Sunken Ruins
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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Highlander Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Planechase Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Sunken Ruins

Land

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nuperokaso on Ninjas and Rogues

5 days ago

zapyourtumor on Murky Waters

5 months ago

Card Suggestions Show

I think the main decision you have to make with this deck is whether you want it to be a true control deck or a tempo deck. A true control deck would try to trade one for one and build card advantage before dropping a threat like Murktide or Jace or simply winning with Snappy beatdown. A tempo deck on the other hand would try to turbo out a quick Murktide and then protect that threat.

Mixing control and tempo is nothing new, and it sometimes works quite well. But because a lot of the cards from each type of deck don't necessarily go well together, you can sometimes end up in an awkward situation.

Here, you definitely have a mix of both types (which, I'd like to emphasize, is not necessarily bad). Archmage's Charm, Counterspell, Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage, Devastation Tide and Jace, the Mind Sculptor are all heavily control-flavored cards in your deck. They all either break even or generate card advantage, or massively stall out the game.

On the other hand, Force of Negation, Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Spell Pierce, and Subtlety are all tempo-flavored cards.

The problem with this combination in this deck is that half of your cards aim to turbo out a Murktide Regent as fast as possible with Otherworldly Gaze and Thought Scour and then protect it in the short term with cheap spells like Dismember, Force of Negation, Subtlety, and Spell Pierce. The main problems with these cards is that they are pretty terrible topdecks late game. Scour isn't too bad because it cantrips, but topdecking a Gaze when you really needed a counterspell or card advantage engine or a Murktide would probably feel terrible. And all the control-type cards aim to reach that stage of the game.

One example of a problem that arises when you try and combine these two archetypes is in the manabase. Tempo decks typically don't need many lands; depending on the deck's mana curve, we are generally looking at 19-20 lands, and occasionally even 18 or less. On the other hand, control decks almost always want at least 22-23 lands, sometimes up to 24-26 lands in order to reliably play their more expensive spells on curve like Archmage's Charm, Cryptic Command and Snapcaster Mage, and to also always have mana held up during their opponents turn for a reactive spell.

Of course, many cards fit very flexibly into both tempo and control decks, for example Counterspell is just so strong it works in both, while Consider being a cheap cantrip also fits into both types. So in my opinion one of the most important decisions you should make, if you want to make the deck more cohesive and just function smoother as a whole, is whether you want to lean more towards tempo or control.

Quick disclaimer: I think it is definitely possible to make the deck more competitive while keeping both tempo and control aspects; however you should probably then trim both the very slow control-leaning cards (Cryptic Command, Devastation Tide, Jace, the Mind Sculptor), and the cheap tempo-leaning cards (Otherworldly Gaze, Thought Scour, Force of Negation) and replace them with cards more towards the middle ground. The rest of the cards, like Archmage's Charm, Subtlety, Force of Negation, Spell Pierce, Dismember, and of course Murktide Regent are all flexible enough that they can slot into both types of decks.

The second important decision to make is what secondary color, if any, you want for your deck in order to complement the primary color (blue). The main issue with mono blue control is that you have very few ways to deal with resolved permanents, which is why most players typically splash white or black (or occasionally red). Blue only has access to bounce spells, which are decent in tempo decks but generally bad in control decks because they are card disadvantage (and also terrible late).

Here, I see you kind of "splashed" black, but your only maindeck spell with black pips uses phyrexian mana anyways, while the only black spell in your sideboard can be casted with only blue mana. In my opinion, since you already have black lands, I would commit fully to a UB manabase by including a few more fetches (U fetches since that's your main color) because it gives you access to a lot of strong options:

Drown in the Loch is a really good spell doubling as both removal and countermagic at only 2 cmc, and only gets stronger as the game goes on. Fatal Push is another great removal spell which is generally stronger than Dismember, although it needs at least around 7 fetches to show its full potential. You can also run discard like Inquisition of Kozilek, although that is more tempo/midrange-esque so it may not be a great fit for this deck. Black also gives you an actual boardwipe in the form of Damnation, which is definitely a lot stronger than something like Devastation Tide since it gets rid of the creatures permanently and indirectly generates CA by trading with multiple enemy creature cards. It also doesn't hit Jace. If you don't think you need it in the mainboard, it can be a great sideboard inclusion. Lastly you have access to some sideboard options like Unmoored Ego.

If all of the blue pip spells like Counterspell and Archmage's Charm have you worried about mana fixing issues, you can run the filter land Sunken Ruins which is great in these types of decks to ensure you can cast both BB and UUU spells.

Those two main points aside, I have a few other card suggestions I think could work well here, some of which lean more control and some which lean more tempo.

Ledger Shredder is a great card which leans a bit more towards tempo but unlike Gaze/Thought Scour it helps turbo out a Murktide while also growing into a significant threat itself.

Aether Gust and Mystical Dispute are decent color-specific sideboard cards.

Remand is a tempo-leaning card that is generally not great in pure control lists, but could be good here if you decide to stick to the turbo murktide strategy.

Spreading Seas is probably the best sideboard option mono-blue has against Urza's Saga.

Memory Deluge has a bit of antisynergy with Murktide, but a very good digging spell if you decide to go towards control.

Orvar, the All-Form is another great sideboard card which instantly turns the tables on any Creativity player thinking they auto won the game after cheating out an early Archon of Cruelty.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading all of my comments. I like the deck and I'm excited to see where you can take it in the future. Happy brewing!

Macaronigrill5150 on Pickman's Model: A Horror Art Collection

1 year ago

here are some creepy lands Lake of the Dead, Halls of Mist, Crumbling Necropolis, Shizo, Death's Storehouse, Skyshroud Forest, Sunken Ruins, Swarmyard, and Zoetic Cavern

DemonDragonJ on How Good are the New …

1 year ago

The new Innistrad block provided a new cycle of dual lands (Deathcap Glade, Deserted Beach, and so forth), which I appreciate, and I especially like how WotC printed a full cycle of ten dual lands, rather than half a cycle of five dual lands, as they too often do.

Naturally, I am wondering how those dual lands compare to other cycle of dual lands, so I wish to ask others about their opinions of those lands.

The best dual lands of all are obviously the original dual lands (Bayou, Tundra, Plateau, and so forth), but those are too expensive for all but the most hardcore of players, so I shall not mention them any further in this thread.

After the originals, the second-best dual lands are the shock lands (Hallowed Fountain, Sacred Foundry, Godless Shrine, and so forth), which are nearly as good as the originals, with only a very minor downside.

After that, however, it is difficult to say what the next-best cycle is; I say that the "battle lands" (Cinder Glade, Canopy Vista, and so forth), the "check lands" (Glacial Fortress, Sunpetal Grove, Isolated Chapel, and so forth), and the filter lands (Cascade Bluffs, Wooded Bastion, Sunken Ruins, and so forth) are all contenders for the title of third-best dual lands, so I am not certain where the new Innistrad lands rank in comparison to them.

What does everyone else say about this? How good are the new Innistrad dual lands?

Romer on Night of the Dead

1 year ago

Might consider these lands, too:

stellarnear on Atraxa Friends Edition

1 year ago

Lethal Vapors>Sunken Ruins
Portcullis>Twilight Mire
Tainted AEther>Three Visits

Caerwyn on

1 year ago

If not taking budget into account, you would want a number of fetch lands (4x Polluted Delta , then some other lands that can hit either Blue or Black; preferably blue to fetch islands, since you run more Blue mana spells and the blue can hit your Watery Grave anyway). Competitive mill wants to run heavy on Fetches, since each Fetch land basically reads "Pay 1 life: get the land you need and your opponent mills 6*X, where X is the number of crabs you control). Unfortunately, given Wizards' frankly untenable aversion to reprinting Fetches, despite the fact that they are a staple in every single format in which they are legal, running a full contingent of Fetches is quite pricey, and will tear through your budget rather quickly.

That said... I honestly think the Fetches may be a necessity to a competitive mill deck--a lot of your milling power comes from those crabs, and Fetches double the milling you get from any land drop. Fetches also allow you to bank milling--you can play a Fetch on one turn, then not crack it until you need the land it would provide--that means you can save up your Fetches lands until you have more crabs in play and will get more milling from the land you fetch .

A singular copy of Oboro, Palace in the Clouds is another great addition--you do not want to draw too many of them, but it gives you a repeatable "mill 3 * X" if you do not have any other lands in-hand. However, Oboro is well overdue for a reprint and is quite expensive right now--it helps the deck, but is not necessary.

I am not a fan of either Sunken Ruins or Sunken Hollow for mill. Mill is a lot like burn--you want to hit them hard and fast, and burn them down every single turn. On your first turn, you really want to be able to drop a Crab, so you can get the additional burn with your land drop each turn. Both the cards you named are not viable on turn 1 in mill--neither can be used for a turn 1 crab, and you do not want your mana base to be too heavy on lands that are worthless to you on turn one (especially since you already need to have 3 lands in your deck--those Field of Ruin s--which you do not want turn 1).

If you are not going to go heavy on shocks, a full set of Watery Grave will be helpful--two life isn't that big to ask. Underground River is an okay budget land, though it is going to be disproportionately bad in mill since a large number of your spells have no generic mana requirements.

Quirk1ess on

1 year ago

Caerwyn, regarding the mana base, which lands should I swap in/out? You mentioned cutting Dimir Aqueduct and Fetid Pools , but looking over the dual lands available, I'm not sure what would help me in their place. I was thinking something like Sunken Ruins or Sunken Hollow ?

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