Venser, Shaper Savant
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
Flash (You may cast this spell at any time you could cast an instant.)
When Venser, Shaper Savant enters the battlefield, return target spell or permanent to its owner's hand.
|Want (5)||beardsleep , deman464 , Eurotrash , vaelroth , JustSeph|
Printings View all
|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Rare|
|From the Vault: Twenty (V13)||Mythic Rare|
|Future Sight (FUT)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Venser, Shaper Savant occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.04%
Recommendations View more recommendations
Latest Decks as Commander
Venser, Shaper Savant Discussion
3 weeks ago
So it really depends on what direction you want the deck to go. Mistmeadow Witch, Brago, King Eternal, Eldrazi Displacer, Roon of the Hidden Realm, Thassa, Deep-Dwelling, and Soulherder are good enablers to get more ETBs. Yarok, the Desecrated is just another Panharmonicon so another great choice. If you want to lean more on Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Zealous Conscripts, Restoration Angel, and Felidar Guardian go infinite with Kiki and are also good on their own. Some solid ramp/utility creatures are Agent of Treachery, Coiling Oracle, Peregrine Drake, Dockside Extortionist, Lavinia of the Tenth Golos, Tireless Pilgrim, Gonti, Lord of Luxury, Sepulchral Primordial, Pramikon, Sky Rampart, and Stonehorn Dignitary, Dockside and Peregrine being able to go infinite with Deadeye Navigator. Some good removal are Hostage Taker, Knight of Autumn, Meteor Golem, Reclamation Sage, Reflector Mage, and Venser, Shaper Savant. And that's just scratching the surface. What are you looking to do in particular?
3 weeks ago
So Roon was one of my first Commanders. I originally built Arcum in 2013, and he was way too powerful for my playgroup, and after that I built Ghave and Roon at the exact same time. I've since converted my Roon deck to Chulane, but I've still got 7 years experience piloting this deck in a high-budget variant, so I should be able to help you out.
I will keep prices in mind for recommendations though. I'm not going to recommend Gilded Drake, for example, because while he may be super good, he's also like 1/5th the overall price of the deck, which can be quite a lot.
My favorite cards for Roon, or at least the ones my opponents hated seeing the absolute most were:
Ixidron. No lie, big Ixidron coming out turning everyone's stuff face down was a massive blow to my opponent's strategies, especially when tutored out via something like Chord of Calling or Finale of Devastation. In fact, if you Chord into Ixidron and your opponents, for example, have creature based sac outlets like Viscera Seer, they have to sac their creatures blind or else they won't be able to sac them at all (X on the stack is the only value your opponents will know. Once Chord resolves, that means Ixidron is in play and creatures are face-down, there is no point in the middle in which opponents get priority to activate abilities!). You can easily turn your creatures face up with Roon, Flickerwisp, Soulherder, Thassa, Conjurer's Closet, and Deadeye (exiling the creatures then returning them to the battlefield returns them face up). As a board wipe, Ixidron can be an insurmountable stumbling block that can buy you many, many turns; I highly recommend it for this reason.
Venser, Shaper Savant is an incredible interaction piece. Uncounterable spell on the stack? No biggie, it doesn't resolve, back in your hand, and I can do this all day, homie. Problem permanent? It's gone too. Have infinite mana with Deadeye and Drake and you need a way to win? Well, resetting every single opponent back to turn 0 is a great way to make them concede.
Swap Pilgrim's Eye for Wood Elves (for when you get Breeding Pool) or Sakura-Tribe Elder. The Eye isn't even ramp, while the other two put you closer to reaching your fifth mana so you can cast Roon, Chulane, etc..
So far I've touched on a reusable interaction piece, reusable recursion, and ramp. You're looking to optimize the list, though, so here I go on that note:
How important is winning with tokens to you? I see you have Deadeye and Drake, so infinite mana is okay, and is that why you're running so many X token spells?
If possible, I recommend removing some of those to use tutor spells like: Chord of Calling, Finale of Devastation (ok this one is a bit pricey, but it's absolutely worth it), Green Sun's Zenith, Eladamri's Call. Why? Because why win with tokens when you could generate the infinite mana with Drake and Deadeye, then tutor into Mulldrifter who will let you draw your library (and then just cast/blink Craterhoof and Avenger)? You could easily swap March, Whitesun, and Finale of Glory for these and you would still get a big, game-ending play with tokens, but these tutors will smooth out your early game immensely.
Rhystic Study is expensive, too expensive for me to recommend actually, but Generous Patron is practically perfect. I cut a draw creature the moment this card was spoiled and never looked back- buffing random creatures that opponents generally tap is usually of little consequence, but being able to draw 2 for 3 is something this deck just doesn't usually get.
Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip is almost on the cusp of being more expensive than I'm comfortable suggesting. It's a dig four for a creature on one side, and a Gaea's Cradle on the other. You run a ton of creatures so this could be very valuable.
Also, check out Glen Elendra Archmage. It's better than it looks on paper and everyone has to pay attention any time you have U up, because you can easily reset her.
Also, Oko, Thief of Crowns is also kind of pricey, but it's really good. 1UG "Beast Within a creature or artifact every turn" is massive.
Aura Shards is above budget recommendation but it's an easy include too. It's so good in this deck and downright oppressive against the right decks.
Aura Shards, Oko, Glen Elendra Archmage, Generous Patron, Chord of Calling, Finale of Devastation, Eladamri's Call, Green Sun's Zenith, Sakura-Tribe Elder (or Wood Elves), Venser, Shaper Savant, Ixidron.
Winged Coatl, True-Name Nemesis, Basalt Monolith, 3 of your token X spells, Rashmi (Patron is just outright better), Derevi, Wonder (losing a lot of the random tokens, it's nbd to lose Wonder too), Frost Titan (Ixidron is more disruptive to opposing strategies).
There's a lot more improvements that could be made but this has already gone on long enough. Simple things like Azorius Signet > Azorius Keyrune, or improving the mana base (lands like Transguild Promenade are always worst in practice than they appear as they're basically spell slots for non-ramp, since they cost mana to keep), or even using Eldrazi Displacer over Mistmeadow Witch (Displacer is more efficient and brings the thing back immediately for multiple abuses per turn). I also remember dropping Conjurer's Closet back in the day for Brago, King Eternal, since he could flicker more things once per turn than the artifact could.
Anyway, hope this helps
1 month ago
If you want to make this deck more competitive, I have a handful of recommendations of cards to remove as well as cards to add.
Gadwick, the Wizened. Only draws the cards when you first play him. Tap ability is only OK.
Callaphe, Beloved of the Sea. Paying 1 extra mana in competitive can mean a lot, but this is also a very niche tax. Rarely will this cause opponents to end up even paying 3 extra mana (going even).
Dream Eater and Exclusion Mage. Both perform a similar task except Dream Eater does it better. Only issue is that Dream Eater is expensive mana wise and Exclusion Mage is a little specific (and also doesn't create that much pressure). There are better options out there (Galecaster Colossus).
Master of Waves. When you blink him, all the elementals that he created the first time immediately die since they are 1/0 's. Makes lots of tokens, but what does that do for your gameplan?
God-Eternal Kefnet. I counted the number of spells you made sense to cast off of Kefnet's trigger. There are 13 cards which are good for this. This puts you at a roughly 15% chance of hitting something from Kefnet off of your first draw each turn. Would be better to have something more consistent or some way to combo with Kefnet (e.g. Brainstorm looping an extra turn spell to cast the copy each turn with Kefnet and then putting it back on top).
Heraldic Banner. How often do you swing to kill? If it's not that often, maybe consider putting a different rock in here? This one is weird.
The Magic Mirror. Ends up usually being 6 mana to draw 3 unless you can manage to stall the game out heavily (or someone else can). It's also VERY easy to remove which sets you really far back. Someone Vandalblasting will hit this, and no one won't pay an extra mana to By Force away your card draw.
Finale of Revelation. I personally love this card, but it's bad unless you can do it for 10 or more. It's not instant speed which means you can't really hold up counter magic. The instant speed versions of this give you the opportunity to cast something else when you really need to which is more important 9 times out of 10.
Shadowspear. You only have a handful of spells that even target. I also don't see anything in your deck that destroys. Most of your spells hit everything. I'd leave this out even though it's a really fun card.
Mass Manipulation. Requires a TON of mana to do anything meaningful. You'd be better off with a creature that can steal a creature until end of turn and then blinking that creature to keep it permanently.
Just more counterspells. There are plenty out there. You can't win if someone else does!
Venser, Shaper Savant. This guy can bounce permanents (this includes lands which can matter sometimes) AND spells. Someone cast a high CMC spell? Bounce it!
Overall, these suggestions are going to raise your power level a lot, so if you're trying to keep things casual still, maybe don't employ all of these. But, if you want to make this deck a lot more powerful, these are some of the best ways to do it.
1 month ago
Thank for the positive feedback. means a lot!
Get Panharmonicon on the field to double ETB triggers. Then cast Peregrine Drake to make 10 mana from untapping lands and tapping them. use the floating mana to cast Venser, Shaper Savant. Panharmonicon causes venser's ETB bounce ability to trogger twice. Target the drake and himself with the abilities. Then loop this for infinite mana. Once you have that, proceed as above to use venser to bounce all permanents, draw cards, and win the game.
Note that this combo is a lot more easily disrupted when compared to the other two loops because there isn't a Deadeye Navigator to provide instant speed protection from removal spells for the creatures and that Panharmonicon is kind of a siting duck for removal too. Also, the same warning about overdrawing from above applies here too, so be careful of that.
Happy milling! ^_^
1 month ago
You might like these: Domineering Will (steal 3 dudes, keep one of them permanently using Thassa's ability!), Ray of Command, Chamber of Manipulation, Overtaker, Mulldrifter, Sea Gate Oracle, Diluvian Primordial, Agent of Treachery, Conjurer's Closet, Verity Circle, Wall of Stolen Identity, Meteor Golem, AEther Adept, Venser, Shaper Savant, Sunken Hope, Nevermaker
1 month ago
As for wincons, the primary one is milling yourself and then using Jace, Wielder of Mysteries or Thassa's Oracle. I chose these rather than Laboratory Maniac because they are more resilient. You'll notice we don't run that much interaction, so we want to be able to win and not have that win threatened. Of the two, I prefer Thassa's Oracle more since the win condition is an ability so it doesn't matter if it gets destroyed. The trouble with lab man or jace is that if it gets removed and you go to draw that last (nonexistant) card, you lose instead, so Thassa's Oracle provides that resiliency. And then I chose Jace for the same reason because planeswalkers are typically harder to get rid of. Also both oracle and Jace are what I like to call "self-contained wincons" meaning that they come down and you win assuming you meet the conditions without having to do anything else.
There is one other alternative hard wincon in the deck if the self mill strategy isn't viable, and three soft wincons if it gets to that point. Generally, the soft wincons are designed as ways to lock down the game and stall out until you can get one of the hard wincons to actually win the game.
The alternative hard wincon is a Lifegain + Aetherflux Reservoir strategy. Uro gains us a ton of life, so why not capitalize on this with other lifegain spells? Horizon Chimera, Skola Grovedancer, Tatyova, Benthic Druid, The Great Henge, Shadowspear, etc, function as a lifegain package to pad our life total because people will definitely be attacking us. This buys us time to find responses or to outright win. It also helps you pay for Glacial Chasm's cumulative upkeep cost to prevent those attacks outright. Finally, in long and grindy games, we can simply use our massively inflated life total to blow out opponents with the deathstar that is Aetherflux Reservoir, which itself also functions as a lifegain engine. Plus, all of this lifegain is doubled by Alhammarret's Archive, which is just nutty. Piloting the deck, I've managed to gain 110+ life in one turn so it's definitely a viable strategy.
Onto the soft wincons:
The first soft wincon is to take infinite turns with Nexus of Fate. So the way this works is that with the self-mill we're doing, our deck gets pretty thin. Basically, at some point, if we've milled out successfully, Nexus of Fate will be the only card left in our library which means we draw it every turn since it shuffles itself back into the library if it would hit the graveyard as a replacement effect. This has the bonus of preventing us from milling out since then we always have a card to potentially draw whenever we need to at that point. However, not that this isn't a wincon by itself, which is why it's called a soft wincon, but it does mean you have all the time in the world to find a way to get one of the hard wincons out. Basically the play is to cast Nexus of Fate, pass turn to yourself, and then use the upkeep Genesis trigger from Genesis being in your graveyard to get back Thassa's Oracle for the win. Alternatively, you can just take infinite turns and force everyone else to concede if you absolutely can't win.
The next soft wincon is a little complicated, but basically it's a loop involving Peregrine Drake, Deadeye Navigator, and either Words of Wind + Uro or Panharmonicon + Venser, Shaper Savant to force your opponents to bounce all their permanents, including lands. At that point, most of them will choose to concede the game because they have no permanents or land. If not, you can keep looping, but to draw cards instead to get one of the other wincons to win the game outright. Here's how the loops work:
1) Words of Wind + Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath To start, you make infinite colored mana with the Peregrine Drake/Deadeye Navigator combo, and then cast Uro, or flicker it with deadeye if Uro is already on the field. With Uro's abilities on the stack, you pay 1 mana into Words of Wind to replace your next draw with forcing every player to bounce a permanent. Obviously, you choose to bounce Uro to your hand. With infinite mana, you keep looping this gaining life each time while forcing your opponents to bounce all of their permanents, including lands. At that point, if they dont concede, you can draw cards by not using Words of Wind and having uro sac himself to the command zone. From there, you dig for either Aetherflux Reservoir or Thassa's Oracle or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries to actually win the game.
2) Panharmonicon + Venser, Shaper Savant For this loop, a Panharmonicon is not required, but makes it easier to do because of the double ETB triggers. First, we begin like previous making infinite mana with Peregrine Drake/Deadeye Navigator. This lets us cast Venser, Shaper Savant. And we target an opponent's permanent to bounce to their hand. If you don't have Panharmonicon, you pair venser with Deadeye Navigator, and use deadeye's flicker ability to keep flickering venser ad nauseum until all your opponents permanents (including lands) are bounced to their hand. At that point, if they don't concede, you can use venser to bounce uro to your hand or use infinite mana to cast him and flicker him to draw cards until you find Aetherflux Reservoir or Thassa's Oracle or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries to actually win the game. Panharmonicon just makes the loop more efficient because you can target two of your opponents' things at once.
The one thing to note with these loops is that you should be careful not to overdraw though, because Guardian Project and The Great Henge are all mandatory draw effects that trigger when a creature enters the field.
Finally, the last soft wincon is Finale of Devastation. I call it soft because the deck really isn't designed to go aggro and attack with its creatures. But basically, if you have a lot of creatures and find an opportunity, you can use a really big finale to finish off the last few players at the table maybe after you used Aetherflux Reservoir to take out a few other players. The finale is honestly just there as a creature tutor with access to both your deck and graveyard.
Overall, the deck is really resilient because you really don't care too much about what your opponents are doing, you just want to mill yourself and gain life to either win off of Thassa's Oracle/Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, or by deathstaring everyone via Aetherflux Reservoir.
Hope this helps, and feel free to let me know if you have any thoughts or suggestions! ^_^
1 month ago
NV_1980 hey you two again. Thanks for popping in and pointing out a weak slot. I run Drake/Displacer in my Roon flicker deck to great effect. Will be swapping Drake out in this list for Venser, Shaper Savant
1 month ago
My sideboard continues to change frequently. I have a 4th Archmage's Charm, Cyclonic Rift, and Day's Undoing at the ready. Surgical Extraction seems likely to stay in. But the rest are merely placeholders. I’m not exactly sure what I should replace them with. Pongify is still a valid option. Having early removal may prove highly beneficial. Mystical Dispute and Stubborn Denial are also useful counters against other blue/counter decks.
Now Relic of Progenitus is a very useful card, although is does have its drawbacks.
It can consistently remove cards from your opponents graveyard. But it’s second ability works against you because it will exile your graveyard as well. It does not work well with Day's Undoing. It is also not blue, nor is it an instant or sorcery, therefore you cannot combo it with Thing in the Ice Flip or exile it with Force of Negation.
Surgical Extraction Is nice, it can be cast for free, it can be cast at any time, it can also be recycled with Mystic Sanctuary. The downside is that you must always pay 2 life to cast it (this deck has no lifegain whatsoever). Both cards have their downsides and neither one fits exactly, although Surgical Extraction works slightly better for this kind of deck.
Vendilion Clique is a useful card on its own, yet it doesn’t fit exactly into the deck. I don’t have enough bounce in the deck to consistently utilize Clique’s ability several times over. Now the 3/1 flying is nice, but I already have that with Brazen Borrower. The upside to the Clique is that you get to look at your opponents Hand and get rid of a problematic card. However, Borrower can act as an Instant spell (Which can trigger Thing in the Ice Flip. Borrower can also remain in exile, this way it won’t be Bounced by Thing in the Ice nor will it be shuffled back into the deck by a Day's Undoing.
Kefnet the Mindful used to be in the deck. It was paired with Day’s Undoing to immediately become a 5/5 flyer. The problem is that he takes to long to setup. His 4 mana draw/land bounce ability won’t be useful until the late game. In the end, he ends up taking space in the hand or field, but doesn’t actually do anything (with a hand of 7 cards Kefnet is formidable, as soon as you start to play spells, Kefnet is useless again, essentially, Kefnet discourages spellcasting).
Aether Spellbomb was a card I enjoyed playing in the main deck. However, I found that it couldn’t combat every situation. Eventually it made its way into the sideboard as I needed to make space for Brazen Borrower (a mich more useful and potent card). Even though it has saved me in the past, I am thinking that it just can’t keep up with the rest of the deck. For one, it cannot be exiled with Force of Negation, for another, it is not an instant or sorcery, therefore it cannot trigger Thing in the Ice Flip. I think it has served it’s purpose in the past, but I don’t see it coming back into the deck.
This is what I would end up with when considering what I want to keep in my sideboard:
1x Archmage’s Charm 1x Cyclonic Rift 1x Day’s Undoing 3x Surgical Extraction 4x Mystical Dispute
I still have 5 slots left to fill.
I’m thinking about perhaps adding some sort of protection against burn decks, maybe some more countermeasures against other counter/control decks, and I also feel like my defenses against Aggro may need to be tightened up.