|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Rare|
|From the Vault: Twenty (V13)||Mythic Rare|
|Future Sight (FUT)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Venser, Shaper Savant
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Flash (You may cast this spell at any time you could cast an instant.)
When Venser, Shaper Savant enters the battlefield, return target spell or permanent to its owner's hand.
|Have (3)||Mortiferus_Rosa , piggito ,|
|Want (8)||ExplodingTaters , Rasputin0o7 , Schwartzy , xMichael , burnith , looneyclan , gix3612 , ddwind2000|
Commander Recommendations Start Commander Deck
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Venser, Shaper Savant Discussion
10 hours ago
These may interest you: Spark Double , Sakashima the Impostor , Stone-Seeder Hierophant , Lotus Cobra , Venser, Shaper Savant ("counter" a spell, AND bounce Venser back! 2stronk), Archaeomancer , Diluvian Primordial , Sepulchral Primordial , Avenger of Zendikar , Clever Impersonator , Mirrormade , Crystal Shard , Cloudstone Curio , Equilibrium
3 days ago
Thanks for the input Bighimmy!
So I've gone through the list and my understanding is that you mean proactive interaction/removal. So from the deck list thus far there is:
- Assassin's Trophy
- Beast Within
- Windgrace's Judgement
- Pernicious Deed
- World Shaper
- Acidic Slime
For boardwipes there are:
Now for some of the other options I've gone through in the past I personally don't feel like a few of them are really worth it, and feel free to discuss these since there's always going to be something that I'm missing or haven't really thought about. My thoughts on:
- Chaos Warp : This is an attractive option, it deals with anything and you can even use it on your own permanents to try and spin into something more useful. It means that certain threats don't go to the graveyard (for reanimation or death triggers) and can get lost in the deck. However, from past experience I'm much more a fan of Assassin's Trophy as you can then Bojuka Bog to exile the threat along with the rest of the graveyard. This is a less risky option, and I completely understand why people go to it but I know I'll be kicking myself once a Chaos Warp turns a threat into a bigger threat.
- Gaze of Granite : Pernicious Deed just does everything that Gaze of Granite does that much better with the only exception being planeswalkers. You don't have to sink all your mana into the casting (so if it gets countered it's not a complete loss) and furthermore you can use Pernicious Deed at instant speed, which is a massive way to interact with non-creature permanent-based strategies (such as enchantments and artifacts).
- Go for the Throat / Doom Blade / Dismember / Abrupt Decay : I'm not a massive fan of conditional removal in commander because my rule of thumb is that the broadest answer is the best answer the vast majority of cases.
- Putrefy : for the longest time I played this in the deck before Ravnica Allegiances rolled around and Bedevil took its place. The ability to interact with planeswalkers is fantastic, but the key thing I think is that the inability to regenerate clause from Putrefy isn't of massive concern for this deck for a couple of reasons. Firstly regeneration isn't particularly common, and when it is you're dealing with Asceticism in which case you're not Putrefying anything. Otherwise you have access to Damnation which doesn't allow regeneration and Toxic Deluge which also doesn't allow regeneration.
- Force of Vigor : I started playing this in my Ayula, Queen Among Bears commander deck and in mono green it is the best answer to a lot of early game and late game threats. Current this deck has 42 green cards so there's no shortage of fodder to play this for free on your opponent's turn, but I'm unsure as to what this supercedes in the deck currently.
- Casualties of War : as a budget option this is fine but the sorcery speed makes this lacklustre.
- Noxious Revival : This was on the radar for a while when I was concerned about getting Glacial Chasm destroyed and then getting exiled, however there is not really a reliable way to recur this effect, and it is not particularly powerful (though has some utility due to being able to play it at instant speed for nothing). My other concern was that it requires an additional step to get it into hand, so if you draw it for turn, you would need a way to draw an additional card to then get whatever you need from the graveyard to your hand. As a redundant effect for Eternal Witness I understand, however I think it is too much of a corner case and I would be more of a fan of Regrowth -like as you will have access massive amounts of excess mana from Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers . I imagine something like this will come along some time in the near future, it's only a matter of time.
- Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast / Guttural Response : I find that this angle of interaction is far too narrow to really be applicable unless you know there is a very high chance of versing counterspells in your local meta. This is why I find that Boseiju, Who Shelters All is a better solution to this problem, primarily because it can be searched off abilities and deals with the majority of effects while being difficult to interact with itself. Now the way your opponents can get around this is effects like Venser, Shaper Savant , Narset's Reversal or any other Unsubstantiate -type abilities. I learned to simply accept this as a weakness of the deck given the colours. The archetype is rather weak to its inability to interact with the stack, but I think there are more unconventional ways around this, such as Contamination to punish their mana base or by waiting until your counter-laden opponents are tapped out from trying to deal with each other. I think that this is a fair trade off for this deck being difficult to interact with.
The main weakness of this deck I believe is its inability to deal with mill and combo effectively, vulnerability to bounce effects on the stack like Venser, Shaper Savant and counterspells. I've found that these weaknesses can be reduced with a couple of strategies:
- Playing some political cards Pir's Whim + Tempt with Discovery + Rites of Flourishing to try and ameliorate the board (and not draw the ire of anyone who might have a counter available),
- Building up a solid land base from both a deckbuilding and play perspective to support a late-game comeback due to the lack of cards that effectively interact with land-base strategies, and
- The ability to play around counterspells and interaction, such as Boseiju, Who Shelters All and reliance on using abilities rather than just spells.
So after a little more testing, Elvish Reclaimer is an absolute house in being able to effectively Crop Rotation each turn to more reliable tutor out either ramping or utility land. The summoning sickness issue means that again this does not pull this deck back from the brink in the late game, but as an early game drop it provides access to both stocking the graveyard for Lord Windgrace and fixing mana for the later game. I regret my initial skepticism on this addition and think it is a great upgrade for the deck.
I am planning on adding in Korvold, Fae-Cursed King shortly because I think another Gitrog Monster will be welcome here. I think I'll finally have to pull the trigger on cutting Zuran Orb , it's been there since the start...
1 week ago
These might interest you: Peregrine Drake , Archaeomancer , Ghostly Flicker , Displace , Call to Mind , Relearn , Theft of Dreams , Borrowing 100,000 Arrows , Mark of Eviction , Cloudstone Curio , Equilibrium , Sunken Hope , Venser, Shaper Savant , Riptide Laboratory , Turnabout
1 week ago
Hynx no worries. I wish you could edit comments on the site sometimes.
I don't think I'll be adding mana dorks. The idea is that the deck is a control deck, slowly working towards the combo, rather than turbo into it.
I'm considering dropping Venser, Shaper Savant , since all he does is turn on opposing removal. Another planeswalker based win con would be an ideal replacement. Something like Elspeth, Sun's Champion . A token factory, in case Jace, the Mind Sculptor gets shut down somehow.
2 weeks ago
Venser, Shaper Savant is pretty rad with Yarok. Bounce a spell with the first trigger, bounce Venser himself with the second trigger. These are neat too: Spark Double , Sakashima the Impostor , Palinchron
2 weeks ago
You're talismans are good ramp but are strictly worse than basic signets. I would replace them. In a deck with hefty lifegain they might be better - but i can forsee taking a ton of damage from then.
The The Immortal Sun , Guardian Project , Mystic Confluence , Ulvenwald Hydra , Seedborn Muse , Rune-Scarred Demon Muldrotha, the Gravetide , Hornet Queen , Courser of Kruphix , Oracle of Mul Daya ...and anything with Landfall are my least favorite cards for the deck. I think Landfall is an entirely different style this commander can be played with - as in I think it would need support from the entire deck and need to abuse Landfall with more cards. Right now I think the deck has a bigger Control theme. Cards like Roil Elemental or Sire of Stagnation need to be protected - and need an entire support system of counters and Explore and Harrow and Scapeshift and Splendid Reclamation and Crucible of Worlds etc etc.
Also you can probably go down to 32 lands.
1 month ago
1 month ago
Hey man a few cards to consider adding.
These trigger twice, and can help you create infinite manna:
More ETBs lets you get 2 creature and both have strong effects: Wild Pair
A possible big finisher:
Venser, Shaper Savant occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.04%