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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Liliana, Death's Majesty
Planeswalker — Liliana
+1: Create a 2/2 black Zombie creature token. Mill two cards. (Put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.)
-3: Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.
-7: Destroy all non-Zombie creatures.
1 week ago
I had a longer post but it got lost in the shuffle. Anyways, I like what you're doing here and hope some of these janky ideas will work!
I like Grasp of Fate in a deck like this. If you know who is able to remove it you can make a point of not targeting anything too serious of theirs, in some metas it's not hard to keep this out (lots of decks without Green or White). Stroke of Midnight is another reasonable removal spell with a high level of versatility.
Since you run a lot of wipes and removal I feel like Kothophed, Soul Hoarder is a pretty solid include. As long as he kills what he blocks he'll draw a card each time, any removal that sends stuff to the graveyard is much better, and your wipes can easily feel like Decree of Pain, obviously not great if everyone is on infinite creature combo (in which they don't win that turn as well) but if people have ~10 creatures out you'll get a new hand. Kothophed also draws cards vs things like Fetchlands and Treasure/Clue tokens, I think he's more risky if you don't have a good counter package.
Have you thought about something like Sakashima the Impostor to copy Ioreth? If you have your Commander out she can kill off the entire table except the best thing, which you can keep.
Liliana, Death's Majesty is a nice fit in cards that like the idea of a wipe but might already have several, this Liliana makes tokens and can reanimate stuff in a pinch, but it's the wipe that's extra spicy.
War Tax is a janky card that can be used to protect your planeswalkers, but it can also be used politically, though it suffers a lot of people don't keep their word, the way I like to use it is to make deals with people, they agree either to not send at me (or send less at me), and if they do I don't tax, if they don't I either tax or remove stuff of theirs as punishment. It's really good if the next player is the most aggressive, and the effect is worse if you have 'better' things to do with your resources, but this is a mana sink that people really sleep on.
5 months ago
Cards id Consider adding:
Diabolic Tutor should be in the deck
Killing Wave should add this great finisher and liliana text
Command the Dreadhorde Liliana with great artwork and a nice finisher
Mutilate great board wipe with Liliana text
Liliana's Specter goes with the current theme
Oath of Liliana good removal and on theme
Liliana's Scrounger great for all the planeswalkers and removal
Liliana's Scorn bad removal but also works as a tutor
Liliana's Reaver fits into the discard theme
Liliana's Influence tutor and kind of a board wipe
Liliana's Indignation direct damage and fill graveyard
Liliana's Elite weak but gets stronger with graveyard
Liliana's Contract kind of bad draw but on theme
Liliana, Death Wielder old planeswalker but could be fun
Liliana, Death's Majesty token maker and is pretty good
Liliana's Shade Bad but kind of ramp
Entomb great card
Reanimate great card
Gravecrawler great card for combo but idk if it fits here
Settle the Score bad removal but helps with planeswalkers
Triumph of Cruelty on theme with discard
Demonic Tutor Liliana art work and quote
Finale of Eternity finisher and removal
Professor Onyx on theme and decent
Baleful Force bad top end but cool quote
Mind Rot Liliana quate and discard theme
Swap to these lands: https://scryfall.com/card/fjmp/22/liliana
5 months ago
For those interested, here is the list of removed cards, added cards, as well as total current deck stats.
- 6 Island
- 6 Swamp
- Dreadhorde Invasion
- Liliana, Death's Majesty
- Drown in Dreams
- Plumb the Forbidden
- Reality Shift
- Final Parting
- Ghouls' Night Out
- Charcoal Diamond
- Sky Diamond
- Gleaming Overseer
- Hordewing Skaab
- Undead Alchemist
- Evolving Wilds
- Exotic Orchard
- Malakir Mire Flip
- Mystic Sanctuary
- Obscura Storefront
- Reflecting Pool
- Secluded Courtyard
- Terramorphic Expanse
- Unclaimed Territory
- Verdant Catacombs
- Mystic Remora
- An Offer You Can't Refuse
- Blue Sun's Zenith
- Rapid Hybridization
- Read the Bones
- Bident of Thassa
- Dimir Signet
- Fellwar Stone
- Herald's Horn
- Pyre of Heroes
- Thaumatic Compass Flip
- Urza's Incubator
- Champion of the Perished
- Fell Stinger
- Liliana's Standard Bearer
- Murderous Rider
- Shambling Ghast
Misc deck stats: Ramp: 13 Draw: 19 Tutors: 4
5 months ago
Max_Hammer I do actually have Liliana, Dreadhorde General, she's just in another deck (which would probably benefit more from Liliana of the Dark Realms, it's a whole thing). I think you're right, Varina will involve more milling and would enjoy Liliana, Death's Majesty. I've never considered Liliana, Death Mage, thank you!
You know what, I'm getting a very subtle sense that you don't like Nevvy, but I'm not so sure.
No, I definitely hear you, I think the biggest challenge in building that deck will be to make it fun to play against. The other deck I'm referencing (the one that my Dreadhorde General is currently in), I BEG YOUR F@CKING PARDON??!!! - Razaketh, is so far proving to be a failure at that. I was hoping to make something chaotic that results in a laugh, I ended up building a deck where the wincons involve no interaction with the other players, I just tutor and cast two cards (Fraying Omnipotence and Wound Reflection), and it really doesn't matter what the actual board state looks like. Everyone calls it my bullshit deck, it's not overpowered or tuned in any real way, it just lives in its own world and ends the game way too suddenly to be fun.
So with Nevvy, I like him because he seems to bring that same self-destructive chaos I was hoping to capture (and, down the line, will hope to capture again when I build a Rakdos the Defiler deck), my challenge will be to have that chaos without it feeling like I'm stopping others from playing. It's why I'm exploring a few different commanders, I want to see what leads to the most fun Zombie deck, without it being the exact same Zombie deck that everyone plays/expects to see.
As an aside, I do also have a proliferate deck in mind, but it'd be to pull off shenanigans like Vraska, Scheming Gorgon's -10.
5 months ago
www.ProxyMore.com (Not an actual website)
If you don't like that idea, here's some actual suggestions.
For Grimgrin Liliana, Death's Majesty is just a good all-rounder and makes easy-to-sac tokens.
For Varina, same thing. Easy to swing with and not care too much about and it mills. If not her, then Liliana, Death Mage will work well for both of them.
For Nevvy, don't. Don't do Nevvy, I beg of you. At least infect/proliferate kills me quickly through sedation. Please, no-
6 months ago
If you're interested in playing fair, then you might like Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest. This can take a board full of utility creatures and make them very formidable very quickly. Hell's Caretaker is a card I find useful that doesn't go infinite with anything I know of, it just lets you sneak stuff in once per turn. If you don't include anything like Pitiless Plunderer you can set up repeatable sacrifice loops to generate XP for Meren, probably to reanimate a Protean Hulk or someting else juicy. For this you might use Gravecrawler or Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and probably a 1 drop Knight to have something you can keep killing over and over. Any card that cares about creatures dying will go off, so some stuff that draws on death might be nice, Liliana, Dreadhorde General is a versatile card that fits the bill.
In my experience, the best thing you can tutor up is usually Protean Hulk, Sidisi, or Razaketh, any of these tends to spiral out of control in a deck that can reanimate them on the end step or sooner. Hulk can find various creatures to solve whatever problems you have, but you probably need a sac outlet to ensure it dies right away, the others are more generous. Razaketh notoriously likes abusing Life / Death to set up a pretty quick win when you're ready, you can find stuff like rituals to generate enough mana to go off.
If you want another reanimator that isn't picky, there is Demon of Dark Schemes that helps clear the board of weenies, and as long as you don't have cards that generate mana the Demon won't go infinite with something like Mitotic Slime or Underworld Hermit, they'll just give you lots of triggers for your extra mana. Demon also likes Merciless Executioner type creatures, they can easily generate Energy. Another reanimator I often forget reanimates stuff is Liliana, Death's Majesty, this brings back stuff as a Zombie if you don't want the ultimate, and she survives some wipes as a PW that can make 2/2s while milling you. Some people don't like PWs so ymmv.
I suspect that if you're not sure if you need more wipes, you might want to try one or two more. In Black there is Make an Example that is very brutal as you always hit your priority target for each opponent. It won't clear the board, but it can help manage it, and you can follow it up with a bunch of forced sacrifice. One card that likes seeing a wipe happen (that makes running extra feel less problematic) is Ogre Slumlord, if you run enough 'pay life'effects you might want Sangromancer, and if you think you can kill enough of your opponent's permenants then Kothophed, Soul Hoarder might work out, that can turn a Damnation into a big draw spell.
If your deck is finding it hard to stay alive, you can use Dawnstrider to save you on needing to reanimate a Spore Frog, though I use both as I find Meren can be annoying to certain players.
If you like Phyrexian Arena and aren't using 'win on the spot combos', have you considered Protection Racket? This can draw plenty of non-land cards or deal damage to your opponents, both seem good as long as you don't care if you lose some random 1-3 drops. There is also Black Market Connections, this can provide various resources without being as busted/all-or-nothing as Necropotence.
Hope some of this is helpful! Any Commander that requires a lot of tutoring is very frustrating to learn to play, Commander is incredibly hard to master, but it's easy to get better with practice!
8 months ago
When I was testing out your deck, I definitely noticed mana issues, you probably want a mix of a couple more lands and some mana rocks. There is the odd mana dork you could use, none generally as good as a Green one. I always like Dreamscape Artist in a Dimir deck that makes use of the graveyard, it's actual Harrow so the lands are entering untapped, making the ramp a bit better than it might usually be. With a 5 mana Commander I think I would run Sol Ring, especially without Green, there is also Talisman of Dominance and Dimir Signet that are solid. A really solid 3 mana rock is Skyclave Relic, it can be a 3 drop or a big (and versatile) efficient 6 drop. Not sure if you need all of those, but I think you want some of those ramp options. TBH, you might also lower your average Mana Value, you're well over 3, which might be a tad high for 33 lands in a reasonably competitive deck. A couple handy utility lands that are nice with Voltron decks include Witch's Clinic, Shizo, Death's Storehouse, and Tyrite Sanctum. Sanctum is a bit weird, but getting Indestructible on your Commander will probably feel pretty good. There are also some MDFCs that aren't bad in Black, you could replace one of your 2 mana Black removal creature removal with Hagra Mauling Flip, risking 4 mana to remove something (with no restriction though) is harsh, but it's also a land which feels incredible in a lower land count deck. I hear Malakir Rebirth Flip is also very good, especially with a Voltron Commander.
I also noticed that the deck seemed to not excel at clearing the board of threats/problems, this can include combo pieces or Voltron creatures. From a competitive standpoint, if you expect to play against decks that are 7s or above you probably want at least a couple more solid counters, it's hard to know which to run because actual Counterspell costs UU, which is hard to hold up obviously, but Swan Song and Negate might not be versatile enough, but I think any or all of those would make the deck more functional. Niche removal like Ravenform, Resculpt and Feed the Swarm are also worth a look, you never know when you'll need to tutor up an answer for either of those types, and being able to hit a creature is also useful, fwiw Black isn't great at exiling creatures. I see you only have 1 Planeswalker in here, have you thought about Liliana, Death's Majesty? She's got some synergy with Zombies for sure, and offers a potential wipe.
A tutor that might fit in here that you're not running is Final Parting, which is clunky at 5 mana but it also offers a two for 1 tutor, so even if it's a lot of mana it does a lot of work. I'm not sure how many cards you're that desperate to get into the graveyard, but Final Parting finds 2 of 3 pieces for Gravecrawler combos in my Meren deck, very handy if I have one in hand already.
Pretty tough finding stuff that sticks out for being suboptimal in this list! Here are a few I suspect could be upgraded: Reassembling Skeleton is a Skeleton. The recursion aspect is not particularly good at 2 mana for a non-Zombie body, with a max of one on board at a time. Undead Alchemist might do something sometimes, but I feel like it's a bad interaction with a lot of your deck, it's terrible with Living Death type stuff obviously, and if someone is close to death, this gives them way more life. Call to the Grave seems potentially iffy, you run some very good non-Zombies, and you can't sac a token instead to it, it eats only non-Zombies. Kindred Discovery seems questionable potentially, it negatively interacts with any combo that uses a zombie entering or dying repeatedly since you have to draw, this can also make you unable to swing with a huge zombie army, which seems agonizing without at least throwing in something like Capsize. More curious than certain, but do you often have 1 toughness things to work with Skullclamp? Any Zombie at 1 toughness is buffed by your lords, and the tokens you make are 2/2s iirc? If you ask me, unless you have a source of 1 toughness bodies I'm missing, you could instead run Mask of Griselbrand, it can draw cards too (sometimes way more), both require a sac outlet, and it offers real utility in combo by offering evasion and lifelink. I would run any of the removal I mentioned over Doom Blade and Go for the Throat, I feel like the versatility and some offering exile has an edge. For Tragic Slip, do you get stuck without a sac outlet very often, this seems like an unnecessary complication to have on your removal, but at least it can hit Indestructibles? IMHO if you can afford it run Deadly Rollick, this will also exile stuff without as harsh a requirement (I'd rather have the downside of 4 mana vs removing only x/1s).
1 year ago
Hey, well done so far upgrading the precon, nice Phyrexian Altar.
Some cards from the precon to consider adding:
- Talisman of Dominance --> Sky Diamond
- Dreadhorde Invasion --> Eternal Skylord
- Curse of the Restless Dead --> Undead Alchemist
- Pact of the Serpent --> Battle at the Bridge
- Zombie Apocalypse --> Dread Summons
- Gisa and Geralf --> Ebondeath, Dracolich
- Feed the Swarm --> Polymorphist's Jest
- Liliana, Death's Majesty --> Liliana's Mastery
- Tainted Isle --> 1x Island
- Choked Estuary --> 1x Island
Talisman of Dominance ETB untapped to make either color. Another mana rock upgrade is Dimir Signet replacing Charcoal Diamond. Dreadhorde Invasion is a repeatable source of Zombie and Eternal Skylord is a much worse Hordewing Skaab. Curse of the Restless Dead is a more reliable repeatable source of Zombies than Undead Alchemist.
Pact of the Serpent is powerful tribal card for Zombies. Battle at the Bridge needs lots more artifacts to be playable. Zombie Apocalypse is powerful tribal card for Zombies especially when your Commander sacs Zombies to draw. Patriarch's Bidding is another mass reanimation tribal Zombie card. Dread Summons needs a ton of mana paid into it to be decent since you have no control over milling your own or opponent creatures.
Gisa and Geralf can be repeatable cast of Zombies from your graveyard which can do more than Ebondeath, Dracolich. Feed the Swarm is helpful to have enchantment removal in Dimir. Liliana, Death's Majesty can be repeatable Zombies and her other abilities are good too. She does more than Liliana's Mastery, but honestly you don't need either one of these cards since there's better five drops here or could add.
The more basic Islands you can replace with Dimir dual lands the better the manabase will be because black mana is much important than blue. Lots of basic Islands makes it more difficult to cast heavy black spells. Tainted Isle and Choked Estuary are playable lands in the precon that care about Swamps and you have a lot of Swamps.
Good luck with your deck.