Bane of Progress
Creature — Elemental
When Bane of Progress enters the battlefield, destroy all artifacts and enchantments. Put a +1/+1 counter on Bane of Progress for each permanent destroyed this way.
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Bane of Progress Discussion
1 week ago
GoldenDiggle thanks for suggesting these on theme cards!
I had tried detrivore before and couldn't get it work well enough. I think it'd be good after a land wipe but having to suspend it to get value early game is very slow.
I like your suggestions for the big creatures though, anything in the deck look weak to you?
1 week ago
The Goat Show
2: Ibex requires a full turn to start doing things. In a 4-player game, somebody will have an answer.
3: If you have a large creature and a lot of little creatures to make your ibex worthwhile, chances are you have just played Avenger of Zendikar and your opponent should Damnation, but because they allowed an avenger to resolve and not the ibex
3: Ibex is 6 mana for a 3/3. This is not what you want to be doing.
4: "Insert Primer Comments Here". His draw synnergies that you mentioned occur during the second main phase. Why are you playing a buff spell that allows you a second mainphase where your opponents are still alive. Life's legacy and garruk are second mainphase and due ot trample you are not sacrificing mid combat.
4.5: If you are attacking with any of your monsters, you should already be winning or playing a better pump spell. Ibex is not the keystone here, avenger/craterhoof/vorinclex/and if you add it Blightsteel Colossus are and would be.5: Triumph of the Hordes wins on the spot and requires less. Ibex does not do either of those.
Expanding upon Traverse the Outlands:
1: If you have a creature large enough to make traverse effective, then you already winning.
2: Assuming that traverse is a worthwhile play (i.e. a creature with power >6), then you are not looking to ramp. You are looking to find a card to seal the deal (Craterhoof Behemoth)
3: In comparison to other more powerful ramp spells, traverse cannot gaurantee you a large amount of mana. Mana Reflection, if played with 6 lands, will probably start you with 12 mana on your next turn (excluding Sol Ring and other variables).
4: If you play Traverse the Outlands and you have a 7/7 Bane of Progress out, chances are that you are looking to capitalize on your opponents lack of artifacts/enchantments, start killing people with your massive creatures, and would rather dig for answers (i.e. Recycle).
5: Traverse the Outlands is very easy to counter with spot removal. While turn 4 Rhonas -> Turn 5 traverse seems like a realistic and legitimately good play, it dies to the rafiq player responding with Swords to Plowshares and you feeling sad that you spent 5 mana on a Rampant Growth.
6: Lastly, traverse only searches for basic lands. This means that you cannot get nykthos, gaea's cradle, glaical chasm, and or boseiju... This is a serious problem.
The rest Show
"This deck doesn't draw lands." Whenever you are drawing a multitude of cards, you will be doing lands. Exploration makes the additional dead draws not as oppressive.
Recycle falls into many traps that I have mentioned when talking about the ibex... except for one. If you are in a losing position, it will put you into a winning position. It is one of the few cards that can help you recover from a Toxic Deluge/Merciless Eviction. Praetor's Counsel is the other card. Recycle is also one of the best draw spells in green, as in it is a 1-card combo. This makes it worthwhile.
If you are wondering about my credibility on mono green, feel free to check out My Mono Green Deck. While it functions differently from yours, it is still mono green and usually reliant on two paths to victory (combo or big creatures).
1 week ago
1 week ago
yes, crawler was in the infant stages of this list along with other slow creatures like Jace's Archivist
nekusar definitely does have a bounty on his head a majority of the time, which is why I run a decent amount of countermagic and control/permission
like most "efficient" edh decks, this deck does not require the use of its commander to win effectively, and he is often used as a blocker, or I simply cast him when my opponents are tapped out or when i have a counterspell in hand and can protect him enough to start wheeling, but he certainly does get answered more than the other cards in the deck, but i dont need to cast him to be able to kill opponents with mill or damage from cards like Chains of Mephistopheles, Underworld Dreams or Liliana's Caress
generally, the most trouble i have had is from selesyna or creature combo decks, since I run a very limited amount of potential blockers, and being spell-central renders me weak to token swarm, which is the main reason I run mainly utility creatures and a lot of creature answers like Evacuation, Damnation, Toxic Deluge, Cryptic Command or Rakdos Charm, and in the earlier stages i ran things such as Propaganda and Crawlspace, and Torpor Orb
secondly, I've found that Aura Shards or Bane of Progress effects really gimp the deck, since outside of nekusar himself a lot of my wheel value comes from artifacts and enchantments such as Dream Halls, Waste Not, Underworld Dreams, Teferi's Puzzle Box, or mana rocks, also hoser cards such as Spirit of the Labyrinth can stop wheels, and since grixis lacks any real form of enchantment removal, I will have to rely only on countermagic or bounce to answer aura shards or the like
other than hatebears, token swarm and stax effects that gimp spell decks such as Nether Void being my main weakness, I also find that wheeling a lot enables the HELL out of flashback or reanimator decks like Kess, Dissident Mage, Sedris, the Traitor King, or Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, due to wheels filling up graveyards relatively fast.
to combat this, i run graveyard hate such as Rakdos Charm and Bojuka Bog, and previously,Leyline of the Void. the reason being that when i wheel multiple times and they have a large graveyard with threats like Golgari Grave-Troll and Past in Flames, i can then exile those threats, which then allows me to cast Timetwister for maximum advantage as I shuffle away 50 cards while they get zero
essentially the main weaknesses of a wheel spell deck would be decks that take advantage of wheel effects or my lack of blocks, so creature heavy, reanimator, or stax decks usually give me trouble with combat damage, graveyard recursion, and combo denial respectively.
hope that was informative enough!
1 week ago
A few suggestions: Gauntlet of Power, Caged Sun, Kodama's Reach, Cultivate, Rampant Growth, Explosive Vegetation, Wave of Vitriol, Krosan Grip, Bane of Progress, Naturalize, Swiftfoot Boots, Lightning Greaves, Asceticism
3 weeks ago
Also, if you are running a creature lite deck, I would recommend running cards like Life's Finale and Card:Sadistic sacrament to remove cards like Bane of Progress. Lobotomizing effects are also very good vs combo decks, removing cards like Deadeye Navigator/Peregrine Drake.
1 month ago
Does this deck have any way of defending against cards like Bane of Progress? Unless I'm missing something this deck could be destroyed by cards that sweeps like that.
1 month ago
Long story short, that's because this deck is alarmingly different from the herd and that is the whole reason I've gone about writing this primer :)
Virtually every other Meren primer is some blend of midrange / goodstuff with most of what you've listed. I've tested and tried out all of those options and I just don't think this is the strongest way to build her... it results in a slow and slogging list without much potential to tango with fast combo. But, Meren can be so much faster and more potent if you are willing to step out of the comfort zone of "normal" and try this list out!
In regards to the recommendations - most of those options are just not fast enough. Turns 1-4 are where CEDH games are largely set, and focusing on accelerating hard, locking down those turns, and transitioning reliably out of them, is what I've found to win games - much more than goodstuff. The "standard" Meren staples (Bane of Progress, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, etc) are strong in theory but they just don't land quickly enough and you simply lose a lot of games because of it. Even The Abyss falls into this category - it hurt me to unsleeve it, but at this point the CEDH format and the rest of this list outpaces it so much that it's just not worth the 4cmc and long payoff period. Regarding Damnation specifically, it isn't there because Yahenni's Expertise is often the more efficient choice vs. the lists I see (i.e. Yisan swarm, etc).
Typical Meren lists are lucky to break an average 3.5 CMC, or 3.0 if they're lucky. Compare this to fast combo in CEDH which often hovers right around 2.0 or even lower - it's no wonder conventional Meren lists have a hard time keeping up! With the list in this Primer we're hovering right around 2.2, which means we're actually fast enough to keep pace with combo but still have the card quality and value engines to give us great control in the mid to late game.
It looks different because it is, I encourage you to give it a shot!