Blue Sun's Zenith
Target player draws X cards. Shuffle Blue Sun's Zenith into its owner's library.
|Have (2)||metalmagic , rockleemyhero|
|Want (4)||Logic-Aside , thomas9790 , noremac1286 , Ender666666|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||Rare|
|Commander Anthology (CM1)||Rare|
|Commander 2015 (C15)||Rare|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Rare|
|Mirrodin Besieged (MBS)||Rare|
|Mirrodin Besieged: Mirran (MBM)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Blue Sun's Zenith occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.05%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.08%
UR (Izzet): 1.0%
GU (Simic): 0.7%
Blue Sun's Zenith Discussion
5 days ago
That's what I was leaning toward, Dylan. Here's why:
Between all 10 Guild Signets, Arcane Signet and Fellwar Stone I have access to 12 stones that produce a wide array of colors. Now I could add in Coldsteel Heart, but this enters tapped and only allows me one color, so I'd rather not limit myself so heavily. There are about 10 or so lands I have identified that can also produce any color mana with little downside, on top of the 10 shocks and 10 fetches.
So I think I can build a robust enough mana base to pay for a 10cmc Commander relatively quick. What'd I'd need from to speed things up is draw.
Draw is the single most important aspect of this deck, because without it I'd eventually run out of cards in hand. So, for the purposes of this deck, I think high-impact draw spells such as Sphinx's Revelation are actually well worth it. There is, of course, Karametra, God of Harvests but unfortunately she seeks out basics. Between 10 shocks, 10 fetches and 10 that produce all colors, I already have 30 lands accounted for. If I go even just two of each basic, that's 40 lands in a 99 card library.
Add on top of this the 12 stones I've mentioned and I have a staggering 52 mana-producing cards, leaving me just 37 of them left available to me.
If I put in 25 Gods, this means I will be on average drawing a God every 3rd - 4th turn. This however leaves me with a mere 12 cards left to work around.
This is where the difficult part comes into play; Between the shocks and fetches, that's a staggering 30 life that could be paid into them over the course of a full game. So, naturally I'd want some cards to regain said life.
I want to plan for wraths, as with my Gods being Indestructible I want to blow up the battlefield and reset the game, allowing me openings to swing in for the win. I feel that in order to appropriately push this, I'd want at minimum 5 wraths or wrath-like effects. I think I have settled upon:
This leaves me with just three cards for draw. Bare in mind, Sphinx's Revelation is already listed and Karametra, God of Harvests effectively acts like draw. Something I think a lot of players miss is that there is a difference between draw and card advantage. What Karametra, God of Harvests does is give you card advantage by putting additional cards onto the battlefield. For each 1 creature you pay, you get an additional land for free. This means you remove a card from your deck, thereby increasing the percentages and chances of drawing into something better.
The same is true for fetch lands - Using one land to take another land out of your library is effectively removing 2 cards, meaning you improve percentages.
Between Sphinx's Revelation, Karametra, God of Harvests, Keranos, God of Storms and Ephara, God of the Polis there's a decent amount going on. There's also The Scarab God who I can use as an exile effect against graveyards to give me more bodies on the field, which in turn translates to scrying. The Locust God also works for draw, as well. So that's six already named in the base set. I still have 3 cards left to build into the +99.
Blue Sun's Zenith is an obvious must-have as it ensures replayability. With the insane density of mana in this deck, I'd be stupid to not play it.
I honestly feel Thopter Spy Network is a good choice as well, because not only does it give me 1/1 flyers as chump blockers while I wait on devotion to kick in, it also gives me card advantage when they deal combat damage. I think many players overlook the second ability on this card, as it rarely sees any play in any deck out there.
Finally, I think I rather enjoy the idea of Alhammarret's Archive. It gives me a guaranteed 2nd card per draw, gives me additional resources with all of the above-mentioned draw worked in by the Gods, doubles up all of the X-draw factors, and really helps me push forward the regaining of life.
Now I obviously don't "need" to run 25 Gods, however I want to ensure I am always able to put pressure on the boardstate.
So, for now, that's where I'm sitting. It's about shifting resources and honing in the design to make it both faster and more aggressive.
I know it won't be on par with Ur-Draogn, Scion, Jodah or some of the other more robust 5c Commanders out there, however it's a unique and fun design that's honestly really difficult to stop.
That's why I've settled on Progenitus. He's harder to get out at first, but he damn-near instantly turns all Gods into viable creatures. Morophon, the Boundless still needs to wait to turn them all on, and it could be several turns before any one of them come online.
Having said everything I did in here, the truth is I am building this deck as an excuse.
I really wanted the Stargazer Secret Lair pack so I bought it. I am in love with the artwork and the idea of it just felt so natural to me.
One of the biggest hurdles I've had getting into EDH more is the mana base. The lands in any deck, as we all know, can easily double the cost of it. So, I came to terms and bought all 10 shocks and all 10 fetches. Doing so set me back $430, but now it's a hurdle I no longer face. I can now build stronger mana bases and, therefore, play the game more confidently.
So since I have the Gods from Stargazer and I have the 20 lands, I figured why not combine them into something special and I can just move the lands into whatever deck I need later on.
1 week ago
I'd consider cutting Ajani, the Greathearted, Rally to Battle, Aegis of the Heavens, and I'd look for a card draw replacement for Return of the Wildspeaker since you'll probably never draw a lot off of it. a Pull from Tomorrow or a Blue Sun's Zenith might fit. A lot of the 1-shot combat effects in commander tend to fail, or at the very least are underwhelming. They look sweet, but you're better off packing your deck with removal and effects that stay on the board. I'd keep Tower Defense and nix the rest of the instant boosts.
2 weeks ago
Sapphire Medallion is honestly not needed, same with Blue Sun's Zenith and High Tide. Vedalken Engineer, Manakin, Hedron Archive, and Hedron Crawler are unneeded. I would throw in some artifact tutors that sac artifacts that you control like Master Transmuter, Arcum Dagsson, Fabricate and Tolaria West. Urza's Bauble, Foresight, and Manipulate Fate are very good with Emry for getting off a combo win.
3 weeks ago
xram666 thanks for the suggestions. The thing that makes Deadeye so good is the immediate flicker, rather than a 'end of turn' return. This allows for repetition if mana permits or combos. For instance, Deadeye Navigator + Peregrine Drake is infinite mana. Add Archaeomancer and Ghostly Flicker and you have infinite ETBs (if ever relevant), X spells like Blue Sun's Zenith can also be used to draw someone out.
I have implemented the other changes and will test them out, not sure I can let Deadeye go though unless something comes up with a like ability...
1 month ago
I'm going to consider several changes to the deck. As for the creatures with inspired, I'm probably going to include Disciple of Deceit. The other three don't really fit any spot in my deck, so I'd leave them out.
Reagarding Thassa's Oracle, I will get my hands on one copy as soon as possible, in order to make up for an alternative win condition. I don't know if I shoud try to run also some recursion for creatures at this point, since I have some graveyard hate in the deck alraedy with Grafdigger's Cage, but I'll see.
I'm very surprised by Vizier of Tumbling Sands. It somehow slipped under my radar when Amonkhet was around. I really like the versatility it brings both through the cycle ability (which is an ability and not a spell, so it can be interacted only with a Stifle or similar), which can moreover be used at instant speed. The added bonus is the combo potential with Lotus Field (which I unfortunately traded away three months ago, screw me) and Pemmin's Aura/Freed from the Real. I'll definitely include it.
As multimedia said, I'll probably have to streamline the deck a bit more, removing janky combos in favor of consistency. It'll take some time, so I don't know when the update will come out.
I've tried the Naru Meha, Master Wizard + Ghostly Flicker shell that can interact with Phenax, God of Deception + Thousand-Year Elixir or with Altar of the Brood, or even to produce infinite mana for a Blue Sun's Zenith on an opponent to kill him or on me to combo out (even with Thassa's Oracle after the update). I however have a hard time in getting all the pieces, and many times I just found myself with one missing piece or no piece at all.
My main problem is that my playgroup doesn't like efficient tutors, so being able to keep a combo deck consistent is more difficult: for example, they may allow Lim-Dul's Vault, but not Scheming Symmetry (don't ask me why). Moreover, they don't like the presence of too many tutors, that's why I only run the vault - and I'll have to convince them to let me run Disciple of Deceit.
As a playgroup we have planned a meet up to talk about power levels and what is considered as taboo in the group. I'll have to convince them about tutors, but the social contract is something that gets hardly modified. Do you have any thoughts on how to improve or argument about it?
In the meantime, I'll try to use cards that can be both used as combo pieces and as value pieces, like the Oracle or the Vizier and to think of a streamlining of the deck.
1 month ago
Hey, I'm happy to help, but in the future please link to the decks you would like me to help with. It makes it easier for me to go to them :)
I like the changes you've made. You've added several good cards. Any card that's six CMC or higher should be a better card than Niv. If it's not then cut it for a lower CMC card. I suggest this because Niv is the high CMC card you want to play more than the rest. Big draw spells such as Blue Sun's Zenith and Pull from Tomorrow could replace other high CMC cards because these cards can be cast for a lower CMC or a higher one, they scale and are excellent plays at instant speed before you play Niv.
Have you considered less creatures, streamline the creature base? This kind of theme is called "spellslinger". Niv is the best creature you have and many other creatures don't really help Niv. Creatures who are part of combos, can reduce the casting cost of instants/sorceries that draw, make tokens when instants/sorceries are cast, do damage when instants/sorceries are cast are worth playing. Other creatures who don't do these things could be cut for more instants/sorceries and mana rocks.
The idea behind spellslinger is instead of playing lots of creatures you play more mana rocks, draw spells, counter magic, spells that interact with your opponents, etc. Mana rocks and draw spells help you to have ramp to play Niv as well as making sure because of draw you keep making your land drops each turn. Once Niv is on the battlefield then the draw spells become enablers for Niv to be a threat/win condition.
1 month ago
I actually play this deck with a different strategy in mind. I run a lot of stax till I can generate infinite mana - using wincons like:
1 month ago
Blink decks revolve around "Enter the Battlefield" (ETB)/"Leaves the Battlefield" (LTB) effects either attached to permanants being blinked i.e. Mulldrifter or a triggered effect i.e Elemental Bond. Working with the examples I've given you could add something like Laboratory Maniac to draw your Library and win, or Atemsis, All-Seeing as a win condition. Drawing out your deck isn't considered infinate as your deck as a finite number of cards.
Another route to go is theft if in a creature heavy meta. Steal opponents creatures, blink them with effects that read "return under your control" not owners, then you keep them permanently to swing or sacrifice.
Other than that you can just try to generate enough advantage via ETB/LTB effects to outpace your opponents.