|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2017 (C17)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2016 (C16)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2015 (C15)||Common|
|Modern Masters 2015 Edition (MM2)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Common|
|Duel Decks: Izzet vs. Golgari (DDJ)||Common|
|MTG: Commander (CMD)||Common|
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Izzet Boilerworks enters the battlefield tapped.
When Izzet Boilerworks enters the battlefield, return a land you control to its owner's hand.
: Add to your mana pool.
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Izzet Boilerworks Discussion
1 month ago
I don't think haste is your issue. Demons, like Angels (and Dragons) are all (For the most part) incredibly high in terms of CMC. Your land base can not support the "weight" of the high costing cards. I know you see these cards as essential, but they're not.
Let us start simple. (Pardon the Caps)
AVOID "ENTERS TAPPED" LANDS!!!!
Your deck lacks the necessary cards it needs to be allowed to have tapped lands. Lands that just produce a single mana (Don't care how many colors it can make) should be avoided here. Crumbling Necropolis, Rakdos Carnarium, and Izzet Boilerworks should all be removed and replaced with better lands. Crypt of Agadeem can stay, as it works well with what your deck is so far. I don't like Evolving Wilds & Terramorphic Expanse as the lands they bring have to be basic and enter tapped. (Good Early or Late game, but hurt if drawn Mid game) I especially don't like Myriad Landscape, enters tapped, fetches only for basic, and they enter tapped (In this deck, it doesn't matter if it's 2, it's still too "slow". Hell, it's not even a good mana fixer in certain situations)
I did the math for you. You require atleast 38 lands (That's personal experience)Out of those 38, atleast 32 should tap for colored mana. Out of those 32, 22 lands should be able to tap for black mana, 6 for red, and atleast 4 for blue. Some of these lands should be able to tap for atleast 2 of those colors.
Replacements for lands (These ain't cheap, but it fixing your mana base is essential to this deck running correctly, you don't have to take these suggestions, but your current choices are detrimental to your decks' current state: Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (Lots of Black Mana). Blood Crypt, Watery Grave, & Steam Vents are very very valuable in both senses, they will help fix your mana. Fetchlands are a maybe, but not a must if you can buy them, do so, otherwise, don't, same goes with the original duals (Underground Sea,Badlands, & Volcanic Island). You could use Battle Lands instead (There is no enemy colored cycle yet) those being Sunken Hollow and Smoldering Marsh.
If you don't want to get the shock's, you could try and removing the blue red cards that have more than 1 Red or Blue mana symbol. (As they seem like the two colors you are splashing, and having more than 1 mana symbol means more lands to generate that mana, or if you're cheap, more lands in general.
You're also gonna have to cut some of the more expensive cards that don't pull their weight or are not worth the expensiveness. I really think you run too many creatures and would recommend reducing the count to around 20/25.(Something like Bloodgift Demon for Phyrexian Arena)
Please consider these suggestions if you want this deck to function efficiently.
1 month ago
Post first draft, just about to switch to second draft:Thoughts on various cards:
Given the possibility of opening Cryptic Serpent (which is actually a blessing in some situations), by the time I draw this card, it's a 6/5 for an average of about 3 mana. Taking out the possibility of opening with it, I feel like it would be about 2.6. For a 6/ that's amazing!At its worst, Enigma Drake is a 0/4 defender with flying. In a deck like mine, its power goes up quickly. Late game, it can be a 3 mana drop for an 8/4. The unchanging nature of its toughness is somewhat problematic, but it becomes a scary heavy hitter that can kill almost any individual attacker.The only issue with these two is that they are highly vulnerable to generic creature removal, but this also helps draw attention away from my other creatures, which, given the effective mana costs of these two creatures makes this less of a blow than it should be.
Thermo-Alchemist and Gelectrode: The Ping Twins, the bread and butter creatures of my deck. Thermo-Alchemist is a pretty good defender, can ping a player during their end phase, and can do a lot of damage if lots of instants/sorceries are played.Gelectrode is probably the truest creature face of my deck. Relatively cheap, unassuming, incredibly powerful for its 0/1 stats, its ability to ping anything for 1, and untap like Thermo-Alchemist does is super helpful. It can't defend like [Thermo-Alchemist], but it can take down a large number of small creatures or 1 large creature in a single turn, especially when paired with burn spells.
As much as I want some sort of Chemist in my deck, Mercurial Chemister is too often a dead draw for my tastes. Its blue tap ability is fantastic, especially when paired with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, and its red tap ability can deal with huge creatures, but it tends to be a little too limited, and Mercurial Chemister is too vulnerable and expensive for what it is.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, on the other hand, is amazing. He's expensive, and I still don't really like his vanity (which is weird, considering that some of my favorite people are very vain) and how he runs the Izzet Guild (which, I understand comes from a general misunderstanding of the nature of Science, as his methods of running the guild would actually strongly discourage the kind of wildly free exploration he desires), but this version of him is lovely in this deck. Yes, i've heard that Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius is better, but for this deck, the Firemind version is lovely. One free point of damage for every card draw makes my deck extremely dangerous. I can draw a parge number of cards per turn using instants and/or sorceries, and alongside the Ping Twins, can completely wipe the board or do massive damage to finish off a player. He is a massive target for creature removal, especially counterspells, as a RRUU2 is gonna show up later than sooner, but that still protects my other cards (and flavor wise, is Nivvy stepping down to let his researchers do the job).
Avacyn's Judgment works well with the Ping Twins, but being a sorcery limits its usefulness. Maybe less than I think, because I rarely leave untapped lands at the end of my turn, but not being able to hit opponents and their creatures on their turn can be limiting sometimes.
Blast of Genius is nice, but kind of too expensive for what it's worth. Draw three, discard one to burn a player/creature is nice, but it's been a dead draw a lot of the time, and so it may be better to replace it with a larger number of smaller draw and burn spells.
Electrolyze is fantastic. I was right to put it at 4. It would be nice if I could choose to double up on draw or burn instead of going half and half, but an RU1 card that could do 1 draw 2 divided burn, 2 draw, or 4 divided burn would be insanely broken in a deck like this, so i'm more than happy to use it!
Invoke the Firemind, oh Invoke the Firemind, i'm so sorry! I wanted to like you, because flavor wise, you're everything I want! Massive draw or massive burn? What's not to like? Well, it's way too expensive. RUU2 for 2 points of burn that can't be divided, or RUU2 for 2 draw? It's versatile, but not as much as I thought. Having to decide between burn or draw, and not even being able to divide the burn up, makes this way too expensive to run as anything more than a one-off, and only for flavor.
Divination is nice, but not too many copies.Serum Visions is one of those cards that, if it wasn't as expensive (cash wise), i'd consider running 4, but only if I didn't mind feeing too cheap. Arguably, it's an expy of Ancestral Recall/Ancestral Vision, but if so, a far more balanced version. Still, even if it might not reach its full potential in this deck, one blue mana for a draw and Scry 2 is extremely good.
I kinda like the flavor of Take Inventory, but......most of the time, it's a draw one for 1U. Sometimes I get 2 draw for 1U, so that's nice. Rarely, I get a draw three for 1U, which gets close to Ancestral Recall levels of power, and the hypothetical 4 draw for 1U possibly exceeds Ancestral Recall levels of power, but the way Take Inventory works, it's not as likely as I thought to see this twice or three times a game, and since this is a card you don't want to run at any number besides 4 or 0, i'm going with 0.
Grip of the Roil is as nice as I remember it from Magic Duels, though depending on the type of deck, it may not be as useful as I recall, especially for my own deck. I usually deal with problematic creatures by burning them to death, but this can still give me momentum, or save me in a tight spot.
Izzet Charm is better than I make it look. The options for burn one creature for 2, draw 2 then discard 2, or counter unless player pays 2, all for RU? That's pretty good. Unfortunately, the way I use it, it becomes a Jack of all trades, too unfocused for use. I may just drop it all together for room.
I underestimated Izzet Boilerworks. The power of these guild bounce lands (I think I recall each Ravnican guild having one) is that they basicallt give you a free land in the hand if used right. It isn't actually mana acceleration, and getting it too early can be problematic, but for turns where you don't need that one land you get for the turn, it can be a great way to ensure that you don't run out of lands by letting you replace one of your tapped lands. I'm gonna try replacing one Sulfur Falls with one Izzet Boilerworks, but if it becomes too much i'll undo that.
The sideboard trio:I love the flavor of Thing in the Ice Flip, but it doesn't really belong in this deck. Sure, it can easily wipe out the opponent's board, and then block most any creature they use in response, but it destroys all of my creatures, doesn't solve the issue my deck has with swarming, and against a horror based deck, this could potentially hurt me more than my opponent.
Keranos, God of Storms is fine in this deck, but not as great as I had hoped. For five mana, an enchantment (because let's be honest, my deck contains relatively few nonland permanents) that let's me either draw an extra card or get a free lightning bolt is great, but it's just a tad unreliable. I'll keep one on the sideboard for funsies, but just for funsies.
I haven't tested The Locust God yet, but looking at it, it very wel may be precisely what my deck needs to protect against its weaknesses. I have an issue with enemy players overwhelming me with numbers, because while the Ping Twins and burn spells combined can wipe a wide field of creatures, if my opponent just keeps throwing giant fields of creatures at me, they will eventually overwhelm me. Having my own mini army of 1/1 flying blockers that can attack when they are first created if so desired can be immensely useful, and a draw focused deck can do a lot with this. The only issue is that to run it effectively, I must run it at 3 like Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind. I get the feeling that in the end, i'll prefer to just run 4 Nivvies, and will delegate The Locust God to the sideboard for funsies, but we'll have to see how it goes.
Cards i'm considering:
Curiosity is a card I didn't initially care for much, but then i remembered what I had realized about it about a year ago: it doesn't specify combat damage. Not only does this make it go well with cards like Thermo-Alchemist, but gives me access to a dangerously powerful loop with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind. Whenever I draw a card (including during the draw phase of a turn), Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind deals one damage to a target creature or player. If I have Curiosity equipped to it, and I deal that one damage to a player, I have the option to draw a card.....which allows Nivvy-Mizzy to deal another 1 damage. Loop until desired (probably when the opponent's life total is a pile of ashes). Not useful enough to run too many copies of it, but i'll start with 2 and go from there.
Twin Bolt is Avacyn's Judgment, but an instant and without the madness effect. The madness effect is nice, but i'm not running a madness deck, so for now i'm gonna switch out for Twin Bolt and see if that makes any difference.
Cathartic Reunion has adorable and lovely flavor, and gives me at least a little red draw, which is cheaper and gets me more cards than blue, at the cost of more risk.
Fevered Visions is kinda nice, but has issues with not being an instant/sorcery and could help my opponent a fair bit as well.
Frantic Search has powerful uses, as it lets me draw and then continue my turn with the new cards, but does require a sacrifice of cards, so let's play it carefully for now.
Hieroglyphic Illumination has potential, as I can either save it or cycle it, giving it versatility.
See Beyond may be a good way to get draw power without making my deck especially weak to milling.
Thought Scour is nice and cheap, and messes with the opponent, but might end up taking up too much space in my deck.
Thoughtflare might be a good choice for my deck. A little expensive, but not only does it allow me to pick n+1 out of n+3 (where n is my initial hand size before playing Thoughtflare, but drawing 4 while Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind is out on the field can be dish out 4 divisibile points of damage. Plus, it oozes the flavor i'm looking for: sudden bursts of inspiration!
Tormenting Voice may be another good source of red draw.
I stumbled upon Treasure Cruise in a deck I playtested my deck against, and it's easy to underestimate. I think it would cause problems with Cryptic Serpent and Enigma Drake, so for now i'll forego it.
Finally, Compulsive Research not only fits flavor wise (the compulsive instinct of curiosity), but has a leve of versatility due to your choice of discarding one land or two nonlands.
I'm going to use what I wrote here to make my second draft and test the waters, and then go from there!
1 month ago
My suggestions is to add similiar cards for more consistancy:
Cut Fireball down to 1x since you wont want to draw it until you combo off.
remove the hexproof spells to add more card draw in perminent form like Elvish Visionary, Abundant Growth, Ichor Wellspring and/or Carven Caryatid to help you get to your combo pieces better. Once you have initiate mana with the combo you can target the wall and one of these cards to find your wincon fireball.
Run Archaeomancer as Mnemonic Wall 5-8
Displace for copies of ghostly flicker 5-8.
you can try Cloud of Faeries and Izzet Boilerworks+Simic Growth Chamber as a second way to get initiate mana. You would need two of those lands in play to make 4 mana using the 3 to recast Flicker - netting one each cast
I would try it like: 8x - 1 drop mana dorks, 8x - 2 drop draw perminent, 3x Cloud of faeries, 4x Archaemancer, 4x Mnemonic Wall, 4x Penegrine Drake, 4x Displace, 4x Ghostly Flicker, 1x Fireball, 20x Lands - with 4x izzet boilerworks 4x simic growth chamber 4x Halimir depths 8x forest
2 months ago
Since Shu Yun benefits from a lot of noncreature spells, some counter spells and exile effects would be useful. Enchantment and artifact removal like Forsake the Wordly and Solemn Judgment would be useful. Norn's Annex, Propaganda, and Ghostly Prison can make it harder for opponent's to swing at you. Counter spells like Swan Song, Essence Scatter, Rebuff the Wicked, Mana Tithe, and Countermand provide protection and the necessary control aspect you might be looking for. Other creatures with Prowess and similar effects would benefit from what you have in mind. Monastery Swiftspear, Pristine Skywise, Cunning Breezedancer, and Pyre Hound to name a few. The Ravnica bounce lands you will want to add would be Azorius Chancery, Izzet Boilerworks, Boros Garrison, and the tricolor land Mystic Monastery. You can also add the other dual lands, Tranquil Cove, Wind-Scarred Crag, Prairie Stream, Irrigated Farmland, Inspiring Vantage, and Spirebluff Canal. Some must have artifacts are Elixir of Immortality, Venser's Journal, Chromatic Lantern, Jeskai Banner, and Argentum Armor. Hope this helps!
2 months ago
2 months ago
I'm surprised you're not running Oracle of Mul Daya, it's a pretty standard creature for decks like this. Same with Scapeshift. Or the dual color Karoo lands, Simic Growth Chamber, Gruul Turf, Izzet Boilerworks, Boros Garrison, Azorius Chancery, or Selesnya Sanctuary.
2 months ago
Hey I hope you're still working on this! You commented on my deck and it took me a bit to get back as well. I know I +1'd a long ass time ago lol
Since you are going all creatures: you need to find ones that fulfil roles of noncreature spells.
Wood Elves, Farhaven Elf, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Coiling Oracle, maybe Ondu Giant. You have Solemn Simulacrum and Birds of Paradise which are fantastic. There's really expensive ramp too, like Bloom Tender and Lotus Cobra
I could not agree more with hintseeker's first point about drawing cards and utilizing colorless creatures. That's the meat n potatoes of the deck
I like Shaman of the Great Hunt; but not everybody does! It can chug along and turns all your creatures into pseudo-vampires. What's not to like? Thrasios, Triton Hero has a similar draw ability. Rashmi, Eternities Crafter is rad. Prime Speaker Zegana can be huge. Vizier of the Menagerie is a cool new card. Elvish Visionary and Wall of Blossoms just went back into my deck. I don't run Sages of the Anima since I'm running noncreature spells I want to draw, but it would be great in here once you've decided you've played enough lands. Filter them out for multiple creatures per draw. Oracle of Mul Daya is a thing too, and Magus of the Future
To put Cloud of Faeries, Peregrine Drake, Great Whale, and Palinchron into perspective; imagine the payoff of untapping all your lands after casting multiple creature spells and just keep going. Now bounce one of them with Shrieking Drake/Dream Stalker/Man-o'-War, cast again, keep going. With enough +1/+1 counters on animar: Temur Sabertooth can bounce them for infinite mana and infinite animar counters (Cloud of Faeries needs lands like Izzet Boilerworks/Gruul Turf/Simic Growth Chamber). Deadeye Navigator can also gain infinite mana via "Flicker" effect. Lastly, Tidespout Tyrant bouncing any two colorless and/or land-untapping creatures you control goes infinite. Whether it's eldrazi or morph doesn't matter. Ancestral Statue alone bounces itself into an infinite animar
Obviously I've given way too many suggestions. Choose what works for you and your budget. Also every playgroup/meta is different.
Cards I would take out: Ancient Silverback, Enclave Elite, Frontier Guide, Hanweir Lancer, AEther Membrane, Primal Clay, Young Wolf, etc. Instead of running something like Grazing Gladehart; invest in a Purphoros, God of the Forge mwahahaha
Above all, have fun! Cheers!
3 months ago
Torrent Elemental is not a legal card with Surrak as the commander. Both colors of the hybrid mana in either the casting cost or ability activation cost must exist in the commander's color identity. So, for example, you could play Giant Solifuge in this deck (not that I would, but it is legal to do so) but it would be illegal to play Nightveil Specter.
Frost walker and Cyclone sire are more 60-card format cards.
Torrent elemental is illegal.
Gruul turf and Izzet boilerworks seem good, but they're really just strip mine/wasteland bait.
Gruul charm is bad. Be greener and invest in trample.
Nissa's Renewal is late game ramp. That's bad. Early game ramp is better.
Burn is bad in EDH.
I would suggest (these are all just good cards for your consideration, I know there are probably more than I suggested taking out):
For a 3 color deck, the landbase would also be improved by taking out basics and putting in things like:
Ideally, for a landbase you'd have shock lands such as Steam Vents, fetch lands such as Scalding Tarn, and regular dual lands such as Volcanic Island, but those things are expensive and this is a game.