Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth

Legendary Land

Each land is a Forest in addition to its other land types.

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Arena	Legal
Block Constructed	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Gladiator	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Historic	Legal
Historic Brawl	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Modern	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Planar Constructed	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Tiny Leaders	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (50)

kamarupa on Uren8

3 weeks ago

Oh boy. I have... uh... a lot of thoughts.

I'm going to start with ramp and mana base. I've been commenting something along these lines on a lot of decks lately. Ramp isn't much of a ramp if you're missing land drops regularly. Getting to, say 3 available mana on t2 is nice, but if you don't hit a land drop or dork on the next 3 turns, the ramp didn't really help. I'm generally not a fan of spells like Arboreal Grazer and even less a fan when there aren't a substantial number of lands in a deck to start with. At a mere 20 lands, you're going to be have to be very lucky to get both Arboreal Grazer AND 2+ lands in an opening hand. And even if you do, the likelihood of you continuing to draw lands just isn't very high. Basically, any effect that lets you "play an additional land" is just way too conditional to be consistent in my view, and therefore, I prefer to run with dorks and enchantments and rarely, rocks. You do have an enchantment that tutors you 2 lands, but at a pretty steep 4MV, I think it's going to function as much as a 'thinner' as it will a ramp spell. I do see some redundancy there with Prime Time, so I could see it be a useful spell. I should state that Prime Time isn't a creature I have much experience with, so I don't know much about what other spells synergize with it best, but I have a gut feeling that what you've brewed could have better synergy with it. It seems like it might be getting included because it's a well known and feared threat more than being a perfect fit. You also have Flare of Cultivation, which seems like your 3rd best ramp spell after your two dorks. While I like that you can cheat it into play, I don't like the required sac cost to do so as the only really good target is the Arboreal Grazer and that's just too conditional to be consistent. It's not a spell I have lot of experience with, and while I'm not a big deck thinner, I can't deny it has a lot of powerful potential. But I want more good targets for it, preferably ones that actually WANT to be sacrificed. The best part of your ramp is that you have 8 1MV dorks. Given your EXTREMELY high average MV of 4.35, I think 8-10 is probably the right number. To sum up, I would cut Arboreal Grazer and possibly reconsider both Prime Time and Encroaching Dragonstorm, either leaning into Prime Times most classically defined deck elements or cutting it. I'd try to find another 1MV creature for your Flare of Cultivation to target (6-8x 1MV non-dorks that want to be sacced) or I'd look for some other ramp choices. I'd also consider adding in something like Fertile Ground, or maybe Utopia Sprawl, as you do already have a good number of lands with the basic Forest type. If you do go for the Sprawl, then perhaps Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth might be a smart add. Finally, I'd like to see this deck reach for at least 22 lands if not 24. You've just got a hell of a lot of very high MV spells and these days I strive for 22 lands as my minimum. It's just more consistent.

Next, I want to follow up on some of what Balaam__ brought up - disruption. Disruption doesn't do much good in a sidebaord. It needs to be mainboarded or else your deck will not only end up unbalanced when sideboarding, but you'll also be tempted not to sideboard as much as you struggle to choose what spells to swap out of the mainboard. I believe almost all decks need at least 4x disruption spells in the mainboard, with 8 being best. Disruption comes in a lot of forms - counterspell is great, but I don't like tieing up mana playing the waiting game. Removal is classic for reason. Usually half of 8 disruption spells are a form a removal. Sideboards offer us different methods of removal so you can get past all the defenses opponents might use to prevent that removal. That makes sideboarding a lot easier to pull off, swapping removal for removal. I really like protection spells Heroic Intervention - while defensively, it can function like a counterspell, offensively it can do things counterspell can't. It largely comes down to preference, but disruption beyond removal is almost always essential. Of course, there's also discard, which is a solid choice, too, though I don't prefer it because it misses cards drawn after it's cast and so isn't as foolproof as a pre-emptive defensive play. I also like squeezing in 1x Fog spell when I can. I love the comedic flavor of it, but again, that's just my preference/sense of humor. Assuming you cut Arboreal Grazer, Flare of Cultivation, and at least a few copies of Encroaching Dragon Storm, even after adding 2x land, you should have room for at least 4x disruption spells in your mainboard. Incidentally, all these changes should also help bring down your average MV, which will make the deck not only faster, but more resilient as it will be able to respond to opponents.

One thing I do think you have right here is the number of creatures. But I'd like to see tighter choices that play off each other a bit more. I get that Prime Time and Flare of Cultivation support Ureni, the Song Unending, but at 3 copies and Legendary status, I'd want to solely focus on that creature or abandon that whole strategy - it's all or nothing with spells like that - run 4x of Ureni to maximize its odds it comes up when Breaching Dragonstorm when that hits. Maybe even look for spells that let you tutor it to the top of your library - Scheming Symmetry comes to mind, though I don't think that's exactly the right spell for this brew. Brainstorm might be a good option - not really a path to card advantage, but it would be useful in setting up Breaching Dragonstorm.

To return to Balaam__'s feedback, I also agree with him that Breaching Dragonstorm, especially at 5MV is too easy a target for opponents to thwart. I do think you've got enough ramp to hardcast some of your threats at least some of the time, but adding in a secondary (or even primary?) cheat-in spell would almost certainly make the deck more consistent. Elvish Piper, for example might be just as fast or even more consistent, though it wouldn't help with your big sorcery spells. Although I think this would be a significant departure from your current brew, Maelstrom Archangel would be a nearly identical backup to Breaching Dragonstorm. I'd probably go for 6-8 total "cheat-in" spells.

Overall, I feel like this deck isn't quite focused enough. It's not clear what it really wants to accomplish and doesn't seem completely committed to any one goal. At the same time, it also seems a little over-gunned - I sometimes say, "you don't need to bring a tank to a water-pistol fight to get a win" - when it comes to successful brewing, it's not the biggest threat that wins, it's the fastest fully effective one. So my broadstroke advice is to try to narrow the deck down to the core you really want to win with and try to support that core as much as you can.

I do love me some card advantage and I can see how Up the Beanstalk could have been useful here. As alternatives, you might consider Garruk's Uprising, Tribute to the World Tree, or even just plain old Harmonize

Sometimes I find I'll start a brew like this and realize I might have tried to squeeze 2 or more decks into one. It might be useful to fork this once or twice and explore different aspects in each fork. Make one with a lot more disruption mainboard, one with different ramp spells, one that really focuses on Prime Time, etc etc.

I hope some of this is helpful. I'm just spitballing off the top of my head. Don't take it as me being too critical. I'm really just throwing out the first thoughts that came to mind and I'm very likely to have missed nuances, etc.

Epidilius on Infinite Rulings

1 month ago

Sorry, wasn't trying to come off as dismissive of the whole reason for the post. But, well, even those rules you've listed now are vague. Even just the "No MLD" rules brings up a ton of questions. Does that include Bearer of the Heavens, or Life and Limb + Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth + Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, or even just a bunch of "You get an extra land drop" cards + Crucible of Worlds + Ghost Quarter?

Trying to change the fundamentals of Magic gameplay is complicated. The MTG comp rules is 905 "main" rules (plus who knows how many sub-rules) for a reason haha.

If I were asked to write the rules for this tournament, I would say

"We want battlecruisery and unoptimized Magic, like we played when we first started. This is the spirit of what we are aiming for. No efficient tutors, no fast mana, no MLD, and combos can only trigger once per turn. Here some decks that showcase the level of power we are aiming for (each with a different archetype):

• Example Deck 1
• Example Deck 2
• Example Deck 3

If you are unsure if something crosses the line (eg, Farseek, Increasing Ambition, etc), ask and the entire playgroup can weigh in. If something comes up during a game, we'll figure it out then."

But even with all that, these rules wouldn't affect one of my close friend's Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder deck. It doesn't combo, doesn't have tutors, doesn't have Mana VaultGC, but it can get a quick Ydris into play and start generating tons of value pretty early, by casting multiple expensive spells every turn cycle. It violates the spirit of the ask, but unless I write a multi page document it won't violate the rules as written. Unless, of course, he were to play in good faith and say "I know this deck meets the rules as written but not as intended," which I believe he would.

Balaam__ on Kamarupa’s Challenge

2 months ago

Glad you approve, kamarupa!

This was a lot of fun. Some of your suggestions I’ve already considered, but some I overlooked and I think they’d be great additions.

I passed on Contagion Clasp and Thrummingbird during the build—one is too slow and the other too weak/unreliable. I haven’t seen Ichormoon Gauntlet before now, but I didn’t want to incorporate too many {U} costed cards (an earlier draft tried it, leaning heavily into countermagic, but just didn’t work well).

It’s funny you mention Bioshift—one of my favorite builds was a {GU} counter heavy deck with Simic Ascendancy as the Wincon where Bioshift is worth its weight in gold. It was the first thing I thought of here, but misremembered the card as being able to move any old counters instead of only +1/+1’s. I also looked at The Ozolith but you’re right, it’s junk here.

As for Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth…that one completely escaped my notice. Initially I got super excited, but on second thought it might not work. It itself being a land would mean if it ever got the Flood Counter then its other text would be redacted. If we could have two of them in play simultaneously then it would fix the problem, except…we can’t. It’s Legendary :/ There are ways around that of course, but that’s too much deck real estate devoted to something that we don’t really need anyway. Great idea though.

Lastly, I considered a Ponza-ish combo deck featuring Choke, Boil etc as primary pieces but took the low road of depravity and went with the mess you see here instead. It’s not a bad idea though, just ‘too good’ for my gutter deck building sensibilities.

kamarupa on Kamarupa’s Challenge

2 months ago

I love it. I have a few spells that probably won't really make it better, but you might like them anyway just maybe.

• Thrummingbird - repeatable proliferation for fairly cheap. Also pings opponents without a flying defense.

• Choke - this was my original combo piece with Quicksilver Fountain - however, the combo such a stretch, getting to point where opponents are actually imprisoned is all but impossible. Still, it might prove a hindrance to opponents and will completely shut down any mono-blue deck. Of course, it would also shut down a good portion of this deck, too, though the mana dorks def help offset that.

• Contagion Clasp - another repeatable proliferator

• Ichormoon Gauntlet - potentially a lot of proliferation with this spell but how you fit any Planeswalkers in I have no idea lol.

I'm not really certain how this works, but I think because Quicksilver Fountain makes a non-island into an Island at the moment the Flood Counter is put on it, a Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth would add 'Forest' to that lands type if played after the fact. I'm really not sure though.

It's really too bad there's not card like Bioshift or Fate Transfer that would work here. Even The Ozolith doesn't get close. :(

kamarupa on Balaam__

2 months ago

I'm 99% certain a fetchland, if targeted, loses it's ability to fetch after a flood counter is put on it. Not having seen your brew, I can't see how this might affect your deck. Since Quicksilver Fountain triggers at the beginning of a player's upkeep, if they played a fetchland for their turn, they could still fetch with it until their next upkeep, which provides a fair window to activate that ability.

The reason I'm so certain is because Quicksilver Fountain says, "...is an island..." and does not include the text "... in addition to its other land types..." like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth. Instead, it's text is like Blood Moon and we all know how bloody airtight that is.

kamarupa on Don't

2 months ago

While I don't recommend it, as it really puts a target on your dorks, if you have Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy in play, a Freed from the Real on a Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch would generate infinite mana. There's certainly enough protection with current Instants, though, if you wanted to go that route. Bloom Tender would another solid choice to include then, if you felt so inclined.

I definitely think the manabase could be improved on. It seems there's no budget for creatures, but lands are all budget? So I was hesitant earlier, and didn't have the time either then to make a case for improvements. That said, 1x Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth is, IMO, always worth whatever mana-fixing it provides opponents. After that, I tend to prefer Botanical Sanctum, Dreamroot Cascade and Barkchannel Pathway  ^Flip to the perennially desired Breeding Pool and Misty Rainforest. I just can't stand the thought of burning 3 life to get one dual land. I usually also include Scavenger Grounds just on the off chance I face a deck that likes to bring stuff back from the graveyard.

I didn't see you asking for removal spells, but Beast Within is decent, IMO, and I wouldn't turn my nose up at any deck running Pongify or Rapid Hybridization, especially if the deck is also packing creatures that can block those 3/3 gift tokens.

While it's a bit gutsy to rely strictly on mana dorks for the white mana needed to cast Gods Willing, I rather like the idea of an unblockable swing thanks to its protection.

In my eyes, the biggest weaknesses are: Opt doesn't provide any card advantage. Divination would be better, and Harmonize better still. Hydroid Krasis, as I said before, seems to fit as well and comes with the bonus of a bit of lifegain which is never bad. And that leads to the next issue - the wincons are [almost] all legendary, and therefore rightly limited to less than 4 copies each. I do like that they come with their own means of preventing removal, though. And finally, that the mana base just isn't as premium as most the spells it supports.

Profet93 on Gas in the Tank, I'm Gonna Spank

2 months ago

Chill_Casual +1

I love the name of your deck. Is that from a song? Do you smoke weed?

Do you have a budget per card? I was thinking of a swap like Fabled Passage > evolving wilds for example or Ancient Tomb > temple of false

Eye of Ugin - For all the eldrazi.

Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth - To make something like temple of false or eye of ugin to tap for green. Yavimaya Hollow - Protection/politics. None of the lands are really needed, just nice to have.

Maybe a Crucible of Worlds - Get back cycled lands, replay fetch lands (Azusa or courser makes it even better). Although it depends on the amount of fetches you utilize.

Y is seedborn muse in the maybeboard and not mainboard?

kamarupa on Golgari Scavengers

2 months ago

I have some suggestions. Feel free to ignore them!

• Unearth instead of Treasured Find.

• The Ozolith instead of or in addition to Fate Transfer - it's quite a expensive, so maybe you don't want to invest in it, but it's cheaper to cast and as a permanent, works statically, which is quite nice. The downside, in addition to its hefty price is that it's Legendary.

• Corpsejack Menace has long been a staple in golgari counters

• You didn't include "Budget" in your description or Hubs, so I'll suggest Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth as useful lands. They might help your opponents mana-fix, too though. And of course, if they're too expensive, just disregard this. Other lands to consider: Castle Locthwain, Bojuka Bog, Darkbore Pathway  ^Flip, Blooming Marsh, Deathcap Glade.

• Thoughtseize is a classic black spell, but only 2x isn't much, especially when it's your only means of removal. Golgari is arguably the best color combination for removal ever. Abrupt Decay and Assassin's Trophy are at the top of a long list of great removal spells, and both are exclusive to golgari. I'd suggest 2x of each, but either would be useful. The other could go in your sideboard. Since you are already running some sac outlet creatures, Fatal Push would be a good fit, too.

• Bow of Nylea is always good. It's another Legendary, so no more than 1x.