Force of Negation

Instant

If it's not your turn, you may exile a blue card from your hand rather than pay this spell's mana cost.

Counter target noncreature spell. If that spell is countered this way, exile it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard.

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Arena	Legal
Block Constructed	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Gladiator	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Historic	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Modern	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Tiny Leaders	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (43)

0rc on Cheapskate Talrand (Competitive, Budget $50!!)

3 weeks ago

ToxicMCTV, you’re right—-Jeweled Lotus would be great in this deck. Then we might as well throw in Mana Crypt, Force of Will, Force of Negation, and why not Timetwister :)

Icbrgr on Minor Misstep

1 month ago

@SpammyV cascade is one of the "decks to beat" at my LGS and I think that's honestly what got me so pumped for Minor Misstep to begin with... but knowing that stupid deck they will just Violent Outburst on my end step with Force of Negation in hand anyway (I really really hate that deck lol)

@Gidgetimer no worries at all honestly just thanks a bunch for helping me look into/understand how the ruling works.

@wallisface I think I'm leaning that way too in thinking that if this kinda countermagic has a main deck "home" then I'd say that some sort of tempo build... and have always been a sucker for Monastery Mentor/Young Pyromancer builds.

FearRipper70 on U/B Faerie Tempo Control

1 month ago

-1 Island, -2 Force of Negation, -2 Fallen Shinobi, -1 Counterspell, -1 Bloodchief's Thirst, +1 Mistbind Clique, +3 Cunning Nightbonder, +3 Slitherwisp

wallisface on Test of Talents vs. Hallowed …

1 month ago

I know you want to judge these in a vacuum, but I don't think that's a fair way to figure out which is the better option to run. Sideboards are quite literally dependent on the local meta, as well as the deck their for - some sideboard cards are much stronger in certain decks than others.

So, some questions:

• What deck is this for?

• What problem matchups are more common to show up in your meta? What does the rest of your sideboard look like and do you already have answers for some of these decks?

• Are you opposed to other cards that might solve your problems better? If so, why? Do you have budget restrictions here?

Personally, trying to judge this in a shell where I have no idea what you're playing, these cards feel alright for some matchups, and unideal for others:

• against Living End neither card feels particularly helpful. LE has access to both Grief and Force of Negation, so there's pretty high odds you're going to get your card taken from your hand if you're deck is a pro-active one (and if you're playing a control deck, there's just better tools available).

• against Indomitable Creativity both options seem fine, though Test of Talents feels better.

• against reanimation strategies neither feels ideal. You kindof want to turn-off the graveyard, and these cards just don't do that - they give the opponent too many ways to get back into the game after you've cast the spell.

• Hallowed Moonlight does seem nice for the tutor effects, but as far as undying/persist or infinite-creature-combos this feels only minimally helpful, in that it's just putting a Band-Aid over a severed limb.

zapyourtumor on Murky Waters

2 months ago

Card Suggestions Show

I've listed all these below with explanations, I just have to put them at the top so I can check mark them as suggestions. Drown in the Loch, Fatal Push, Inquisition of Kozilek, Damnation, Unmoored Ego, Sunken Ruins, Ledger Shredder, Aether Gust, Mystical Dispute, Remand, Spreading Seas, Memory Deluge, Orvar, the All-Form

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I think the main decision you have to make with this deck is whether you want it to be a true control deck or a tempo deck. A true control deck would try to trade one for one and build card advantage before dropping a threat like Murktide or Jace or simply winning with Snappy beatdown. A tempo deck on the other hand would try to turbo out a quick Murktide and then protect that threat.

Mixing control and tempo is nothing new, and it sometimes works quite well. But because a lot of the cards from each type of deck don't necessarily go well together, you can sometimes end up in an awkward situation.

Here, you definitely have a mix of both types (which, I'd like to emphasize, is not necessarily bad). Archmage's Charm, Counterspell, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage, Devastation Tide and Jace, the Mind Sculptor are all heavily control-flavored cards in your deck. They all either break even or generate card advantage, or massively stall out the game.

On the other hand, Force of Negation, Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Spell Pierce, and Subtlety are all tempo-flavored cards.

The problem with this combination in this deck is that half of your cards aim to turbo out a Murktide Regent as fast as possible with Otherworldly Gaze and Thought Scour and then protect it in the short term with cheap spells like Dismember, Force of Negation, Subtlety, and Spell Pierce. The main problems with these cards is that they are pretty terrible topdecks late game. Scour isn't too bad because it cantrips, but topdecking a Gaze when you really needed a counterspell or card advantage engine or a Murktide would probably feel terrible. And all the control-type cards aim to reach that stage of the game.

One example of a problem that arises when you try and combine these two archetypes is in the manabase. Tempo decks typically don't need many lands; depending on the deck's mana curve, we are generally looking at 19-20 lands, and occasionally even 18 or less. On the other hand, control decks almost always want at least 22-23 lands, sometimes up to 24-26 lands in order to reliably play their more expensive spells on curve like Archmage's Charm, Cryptic Command and Snapcaster Mage, and to also always have mana held up during their opponents turn for a reactive spell.

Of course, many cards fit very flexibly into both tempo and control decks, for example Counterspell is just so strong it works in both, while Consider being a cheap cantrip also fits into both types. So in my opinion one of the most important decisions you should make, if you want to make the deck more cohesive and just function smoother as a whole, is whether you want to lean more towards tempo or control.

Quick disclaimer: I think it is definitely possible to make the deck more competitive while keeping both tempo and control aspects; however you should probably then trim both the very slow control-leaning cards (Cryptic Command, Devastation Tide, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), and the cheap tempo-leaning cards (Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Force of Negation) and replace them with cards more towards the middle ground. The rest of the cards, like Archmage's Charm, Subtlety, Force of Negation, Spell Pierce, Dismember, and of course Murktide Regent are all flexible enough that they can slot into both types of decks.

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The second important decision to make is what secondary color, if any, you want for your deck in order to complement the primary color (blue). The main issue with mono blue control is that you have very few ways to deal with resolved permanents, which is why most players typically splash white or black (or occasionally red). Blue only has access to bounce spells, which are decent in tempo decks but generally bad in control decks because they are card disadvantage (and also terrible late).

Here, I see you kind of "splashed" black, but your only maindeck spell with black pips uses phyrexian mana anyways, while the only black spell in your sideboard can be casted with only blue mana. In my opinion, since you already have black lands, I would commit fully to a UB manabase by including a few more fetches (U fetches since that's your main color) because it gives you access to a lot of strong options:

Drown in the Loch is a really good spell doubling as both removal and countermagic at only 2 cmc, and only gets stronger as the game goes on. Fatal Push is another great removal spell which is generally stronger than Dismember, although it needs at least around 7 fetches to show its full potential. You can also run discard like Inquisition of Kozilek, although that is more tempo/midrange-esque so it may not be a great fit for this deck. Black also gives you an actual boardwipe in the form of Damnation, which is definitely a lot stronger than something like Devastation Tide since it gets rid of the creatures permanently and indirectly generates CA by trading with multiple enemy creature cards. It also doesn't hit Jace. If you don't think you need it in the mainboard, it can be a great sideboard inclusion. Lastly you have access to some sideboard options like Unmoored Ego.

If all of the blue pip spells like Counterspell and Archmage's Charm have you worried about mana fixing issues, you can run the filter land Sunken Ruins which is great in these types of decks to ensure you can cast both BB and UUU spells.

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Those two main points aside, I have a few other card suggestions I think could work well here, some of which lean more control and some which lean more tempo.

Ledger Shredder is a great card which leans a bit more towards tempo but unlike Gaze/Thought Scour it helps turbo out a Murktide while also growing into a significant threat itself.

Aether Gust and Mystical Dispute are decent color-specific sideboard cards.

Remand is a tempo-leaning card that is generally not great in pure control lists, but could be good here if you decide to stick to the turbo murktide strategy.

Spreading Seas is probably the best sideboard option mono-blue has against Urza's Saga.

Memory Deluge has a bit of antisynergy with Murktide, but a very good digging spell if you decide to go towards control.

Orvar, the All-Form is another great sideboard card which instantly turns the tables on any Creativity player thinking they auto won the game after cheating out an early Archon of Cruelty.

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If you made it this far, thanks for reading all of my comments. I like the deck and I'm excited to see where you can take it in the future. Happy brewing!

Dead_Blue_ on Murky Waters

2 months ago

Thanks for the upvote! I appreciate it a lot. There’s quite a few people that look at this deck and it doesn’t click for them since it’s not a meta deck and doesn’t use conventional wisdom.

Devastation Tide is certainly a mixed bag. At it’s worst it’s pitched to Force of Negation at it’s best it wins the game

Vapor Snag is good especially since it doesn’t require setup like Tide does …but I’d feel obligated to run a full playset and I don’t think there is enough space.

Cyclonic Rift can also be good but this deck runs 19 lands so expecting to hit 7 is unrealistic

I’ve never tested God-Eternal Kefnet so maybe I could throw one in the 75 to see how it goes. I used to run Kefnet the Mindful in another deck and loved that card

Joker4242 on Day's Recasting

3 months ago

Does anyone have any suggestions for a "four of" to put in the deck. Right now I have Mishra's Bauble. Although I am considering whether I want them or having Subtlety in the main deck. I am weighing the pros and cons of each.

Mishra's Bauble
Pros:
- Free cast
- Gain information on opponents deck
- Can be found with Narset, Parter of Veils
- Lowers overall mana curve of the deck
Cons:
- Cannot be exiled with Force of Negation
- Draws a card on the next turn
- One time use artifact and cannot be recast with Snapcaster Mage

Subtlety
Pros:
- Can be free cast at instant speed
- Acts as a sudo-counterspell for creatures/planeswalkers
- Is a creature (can remain on the field and attack/defend)
- Remains on the board if hardcasted
- Can be exiled with Force of Negation
Cons:
- Expensive on its own
- Evoke is a two for one
- Ability only has a temporary effect (not a hard counter)
- Cannot be found with Narset, Parter of Veils

Both spells have their uses and I plan on playtesting both options in local tournaments.

I am also looking for instants that cost two or less that would replace both of these options. Neither card can be cast from the graveyard with Snapcaster Mage. The spell should either be an early interact with opponent or card advantage (or both).

Joker4242 on Day's Recasting

3 months ago

Does anyone have any suggestions for a "four of" to put in the deck. Right now I have Mishra's Bauble. Although I am considering whether I want them or having Subtlety in the main deck. I am weighing the pros and cons of each.

Mishra's Bauble
Pros:
- free cast
- gain information on opponents deck
- can be found with Narset, Parter of Veils
- Lowers overall mana curve of the deck
Cons:
- cannot be exiled with Force of Negation
- Draws a card on the next turn
- One time use artifact and cannot be recast with Snapcaster Mage

Subtlety
Pros:
- Can be free cast at instant speed
- Acts as a sudo-counterspell for creatures/planeswalkers
- Is a creature (can remain on the field and attack/defend)
- Remains on the board if hardcasted
- Can be exiled with Force of Negation
Cons:
- Expensive on its own
- Evoke is a two for one
- Ability only has a temporary effect (not a hard counter)
- Cannot be found with Narset, Parter of Veils

Both spells have their uses and I plan on playtesting both options in local tournaments.

I am also looking for instants that cost two or less that would replace both of these options. Neither card can be cast from the graveyard with Snapcaster Mage which feels pretty lackluster. The spell should either be an early interact with opponent or card advantage (or both).