Blue Sun's Zenith
Target player draws X cards. Shuffle Blue Sun's Zenith into its owner's library.
|Want (5)||MrMittensSr , Corpse_Casanova , Brianne , Zaboumafool , pikupstyks|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||Rare|
|Commander Anthology (CM1)||Rare|
|Commander 2015 (C15)||Rare|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Rare|
|Mirrodin Besieged (MBS)||Rare|
|Mirrodin Besieged: Mirran (MBM)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Blue Sun's Zenith Discussion
1 week ago
Now that you have a smaller list you can work on rounding out your deck strategy. As well as making adjustments needed to help your deck win games.
First, the elephant in the room; People are not pleased if If you can create infinite mana in a deck, but then cannot win on the turn you can do it. Or worse, don't even have any direct way of using that mana to win the game.
You need to add at least 1 way to win with infinite mana and you need ways to find it reliably every game you play. Infinite mana by itself cannot win a game. So you need to add cards like any of the following:
Winning with Artifacts you can find with Tinker: cards like Walking Ballista, Rocket Launcher, Goblin Cannon, Whetwheel, or using something like Staff of Domination and a creature that taps to damage or mill.
Even Ambassador Laquatus.
Just add a couple copies of any of these chards to the deck so that when you find yourself with infinite mana you can win the game immediately.
1 week ago
Never got a notification for this for some reason hmmmmm.. I might be a bit late but I'm definitely happy to help. :^)
Starting with your lands, they look pretty solid. This is SUPER nitpicky, but Path of Ancestry doesn't feel like a good fit here. This deck isn't exactly a tribal, and it only has 7 cards it can scry off of. It may give you any color you need, but the coming in tapped bit would make me steer clear. The decision is totally up to you though because it isn't necessarily a bad card, but just keep in mind I'm really finicky when it comes to mana coming in tapped lol. Alchemist's Refuge and Emergence Zone might be fun picks. Dropping 1000 1000/1000 Oozes or Wurms on your turn is certainly good, but even better would be your opponent's end step. >:^)
Your ramp might need a little more focusing between the auras, dorks, and rocks. I might recommend a few more rocks in Talisman of Curiosity and Talisman of Resilience, but I think auras are going to be your focus considering your untap synergies, so more cards like Wild Growth, Wolfwillow Haven, Overgrowth, and Verdant Haven would make for nice additions. That being said, I think the dorks should probably come out, along with maybe your more expensive auras Dawn's Reflection and Market Festival. Ramp cards that in my opinion definitely need to come out are Heartbeat of Spring and Dictate of Karametra purely because of their symmetry. Group hug effects like these are super dangerous, and I really don't think you need them in order to pull off your strat. That being said, I think you should cut Tidal Barracuda for similar reasons. Giving people flash is risky, even if they can't cast stuff on your turn.
Card draw suggestions I would make for now would be to consider targeted X draw spells like Blue Sun's Zenith and Stroke of Genius instead of Mind Spring, as they can also be used with infinite mana to deck your opponents. Brainstorm is almost always a good addition. I also think cutting Gadwick, the Wizened wouldn't be a bad move. He's difficult to cast outside of having infinite blue mana and he doesn't really have the best synergy with the rest of your deck.
For your removal I would suggest perhaps adding in some lower CMC options like Pongify or Rapid Hybridization as nice cheap spot removal. Dismember or Tragic Slip are also nice black options that get around indestructible. Any removal will do, really, and so it's again all up to you. I just like these a lot.
I'll leave it at that for now, and when you've made changes we can figure out what else needs to be added/cut. :^)
1 month ago
I like this deck, I've always wanted a red/blue wizard deck and this one has a lot of potential. So I do want to disclaimer and say that my suggestions are not criticisms, and also I did not consider your budget or your collection lol. Lastly this is suggestions with just a cursory glance. Azami, Lady of Scrolls is pretty amazing in any wizard deck. Sol Ring, Izzet Signet, Arcane Signet, Fellwar Stone, Wayfarer's Bauble, and Talisman of Creativity are all low cost mana rocks that will help your deck ramp quickly. Mystic Sanctuary, Steam Vents, and Reliquary Tower are decent utility lands. Counterspell, Cyclonic Rift, Vandalblast, Expansion / Explosion, Blue Sun's Zenith, Chaos Warp, Curse of the Swine, and Fact or Fiction are all really good answer cards (I know rift is 20$ but it's still a staple). Baral, Chief of Compliance, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind, and Vedalken AEthermage are amazing utility creatures. Thousand-Year Storm turns all your spells into storm spells. Primal Amulet Flip helps mana costs and then copies spells. There's a few more things I can't really think of any, but my sources indicate that x spells do real well in a deck like this. Hope some of these help.
1 month ago
kei1 So Niv-Mizzet, Parun is good because it is pretty much guaranteed to resolve on cast, rewards you whenever your opponents do things, and has a slightly better stat line. It is, however pretty mana intensive in requiring 3 blue and 3 red and it also requires some form of catalyst to access its card draw. Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is a little easier to cast with 2 of its cost being colorless, and he doesn't need a catalyst to access his draw because it's a tap ability. It is only 1 card you get to draw from him though on his own, and his stats are slightly weaker. Overall I'd say Parun is probably stronger but there's nothing wrong with running both. Just improves your odds of finding one of your combo pieces.
As far as Thassa's Oracle and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries go, self-mill is actually one of the most powerful as most competitive win cons in EDH. It's extremely common for high tier cEDH decks to rely on cards like Thassa's Oracle as their primary win condition. Before Flash got banned, Flash Hulk decks were one of the strongest and most oppressive archetypes in the format because all you needed were flash and hulk in hand with the right cards in your deck and you could mill your entire library at instant speed and win with Laboratory Maniac. There are a lot of ways to mill your whole deck out there. If you wanted to do it in this one just take your Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter combo and any X draw spell like Prosperity or Blue Sun's Zenith and there you go. Library gone. Alternatively, you could use targeted X draw like Blue Sun's Zenith to just mill an opponent to death. Primarily with your Isochron you're going to be wanting Dramatic Reversal imprinted on it. That's why Muddle the Mixture is a good transmutation here. :^)
You're going to want to keep your mana rocks cheap and efficient. Additionally you want to be ramping hard and fast, so 3+ cost rocks aren't really ideal for a deck that's wanting to be more than casual. Spend your first few turns ramping as much as possible, then by turn 4-5 (or even 3 if you ramp fast enough) you want to be making your plays. For example, let's say you have potentially 5 mana turn 3. Would you rather cast Nekusar with a Force of Will/Force of Negation ready or a Gilded Lotus? You don't want to be dropping rocks when you could be making plays. Plus expensive rocks like Gilded Lotus are going to be big removal targets. If you cast it and it gets blown up, you're gonna be set back quite a ways.
As for Cowardice you're mainly just going to want to protect stuff like Nekusar with your counters and as was mentioned before Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves. It's more important to just keep him on the field. And if it's the commander tax you're worried about consider this: how much mana are you going to be spending over the course of the game recasting Nekusar from your hand every time someone targets him with anything at all? Just make sure that when you cast him from your command zone you have the ability to make him stick on the field.
Finally with bounce keep in mind that sure you can bounce a card and then potentially wheel it out of their hand into the graveyard, but removal does exactly that anyway without the extra step or the risk of them being able to cast it again before you wheel. Keeping some bounce in isn't a bad idea like you said to potentially deal with stuff that's indestructible, but I would advise you focus on removal first and foremost and run bounce as a secondary thing. Don't take out Cyclonic Rift though. That card is almost an auto include (there are no actual auto includes, but this one is pretty close) for any deck running blue. Very good card. Plus if you took out some of your bounce you could run some cards more suited to your general strategy, like Notion Thief! Seriously though wheeling out your opponents and then flashing in a Notion Thief so they get 6 less cards than you is just dirty.
Hope this helps! Anymore questions just let me know. Always happy to help. :^)
1 month ago
From a competitive standpoint the deck is running so little interaction and protection as it stands that it won't ever be able to hold up in competitive settings.
You'll definitely want each of these pieces of interaction in a Kinnan helmed deck at a minimum:
As it stands that won't be quite enough pieces to consistently have the access to permission and protection elements to remain in a competitive position in most game states and these pieces are worth running much of the time:
xNegate xDelay xInto the Roil/2cmc bounce spells (UG has very limited access to tools that can remove hate pieces from the board that prevent a win like Grafdigger's Cage, Notion Thief, or Narset, Parter of Veils.) xBeast Within
As an additional note about competitive Kinnan builds, you can lose the Dramatic Scepter stuff entirely. There's no need in a Kinnan deck. The most effective and efficient method of generating the infinite combo needed to win is any dork that can produce U and G mana combined with Freed from the Real and Pemmin's Aura. Basalt Monolith is worth running in Kinnan decks because it generates infinite colorless with just Kinnan out on the field also, so you can usually get a couple of Kinnan activations off to dig for Thrasios. For the mana dork complement it's best to stick with BoP, all the 1 cmc tap for G elf dorks, and then a handful of 2 cmc "tap for any color" dorks. The most effective back up infinite mana engines for a Kinnan deck are typically Simic Ragworm or Horseshoe Crab paired with Paradise Mantle and the Monolith (which is often why the deck runs Staff of Domination as an additional outlet that's easy to tutor for in the colors) rather than Dramatic Scepter combo as the Scepter combo relies on density of dorks and rocks to be engaged and this can be more difficult than a less card intensive engine (Crab, Mantle, Kinnan is 3 cards with one from the command zone compared to Kinnan, Dramatic Reversal, Isochron Scepter, 2 mana rocks/dorks at 5 cards to engage) and thus less reliable for the game play patterns Kinnan wants to ideally play from. Shapers of Nature and Thrasios, Triton Hero are the standard outlets that will eventually be found from Kinnan activations that allow you to draw the whole deck. From there winning is easy, so stick to win conditions that are more live than things like Blue Sun's Zenith and run Thassa's Oracle plus a looping mechanism (such as Narset's Reversal and Timetwister or Elixir of Immortality) to use the interaction pieces like Swan Song and Pongify as the win conditions (this helps to avoid other issues too, like not being able to win with Oracle due to Angel's Grace, etc, in addition to improving card slot efficiency). Green Sun's Zenith and Drift of Phantasms are generally considered must runs as tutor options for competitive Kinnan lists, but a good number of quality tutor options are available to provide consistency. Incubation Druid+Vigean Graftmage is somewhat popular as another back up 3 card game winning infinite combo line.
1 month ago
Some cards that you might like: Brallin, Skyshark Rider Flip, Shabraz, the Skyshark, Rielle, the Everwise, The Locust God, Psychosis Crawler, Burning Inquiry, Molten Psyche, Narset, Parter of Veils, Alms Collector, a Niv-Mizzet of your choice perhaps, Fevered Visions, Magus of the Jar, Wheel of Fate, Teferi's Puzzle Box, Winds of Change and I'll stop myself there lol.
Something you could do that might be cool would be to run a lot of cards like Dictate of Kruphix, Kami of the Crescent Moon, and Howling Mine to boost everybody's draw (might make them consider not killing you lol). That would rip the rug out from under everybody and make your wheels that much more impactful. Make them discard 12 cards instead of 6 or 7! Plus you're getting them closer to drawing on an empty deck.
As far as card draw goes, my favorites are targeted X spells like Blue Sun's Zenith and Stroke of Genius as they could always be upgraded to kill tools with an infinite source of mana i.e. Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter and I just like them a lot. If you decided to pursue group draw you could also experiment with stuff like Prosperity, Minds Aglow, and Fascination (you said you like options right?). Along with this I would add to your ability to win off of self mill with Thassa's Oracle and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries so that Lab Man has some friends.
I know you're running some recursion yourself but this deck has the potential to seriously fuel opposing decks with heavy graveyard interaction as their motif, for obvious reasons lol. Since you have have access to white you could always try Rest in Peace for the complete shutdown, and then maybe a Grafdigger's Cage just as another piece of graveyard hate. Alternatively, you might prefer cards with one time effects like Relic of Progenitus and Scavenger Grounds.. or you could mix and match! Up to you.
FINALLY, (yes I know, we're finally at the end) I would honestly just replace many of the dual lands you have that come in tapped with basics. I just personally don't enjoy having my lands come in tapped while everyone else gets ahead, and I really feel like basics are actually better than tapped lands even if they don't have the versatility or effects. Of course shocks and duals and fetches would always be nice, but we're trying to stay in budget so I'd just stick to the basics.
I know it's long but I just really enjoy researching cards and learning about different strats so I usually get carried away. I tried to stick with recommendations that stay under $10 but a few over the limit might've slipped through. I like your deck, hope this helped! :^)
1 month ago
This is good stuff. You've pretty much got all the good mill you'd want in a deck like this. Here's a list of things I'd take out and put in and I'll explain after:
Take out - 1 Arcane Denial, 2 Nyx Lotus, 3 Sky Diamond, 4 Soul-Guide Lantern, 5 Tribute Mage, 6 Solemn Simulacrum, 7 Fraying Sanity, 8 Fleet Swallower or 9 Sphinx Mindbreaker, 10 Reality Shift, 11 Dig Through Time.
I'll try to be brief with all of this. For 1 I think Muddle is better for your deck, especially if you decide to add in Grindstone + Painter's Servant . 2 I don't think is a great source of ramp (It costs 4 mana to cast AND comes in tapped AND you aren't even guaranteed to get value out of it. It all depends on whether or not you're having a good game. You could play this turn 4, not get to use it til turn 5 since it's tapped, AND still maybe only get 1 or 2 mana out of it. Oh, and because of its high cost it's going to be a juicy target for removal. If it gets blown up you basically just skipped a turn. So much for being brief huh lol). 3 same as 2. Extraplanar Lens (not at all a budget buy I know) is killer in mono decks with snow lands, and you've already got the snows. Sapphire Medallion would just be better than 3. 4 you have enough graveyard hate. 5 you don't have impactful enough 2 cost artifacts to warrant this. Also Muddle. 6 you have enough ramp and don't need to mana fix. 7 I just feel is too targeted and might turn you into the table's bad guy if you weren't already. I'd just focus on the effects that apply to everyone or don't necessarily only apply to one player. 8 and 9 I don't feel like these are particularly necessary for winning but they're big and fun so I'd keep one and lose the other. 10 I just don't think you need. 11 some of your mills synergize with drawing and this doesn't draw. Good card, but I think for you Stroke of Genius and Blue Sun's Zenith will do you better. Additionally they can be combined with invite mana i.e. Dramatic Reversal + Isochron Scepter to mill out your opponents or mill out yourself. Crawlspace and Propaganda I feel do too much for you to pass up. I know you already have one of them in your maybeboard, but I think you need more defensive cards in your 99 so you don't get tag teamed as soon as you drop some of your more threatening toys. You know as soon as you play something like Mindcrank or Mesmeric Orb or hell even your commander, the table probably isn't going to be cool with you doing that lol. You just want to make attacking you a pain and use counters to handle the rest. Finally, Thassa's Oracle is good for self mill.
Sorry if I'm a bit all over the place, but I wrote this little by little throughout the day in between doing different things so I'd have to keep coming back and remember where I was and yeah lol. Hope I helped though. It's a cool deck and I'd hope to at least give you some ideas to work with. :^)
1 month ago
Nice list. If we’re running Isochron Scepter and Blue Sun's Zenith, then we might as well run Dramatic Reversal. We can draw our opponents out, or we can draw ourself out and run Thassa's Oracle. We would then benefit from more two-producing mana rocks such as Worn Powerstone. We can protect our counters and combos by running Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. We could also run Knowledge Pool to be a real jerk. Also, consider Stormtide Leviathan, as he supports your strategy of beating face with drakes. We should be running 31 snow-covered islands, as running only one won’t get us the benefit with Extraplanar Lens. Good work.