but I guess it provides a blocker to help protect her or Lord Windgrace . Further her ultimate (turning 6 lands into 6/6s) leaves lands vulnerable, but also represents a potential game-winning swing *(note that this does not give the lands haste so this has absolutely no synergy with anything that brings land back from the graveyard to the battlefield or making extra land drops as they would be subject to summoning sickness and would not even be able to tap for mana if you were planning of using it for Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire ).
4 weeks ago
4 weeks ago
Made several edits to the deck definitely got the Craterhoof Behemoth as expected, added Torment of Hailfire as a solid win condition, and also some infinite mana with Deserted Temple , and Rings of Brighthearth .
Also been collecting foils along the way because T'Challa wants to look pretty.
As always comments, likes, suggestions, critiques are welcome.
1 month ago
I am also considering finding space for Scavenger Grounds .
Just to quickly touch on the other cards you listed:
I'm not a huge fan of Sequestered Stash . Funnily enough, self mill is not great in Saffi. Because of her ability, most of the time you want stuff to hit the graveyard via the battlefield. And unless you hit one of a very small number of actual recursion (read "combo") pieces, you have stuff just sitting in your yard where it can get removed pretty easily. Not to mention I don't like the randomness. By all means try it out, but it's not my kind of card.
Deserted Temple is fun but without packing all the land search cards that the other list runs, I think a colour producing land would do more.
Wirewood Lodge is cool, but I think it is much more at home in a Selvala deck. There's only really two cards it boosts in the is list.
Wirewood Symbiote / Scryb Ranger are cool, but againI think are stronger with a tap commander. The beauty of Quirion Ranger was that with Yisan you could go verse 1 then straight into 2 and combo next turn (depending on board state). But with Scryb Ranger it replaces the Priest fetch which is the cornerstone of the combo.
As a general rule I have tried to avoid cards like Staff of Domination as there are only a few infinite mana outlets and outside of those they can be clunky. Maybe if I looked to add Vizier of Remedies + Devoted Druid as well, but I don't want to saturate the deck with non-overlapping combo.
Let me know how proxying goes - I have run a bunch of goldfish hands with the other list (I actually have that one in paper) and playing aggressively (because goldfish) I was able to see combo between turn 5 and 7 pretty consistently. The deck will always be slower than a deck with access to blue/black, but that's the price you pay I guess. But I would be keen to know how it goes for you.
1 month ago
That's absolutely fair, enpc. Obviously I can only suggest how I'd imagine these builds to be done. Though I played a brief stint with selesnya Selvala which was very fun, but far too high risk (though ymmv). To that end, the following are some busted includes for speeding up your combo:
Arbor Elf - before running Voyaging Satyr this card does mostly the same for cheaper. Earthcraft - this with any saffi loop will let you generate infinite mana - pretty nice - considering you often need that juicy burst of mana. Plus it's also an efficient accelerator for the cost.
Runic armasaur - One of the greatest draw-sources in green (besides sylvan library) - this is an incredibly efficient piece that just draws cards from most deck styles aside from storm. Likely to be another meta-include but definitely worth considering.
At any rate: I'm going to proxy this deck up and test it out some in my cEDH pods soon, so I'll let you know how the hands feel.
1 month ago
Not to beat a dead horse, but I thought I'd bring up Shirei again (and my deck specifically, The Recursion Nightmare), just because I've actually changed it around a fair bit since last time. Workhorse , Harvester of Souls , Heap Doll , Myr Sire , Diabolic Revelation , Homeward Path , Mindslaver , Arcbound Reclaimer , Sorin Markov , Dictate of Erebos , and Coffin Queen are all out in favor of Midnight Reaper , Mausoleum Secrets , Skyscanner , Dusk Legion Zealot , Sensei's Divining Top , Cabal Stronghold , Petrified Field , Burglar Rat , Liliana of the Veil , Sanguine Bond , and Exquisite Blood .
The wincons are stronger, the mana curve is lower (and more balanced), the cabal-tron package is now super-redundant (with Cabal Coffers , Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Vesuva , Deserted Temple , Petrified Field , Cabal Stronghold , and Expedition Map ), the stax effects are stronger, and the utility spells are cheaper. I'd say the deck has gotten at least 12% better, which, admittedly, goes against what I said ealier about the deck being almost perfect (though, in my defense, I hadn't yet taken a good look at some of the cards they've been printing recently--that's the great thing about Shirei, he only gets better the more worthless black commons they release).
I might take out the sanguine bond + exquisite blood wincon for Desecrated Tomb and Torment of Hailfire . Desecrated Tomb is more value, but obviously not really a wincon unless things are going way too well for me, and Torment of Hailfire isn't nearly as straightforward as Exsanguinate , but they might be better, anyhow.
Also, I still stand by Damnation --especially now that I'm playing Midnight Reaper and Dusk Legion Zealot , my life total is kind of a precious resource--sure, toxic deluge might be worth it anyhow, but it also kills my commander (read: I get my board state back after a damnation), so it's not strictly worse--though, I might consider playing deluge over Oblivion Stone , even though that card is my one way of dealing with problem enchantments, for instance.
Oh, and, I considered adding Pitiless Plunderer , but, again, the list is really tight, and I'd rather have Black Market over him, as I don't need more than one color of mana, the mana from Black Market accumulates, and it triggers whenever anything dies (relevant with Grave Pact ).
There are probably still better Shirei decks out there that still wouldn't qualify him for tier 3, but, frankly, even given a casual glance, tier 3 could easily be split up into multiple tiers (or just not have so many commanders crammed in it, and maybe we add a new bottom tier). I mean, Ghost Council of Orzhova and Ambassador Laquatus probably shouldn't be in the same category as Aminatou, the Fateshifter and Oloro, Ageless Ascetic , for instance. All the same, just in case these somehow weren't already obvious, let me detail a few of the more interesting interactions Shirei has with some of the dorks in this deck:
Mesmeric Fiend has an O-ring trick going on where, if we sacrifice him before his first ability resolves, the second ability triggers and does nothing, then we exile a card from our opponent's hand permanently. Doing that every turn with a sac outlet can be pretty good, and if you do it for long enough, you'll have everyone topdecking. I used to play Brain Maggot in this vein, but later learned that that works differently--it's all wrapped up into one ability, so if he dies before it resolves, during resolution, we take a card, the game sees that it's dead, then we immediately return it to their hand. Not very good, obviously.
Coffin Queen has a slightly different but effectively equivalent O-ring trick--if she's sacrificed before her ability resolves, the ability resolves, but since she's dead, the game doesn't remember her as an object and the delayed trigger of the ability can never happen, so we keep the creature permanently. When Coffin Queen comes back, she is, of course, a new object with a different timestamp.
Oh, and, in case this one wasn't obvious, cards like Mindless Automaton work with Shirei because their power is 1 or less when they enter the graveyard, thus triggering Shirei's ability, and their power doesn't become more than 1 until they've already entered the battlefield, as per layering rules.
1 month ago
NoOneOfConsequence I actually did playtest your deck once (I know, it isn't a great sample size by any means), yet many cards are an issue. I apologize, I really want to like a deck you post, just to not make this a dramafest, but I can't say a bad deck is good. Damnation and Wrath don't need to be put into the deck at all.
Here is a full list of cards that are particularly overpriced, and where each card I think is bad or could be better fits, if you truely believe that I can't evaluate it fairly:
Doomwake Giant - Interesting repeatable board wipe, a meta-dependent inclusion though, not good for the average cEDH meta, but does have a place in some lists. I'd drop, but could imagine many arguments for it's inclusion.
Ghostly Prison - anti-attacks, which just rarely comes into play outside of kiki-lines and the sort, a strange meta-dependent inclusion, but I coudl much less justify this one.
Karmic Justice - Cool card, but often enchantment removal comes in the form of bounce or exile, and so this effect feels very off.
Vindicate - 3 mana remove 1 thing is a lot of wasted mana, easy drop.
No Mercy - Really a lot of attack-hate, strange for a stax list with a commander that generates blockers. Easy drop at a 4 mana do nothing enchantment.
Knowledge Pool - I get the Eidolon of Rhetoric / Rule of Law combo with it, but many decks have better value engines than Daxos, or can respond by killing one of the pieces, or can kill Daxos. These make this combo rarely an easy way to finish the game, requiring a ton of setup/backup that survives the lock. I think better options exist.
Sigil of the Empty Throne - A slow, 5 mana do nothing enchantment, it takes forever to get this going, easy drop.
Sphere of Safety - This much creature-attack hate? How much do you need? 1 card is often too much with Daxos in the CZ, but you run... including sweepers... like 11? Wow. Your meta must be all Edric and Blood Pod, maybe 1 Kess Twin, nah, just all Edric decks.
Black Market - maybe in a meta with 50 Edric decks. Outside of that, easy drop.
Land Tax - should run the Geddon/Ravages package or leave this out.
Mesa Enchantress - Slow card draw on a weak creature is just removal bait, this deck has better cards for the slot. Harder drop.
Phyrexian Arena - A lot of math goes into why this card is generally pretty bad. Inefficient and weak in most circumstances, and needs almost 5 unimpeded turns to get enough value to be okay. Better cards for the slot.
Cabal Coffers - big mana, not worth it outside of ANS.
Vesuva - copying a land to enter tapped leaves you in a lack of mana. Weak card.
Command Beacon - easy drop, weak card.
Deserted Temple - Easy drop, weak card.
Strip Mine - Good card, not here.
Temple of Silence - scry is weak when you lose due to not having mana, easy drop
Kor Haven - Easy Drop, never gonna use that ability
Plains x4 - Not great at Fixing
New inclusions (Total drops are at 42)
Base inclusions: Fellwar Stone , Prismatic Lens , Thought Vessel , Everflowing Chalice , Caves of Koilos , Command Tower , City of Brass , Mana Confluence , Exotic Orchard , Cavern of Souls , Gemstone Caverns , Gemstone Mine , and Tarnished Citadel
Total real cards left to put in: 29
Thorn of Amethyst , Thalia, Guardian of Thraben , Trinisphere , Tangle Wire , Sphere of Safety , Damping Sphere , Fragmentize , Aura of Silence , Dismember , Lotus Petal , Dark Ritual , Kataki, War's Wage , Crucible of Worlds , Bottomless Pit , Oppression , Liliana of the Veil , Static Orb , Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Ethersworn Canonist , Aven Mindcensor , Torpor Orb , Planar Void , Grafdigger's Cage , Ensnaring Bridge (just for your meta), Dark Confidant , Containment Priest , Chalice of the Void , Sanctum Prelate , Alms Collector
That would be the deck.
Deserted Temple occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.37%