Mizzix of the Izmagnus Interaction Question

Asked by Scytec 8 years ago

Everyone is stating the spells with in the casting cost are great with him. From my understanding, cards with count only the rest of the cost toward CMC. For example, to my understanding, Blue Sun's Zenith is a CMC 3 spell, no mater what you actually pay. Given Mizzix of the Izmagnus's wording, this spell would trigger if you had 2 or less experience counters, but in no other circumstance. Did this rule get updated and I just missed it? Same thing with kicker spells and the like. Also, a Fireball with 10 experience counters is useless...it makes spells cheaper, it doesn't add that mana to your pool. What am I missing here...am I just wrong here?

The_Dragonmaster says... #1

You are correct. Blue Sun's Zenith has 3 cmc. But for your second question, I did a little browsing and found this rule:
10/1/2012: Goblin Electromancer can reduce alternative costs such as overload costs
Allthough it is a different card than Mizzix, Mizzix works the same way and X is considered a alternative cost. So fireball's cost would be reduced, even though it's cmc is still 1.

November 20, 2015 10:09 a.m. Edited.

Raging_Squiggle says... #2

Spells with x in their mana cost, while on the stack, have a cmc that includes the value of X. If you cast Fireball for x=9, the total cmc will be .

Additional costs do not change the total CMC of spells. These include kicker, and multikicker.

The formula to cast spells goes as such:
casting cost + additional costs - cost reductions.

example

You have 10 experience counters. You announce you're going to cast Blue Sun's Zenith for x=15. Total CMC is now ()

Casting cost+additional-reductions

+ - = (this it what you will actually have to pay).

Once payed, Mizzix triggers because you cast a spell with CMC greater than the number of experience counters you have. You'll then have counters for your next spell.

Note: anywhere else, a spell with x in its CMC is considered

November 20, 2015 10:19 a.m.

Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #3

Rules in support of Raging_Squiggle

202.3b When calculating the converted mana cost of an object with an X in its mana cost, X is treated as 0 while the object is not on the stack, and X is treated as the number chosen for it while the object is on the stack.

Since the Mizzix triggers when the spell is on the stack, X is counted as the declared number for purpose of CMC.

601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If multiple cost reductions apply, the player may apply them in any order. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is consideredto be . It cant be reduced to less than . Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes locked in. If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

Mizzix's second ability is a cost reduction. It reduces the cost after taking into account the declared value of x, any mana symbols, any additional costs (such as kicker), and any cost increases. I'm not sure what adding mana to your mana pool has to do with this at all.

November 20, 2015 11:36 a.m.

BlueScope says... #4

The important thing to remember is that you first announce a value for X (and Y and Z, if applicable), then pay any costs. So if you announce a Fireball with X=10, and you have 10 Experience counters and Mizzix in play, the original cost of is reduced by 10 to . Furthermore, when the spell is put on the stack, Mizzix looks at the CMC, sees 11 (10 + 1) and triggers.

As previously mentioned, to calculate the CMC of something, X is treated as anywhere except on the stack, where it's actual value is used. Relevant rule:

107.3f. If a card in any zone other than the stack has an X in its mana cost, the value of X is treated as 0, even if the value of X is defined somewhere within its text.

November 20, 2015 11:44 a.m.

Scytec says... #5

Ok, I did not realize the applied value of X changed on the stack. Thank yall!!

November 20, 2015 6:08 p.m.