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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Premodern | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Palinchron
Creature — Illusion
Flying
When Palinchron enters the battlefield, untap up to seven lands.
: Return Palinchron to its owner's hand.
![A Woman's Intuition [Infinite Combos Everywhere!] thumbnail](http://static.tappedout.net/chart/15-55-0-30-0-small.png)
Flarhoon13 on
Kenrith, the Cycling King
1 month ago
Inaugural game went perfectly. Time of Need got Zirda, the Dawnwaker. An early Fluctuator allowed me to cycle about 7 cards early. Zur the Enchanter got Astral Slide, Escape Protocol and Training Grounds. So, when Kenrith, the Returned King finally came out, all of his abilities were reduced to a single coloured mana. Razaketh's Rite got a Palinchron, probably should've gotten a Herald of the Forgotten. My opponent had been kind enough to mill my Scholar of the Ages so I could search with Razaketh's Rite again, this time for the Dimir House Guard to loop Palinchron via Kenrith, the Returned King for infinite mana and the win.
legendofa on
Memnarch by ChatGPT
1 month ago
ChatGPT seems to have a pretty good grasp that people sometimes do certain things, but not why people do certain things, or whether it's correct to do certain things. Here, Command Tower is basically a nonbasic Island, the fetch lands aren't much more than that, and Inkmoth Nexus is very optimistic with no other infect or proliferate. Chromatic Lantern is basically decoration. Training Grounds only interacts with three cards, but one of them is Palinchron, so I'll give half a point back.
On the better side, it picked up a lot of the standard control options, and Deadeye Navigator has some good options to work with, like Draining Whelk and Venser, Shaper Savant.
Made_Compleat on People's Thoughts on Mommy Norn?
4 months ago
Oh no! A functional monowhite commander! EVERYBODY PANIC!
Alright. I get that Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines is a big deal. A decent statline, vigilance, Yarok, the Desecrated as one ability and a much, much, much better version of Hushbringer as the other. She's certainly a powerhouse. But should she see the hammer? I think not.
I'll not say that Machine Mom isn't disruptive. She can shut down a good amount of popular cards in the format, such as Bramble Sovereign, Terror of the Peaks, and the notorious combo piece Palinchron. She can and will double up monowhite Oblivion Ring style effects. Honestly, I think that doubling Seal Away type cards is going to be the stax-ier part of Mama Machine. She doesn't shut down many combo decks (unless they use the aforementioned Palinchron), and really doesn't answer most cEDH decks. She hates out on ETBs, sure, but Yasharn, Implacable Earth hates out on sacrifice, arguably better. Gaddock Teeg is just absurdly good stax, and both Gaddok and Yasharn grant access to Green.
If you want to make Elesh Norn stax, then, ok, that's probably a deck that will give everyone a headache. But... are we going to cry "BAN HER!" for one way of building around Machine Mommy? If you want to run stax, go and buy a Hokori, Dust Drinker or Oloro, Ageless Ascetic. They're much better depriving everyone of fun than New Norn. Elesh Norn can do so much more than just stop everyone from having fun.
Honestly, a lot of the complaints that I see here are against the Stax archetype in general, not Norn. And I get that Norn seems like a good Stax commander, but... If hate stax, than complain about Hokori, or Oloro, or yes, even Archelos, Lagoon Mystic. Stax has its place: cEDH and masochistic playgroups.
Something that no one here is referencing is the Game Knights video in which Josh Lee Kwai played with a (proxied) Elesh Norn, and his deck was oppressive, but nothing too bad. Notably, Norn's restrictive ability saw a lot less use than her double ability, which was used to double small value abilities, as well as oblivion ring effects. The deck won the game, but it was very close and I wouldn't say it made Norn look banable. Not by a long shot.
So, in conclusion, Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines is a powerhouse, who certainly can be a problem, but probably isn't the worst card in EDH. Really, a lot of the complaints about her are complaints about Stax in general.
Thanks for reading my rant.
Also, did anyone else notice the fact that Navani (from Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive) and Elesh Norn have the same epithet? That always makes me crack up.
Davinoth on
Chulane's Epic Adventure [ETB/Bounce EDH]
1 year ago
     AscendedLandfalls: Hadn't considered Jin-Gitaxias, Progress Tyrant for this deck, but it would be pretty slick with all the bounce spells!
     Wandering Archaic  Flip is a card that just goes everywhere haha, but this deck is very hard for me to change, and without having any synergies with the rest of the deck I can't justify it's inclusion.
     Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy is a card I've considered a few times, but I think if I decide to add a mana doubling effect it'll be for my lands to better combo with Peregrine Drake & Great Whale.
     Shalai, Voice of Plenty actually used to be in the deck, but I eventually cut it for Asceticism.. which in the end I cut for an additional counterspell lol. Shalai is really good though, it or Asceticism may yet make it back in.
     Thanks for the comment! =)
Epicurus on
Satoru, the green ninja
1 year ago
A couple evasion creatures that I like to use with Ninjutsu are Soulsworn Spirit and Fogwalker, because of their reusable ETB triggers on top of being unlockable (or, at least hard to block, in the case of Fogwalker).
As for your big creatures, the Eldrazi are all awesome just for having big bodies, but remember that you don't get the "as you cast" triggers when you use Ninjutsu to cheat them onto the battlefield, nor would their attack triggers activate (i.e. Annihilator). So I would limit how many of them you use down to just Kozilek, the Great Distortion, because it has a good activated ability. I'd replace the others with creatures that either have ETB triggers or damage triggers.
I have a running list of creatures I'd like to use for Satoru, but I don't want to name off a million cards. The highlights, though, are:
And even that is a long list, so I apologize. Obviously, Palinchron would be great, even without the combo(s), but you already mentioned that.
Cheers!
plakjekaas on Questioning the Iona Banning
1 year ago
Wuzibo Buy some Chaos Warps
I'm getting a lot of "I get locked out playing my favorite deck so I wanna lock out players too"-vibes. The one difference between Iona and all other problematic cards you named, is that Iona can be your commander, making sure you still have access to it after Oblivion Stone etc. That's where it differs from Leyline of the Void which, yes, can be in play from turn 0, but there's going to be a lot of games where it won't, and it probably won't return after the O-stone.
Iona's also a creature, making sure cards like Ephemerate will customize the color chosen to whatever you need whenever you need it, protecting it from removal in the process.
If you want to lock people out of casting spells, there's still plenty of ways to do it, but it's by combining cards together, not 1 card that does the entire thing for you. With Palinchron you need a mana doubler, with Heartless Hidetsugu you need a damage doubler and a way not to die, with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade you need Knowledge Pool, with Decree of Silence you need Solemnity.
With Iona, Shield of Emeria you need nothing. With Paradox Engine you basically need anything, it's not restrictive enough in its synergies to not be overpowered, while leading to 20 minute turns where one player gets to play all the magic while the others get to watch.
If you're scared of Mindbreak Trap, just play Rule of Law. If your deck doesn't function because of a single card in play, it's badly built. You could still go Sol Ring into Thran Dynamo for Wurmcoil Engine t3 and kill the leyline player. That also stops it from being a problem. Those are all cards that would be amazing in a Daretti deck and doesn't need to break the color pie to get you out of a sticky situation. If you can only do Junk Diver Scrap Trawler loops, that's way more of a restriction on your deck and way easier to devise a backup strategy for than "playing a monocolor".
The rationale for banning Iona is that it leads to a play experience the rules committee wants to discourage, which is locking people out of playing the game. That's paraphrased from the ban article. Not locking out from winning, which is what you're talking about. Also, discourage, not prevent. You can still do it, but a flagship commander for that strategy that, no matter how you build her, it's gonna cause that bad time, that gets banned. Braids, Cabal Minion is banned for the same reason.
Your rationale of "they can now ban cards because they lead to unfun gameplay? They should ban every card that ever blocked my fun then" sounds very entitled, and hard to agree with. It makes you sound as much of a salty bad player as you blame the RC to be.
Wuzibo on Questioning the Iona Banning
1 year ago
I picked up Kaalia. It is hard for me to find a table where i'm not instantly the biggest threat at the table, and that's not even for stuff that's "unfun" to play against. It's just how aggro she is. I don't even run land destruction outside Myojin of Infinite Rage and Obliterate, which i have to hard cast, since i like to keep it casual-ish. I don't misplay them though. I blow up lands once kaalia is out, so then i win in short order, and i'd only obliterate if i was also casting Boros Charm at the same time or had something to make at least kaalia indestructible so it wasn't just making the game an hour longer. I guess that's not hate. That's just fear. Sheoldred is more "hate" inspiring.
Well there you go. Vanilla 2/3. Useless. Dies to bolt. Will probably be a waste to swing into someone because in all likelihood by the time i've cast him they have something bigger because they're running a lot more creatures they intended to bring to combat. If i use him to block i will probably just lose him and i'll really only be prolonging the inevitable. Might as well build a flavor text deck at that point. That way i can get a vanilla 2/3 for a lower mana cost or maybe even a 3/3 or 4/4 for the same cost.
That's not in "the spirit of commander". It just shuts down my strategy with very few counterplay options on my part to re-enable my strategy. Same as iona. There are answers to her, even if youre playing a mono-color and she names that color. Spine of Ish Sah, right? Mycosynth Lattice makes her a vanilla 7/7. It's just shutting down your primary strategy, which ostensibly included casting spells of a certain color or colors like most MTG decks do. Against Iona you can still cast nevinyrrals disk or O stone still. She doesn't stop that, so it's not That big a problem. You could still cast your sol ring and ornithopter or solemn simulacrum or your ramp myr. Ramp into a big artifact creature like Blightsteel Colossus. You can still do that. You can still play with Iona out. Yeah you're gimped, but it's not over. You're not actually hard locked out of the game. Especially now that they have intro to annihilation and scour from existence. I was playing back in the day when those weren't even things. There's colorless creature removal so she doesn't actually lock you out.
Fair enough. If they just said "it's arbitrary", I'd accept it a lot more. I don't put up some of my decklists because they're basically the same as something else, just with some minor tweaks usually due to what cards i have available to me. The only one i've really considered adding is my kaalia deck. Not enough people believe in the power of Sunforger, and I have not seen one person running the Hilarious "Tap to win at the cost of a quarter of your life" combo that is Heartless Hidetsugu and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight.
I just wish the rules committee would choose to balance around competetive play all the time instead of only some of the time and then leave it up to casual players to decide what they don't want at their table, and be more consistent. Like why is it fine that Palinchron isn't banned but Paradox Engine is. With a few lands that can tap for 2 mana (Caged Sun), it can usually just turn into infinite mana right then and there. You cast palinchron, bounce it, recast over and over again, Blue Sun's Zenith yourself, draw every card in your deck. Put zenith back as the only card in your deck. Draw it with a draw spell you drew. blue sun's zenith someone else for infinite... rinse repeat.
Half their bans make sense. The other half just make the RC look like salty bad players.
| Have (1) | Azdranax |
| Want (1) | ChaoticBananna |