Clifftop Retreat enters the battlefield tapped unless you control a Mountain or a Plains.
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|Have (2)||, orzhov_is_relatively_okay819|
|Want (3)||JoEHKay , Gemini4786 , zaphodbrox|
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Clifftop Retreat Discussion
5 days ago
Back to the legendary sub conversation I ran a deck in Dominaria standard (with guilds and such) that was basically all legendries: Legendary Soup. Once again no win/loss record recorded on Tappedout but I won so much with it at my LGS the deck has become...legendary. I un-privatized the deck so you can play through it but if not I'll give you a run down of what just accomplished in my playtest:
Turn 1 Stomping Ground
4 weeks ago
This deck does look very fun to play, always having options and hinged on a delicate balance of triggers.
Your mana base could really use an upgrade. I would lose the lands that come into play tapped, especially Boros Garrison, and replace them with what you have or can afford: Command Tower , Clifftop Retreat , Needleverge Pathway Flip, Rugged Prairie , Spectator Seating , Sacred Foundry and Arid Mesa .
It seems like you would produce enough tokens to generate value for a Purphoros, God of the Forge . It would pair very well with Assemble the Legion, perhaps finally silencing the haters. ;)
Apostle's Blessing might be an worthwhile upgrade of Stave Off, allowing to protect your artifacts if needed.
I know Smothering Tithe is all the rage right now, but I would playtest Endless Horizons in this build. Setting 7 or 8 lands aside skims your deck and improves the quality of your draws, similar to Land Tax.
Hoping this inspired you
1 month ago
That is honestly a good suggestion. This deck always wants to have R on first turn and follows up with either RR or WR, so playing basic Mountain first is fine and Clifftop Retreat will work better late game
1 month ago
2 months ago
Online class is in session, which just means I've got an excuse to post my suggestions now. My suggestions for lands are a doctrine I'm going to press on you; the following suggestions are just ideas that you can decline based on your taste. Overall, your list epitomizes the Commander format to me.
- LANDS MAN LANDS! You could have the best cards in every format and never play them when you need them because you're topdecking the wrong basics at the wrong time. There's budget options, not every mana base needs to be fetches and shocks. Prioritize your lands over cards that are powerful but not essential to your strategy. There are some specific lands that would be interesting in here too. I recommend prioritizing buying one or all of these cycles before buying stuff like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth if you don't already have one. The basic land ratio can then be more specific once your lands are fixed, but that can be the last step of your construction.
Your Mardu and Commander staples: Command Tower , Savai Triome , Nomad Outpost , Exotic Orchard , Terramorphic Expanse , Evolving Wilds . I have a Forbidden Orchard that would be cool in this deck but would need to be part of a good deal (I'm strict about lands).
Your bicolored lands:
a. Pain lands: Caves of Koilos and Battlefield Forge are cheap as hell. Sulfurous Springs is the most expensive of these three but if you can get your cycle of lands for less than $15, it's still really good.
b. Filter lands: Graven Cairns , Rugged Prairie , Fetid Heath . You can get all three of these for $16 so it doesn't pass our test... but I have a Cairns for trade, bringing you to $12.50. These are good because you have some cards essential to your strategy that have double-colored-mana costs and others with multicolored costs. These are a great budget cycle, especially for your colors.
Less good bicolored lands that are require deckbuilding technique:
c. Check lands: these are fantastic if you have a good basic land ratio (why it would be important not to run both the thriving lands and the pathways at the same time as these)- Dragonskull Summit , Clifftop Retreat , Isolated Chapel
d. Pathway lands: Needleverge Pathway Flip, Brightclimb Pathway Flip, Blightstep Pathway Flip. You saw the foil full art Blightstep Pathway that was in my knight deck, you asked about the price when you said it was cool. I wouldn't necessarily go out of your way to buy these, but definitely seek them out in binders. If you're not running cards like Cultivate where you want to have some ratio of basic lands, these are strictly better than basic lands and could replace your Thriving Lands (which are a decent start; I have the nonred ones available).
- Curses, Vows, Impetuses: these could be cool, especially with the Sigarda's Aid you already own. Having these in your hand (and even better, a sigarda's aid in play) means when you say "if you attack this person instead of me, I'll reward you with ____" and bluff, or if someone attacks you you could flash in a Vow of Duty . I have most of these in the cube (as well as marchesa and the jankier cards in your deck), so you can try these out and see if you like them.
a. The other vows are Vow of Lightning , Vow of Torment , and Vow of Malice (quick trivia- there's two black vows because R&D has tried to ween off of intimidate and other mechanics like protection from [color] and likely didn't want to include it in Commander Legends).
b. More aggressive and prone to cause kamikaze-style attacks, the Impetuses are similar to the vows but definitely play very differently. Martial Impetus , Shiny Impetus , and Parasitic Impetus could even be considered removal for multiple creatures in combat if you flash them out with Sigarda's Aid.
c. Curses: Marchesa was the most popular commander for curses until Ghen, Arcanum Weaver was released. Curse of Chaos encourages the player with a shitty hand to swing in a bit. Curse of Bloodletting punishes the opponent who is too far ahead. Curse of Shallow Graves is cool at a table with Gedan's Varina, Lich Queen deck. The curses from Commander 2017- Curse of Opulence and Curse of Disturbance are the best in your deck as they also give you something when your opponent attacks them too. These are really the only curses that fit the theme and psychology of your deck by not making you a target IMO, but .
Removal: You have some "soft" enchantment synergy going on, so you might as well make it more broad. You're in the late game, you've got all your powerhouse enchantments in order and extra mana... why not cast Idyllic Tutor for whatever removal would smooth out your schemes? Darksteel Mutation shuts down commanders. Seal of Cleansing can be recurred with Hall of Heliod's Generosity . Dark Banishing is honestly a better run for your cash over Bedevil ... you're supposed to be able to convince those opponents to remove the black creature ;)
Individual cards: Gedan has a Rite of the Raging Storm you could get. Wishclaw Talisman is more on theme than Diabolic Tutor or cheaper than Infernal Tutor . This is the only deck I wanna see those and Grim Tutor in since I know what you tutor for will actually be interesting and not a combo piece. Sphere of Safety would be impenetrable and bait removal if you have the mana for it. I have a foil Keeper of the Accord somewhere but I don't know where it is. Commander's Sphere as a budget option for Chromatic Lantern , and if you build a solid budget land base the draw effect would be better (adding but lantern but not replacing would be good eventually)
Some cards I'd remove or wanted to comment on, but understand maybe stylistic or preferred: Sunforger can be a cool aikido spell tutor at instant speed. However, looking at your white instants, you have to spend 3 and then RW to save yourself with Angel's Grace . That could be a cool maneuver. I was also going to suggest dropping Akroma's Will until I saw Sunforger... that's fucking cool too, especially game changing after blockers are declared. Otherwise you're Mortify ing a creature, having your opponent talk to the Deflecting Palm , or Tear ing an enchantment in half. Batwing Brume wouldn't do anything with Sunforger. Therefore Sunforger basically has two game-changing effects and three utility effects, but I'd suggest keeping an eye on Sunforger to see how often the 3RW cost is available and worth it. The fewer cards you're dependent on, the more decentralized your strategy is, making it way harder to compete against (I'm saying this both critically and in favor of Sunforger- just keep it in mind). Torment of Hailfire wins you the game, but isn't gonna be less than $15 in the next couple years. You might not need it. Revival / Revenge can make you one of six creatures or one of three opponents an enemy- it seems like there are better cards you could play. Revel in Riches makes you a threat that your opponents need to race against, and I (genuinely) don't know if that's a position you want or if you want to maintain your monarch status. Try to think of when you want to win with this deck- by beating down your opponents individually, by beating them all at once, by spontaneously winning, or by drawing the game out for as long as possible and having the best resources throughout the game.
I haven't been able to analyze most of my own decks this intensively in a while, your design is competitive while still unique and interesting. Knowing your play style and how well it fits to this too also helps me suggest cards- it's the difference between auto-generating a deck from EDHRec and building a deck. I haven't been super inspired in the decks I've been building for myself, but this one of yours has me just as interested in the game as you now.
2 months ago
Big thanks for the comment / upvote on Full Metal Alchemy, and listing it in your own deck description. Very much appreciated!
I really like the Myr Retriever + Workshop Assistant + Krark-Clan Ironworks + Ugin, the Ineffable / Foundry Inspector / Cloud Key line. You could also add Quicksmith Genius to this to draw / discard your whole deck.
I see your running Steel Hellkite which can be an awesome infinite mana sync. If you have the budget for it Walking Ballista can also be an awesome mana sync and ultimately win you the game. Aurelia's Fury could be a more budget friendly way to close out games too if you have access to infinite mana.
Your land count seems good (I run 33 lands with Valakut Awakening Flip as an optional 34th). I personally wouldn't go lower than that because missing land drops can be pretty detrimental. I would probably swap all the tap lands for ones that have the ability to come into play untapped when the conditions are met. Clifftop Retreat / Furycalm Snarl / Needleverge Pathway Flip / Rugged Prairie / Spectator Seating are a few I'd recommend if you have the budget for them.
Your ramp package seems solid, but if you feel like it's too much maybe add some more card draw? Or a few more "heavy hitters"?
Anyway, just some random thoughts and suggestions. Cheers.
2 months ago
Monomanamaniac I appreciate this ongoing conversation. I actually cut several of my dual lands to keep the basic count high. Most of my things like Land Tax and Wayfarer's Bauble are actually to strip the deck as much as possible as I’m sure you’re aware. I made the changes you recommended, and it was a toss up between Furycalm Snarl and Clifftop Retreat , with the snarl winning out because I’m more likely to be holding a basic back and need the dual than to have the right land already out and need the dual. I’m not sure if it was the correct choice, but I have both and that was my justification.
I appreciate all of your critical insight and analysis. It’s given me a lot of help in making this mine, and even better, making it good! The fact that you called it a solid 8 is a pretty high honor for me, tbh. This isn’t first full commander build (Captain, technically, since he does command a Skyship now) and it’s been a lot of fun. This feels very solidly powerful and on flavor. The iterations of it have been enough to frustrate friends at times, which I take as a great thing.
2 months ago
Fast lands are Spirebluff Canal and Inspiring Vantage and their fellows. The U/W one isn't Historic-legal, it was printed in a much older set. They're called fast lands because you should play them first (ergo, they are fast).
Check lands are Glacial Fortress , Sulfur Falls , and Clifftop Retreat in your colors. They're called check lands because as they ETB they "check" if you have the right types of lands. They work really well with shock lands because shock lands are also technically the basic land types (triomes too, but you don't want those in this deck, probably).
Bonecrusher certainly is one of the best red cards in the format, but I just think he has negative synergy in the deck. Giving trample/first strike to a Tenth District Legionnaire with a few counters is just as good.