|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2017 (C17)||Rare|
|Commander 2014 (C14)||Rare|
|Mirrodin Besieged (MBS)||Rare|
|Mirrodin Besieged: Mirran (MBM)||Rare|
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White Sun's Zenith
Put X 2/2 Cat creature tokens onto the battlefield. Shuffle White Sun's Zenith into its owner's library.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (20)||Tiddilywinkus , ironax , orzhov_is_relatively_okay819 , Ashy , Dr_Jay , almeidafabio , VGJustice , Venser_the_Sojoner , TheAlmostHero , shinobigarth , , Swamy , SketchyScribbler , miracle , lolpatrol , AlucardZain , Razulghul , rockleemyhero , mziter501 , DarkMagician|
White Sun's Zenith Discussion
1 week ago
I feel like this deck is not focused enough on the theme of "make tons of tokens." You have a lot of cards that make tokens, but many of them don't really do it efficiently. Some examples:
Awaken the Sky Tyrant - makes only one token, and only if an opponent lets you make it.
Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts - makes tokens only if your opponents let you
Skyline Despot - makes one token per turn if your opponents let you (or if you leave back plenty of defense)
Ghirapur Gearcrafter - makes one token
Descent of the Dragons - this is secretly a one-shot anthem that doesn't let you attack the turn you cast it
Dragonmaster Outcast - makes one token per turn on turn 6+ if your opponents can't kill a 1/1
Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs - makes tokens if your opponents let you
Custodi Soulbinders - makes tokens for 3 mana each if there are a decent number of creatures out when you cast it
You get the idea.
Personally I'd try to run five or six anthem effects and hit the token makers really hard. I counted thirteen anthem effects in this version of the deck. Also, one anthem effect comes to mind that you aren't running - Jazal Goldmane. That card should play better than either Mikaeus or Ravos (both of which I'd cut).
Efficient token makers you could run: White Sun's Zenith, Bitterblossom (harder to kill than Outcast), Secure the Wastes, Goblin Trenches, Storm Herd, Sacred Mesa, Requiem Angel, Elenda, the Dusk Rose, Thopter Assembly (if you don't run other Thopter makers), Hanweir Garrison, Rise of the Hobgoblins, Twilight Drover. I think Legion's Landing could potentially work in here too - it's inefficient from a mana perspective but it's a one-drop that shouldn't be too hard to flip and at that point it taps for mana. Which brings me to
Lands: There's quite a few lands that I think could play well here. Kjeldoran Outpost, Kher Keep, Vault of the Archangel, Hanweir Battlements (if you run the Garrison), or Windbrisk Heights. Creature lands are also secretly good here because they benefit from your anthems and let you mount an offense even when untapping on an empty board after a sweeper. Ghitu Encampment, Needle Spires, Lavaclaw Reaches, Shambling Vent, Mishra's Factory and so on.
Haste: If you're going to make a ton of tokens, you really want to bash with them right away, before your opponents can sweep your board. I like Hammer of Purphoros here because it makes tokens and Ogre Battledriver because it doubles as a pseudo-Anthem, but there's also Fervor, Anger, Akroma's Memorial and probably other cards I haven't thought of.
I definitely think there's potential for this deck concept. Just remember that Dragon tokens and anthems don't go in the same deck (except Crucible of Fire). Good luck!
1 week ago
I do love me a good token deck (I have a 5-colour that's essentially RGW but splashing UB for the commander (Sliver Queen). Here are some suggestions I have:
Champion of Lambholt - Makes creatures unblockable and gets bigger as you play more creatures.
Hornet Queen - One of the best flying defenses for GW, especially once you start populating.
Odric, Master Tactician - Makes your creatures essentially unblockable when they attack since you choose how the defenders block when you attack with him.
Ant Queen - A great mana sink if you're stuck with too much mana.
Worldspine Wurm - A bit on the expensive side mana-wise, but generates big tokens when it dies. Also it goes back into your deck so you can use it again.
Giant Adephage - If you're willing to be more aggressive, defintely consider this. A big 7/7 trample that makes a token of itself whenever it deals combat damage can become a problem very quickly.
Verdant Force - Makes tokens very turn (including your opponents' turns).
Doubling Season - A better version of Primal Vigor. I would a straight swap here because Primal Vigor affects your opponents too, while Doubling Season only affects you. Also it causes your planeswalkers to enter with double the loyalty counters, meaning you can ult some of them the turn they come in.
Fanatical Devotion - Lets you sacrifice your tokens to save your more important creatures.
True Conviction - A bit expensive mana-wise, but the double strike and lifelink is super useful.
Zendikar Resurgent - Doubles your mana and lets you draw cards when you play a creature spell.
Sterling Grove - If you want to protect your enchantments then use this. Also lets you tutor an enchantment to the top of your deck by sacrificing it.
Ashnod's Altar - Sacrifice a creature for two mana. Always good.
Mosswort Bridge - A hideaway land that you can easily trigger due to the number of creatures you'll have out.
Deploy to the Front - Get tokens equal to the number of creatures already on the battlefield.
White Sun's Zenith - Makes tokens and then shuffles back into your deck. Instant speed tokens are always handy to have.
Arachnogenesis - Stops combat damage and creates tokens. Situational but useful.
Hope these suggestions help!
2 weeks ago
Unless you already have the Gideons, I wouldn't run them.
Instead, I would go Restoration Angel and Spell Queller since you really lack a way to close out games or put some pressure. These flyers do that pretty well. White Sun's Zenith is also surprisingly good, though Secure the Wastes is arguably better since it's much easier to cast, but mostly interesting if you run Snapcaster Mage.
If you wanna reduce the price even more, get rid of fetches and play Hallowed Fountain instead.
2 weeks ago
The deck looks good overall though, especially its affordability! +1
3 weeks ago
The second outing for Karametra last night was in a six player battle.
Kararmetra won again in a very close and exciting battle to keep her 100% win record.
1 month ago
The lands definitely jump out at me as being not ideal. I'd Vivid Crag, Vivid Grove, and Vivid Meadow are almost always better than evolving wilds and terramorphic expanse. Rith's Grove is bad. I'd try out Krosan Verge. That's a must-play for me in white-green.
I'd probably run Secure the Wastes over White Sun's Zenith. I've never been impressed with Dictate of Heliod. True Conviction also seems like a card that's not quite as good as it was when we started playing. It's also not as good with 1/1's; you need a pump for it not to be +1/+1.
1 month ago
Onyx77: Hey! Thanks for the feedback here, main reason of this is because White Sun's Zenith is supposed to be a sideboard against slow decks that run Izzet Staticaster, the 2/2 Cats will avoid this removal and threaten the board.
1 month ago
This is "kinda sorta" budget, but not even "kinda sorta" control.
Control (sometimes called permission) decks, play the long game, and win by using a FEW copies of cards that once resolved will inevitably win the game, see White Sun's Zenith for example.
To achieve this they tend to run a LOT of card draw/filtering (like Opt, Serum Visions, Search for Azcanta Flip, Think Twice, Sphinx's Revelation... etc.) in general ten or more.They also run permission spells, counterspells and removal that work no questions asked. Logic Knot, Cryptic Command, Dispel - all counter spells at all stages of the game, no questions asked, on the other hand Remand & Mana Leak are the finest tempo spells the format can offer, as they are perfect at DELAYING stuff.
Same applies to targeted discard, it won't do much if tron topdecks Karn Liberated.
This deck is a very fine tempo deck, but please do't call it control. This attitude of calling everything control that has a counterspell in it fuels a multitude of misconceptions, like the format being 30% control, or that big mana decks, like tron, or valakut beat control (while in reality they beat tempo, that is for some weird reason is labelled as control)