Mana Crypt

Artifact

At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, this deals 3 damage to you.

{T}: Add {C}{C}.

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Arena	Legal
Block Constructed	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Freeform	Legal
Gladiator	Legal
Historic	Legal
Historic Brawl	Legal
Limited	Legal
Planar Constructed	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Tiny Leaders	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (37)

Mortlocke on Why are These Cards Banned …

4 months ago

wallisface,

" And I’m of the view that the only people qualified to have those conversations honestly are those playing the most competitive builds possible, and living amongst the top-meta (so, in this case, cEDH players)."

Hear hear! That being said, I live exclusively in the 2 - 4 brackets. However, I am of the opinion that since cEDH has it's own meta and ethos that it should be considered it's own format entirely divorced from Commander. On that same thought, I think we should further tighten up the game changers list with a sub-list of what would be considered game changers that are locked to higher tiers. Lemme cook here - do you think Blood Moon is a card that's appropriate for a Bracket 3 deck? Something that the average Bracket 3 pod would be able to readily find an answer for? I don't think the previously mentioned or similar stax effects would be something an average bracket 3 deck can remove before the game's flow becomes completely one sided until the end of the game.

Some cards don't have to be outright banned, but restricted. E.g. Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt - these fast mana options would be ideal for a "Bracket 4 and 5 only" or "restricted" ruling. As they can change the pace of a game immediately, they would be reserved for only the highest levels of play/power. They don't outright stop anyone from playing the game - just enable them. Stax pieces should be treated the same way - they can outright stop or slow play to a game warping extent.

Thoughts?

legendofa on Why are These Cards Banned …

4 months ago

Where exactly does Mana VaultGC fall on the Sol Ring - Mana Crypt scale? It costs {1} like Sol Ring, adds a net {C}{C} like Mana Crypt, but has a pretty notable usage cost. It's a game changer, so it's more restricted than Ring but less restricted than Vault. Also, I've never actually seen one in action, so I don't want to make an uninformed judgement call. Is Mana Vault the "best available" fast mana rock? Or is it not worth the $100 price tag?

I like the idea of bringing back "Banned as Commander." Yeah, it's an extra list to keep track of, but it shouldn't be a big list, and the cards on it wouldn't be too obscure. The article brings up some points that support this. Iona, Shield of Emeria, Golos, Tireless Pilgrim, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, and Leovold, Emissary of Trest are my biggest nominations for this list. None of them are really broken by themselves (Iona against a mono-color or near mono-color deck, but I put that as "bad matchup" rather than "inherently broken", similar to something like Rule of Law against Spellslinger), but the problems come when you have free and permanent access to them. If you have to work for your Golos payoff or Rofellos ramp, they become a lot less punishing.

Mortlocke on Why are These Cards Banned …

4 months ago

plakjekaas

Last thought! Again, I want to reiterate - never once in our spirited discussion have I ever even remotely suggested that Mana Crypt be something included in "casual games". NOT ONCE. But just because a game is Bracket 4 or 5 doesn't mean it's not EDH. It just means folks have different expectations for their experience which are just as valid as people playing a "casual game".

Caerwyn on Why are These Cards Banned …

4 months ago

To state something painfully obvious that has not been addressed, Mana Crypt is +2 mana the turn it is played and leaves your land drop open so you’ll very likely have colored mana available; Sol Ring is only +1 mana and requires you tap your first turn land (or another resource) in order to play your first turn, making it harder to immediately use that purely colorless mana.

Frankly, the difference between the two cards’ power is so obvious, that I feel anyone tying to use the legality of Sol Ring to justify unbanning Mana Crypt either does not understand basic game design or is being disingenuous. The {0} vs {1} cost is so clearly more important than their similar {C}{C} production.

plakjekaas on Why are These Cards Banned …

4 months ago

Mana Crypt will only be as important to the format as Sol Ring when they retroactively print one in every precon in the last 15 years. It used to be an incredibly rare card that you'd only get through some magazine or book subscription in 1994. Its enormous price tag kept it away from all casual games. The moment you were able to get a mana crypt for the price of a precon instead of the price of a boosterbox case, the problem of what a T1 Sol Ring did to a game of commander doubled. The Rules Comittee, who took it upon theirselves to curate this fan-made format with all the critique that comes with it, decided it was shifting a balance that they didn't seem fitting for the format they moderated for the better part of two decades. Sol Ring equity gets fixed by the multiplayer aspect, but two of them might not. And if one of them had to go, Mana Crypt was the one, as the rarer and more expensive card of the two. To say that they're equals is actually ignorant.

Now I wouldn't be shaken by a Sol Ring ban. But Wizards printing product for the format before they regulated it, has made this practically impossible. Precon product that's not legal in the format it was printed for, gives more headaches than the ban would probably fix. That's the reality we live in, and I've accepted that. The fact that the "ban Sol Ring" discussion never dies despite this, shows that it's a problematically powerful card that could lead to less enjoyable playing experience. If you believe this to be true for Sol Ring, then for Mana Crypt doubly so. The downside is not enough for the 40 life format to offset that.

Every commander page and article somehow mentions that; if your playgroup doesn't agree with the rules, you can bend them to your needs to enjoy the game more. That's the Rule Zero, and the pregame conversation. If your playgroup wants to play with 7 Mana Crypts in your deck, Wizards is not going to stop you. Great that you enjoy war crimes on turn 3. But then you're not playing with the "regular random people expecting to play an actual game of Magic" that I mentioned. When you go to the LGS or a MagicCon by yourself to pick up a game of commander, you need a base expectation of what the average way is that a game of commander is played. That's what the ban list is for, that's what the bracket system is trying to do. Magic is enjoyed in as many ways as it has players, but by denying every common ground at the start because you feel too cool to be part of the average and like to go hard core, makes it only harder to adjust decks and intentions for a balanced game. To decide for everyone that what the majority considers "unfun" is actually fun is equally ludicrous.

Mortlocke on Why are These Cards Banned …

4 months ago

Quick side tangent but certain game changers should be restricted to higher brackets, e.g. Blood Moon and all other stax game changers should be bracket 4 and 5. I like Maldhound's take on it:The Reality of Blood Moon. On that point, Mana Crypt belongs there too if it gets unbanned.

Mortlocke on Why are These Cards Banned …

4 months ago

plakjekaas,

The article is written by someone who is in no way affiliated with Wizards, and his interpretations are in no way rule of law, any more than ours are.

I know, but I've encountered the same inconsistent logic when it comes to the justification behind banning of Mana Crypt. Crypt is just as important to the format as Sol Ring and im tired of people pretending its not. Sol Ring makes unbalanced "unfun" games happen but for some reason everyone gives it a free pass. I argue that Sol Ring should be banned too. Only then would the logic behind Mana Crypt's ban would be consistent. The logic would be equally as wrong, but consistent.

You might enjoy your magic games lasting less time than it takes to shuffle your deck properly, and you can rule zero that in your playgroup, but for regular random people expecting to play an actual game of Magic in their LGS, selected and brought 100 cards to be their deck, and then get roflstomped before they actually see their 10th card of the game, that is not the benchmark for a fun afternoon.

There's alot to unpack here, most of which appears to be well beyond the scope of Mana Crypt. First and foremost, if youre implying I enjoy playing effectively power 9 decks versus say a precon, then let me set you straight: People who do that deserve to be branded social pariahs and be excommunicated from the game. Now, sometimes I like slow games and sometimes I like it when everyone starts hurling war crimes turn 3. Mana Crypt is a vector to making sure that happens more consistently because that is what me (and more importantly) my playgroup have decided on beforehand.

This may come as a surprise, but the "regular random people expecting to play an actual game of Magic" sometimes want to experience games where they are "lasting less time than it takes to shuffle your deck properly" because the venue is closing soon and no one has the luxury or mental bandwith of another 3 hour game. EDH is about playing with power at a level everyone has agreed on. To decide for others that establishing a boardstate at the speed of light is "unfun" even when everyone at the table has a roughly equal chance at doing so is ludicrous. EDH became popular due to its variance: to homogenize the experience by banning a historic and important card for the sake of one group's idea of "fun" is antithetical to what makes EDH special.

Mana Crypt helps make the "playing with power" fantasy fairly consistent for all players at the table. Its a capstone that belongs in only the most powerful decks - brackets 4 and 5. Players who curate and desire to play those games should be able to without the interference of others who have more narrow ideas of what is "fun" in EDH.

plakjekaas on Why are These Cards Banned …

4 months ago

The article is written by someone who is in no way affiliated with Wizards, and his interpretations are in no way rule of law, any more than ours are.

That being said, I think everyone who wants Prophet of Kruphix unbanned lacks empathy, and doesn't look further than their own pleasure. That card will let you effectively take an extra turn during everyone else's turn. You leech up the clock for their turn as well as your own, and in the end you have played 4 times more magic than everyone else at the table, making everyone else wait for you. Seedborn MuseGC only gives you the untap, not the flash, that's why it's on the edge of being unfun for all other players, for taking up toomuch time and attention. The Prophet pushes that over the edge, therefor it's banned.

Sol Ring is the one you get. It's the iconic card of the format, not allowed anywhere else, an early one will swing the game, but the multiplayer aspect can correct that a bit. That's the stated reason in Wizards articles for why that one is not a game changer. That article also mentioned that the multiplayer aspect can only fix so much, which is why the second Sol Ring; Mana Crypt is banned for further imbalancing games. You might enjoy your magic games lasting less time than it takes to shuffle your deck properly, and you can rule zero that in your playgroup, but for regular random people expecting to play an actual game of Magic in their LGS, selected and brought 100 cards to be their deck, and then get roflstomped before they actually see their 10th card of the game, that is not the benchmark for a fun afternoon.

If you want the game to be fun for you, without thinking of your opponents, in a casual multiplayer game, you should not be in charge of the banlist. "The banlist should be about playing with as much power as you want" is pretty much the opposite of "a common framework to curate the experience". And if I'm an opinionated weirdo for wanting the whole table to have fun instead of them watching me have fun while they wait, so be it.