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Foreboding Ruins Discussion
5 days ago
Are you still working on your mana base?
1 week ago
zapyourtumor Mana base is most assuredly where I need the most help. I'm a budget player and paying money for land kills me inside. But I definitely see that they make a deck more efficient.
I will include more untapped duals - likely your great suggestion of Foreboding Ruins and Dragonskull Summit at the least. I'm honestly not tooooo worried about having tons of black mana: in the ideal situation, the only black mana cost I have would be Claim . The only reason I'd need to hardcast Lightning Skelemental would be if I couldn't discard him with Cathartic Reunion or Lightning Axe .
That being said, would you still recommend more than 8 duals? I'm still new to this, so I'll heed your advice! And thanks so much for the help!
1 week ago
About the manabase:
1) The deck is aggressive and low to the ground so you want to curve out well and use the maximum amount of mana you can - this means that the budget taplands Bloodfell Caves should definitely be taken out.
2) You have very restrictive mana costs, specifically in Lightning Skelemental , so you definitely need to run a decent number of dual lands.
Because of these two reasons, I think you definitely need to add more dual lands (at least 8) even if you need to double the budget just because the deck suffers so much with the current manabase (because fucking WotC decided that lands were going to be the priciest thing to keep any deck running smoothly). The Dragonskull Summit s in the maybeboard should definitely be included. Smoldering Marsh would be good if you only ran 8 nonbasics, but if you decide to add more then I wouldn't put it in. Same with the Blightstep Pathway Flips, although they aren't as good as the summits for their cost. Foreboding Ruins is another option for less expensive duals, although for some reason the BR SOI lands are more expensive than the other ones.
You could probably also cut down a little on lands to 18-20, since you have Igneous Pouncer to help tutor your lands and mana fix.
1 month ago
Online class is in session, which just means I've got an excuse to post my suggestions now. My suggestions for lands are a doctrine I'm going to press on you; the following suggestions are just ideas that you can decline based on your taste. Overall, your list epitomizes the Commander format to me.
- LANDS MAN LANDS! You could have the best cards in every format and never play them when you need them because you're topdecking the wrong basics at the wrong time. There's budget options, not every mana base needs to be fetches and shocks. Prioritize your lands over cards that are powerful but not essential to your strategy. There are some specific lands that would be interesting in here too. I recommend prioritizing buying one or all of these cycles before buying stuff like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth if you don't already have one. The basic land ratio can then be more specific once your lands are fixed, but that can be the last step of your construction.
Your Mardu and Commander staples: Command Tower , Savai Triome , Nomad Outpost , Exotic Orchard , Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds . I have a Forbidden Orchard that would be cool in this deck but would need to be part of a good deal (I'm strict about lands).
Your bicolored lands:
a. Pain lands: Caves of Koilos and Battlefield Forge are cheap as hell. Sulfurous Springs is the most expensive of these three but if you can get your cycle of lands for less than $15, it's still really good.
b. Filter lands: Graven Cairns , Rugged Prairie , Fetid Heath . You can get all three of these for $16 so it doesn't pass our test... but I have a Cairns for trade, bringing you to $12.50. These are good because you have some cards essential to your strategy that have double-colored-mana costs and others with multicolored costs. These are a great budget cycle, especially for your colors.
Less good bicolored lands that are require deckbuilding technique:
c. Check lands: these are fantastic if you have a good basic land ratio (why it would be important not to run both the thriving lands and the pathways at the same time as these)- Dragonskull Summit , Clifftop Retreat , Isolated Chapel
d. Pathway lands: Needleverge Pathway Flip, Brightclimb Pathway Flip, Blightstep Pathway Flip. You saw the foil full art Blightstep Pathway that was in my knight deck, you asked about the price when you said it was cool. I wouldn't necessarily go out of your way to buy these, but definitely seek them out in binders. If you're not running cards like Cultivate where you want to have some ratio of basic lands, these are strictly better than basic lands and could replace your Thriving Lands (which are a decent start; I have the nonred ones available).
- Curses, Vows, Impetuses: these could be cool, especially with the Sigarda's Aid you already own. Having these in your hand (and even better, a sigarda's aid in play) means when you say "if you attack this person instead of me, I'll reward you with ____" and bluff, or if someone attacks you you could flash in a Vow of Duty . I have most of these in the cube (as well as marchesa and the jankier cards in your deck), so you can try these out and see if you like them.
a. The other vows are Vow of Lightning , Vow of Torment , and Vow of Malice (quick trivia- there's two black vows because R&D has tried to ween off of intimidate and other mechanics like protection from [color] and likely didn't want to include it in Commander Legends).
b. More aggressive and prone to cause kamikaze-style attacks, the Impetuses are similar to the vows but definitely play very differently. Martial Impetus , Shiny Impetus , and Parasitic Impetus could even be considered removal for multiple creatures in combat if you flash them out with Sigarda's Aid.
c. Curses: Marchesa was the most popular commander for curses until Ghen, Arcanum Weaver was released. Curse of Chaos encourages the player with a shitty hand to swing in a bit. Curse of Bloodletting punishes the opponent who is too far ahead. Curse of Shallow Graves is cool at a table with Gedan's Varina, Lich Queen deck. The curses from Commander 2017- Curse of Opulence and Curse of Disturbance are the best in your deck as they also give you something when your opponent attacks them too. These are really the only curses that fit the theme and psychology of your deck by not making you a target IMO, but .
Removal: You have some "soft" enchantment synergy going on, so you might as well make it more broad. You're in the late game, you've got all your powerhouse enchantments in order and extra mana... why not cast Idyllic Tutor for whatever removal would smooth out your schemes? Darksteel Mutation shuts down commanders. Seal of Cleansing can be recurred with Hall of Heliod's Generosity . Dark Banishing is honestly a better run for your cash over Bedevil ... you're supposed to be able to convince those opponents to remove the black creature ;)
Individual cards: Gedan has a Rite of the Raging Storm you could get. Wishclaw Talisman is more on theme than Diabolic Tutor or cheaper than Infernal Tutor . This is the only deck I wanna see those and Grim Tutor in since I know what you tutor for will actually be interesting and not a combo piece. Sphere of Safety would be impenetrable and bait removal if you have the mana for it. I have a foil Keeper of the Accord somewhere but I don't know where it is. Commander's Sphere as a budget option for Chromatic Lantern , and if you build a solid budget land base the draw effect would be better (adding but lantern but not replacing would be good eventually)
Some cards I'd remove or wanted to comment on, but understand maybe stylistic or preferred: Sunforger can be a cool aikido spell tutor at instant speed. However, looking at your white instants, you have to spend 3 and then RW to save yourself with Angel's Grace . That could be a cool maneuver. I was also going to suggest dropping Akroma's Will until I saw Sunforger... that's fucking cool too, especially game changing after blockers are declared. Otherwise you're Mortify ing a creature, having your opponent talk to the Deflecting Palm , or Tear ing an enchantment in half. Batwing Brume wouldn't do anything with Sunforger. Therefore Sunforger basically has two game-changing effects and three utility effects, but I'd suggest keeping an eye on Sunforger to see how often the 3RW cost is available and worth it. The fewer cards you're dependent on, the more decentralized your strategy is, making it way harder to compete against (I'm saying this both critically and in favor of Sunforger- just keep it in mind). Torment of Hailfire wins you the game, but isn't gonna be less than $15 in the next couple years. You might not need it. Revival / Revenge can make you one of six creatures or one of three opponents an enemy- it seems like there are better cards you could play. Revel in Riches makes you a threat that your opponents need to race against, and I (genuinely) don't know if that's a position you want or if you want to maintain your monarch status. Try to think of when you want to win with this deck- by beating down your opponents individually, by beating them all at once, by spontaneously winning, or by drawing the game out for as long as possible and having the best resources throughout the game.
I haven't been able to analyze most of my own decks this intensively in a while, your design is competitive while still unique and interesting. Knowing your play style and how well it fits to this too also helps me suggest cards- it's the difference between auto-generating a deck from EDHRec and building a deck. I haven't been super inspired in the decks I've been building for myself, but this one of yours has me just as interested in the game as you now.
4 months ago
Hey, good start on a budget.
Cards to consider cutting to make 100 cards:
- Beacon of Immortality
- Kazarov, Sengir Pureblood
- Vein Drinker
- Defiant Bloodlord
- Grisly Spectacle
- Archetype of Finality
- Arvad the Cursed
- Teysa Karlov
- Captivating Crew
- Bishop of Binding
- Regal Bloodlord
- Tempt with Immortality
- Solar Blaze
- Commander's Insignia
The cuts to consider above will reduce the mana curve a lot, but consider reducing it even more by adding more low CMC Vamps: one drops and two drops? With Edgar you want an established battlefield of Vamps to attack before you cast him. Lower CMC Vamps gives you more Vamps on the battlefield because each one also creates a Vamp token. Edgar is the high CMC Vamp you want to cast more the than the others therefore you don't really need lots of other high CMC Vamps or even high CMC nonVamp cards.
Vamps to consider adding that are $1-$2 each, most are less than $1:
- Knight of the Ebon Legion
- Vampire of the Dire Moon
- Shadow Alley Denizen
- Vampire Cutthroat
- Cordial Vampire
- Gifted Aetherborn
- Legion Lieutenant
- Olivia's Bloodsworn
- Nullpriest of Oblivion
If your budget allows more then these tribal Vamps are powerful upgrades:
- Captivating Vampire
- Drana, Liberator of Malakir
- Bloodline Keeper Flip
- Sanctum Seeker
- Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose
Some budget land upgrades for the manabase:
- Unclaimed Territory
- Caves of Koilos
- Concealed Courtyard
- Battlefield Forge
- Exotic Orchard
- Tainted Field
- Foreboding Ruins
- Brightclimb Pathway Flip
- Needleverge Pathway Flip
- Temple of Silence
- Temple of Triumph
- Temple of Malice
If interested I offer more advice. Good luck with your deck.
5 months ago
Hey! I'm happy to share suggestions, as I've thrown out a few ideas and tried to chat about insight so far. You may want to try and isolate cards you're willing to remove - that way you can still feel like the deck is yours, while being open to prospective ideas / outside perspective ya know?
I'll try to make suggestions with budget in mind!
- Get the same effect with a higher upside and immediately get to discard a Dragon. Non-artifact so it's harder to remove. Mid and late-game card-drawing machine with an evasive Dragon.
- This Neheb is too slow and while the synergy is there, it's going to have trouble making a consistent impact. Even an ETB tapped fetch still keeps you getting the color mana you need while (statistically marginally) thinning your deck and cleaning your future draws.
- Overall, these edits reduce your cumulative curve, provide similar (if not more consistent) discard ability, and much higher ceilings for providing value. Evolving Wilds is your 2nd fetch, so you can keep improving the lands you're getting into play. Daretti lets you move through the deck quicker AND has artifact synergies if you choose to lean into that line of play. Chainer is a discard outlet and haste enabler the turn he comes down, so he's already got the same floor as Mad Prophet with the opportunity to be impactful if he stays on the board.
- Since you've enjoyed leaning heavily into the discard aspect, Temple makes a lot of sense for you to have access to a mid or late-game land to ramp a bit. With all these expensive Dragons, I'm sure you've had a turn or two with plenty of un-used mana (I have!), so this gives you a way to maximize the discard AND set yourself up to keep having access to mana!
- The five-mana CMC for a less-efficient Sneak Attack just feels heavy in this build. Adding Landscape gives you another opportunity to pull lands out of your deck and keep having colors on the battlefield - I'm sure you've noticed but the double and triple-pips of the deck can be VERY challenging at times. Being able to get two Mountains (or your two Swamps) will hugely impact your ability to play relevant spells on time. As far as getting one more haste enabler, even with Chainer already in...
- Tyrant is a win-more and a payoff card. It's a fun ambition, but in a deck chock-full of power and crazy cool Dragons, we don't need this. Instead, big Kolaghan comes down much earlier AND hastes our entire squad.
- Courser enables shenanigans and fantastic temporary Commander fun. It's effect can be much more impactful than Thundermaw Hellkite's in the long-run, and essentially acts as another reanimation spell. Thundermaw's effect is pretty narrow, while Courser's lets us go into the graveyard for a more toolbox-like approach, depending on what we've been able to get into the graveyard so far.
- This might be a little bit of personal preference, and with how many ways this deck has to kill opponents' creatures on your turn, I think it provides a great ceiling while also acting as an early-game blocker. Mana that you can do anything with is so precious in this deck, and it happens to synergize nicely with the best addition to this deck in Kaldheim...
- I personally don't think this deck needs to go wide, otherwise you'd be running more cost reduction ( Urza's Incubator , Dragonspeaker Shaman ) as well as Nesting Dragon . Big-mana decks are always going to need mana, and Goldspan makes it in spades.
- This is a different style of play, I'd just rather avoid exiling my Dragons or only getting a single use out of them...for a minimum of 8 mana and two turns. Feldon has more flexibility in coming down quicker and activating sooner. You're packing High Market and Phyrexian Tower here for sac outlets to get rid of the tokens (same as the Dragons from Zirilan realistically), but you're doing it much earlier in the game, or with mana to spare, with no downside of losing a Dragon for the rest of the game.
- Between all of the Dragon ETB damage and the removal suite available to Rakdos, you don't need more removal, I'm sure you've noticed this! Especially cost-inefficient removal. Having more reanimation effects, especially to act as a or flicker effect? There's WAY more flexibility here for how the Dragon reanimator wants to succeed. I agree that more removal is always good though! With that in mind...
- Play faster, and play with more flexibility. Command will give you options based on how the game's playing, and playing at instant-speed ensures you can be more interactive. Along that same line...
- Flexibility in usage! More than likely this will get rid of a troublesome artifact, and wouldn't you know it that some of the best graveyard hate is on artifacts! The graveyard hosing can also be key and, again, playing at instant-speed gives you more opportunities to disrupt opponents. For a high-curve deck like this, that's really important!
- Let's help Rakdos players see that Arena isn't the powerhouse everyone thinks it is! Exploration does EVERYTHING we could need - especially in your build, which has a higher concentration of Dragons, there's a greater likelihood for you to fill your graveyard quicker! Please give this a shot and let me know what you think!
Four of these cards ETB tapped and make you a turn slower, AND they're bad in the late-game since they have little utility. There's no snow synergy here to justify Coldsteel. Having more land ensures you'll hit your drops throughout the game. Wayfarer's lets you keep some ramp (I prefer Expedition Map, but one discussion at a time) while Archive has mana utility and lets you cash in when you have leftover mana. Smooth out your hands, get more consistent draws and turns, and have the ability to draw more cards.
- All of these Dragons in the yard are going to go to waste if you can't get them out onto the field! This is my favorite low-cost reanimator aside from the namesake - if you wanted to make a case for Stitch Together I wouldn't argue it. Being able to get two Dragons out, albeit tapped, ensures you can keep some board presence. It also lets you use up some of those Sneak Attack / token creations in an efficient way. I know losing some card draw feels a bit weird, and based on how the deck's built up, and from what you've described about your playstyle, it sounds like you may have an over-abundance of card-draw and not enough interaction. Hopefully this changes things!
Non-budget upgrade, and more likely to consistently come down untapped and provide the same color flexibility. If budget doesn't allow this edit, I'd say the non-budget move could be Path of Ancestry .
I do think you need to find room for one of the game-winning, mass-reanimators like Living Death or Patriarch's Bidding , or the new Kaldheim one, I'm blanking on the name. I'd take out Scourge of Kher Ridges for it to give yourself a win condition out of nowhere!
Hopefully these ideas help, or at least spark some further ideation for you to think about! If you want to chat about Bladewing in real-time over Discord or Reddit I'm on both sites as ThePillowman :)
5 months ago
For me, Sulfurous Mire was a simple upgrade to Lavaclaw Reaches , for I had never activated the creature mode. The land types synergize with Anger , Castle Locthwain , and Foreboding Ruins , whilst covering for the fact that I had just cut a Mountain for Blightstep Pathway Flip.
Typically, I am quite averse to tap lands, but I am yet to have an issue with it in this deck, thus no qualms are had.
Unless the strategy cares for the snow supertype, Canyon Slough is just better.
9 months ago
Hey, nice start on a budget.
Consider expanding on instants/sorceries trimming creatures? The power of Kess comes from being able to cast an instant/sorcery from your graveyard on your turn therefore you want to take more advantage of this especially draw and dig. Could start by cutting half the creatures from the creature base and adding mana efficient spells that Kess can cast from your graveyard:
- Dark Ritual
- Frantic Search
- Ignite the Future
- Chaos Warp
- Feed the Swarm
- Liliana's Triumph
A powerful repeatable effect on a budget with Kess because she has flying is Whispering Madness. Cipher Whispering to Kess and then when she does combat damage to an opponent everyone wheels their hands for no mana cost to you. A repeatable wheel fills your graveyard up with spells to then cast with Kess. Can even cast Whispering from your graveyard with Kess and then Cipher it to her or another creature you control. The act of discarding a card to Whispering means that if the card has a madness cost you can pay that cost. This is a way to discard a lot of cards with madness while at the same time able to pay the madness bonus cost.
A wheel makes all players discard their hands and draw cards, but you can prevent your opponents from drawing with Narset, Parter of Veils and Notion Thief. Notion is $0.50 not $2. With one of these cards in your control then your opponents don't draw cards after they discard their hands.
For the manabase you would be better off playing more basic lands then lands that always ETB tapped such as the three Vivids, Transguild Promenade, Cinder Barrens, etc. Exotic Orchard could replace Promenade. My advice for the manabase on a budget is build it around more basic lands and include dual lands that have interaction with basic lands or are good budget dual lands:
- Shivan Reef: less than $1.
- Grixis Panorama
- Sunken Hollow
- Smoldering Marsh
- Sulfur Falls
- Dragonskull Summit
- Graven Cairns
- Choked Estuary
- Foreboding Ruins
I offer more advice. Good luck with your deck.