Demonlord Belzenlok

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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Arena Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Gladiator Legal
Highlander Legal
Historic Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Pioneer Legal
Vintage Legal

Demonlord Belzenlok

Legendary Creature — Elder Demon

Flying, trample

When this enters the battlefield, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card, then put that card into your hand. If the card’s converted mana cost is 4 or greater, repeat this process. This deals 1 damage to you for each card put into your hand this way.

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Epicurus on Will there Ever Be Female …

1 week ago

I think that it's important to reiterate that Angels and Demons are genderless. So the real discussion is about masculinity vs femininity, not male vs female. That distinction is something I've wrestled with for most of my life.

To draw from my personal experience, I've long identified myself as a very feminine male. In today's sociopolitical environment, I might say that I identify as a woman. But I personally believe that doing so would be counterproductive. To say that I identify as a woman would suggest that men can't be feminine and women can't be masculine. It reinforces traditional gender roles. To relate this to the current discussion, I posit that anyone who looks at the artwork for demons in MtG and says that these genderless figures are all men, must accept their own bias which insists that only men can be masculine.

Even if that's the intention of the artists and/or designers, the interpretation of the observer is important. For example, if you look at Master of Cruelties and see a male figure, you're exposing your own biases about "what a woman looks like." Should it be skinny, long-haired, big-boobed and scantily clad? Would that look more like a woman to you? Can a woman not be big, strong, imposing and fully armored?

If that bias is based in truth (which, I believe is incorrect, but will allow the idea for the sake of argument), then what about:

Couldn't you make the argument that the artwork for these cards "look like women?"

And no, none of them are legendary creatures, ultimately they're as genderless as other cards that are much more easy to accept as such (e.g. Hezrou), and, like I am trying to posit, it doesn't say anything about actual gender either way, because however you see these cards is shaped by your social education about what a man or a woman are supposed to look like.

Now, as for angels, the breasts are a dead giveaway. Which is not to say that men never have large breasts, but the visual characterization of angels in MtG tend to follow the general characterization of women in the rest of the fantasy genre (i.e. long hair blowing in the wind, unrealistically large breasts, armor that makes them look sexy at the expense of being actually effective as armor, etc.). This, in my opinion, is what really is the type of thing that should be changed. There're certainly many ways to depict strong woman without giving them big tits and hardly any clothing. Especially in the case of angels, which like demons, are meant to be genderless. However, because the lore defines them as being manifested in the likeness of Serra - who was a human woman - it would be at least more acceptable to be able to depict them as masculine even while depicting them as female. To suggest that you couldn't is the definition of gender norm bias.

That's why I think that the reason Rosewater gives for not depicting "female" demons - if what's been suggested here is true - is utter bullshit. To suggest that the only way to depict a female demon is as a succubus, suggests that women are one-dimensional. I might argue that you could make Demonlord Belzenlok "look female" simply by putting a shirt on it. And why not? Too muscular? Too imposing? Hair too short? Breasts too small? Not showing enough leg? Ask yourself: why do you think it's impossible for a woman to look like that?

multimedia on Rakdos, Lord of Riots Demon Tribal

3 months ago

In my last comment suggested a lot of cards to add, now here's some cards to consider cutting. For cards to consider cutting I would start with all the lower mana cost nonDemon creatures. I would simply replace these with other lower mana cost cards that can better enable Rakdos without attacking and reduce creature mana costs without attacking.

Rather than playing a lot of single creature removal spells, rely more on Demons who can destroy or remove creatures? Especially Demons who have repeatable removal effects. You could cut many creature removal spells and replace them with more draw.

Searing Spear, Shock, Disintegrate can target a player to make them lose life, but you have Lightning Bolt for that and you can make opponent lose life better ways then playing single burn spells. Some budget single removal spells are helpful such as Chaos Warp and Feed the Swarm because these spells can remove an enchantment, Warp any permanent. When attacking is important to your game plan these can remove Ghostly Prison, Propaganda and others.


Rakdos can only reduce the mana cost of creatures therefore play very few noncreature high mana cost spells or spells that require a lot of mana to be useful. Spells that need a lot mana paid to make them decent is not really what you want when playing many high mana cost creatures. Could cut these for more draw and ramp.

Rolling Earthquake is a budget spell like this that's worth playing because you can control how much damage each creature is going to take, most Demons including Rakdos have high toughness. You could cut a few of the lesser Demons.

Master of the Feast is really bad card in multiplayer Commander because only your opponents draw. Awaken the Sky Tyrant, Wretched Confluence and Seal of the Guildpact are subpar for the mana costs.


In my last comment I recommended adding a lot of loot effects for draw. Loot is excellent with Blood Speaker and Speaker is a good reason to play Demon tribal since it's a tribal tutor that can be repeatable, return to your hand from your graveyard. Rakdos can reduce Speaker's mana cost to only 1 mana, making it a mana efficient way to repeatedly tutor for Demons.

Loot can be an enabler for reanimation and recursion which are helpful effects to have with Demons. Reanimation is a way to get Demons onto the battlefield without having to cast them, a backup for when Rakdos is disrupted. Recursion is getting Demons back into your hand or casting them from your graveyard. Patriarch's Bidding can reanimate all Demons in your graveyard. Persist and Exhume can reanimate for only two mana.

Chainer, Nightmare Adept has interaction with looting, getting Demons into your graveyard to cast them using Rakdos mana cost reduction. If you discard a Demon using Chainer's ability you can cast that same Demon giving it haste to attack. Rakdos also gains haste from Chainer when he's cast from the Command Zone. Any creature you reanimate gains haste from Chainer.

Chainer has excellent interaction with creatures who can sac themselves for value such as Magus of the Wheel and Doomed Necromancer. With Chainer these creatures gain haste when cast from your graveyard allowing them to tap and activate their abilities right away. Doomed Necromancer can reanimate even at instant speed. Chainer is good with Blood Speaker as discard outlet that can keep coming back to your hand.


Some more budget Demons to consider adding:

Some budget land upgrades to consider:

Temple of the False God is not a good land when you have no land ramp. It will not tap for mana until at least turn five and that's if you make all your land drops. Even if playing green and land ramp such as Cultivate I still wouldn't play Temple of the False God, it's just not a good enough land in the early turns of a game.

legendofa on Ziatora Calls Upon the Demons

3 months ago

Okay, let's take a look at some of these. First note is, budget isn't really a concern, because pretty much all of my games are online these days, through servers like Cockatrice.

Master of Cruelty, Demonlord Belzenlok, and Burning-Rune Demon were all on my short list. Master of Cruelty is a little too build-around for my preference in this deck, but it's a great card. Belzenlok and B-R Demon would help to give it consistency, and Belzenlok in particular has a good chance of finding its way back in.

I had overlooked Dragon Tempest, so that's definitely going in.

I'll play around with Raphael, Fiendish Savior, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, and Rakshasa Debaser and see what they do for this deck. I especially like the lifelink, since this deck plays more recklessly than my usual style.

This is my first Demon tribal deck, so I'm still working out the details. The 6-8 mana slots fill up fast. Incidentally, how do you submit a deck to EDHrec?

Once again, thanks for the suggestions!

BigBadE on Killing by giving opponents "positive" …

5 months ago

I'm trying to make a "kill them with kindness deck". The basic idea is to give opponents cards I have with things like Blim, Comedic Genius. This is easy enough, and there are a lot of cards you can give opponents that just have inherent downsides. However, is there any way to lose from positive effects? For example:

  • Forcing an opponent to draw enough to mill them to death

  • Any card that takes life for some non-optional trigger (for example, Demonlord Belzenlok, Kothophed, Soul Hoarder. Phage the Untouchable technically works but I'd like something more like Belzenlok or Kothophed, which takes life.)

  • Any other gimmicks that can be abused to deal damage with things like token generation, mana generation, draw, etc... (like if mana burn was still around, giving your opponent a ton of mana)

This is limited by two factors:

  1. I can't find any way to force opponents to cast instants/sorceries (If you know of one, I'd love to hear it!)

  2. I can't find any way to force trigger abilities on an opponent's creatures (maybe can I give them to an opponent after triggering the ability? Any possible way to do this is welcome as well).

Any ideas are welcome, I know it's a strange idea but I bet there are a few cards that would work.

Ca1m_down on BlitzKrieg

6 months ago

Hey, cool list. I think there are a couple of different ways of building Henzie and I feel like you have a couple of different ideas going on here. Here are my thoughts on the different themes you can focus on that synergize with Henzie's abilities:

Cost reduction (making big impactful creature cost as little as possible to cast multiple in a turn every turn) Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma, Nylea, Keen-Eyed, Cloud Key, The Immortal Sun, Marauding Raptor, Heartless Summoning, Krosan Drover, Goblin Anarchomancer, Semblance Anvil

"Blink" (lots of undying, persist, and plenty of "Feign Death" effects to maximize etb/dies triggers and keep the creatures after blitz) Cauldron of Souls, Conjurer's Closet, Kaya's Ghostform, Supernatural Stamina, Blood for Bones, Undying Malice, Minion's Return, Demonic Gifts, Abnormal Endurance, Unholy Indenture, Return to Action, Fake Your Own Death, Flayer of the Hatebound, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Puppeteer Clique, Woodfall Primus, Murderous Redcap, Faceless Butcher

Value Town (maximize card advantage, keep the cards flowing, recursion, keep non-creature count low) Guardian Project, The Great Henge, Greater Good, Lifeblood Hydra, Demonlord Belzenlok, Gorex, the Tombshell, Deadwood Treefolk, Acolyte of Affliction, Evolutionary Leap

I think doing a combination of these three things is solid, but I'd recommend focusing on one and trying to keep the game plan somewhat focused. My brew leans towards Value Town.

Things in your current list that I'm a little skeptical of:

Sundial of the Infinite I think since Henzie is only giving us a small mana discount, this would just be used as a weird "your creatures have haste". I think you often want to take advantage of the "when this dies, draw" rather than 1+ mana cost reduction.

Deathreap Ritual This doesn't trigger if your creatures are dying in your end step to blitz, creatures need to die before the end step for the Ritual trigger to go on the stack. Even if that wasn't the case, I feel like it's better in decks where you're the one making sure it's triggering on each of your opponents turns. What Henzie is doing doesn't really help with doing that. I feel like Moldervine Reclamation would be similar in concept, but more synergistic once the deck is going (but I also don't think it's worth an inclusion).

Living Death How are you filling your yard? Henzie doesn't get cards into your yard very quickly. I think the is a card that fits better in decks that are doing plenty of looting and self milling. It's very likely the other graveyard players will benefit more than you when you cast this.

Most of your creatures that are less than 4 cmc don't seem like they do enough with Henzie to take a slot. I think you'd be better off if your CMC<4 mana stuff was non-creatures that ramp and/or setup for your game plan. I can understand the sac outlet ones if you're really taking advantage of the instant speed aspect, but most of the time you're having to sac end of turn anyway, so I think it'd be better to take advantage of the better payoff of the non-creature sac outlets (like Evo Leap, Vampiric Rites, the various Altars, Greater Good, etc.) As far as mana dorks, I feel like 2 mana ramp spells will help more in the long run. I don't think Henzie is powerful enough of a turn 2 play to risk losing mana sources to pings and/or wraths.

All that being said, it's great seeing other peoples takes on Henzie. I've certainly gained a bunch from reading your comment on my decklist and thinking critically about yours. I'll try and keep my list updated as I play it more. It's been a blast so far. If I didn't already have a black based "blink" deck I think I'd probably lean Henzie towards that strat. :)

Epicurus on Satoru, the green ninja

7 months ago

A couple evasion creatures that I like to use with Ninjutsu are Soulsworn Spirit and Fogwalker, because of their reusable ETB triggers on top of being unlockable (or, at least hard to block, in the case of Fogwalker).

As for your big creatures, the Eldrazi are all awesome just for having big bodies, but remember that you don't get the "as you cast" triggers when you use Ninjutsu to cheat them onto the battlefield, nor would their attack triggers activate (i.e. Annihilator). So I would limit how many of them you use down to just Kozilek, the Great Distortion, because it has a good activated ability. I'd replace the others with creatures that either have ETB triggers or damage triggers.

I have a running list of creatures I'd like to use for Satoru, but I don't want to name off a million cards. The highlights, though, are:

And even that is a long list, so I apologize. Obviously, Palinchron would be great, even without the combo(s), but you already mentioned that.

Cheers!

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