|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations (AKHMPS)||Common|
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Uncommon|
|Masters Edition (MED)||Common|
|Promo Set (000)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
Force of Will
You may pay 1 life and exile a blue card from your hand from the game rather than pay Force of Will's mana cost.
Counter target spell.
|Have (4)||lorddarkstar , rockleemyhero , , Bluboltar|
|Want (13)||fabioacki , FateDecider , redsky87 , Edbarja , umbanhowar , EsquiloHomicida , Vlad_The_Inhaler , ORNAMENT , termain , Haldarr , Fylenos , piytuman , x_Tetris_Dude_x|
Force of Will Discussion
3 days ago
I haven't found a tuned list. My point is that because of the heavy-combo metagame right now, if you use blue-tempo style interaction to rip up the opponent's hand and stop them from comboing, you just win if you resolve a threat. Historically delver lists use Delver of Secrets Flip since it is a 1 mana 3/2 flier. Currently Oko, Tarmogoyf and Gurmag Angler are used as well for this purpose in the most common Sultai Delver list. The issue is these threats are answered cleanly with countermagic. Abusing Cavern of Souls in a deck that can compare in terms of answers leads to those counterspells being useless on a threat. In terms of removal you have Ice-Fang Coatl being an uncounterable removal spell that draws a card. This means you have a better game against other fair blue decks like Dreadhords Arcanist decks and Delver.
The issue is the combo decks are much better when they are given more time to draw into their combo, since the threats in Snakes are worse than in other fair decks in terms of overall value. Arcanist draws and bolts and crushes other fair decks, whereas Delver is just more efficient than Hexdrinker, when they take the same spot.
Green Sun's Zenith is the reason that I think the deck can overcome this. By using it as another shuffle with Brainstorm you can get more out of it than it already gets, but it requires a lot of Green creature cards. Given Force of Negation and Force of Will require a lot of blue ones the deck is split trying to run a lot of blue-green cards, or wants to draw blue ones but have green ones in deck, the deck has consistency issues. If I can work those out this deck could function.
Ice-Fang is already played in the somewhat Fringe Bant-Snowko deck abusing Oko and Ice-Fang along with a Bant value-town deck. That walker-based strategy is strong, but lacks consistency as well, playing a nearly bant-control game and running all copies of Brainstorm and Ponder to make up for its consistency issues.
3 days ago
seshiro_of_the_orochi If you are wondering, the list seems like a version of Maverick and Delver, which is great against any fair matchup but requires the tutorable cards that deal with Ad Naus, Dredge, Reanimator, Sneak and Show, and lands to really get anywhere. Because of the strength of Hexdrinker , Stonecoil Serpent , Green Sun's Zenith , Force of Negation , Brainstorm , Force of Will , Ice-Fang Coatl , and a set of good interaction, the deck can hold its own as a tempo build, with absurdly efficient threats, interaction, and card draw.
5 days ago
you will want Force of Will and Force of Negation to stop your opponent should they go first :p fun concept, ive thought about what it would be like without restrictions too. maybe diversify the storm spells in case they remove them somehow, use 1 BrainFreeze 4 Mind's Desire 1 Tendrils of Agony , and cut down to 1 grapeshot. also maybe just go 4 wheel and no recycle? idk, it seems pretty crazy!
1 week ago
I am no competitive EDH player, but from what i can see a good start may be removing the 3cmc mana rocks that you are running with cheaper ones: Talisman of Creativity , Mind Stone , Fellwar Stone are some you might want to consider. In cEDH are played a lot less lands than normal in favor of very cheap mana rocks like Mana Vault , Mana Crypt and Mox Opal .
Also if you really want to be competitive you surely will run all the cheap counters like Force of Will or Pact of Negation and also you will have to remove all the lands that enters the battlefield tapped with off-color fetches or with utility lands.
I do not know how much competitive you want your deck to be, but if you are a returning player and do not know about https://edhrec.com you want to check it out.
Hope to have helped.
2 weeks ago
My first suggestion is you include the big three xerox spells: Ponder , Preordain and Brainstorm . They may not look like much, but superior card-selection for one blue is hard to argue with. I run them in every blue deck, though I think you'll need more shuffle effects to make Brainstorm good. Though I don't recommend them, you can also consider second-class cantrips like Serum Visions , Sleight of Hand and Opt .
My second suggestion is that you include the one-mana mana-dorks. I see you have Elvish Mystic , but running Birds of Paradise and Arbor Elf can be very helpful too. Utopia Sprawl works really well with Arbor Elf .
I think some of the two-mana ramp spells could be improved; I've never been a fan of Rampant Growth . Consider Nature's Lore (or its $100 cousin, Three Visits ) and/or Farseek . These can get non-basics, like your Breeding Pool , and Nature's Lore etbs untapped.
Evolution Sage is a card that MAY be good, but I'm not sure. Not having an immediate board-impact is a major downer, but its ability may be good enough to make it worth including. Playtesting can help.
Windfall is an excellent card-draw spell if you're down on cards. I suggest running Narset, Parter of Veils to act as a stax piece that is particularly abusive with Windfall . (Note that if you do end up with proliferate effects, you can proliferate her and get extra activations.) Other good card-draw spells include Fact or Fiction , Concentrate , Tezzeret's Gambit , Harmonize ...
Mystic Remora is a GREAT card. I personally think it's better than Rhystic Study , but I'm sure that'll raise a lot of hell (I also think Griselbrand should be unbanned, so I'm used to getting yelled at).
Wirewood Symbiote is a card you may want to consider. It words well with cards like your Reclamation Sage and can protect your guys from getting Toxic Deluge -d, and can buy you more triggers with your mana elf etbs for your general.
Depending on how many creatures you tend to have out, Slate of Ancestry could be a powerhouse. If you don't want to use that, running something like Collector Ouphe to fetch off Green Sun's Zenith can raise your decks chances against storm and the like significantly.
Opposition is a card I've been seeing more and more in powerful EDH decks these days. If you pair it with tokens and Seedborn Muse , Opposition can win the game on the spot. Adding something like Winter Orb to the mix can yield even more fun.
You can get more 'at the beginning of combat' triggers by having more combat steps. Consider extra-turn spells, like Temporal Trespass , Temporal Manipulation , Expropriate , Karn's Temporal Sundering , Nexus of Fate ...
Finally, counter magic is a good thing. Idk what the budget for the deck is, but the best counters are Force of Will and Mana Drain . More affordable cards that are still REALLY good are Spell Snare , Arcane Denial , Negate , Fuel for the Cause and the like. Counter-counters (I call them 'second-order counters,' since it makes me feel smart) are also good. Veil of Summer is the best right now, but Autumn's Veil and Dispel are also really good.
Right. That's all I got. Good luck!
2 weeks ago
Two questions for you....
- How do you win? (Possible wincon can be self-mill through Lab maniac or Jace Weilder of mystery. You could include a leveler and Torpor Orb package). Or are you set on aethurflux, I don't see how you storm out?
- How do you plan on protecting your planeswalker?
While I don't have an answer for either of those crucial questions (yet, a bit tired at the moment), here are some general good stuff recommendations that you might like to consider
Riptide Laboratory to reuse wizard ETBs and for protection.
Snapcaster Mage - No explanation required
Gilded Drake - Because f*** the opponent's commander
Ixidron - Acts a blue "board wipe" that fucks with everyone's commander except yours (Note: His ETB still works with torpor orb)
Future Sight - Yes it's costly, yes they get to see the cards you draw (mostly counterspells and draw anyways) but it allows you to dig DEEP and hit land drops. With a (relatively) higher CMC than usual and such few lands, it might be worth considering.
Minamo, School at Water's Edge to untap your commander and nykthos
Maze of Ith to protect your commander
Sensei's Divining Top - Dreidel Dreidel Dreidel, oh Dreidel I shall play!
I'm a fan of the extra turn package in blue. At worst, it becomes an explore that allows you to activate your commander again. At best, it allows you to go ham on your opponents. I strongly recommend you consider it.
What kind of direction do you want this deck to go in?
2 weeks ago
Update from this weekends cEDH tournament.
Won all rounds, but probably should have lost to a Kess, Dissident Mage in round 2, had a Glen Elendra Archmage resolved. I managed to Toxic Deluge it but then they Thoughtseize my Grim Tutor so was waiting for a tutor to pull a Swords to Plowshares . Then they tapped out on casting a Pact of Negation on my Bloodgift Demon (At the time, I only had Reflecting Pool (luckily they had played a Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth which enabled it to be ) and they were trying to mitigate my draw. (Note: I kept a 0 land hand in that round because I had Mana Crypt , Arcane Signet , and Dark Ritual in hand. Soon as they had no , successfully resolved my combo (again), they had already Force of Will cast on me earlier.
Anyways, never used the Worldgorger Dragon at all, drew the Bogardan Hellkite in the last round, never played him. Each round got there the same way, Buried Alive + Reanimate . The last round I resolved a Razaketh, the Foulblooded , sac'd Kaalia of the Vast realized I didn't have enough , so had to wait a turn, then cast Kaalia of the Vast again, resolved an Avacyn, Angel of Hope , sac'd Kaalia of the Vast to pull a for Goblin Bombardment (post-combat) sacrifice all the Restoration Angel after casting Buried Alive + Reanimate .
Post the tournament, realized Demonic Consultation was too much of a dead draw, going to replace it with Plunge into Darkness , saw it played a couple times was not horrible, worst case just pulls a tutor usually.
Also worked that evening on replacing Worldgorger Dragon and Bogardan Hellkite but came up with nothing. I primary win-con all rounds, never went to Leonin Relic-Warder which is far safer secondary than Worldgorger Dragon . Still thinking a Doomsday is a better way to go, could do Doomsday + Night's Whisper and build a stack:
Leonin Relic-Warder (discard with Faithless Looting )
That's CMC7 though .
What I really need is another Buried Alive best I can think of is Final Parting >> Leonin Relic-Warder + Animate Dead (to hand), but then still need a Goblin Bombardment . So the combo would be Final Parting + Goblin Bombardment or Animate Dead . So would be CMC9. Better than Doomsday CMC7 (stack) + = CMC10, and doesn't require a same turn enabler like Street Wraith . Still not right though. Hmm.
2 weeks ago
Just a note on Laboratory Maniac , you should already have your library drawn to 2 or less cards by the time you try to cast him. This means that in an optimal build you will have Force of Will , Pact of Negation , Swan Song , Mana Drain , Flusterstorm , and Delay at the very least in your hand. You should be able to force through Labman and have the cantrips to draw from an empty library in response to any responses, especially since you have infinite mana by this point. If you don't want to run Labman that is your choice to make, but as a win condition he is not unreliable or risky. I'll go ahead and assume that Jace, Wielder of Mysteries is also excluded as it is the same wincon as Labman.
Since the deck makes infinite mana as its primary function, Walking Ballista is an effective wincon.
Force of Will occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 2.28%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.08%
GU (Simic): 0.55%
WUB (Esper): 0.58%
UBR (Grixis): 0.6%