|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander Anthology 2018 (CM2)||Rare|
|Commander 2016 (C16)||Rare|
|Tenth Edition (10E)||Rare|
|Ninth Edition (9ED)||Rare|
|Ninth Edition Foreign Black Border (9EDFBB)||Rare|
|Deckmasters: Garfield vs. Finkel (DKM)||Rare|
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|Classic Sixth Edition (6ED)||Rare|
|Fifth Edition (5ED)||Rare|
|Ice Age (ICE)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
: Gain .
: Gain or . Underground River deals 1 damage to you.
|Have (5)||Rageface090 , , rockleemyhero , Bluboltar , dbregman8585|
|Want (9)||JohnnyRamen , FancyKilerWales , pianoconnor , maaaaaaaax , Serj , PepperJack , RumplesForeSkin , gmcannon , Zerxes_WolfHawk|
Underground River Discussion
1 week ago
Narset, Parter of Veils is a great way to limit your competitive opponents. Especially if you pair her with a well-timed Windfall . Ashiok, Dream Render happens to be another way to punish people for playing tutor-tribal kinds of strategies.
Another hallmark of competitive decks is their ramp, especially zero and two-mana. In your description, you say you want to stay budget -- unfortunately, that rules out about all of the good zero mana ramp. ( Mox Tantalite is bad, and Mox Amber is hardly better most of the time.) So I suggest increasing your two-mana ramp, and maybe including Ancient Tomb if at all possible to speed up their presence on the board. Some to consider: Talisman of Progress , Talisman of Hierarchy , Talisman of Dominance , Coldsteel Heart , Fellwar Stone , Mind Stone , Everflowing Chalice , Prismatic Lens , etc. None of these should be more than a few bucks.
Concerning your lands: I think you're running too many, especially if you add some of the ramp mentioned in (3). I'd cut four-ish, maybe five. Generally, once you have a few (3 - 4) lands, you'd rather have a rock and a land in hand than just two lands, since you can cast the rock without using your land-drop. I'm not sure HOW budget you want to keep this deck, but Mana Confluence and City of Brass are each around $10, and they're great in any three or more color deck. Pain lands ( Caves of Koilos , Adarkar Wastes and Underground River ) are better than your tapped lands like Sejiri Refuge , as far as I can tell.
I think a reanimation package is probably better than running Show and Tell . Show and Tell is symmetrical, and is often actively dangerous to resolve in EDH, when everyone is trying to do busted stuff. I'm much more a fan of Buried Alive and Entomb to get your fatties in the bin, and then using Animate Dead , Dance of the Dead , Reanimate and/or Necromancy (which is $$$ for some reason) to get them back.
Tutors like your Demonic Tutor are good, but like zero mana rocks they tend to be pricy (see Vampiric Tutor and Enlightened Tutor ). One I do suggest is Lim-Dul's Vault , which is only a couple dollars these days. It also happens to be instant speed, which is kinda dumb-powerful, if you ask me.
Cumulative upkeep was designed to make powerful effects transient; however, Aminatou, the Fateshifter sorta changes that equation with her -1. Consider cards like Mystic Remora , which you can blink to keep around relatively indefinitely. Similar cards to consider are: Musician , Phyrexian Etchings , Tidal Control and Infernal Darkness (if you're particularly mean).
Divining Witch is interesting -- I'd actually never seen that card before. If you're trying to exile your deck and win with your Jace, Wielder of Mysteries , I think Demonic Consultation is probably a better way... though you might want to keep both. Another method (that I think is worse) is to use the card Doomsday , which is only a few dollars. The problem is that if you run Doomsday , you'd likely want to run a Doomsday -package, so you could win by just casting it and drawing into your top card... For that, I'd suggest talking to someone smarter than me, as I've never been able to get the hang of what the hell is going on with that strategy. All I know is that the package usually has something like Gitaxian Probe and Lotus Petal and ends with me being dead.
You may have good luck with card draw spells. Repeatable effects, like Phyrexian Arena and/or Dark Confidant , tend to be expensive; luckily, the spell versions are often decidedly less so. I suggest running a few or more of the following: Painful Truths , Night's Whisper , Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time (running both can be tough since delve can get in its own way), Fact or Fiction , Thirst for Knowledge , Concentrate , Chemister's Insight , Oona's Grace (questionable, due to the high mana requirement), Ancient Excavation (good with the reanimation mentioned in (5)), Archmage's Charm , Chart a Course , Syphon Mind , Deep Analysis and/or Words of Wisdom -- pay extra attention to the instants you can cast on an opponents end step. Another way to do this is simply to steal your opponents' card draw with Notion Thief or Plagiarize .
Lastly, I know its around $11 these days, but I think Counterbalance would be dumb in this deck. Using your general's +1 will let you stack whatever you want on top, which can be especially devastating if you can keep an opponent's general off the board that way.
Good luck man! Love this deck.
1 week ago
I'm sorry to be the bad guy, but this deck is far too slow to be competitive. It may be in your local meta, but it will be eaten alive in a tournament.
An average cmc >3 is bad. The closer to 2 the better.
Many of your lands enter tapped, which is a waste of space and significantly hurts your speed.
City of Brass
Cavern of Souls
I would run 6 or 7 counters. 3 of your 4 are unfavorable. Drop everything but counterspell. Check out:
Flusterstorm instead of dispel.
Delay over spell crumble (if you're playing a true competitive deck, they'll just tutor the card back up))
Disallow is the only 3 drop work running.
Swan Song is also better than dispel.
Pact of negation is okay at best. 5 cost isn't worth it it stifles your next turn.
I can tell you like desertion given your artifact selection. There is only one word to describe that card. BAD. Take it out.
That's all I have for you. It's a decent deck. I like the build outside of the artifacts, counters, and lands. Change them up and you'll be amazed how much better this deck will become. It'll be significant.
2 weeks ago
Made a few more changes to the deck to help with its consistency. Replaced Heliod, God of the Sun and Thassa, God of the Sea with Mana Vault and Mystic Remora . Probably should have removed the gods a long time ago since they didn't really fit with the deck, but I had a soft spot for them. Mana Vault is another card to help cast Enduring Ideal ahead of schedule and Mystic Remora is another card draw enchantment that can get pretty ridiculous in a game with a lot of opponents or when used in conjunction with Solemnity . Also upgraded the land base a bit more adding Underground River and the Esper filter lands in place of some basics and Maze of Ith . I like Maze of Ith , but too often it can be a liability when you just want mana and with these changes it should be much more consistent in getting your colours out as well.
2 weeks ago
Hey, interesting version of Varina, but why only 21 Zombies?
DemMeowsephs has the right idea try to make all your sources of white and blue come from dual lands that can make black mana or fetch you black mana. Budget lands to consider adding:
Adding these dual lands can let you cut Plains and Islands for more Swamps. Or some could replace lackluster dual lands such as Tranquil Cove and Sejiri Refuge.
Zombies within the budget to consider adding:
- Zombie Master : with Urborg makes all your Zombies unblockable and can protect them with regeneration.
- Undead Augur
- Stitcher's Supplier
- Plague Belcher
- Death Baron : good defense, your opponents are not going to want to attack you if all your Zombies have deathtouch.
- Dreadhorde Invasion
Varina can gain you life which can make Command the Dreadhorde a powerful mass reanimation spell since it can also reanimate your opponents' creatures/Planeswalkers. Liliana, Death's Majesty is good for Zombies; all of her loyalty abilities are busted repeatable effects. It's helpful to play at least one Planeswalker if choosing to play Command the Dreadhorde.
Wonder and Filth can be good support since Varina is an enabler to get cards into your graveyard making these essentially free effects. Giving flying or Swampwalk to your Zombie horde can be game winning. Cut more Plains than Islands if choose to play Wonder.
Cards to consider cutting:
- Tranquil Cove and Sejiri Refuge
- Macabre Waltz
- Cemetery Recruitment
- Hedron Archive
- Ever After
- Geralf's Mindcrusher
- Swiftfoot Boots
- Graf Harvest
Good luck with your deck.
2 weeks ago
As far as lands go,
Are all some pretty good staples. They will help you bring up that blue mana % without losing out on the black mana you need. It will keep your deck consistent in obtaining color profile.
3 weeks ago
Hey! I always thought Shrauum was a cool commander, and I love that you're running Zur's Weirding (it's one of my favorite cards). Here're some suggestions -- feel free to ignore any/all of them:
Xerox cards are your friend. Ponder and Preordain belong in pretty much any blue deck, as they can dig you to what you need and past what you don't. Being one mana means they make marginal opening sevens into acceptable hands. Similarly, Brainstorm is fully capable of being very good, though it requires more of a build-around. In order for it to be good, you need some cards to assure that you don't get Brainstorm -locked; that is, stuck with two cards you don't want on top of your library after resolving Brainstorm . The easiest way to deal with this is to simply crack a fetchland after resolution, as the shuffle-effect unlocks you. While the Onslaught and Zendikar fetches are the best for this, Evolving Wilds , Terramorphic Expanse , Prismatic Vista or even just Flood Plain or Bad River are good, too.
Currently, Narset, Parter of Veils is one of the most busted cards in EDH. Preventing decks from drawing extra cards essentially means she is a 'must answer' before anything else can happen, and if you pair her with your Windfall you can win the card-advantage war in one fell swoop; this interaction is also favorable with your Dark Deal .
Speaking of card-advantage, you are in the best colors for it. Fact or Fiction is a very good card, especially since you put the pile you don't choose into your graveyard. Since your general reanimates artifacts, this means the card is straight card-advantage. Treasure Cruise and Painful Truths are two draw-threes I've been very impressed with, mainly due to their frequently low casting cost. Dig Through Time is one that is good too, though I don't advise running it and Treasure Cruise at the same time, as delve can get in its own way. I think Treasure Cruise is better if you want to keep your combos secondary, and Dig Through Time , which provides more card selection and less card advantage, is good if you want your combos to take the front seat.
As you mention in your description, your landbase can use some work. This, I think, is actually not as big a deal as one might think though, since you have a lot of very good two-mana mana-rocks that produce your colors. Still, if you're looking to improve the deck, this is an area with potential. If you end up running fetch lands, be they Onslaught, Zendikar or Slow (see (1)'s Flood Plain ), you should at least run the on-color shock lands. Godless Shrine , Hallowed Fountain and Watery Grave can all enter untapped, and being able to grab them with a fetch land means their odds of coming out in a game go up drastically. You may want to run them even sans fetches. Mana Confluence and City of Brass are good, as they are tri-lands that ETB untapped. The check lands (that is, Drowned Catacomb , Glacial Fortress and Isolated Chapel ) are only a few dollars now and offer consistent improvement. The pain lands ( Underground River , Adarkar Wastes and Caves of Koilos ) should also be considered.
One card that I think you should test with is Bitter Ordeal . This IS a combo card, but I think it is likely better than most of the other ways to profit off infinite death/ETB triggers associated with your general + copying artifact combo. There are several reasons I say this. One, it is a sorcery. This means that, if you choose to run Mystical Tutor (which I suggest you do), it can find the payoff half of your combo; right now, this would only be true if you run Enlightened Tutor (I also advise this). Running an artifact/enchantment payoff to grab with Enlightened Tutor and another sorcery-based payoff to grab with Mystical Tutor means that you can tutor for a win-condition card off either of the tutors. Second, there are fewer answers to a sorcery than a permanent. Winning with Disciple of the Vault or Altar of the Brood requires that they stay on the field throughout the resolution of the combo; a well timed Abrupt Decay , Isolate or Swords to Plowshares / Nature's Claim means lights out. While Bitter Ordeal can be countered, so can the permanents; running Bitter Ordeal just means you narrow the number of possible answers your opponents can have. Third and finally, Bitter Ordeal is really only stopped by a Leyline of Sanctity effect. It is worth noting that there are ways that opponents can prevent being milled out by Altar of the Brood (like running Kozilek, Butcher of Truth and even benefit from it ( Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Whisper, Blood Liturgist come to mind), and ways that they can avoid dying to infinite drain ( Lich , Platinum Emperion and Platinum Angel come to mind). Again, Bitter Ordeal just limits the number of answers opponents can have.
Alright. That's all I got. Good luck!
1 month ago
So, I have a couple suggestions. I found this deck under the 'help' tab, but your description doesn't ask for help. So please forgive me if I sound presumptuous.
Preordain . Ponder and Brainstorm are already in your deck, and Preordain will help dig to lands if you need them, and past lands if you don't. One-mana cantrips are some of the best cards for getting a deck more powerful. Importantly, running more cantrips means that you can cut a land or two, meaning your deck will have a higher average card power.
Your mana-base has room for improvement. Watery Grave is great, especially if you end up running fetch lands. Zendikar/Onslaught fetches like Polluted Delta or Misty Rainforest are easily the best fetches, but slow-type like Bad River and Rocky Tar Pit can also be useful. Also, consider Prismatic Vista . With a high concentration of land-based shuffle effects, Brainstorm becomes more and more powerful. Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse are good substitutes. Sunken Hollow and Fetid Pools are also fetch-able. Other duals, like Underground River , Morphic Pool and Choked Estuary are also good.
In non-green EDH decks, artifact ramp is of prime importance. Talisman of Dominance , Fellwar Stone , Mind Stone and Thought Vessel are all great. Two-mana rocks are significantly better than three-mana rocks in EDH, as by the time you have three mana you usually want to do more powerful things than cast a rock. Additionally, if you end up running Ancient Tomb or Mana Crypt (which are hard to get ahold of), you can land a two-mana rock turn-one. Mana Vault also happens to be busted.
In magic, it happens that it's a LOT easier to exile your deck than an opponent's. Jace, Wielder of Mysteries works great in Doomsday -style decks; if you're smarter than me, you can probably use Doomsday to tutor up your infinite mana combo. More simply, you can just cast Demonic Consultation with Jace, Wielder of Mysteries on the table, naming a card not in your deck (I generally use Atog or Singing Tree ), and then draw a card to win. So you may want to include Demonic Consultation and/or Doomsday , the latter if you have a lot of power in the brain-thingy.
I see you're running Ashiok, Dream Render ; I love that card. Narset, Parter of Veils is also worth running, especially if you choose to include Windfall . Narset's been kicking ass in Vintage recently, and I have found her to be completely nuts in EDH.
I may be missing something, but I am unsure as to why you're running Seat of the Synod and Vault of Whispers . If you had a Mox Opal in the list they might make more sense, but as things stand I think they're just worse than Island s and Swamp s. Back to Basics , Blood Moon , Magus of the Moon , By Force , Null Rod , Stony Silence and Collector Ouphe are all rampant in EDH (at least in my experience), so I think you'd be better off cutting the artifact-lands.
Vision Skeins is an interesting include; you may be interested in running Words of Wisdom , which gets your opponents less out of the card. Also, if you run Notion Thief , the card is pure value. Note also that Vision Skeins becomes Words of Wisdom if you have Narset, Parter of Veils out.
Ovinize is worse than Rapid Hybridization or Pongify , in my opinion. I think you should run two to three boardwipes -- Cyclonic Rift , Toxic Deluge and Damnation are the best ones, I think, with Toxic Deluge on top (you can cast it while Gaddock Teeg is down).
Demonic Tutor is the best tutor, and Scheming Symmetry is good in a deck heavy in mill effects. There're some other good tutors to consider, of varying price: Vampiric Tutor , Diabolic Tutor , Fabricate (to get Isochron Scepter ), Mystical Tutor (for your Dramatic Reversal ), Dark Petition , Beseech the Queen , Mastermind's Acquisition and Lim-Dul's Vault are all good. Ideally, you wouldn't include the four-mana tutors, since they tend to take a whole turn to resolve. I suggest running around two or three more tutors than you have now.
There're a couple of ways to generate card-advantage that I think are worth including in a final list of this deck. I'm not entirely certain how the deck plays, but if you have Oona, Queen of the Fae out frequently without an infinite-mana combo, Skullclamp is definitely worth including. Sticking it on one of your faerie tokens means butt-loads of card-advantage. Slate of Ancestry is similarly good if you tend to have a high creature-count. Fact or Fiction and Chemister's Insight are alright instant-speed card-draw. Phyrexian Arena is a good piece of permanent-based card-draw, and Dark Confidant , if you have access to it, is great with your low average CMC. Speaking of low CMC, Ad Nauseam is a great card-draw spell; I recommend including it for the high-value card-draw.
If you want to pour money in here, Cavern of Souls is a great way to make sure your general isn't countered.
There're a few counterspells you don't have that I think you might find useful. Counterspell itself is good, and it's far pricier cousin, Mana Drain , is also great. Spell Snare , Swan Song and Flusterstorm are all great counters as well. Turn Aside is one I've thought about but never used... you may want to consider it.
If you choose to keep mainly basics and avoid the duals mentioned in (2), consider Back to Basics . The card is under $10 nowadays, and it's a great way to punish greedy mana bases.
Ok! That's all I got. Good luck, man!
1 month ago
I see a few areas for improvement:
So one of the main reasons to play green is the mana dorks. You should at least be running Birds of Paradise , Llanowar Elves and Elves of Deep Shadow , and you should probably be running a few more as well. Fyndhorn Elves , Elvish Mystic , Priest of Titania , Arbor Elf , Bloom Tender , Boreal Druid and Deathrite Shaman are also worth considering.
Card-draw is a big part of EDH. Distant Melody is good in any tribal deck, and depending on your typical board presence Slate of Ancestry may be worth considering, too. Fact or Fiction , Painful Truths , Treasure Cruise , Dig Through Time , Night's Whisper , Windfall , Harmonize and Concentrate are also good draw-spells. Sylvan Library and Phyrexian Arena are good pieces of permanent-based card-advantage. Mystic Remora is excellent, if transient, and at more inexperienced tables it can easily be an Ancestral Recall .
Your mana-base is worth rethinking, too. Overgrown Tomb , Breeding Pool and Watery Grave are all relatively affordable these days (because of the reprint), and City of Brass and Mana Confluence are worth running in a three-color deck, too. Depending on your budget, you may want to run fetch-lands like Polluted Delta or Prismatic Vista ; lower-budget options include Bad River , Flood Plain or the other slow-fetches. Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse , too. Llanowar Wastes , Yavimaya Coast , Underground River , Waterlogged Grove , Nurturing Peatland , Hinterland Harbor , Woodland Cemetery and Drowned Catacomb are more good dual-lands.
If you do end up running any sort of fetches, you'll have a bunch of shuffle-effects. This means Brainstorm becomes a powerful spell, as you can shuffle away bad cards while digging for the ones you want. Ponder , Preordain and Impulse are great as well.
Tutors are great -- then you don't even need to bother digging, as you can just go get what you want. Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are the gold standard, but as a pair they'll likely run you around $100. Diabolic Tutor , Lim-Dul's Vault and Dark Petition are all far more accessible. Mystical Tutor and Worldly Tutor are also good, though I don't think they'd be as good as the non-restricted tutors.
You also need to consider removal. Toxic Deluge , Pernicious Deed , Damnation , Decree of Pain and Cyclonic Rift are all great boardwipes. Nature's Claim , Krosan Grip , Casualties of War , Assassin's Trophy , Abrupt Decay , Windgrace's Judgment and Ashes to Ashes are good forms of spot-removal.
Finally, you might want to consider a reanimation package. Entomb or Buried Alive paired with Animate Dead , Reanimate , Dance of the Dead or Necromancy is a great way to get fatties out fast. Reanimating Grave Titan , Massacre Wurm or Inkwell Leviathan can swing the game in your favor real fast.
Underground River occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.07%
UB (Dimir): 1.98%
UBR (Grixis): 0.82%
WUB (Esper): 0.67%
BUG (Sultai): 0.68%