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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Arena | Legal |
| Block Constructed | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Gladiator | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Historic | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Modern | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Pioneer | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Tiny Leaders | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Drowned Catacomb
Land
This enters the battlefield tapped unless you control an Island or a Swamp.
: Add or .
![[Mirko Vosk] The Shirtless Mill Guy thumbnail](http://static.tappedout.net/chart/0-65-35-0-0-small.png)
Dead_Blue_ on
This zombie tribal deck needs help
5 months ago
Drowned Catacomb or Darkslick Shores over Bad River you really don’t want lands that come into play tapped
Necramus on
Queza, the Queefer
6 months ago
Okay. So, I think you should really lean into the control/combo shell. This deck could use combos like Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood, with some added redundancy in the forms of Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose and Marauding Blight-Priest, or Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion to close out the game. In order to accomplish this, I think you should cut a ton of the creatures and really lean into board wipes, control spells, and resource denial.
Things like:
You could also do cute stuff like Phyrexian Unlife + Solemnity, giving yourself time to wipe the board again or go for the win with Peer into the Abyss. You should also consider taking a look at your mana base.
I'd suggest going for some fetches, checks, and shocks like:
You also have way too many plains right now. Even before you get the lands I just named, you should cut 6 Plains for 4 Swamp and 2 Island.
I know I've given you a lot of suggestions. I think if you tried putting a list together with all the cards I named, plus some of the bangers from your current list and you'd have a badass deck! Don't worry about trying to do all that right now, though. See which look most appealing/are in your price range and add those first. A lot of these should be long term goals!
Don't tell Rett I gave you so many suggestions XD
-Blake
legendofa on Self Mill deck mana help
8 months ago
Welcome to the club, wschlobohm!
The win conditions here are Laboratory Maniac and Spider Spawning, is that correct? If so, you're going to want more than one of each. I recommend 3-4 of each.
As Balaam__ says, there are a few cards here that aren't in many self-mill decks, and some of them are pushing your average mana value up. Craterhoof Behemoth, Rune-Scarred Demon, and Resolute Archangel in particular are probably not going to help that much. This deck has almost no way to generate mana quickly, so those cards are going to be sitting in your hand for a long time before seeing use. Cutting them and replacing them with less mana-hungry cards will be a strong first step.
Archaeomancer isn't really living up to its potential here, with a total of five instants and sorceries. It can come out and be saved for a more spell-centric deck.
Third thought, you have only two white cards in here, and I already suggested cutting one of them. If you take out Planar Cleansing as well, that should tighten up your mana immensely.
This point will require a higher budget, but take a look at multicolor lands that enter untapped. Anything from Llanowar Wastes to Drowned Catacomb to Breeding Pool will accelerate your deck, since you can use lands the turn they're played.
My final thought for the moment is to take a close look at every card and ask, Does it put cards in my graveyard? Does it take advantage of cards in my graveyard? Does it directly win me the game? If the answer to all of these for any card is no, then that card can probably be taken out and replaced with a card that does advance your game plan.
Look to get four copies of the cards you want to use most. This will increase your odds of drawing those cards.
If you want to look into more competitive decks along these lines, check out Dredge and Reanimator decks. Both of these strategies are based around filling your graveyard as quickly as possible and using it as a new resource. Alternatively, Laboratory Maniac and its friends Thassa's Oracle and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries are the centerpiece of a common instant-win Commander strategy, if you prefer that angle
And above all, have fun!
RNR_Gaming on New secret lair Alert!
11 months ago
Anyways with that whole kickstarter thing going on I noticed that the professor hasn't made a video so in case anyone was wondering
Some regular guys non-foil/foil
Void Winnower - 16.07/20.46
Vengevine - 10.71/12.95
Collector Ouphe - 5.63/33.07
Goblin Settler - 48.71/N/a
Non foil: 81.12 Foil: 115.19
Foil: B / non-foil: C+
There's a good bit of value with this secret lair. Goblin settlers getting its' first foil printing is definitely noteworthy. Also, if you're into the Adventure Time art style you'll like be picking this up anyways.
Showcase: Streets of New Capenna
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - 30.77/35.53
Breya, Etherium Shaper - 7.98/9.84
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - N/A/8.84
Non-foil: 47.59 foil: 54.21
Non-foil - D foil: C-
This grade pains me because I REALLY think the art on these is beautiful and they'll likely include a Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis in the same style as a bonus card but putting personal preferance and speculation aside the value just is not here.
Special Guest: Matt Jukes Foil Edition
Glacial Fortress - 3.71/11.25
Drowned Catacomb - 7.28/17.46
Dragonskull Summit - 3.79/6.96
Rootbound Crag - 3.81/6.55
Sunpetal Grove - 3.89/5.96
Non-foil: 22.48 foil: 48.18
Non-foil - F foil - D-
The value in these really speaks for itself.
Artist Series: Magali Villeneuve
Mother of Runes - 4.91/Varies
Death's Shadow - 6.12/10.19
Elvish Mystic - .45/9.97
Forest - N/A
Non-foil - 11.48 Foil: N/A
Non-foil - F Foil - D-
The biggest thing out of this lair is the foil Mother of Runes the prices fluctuates so much with the older foils it's hard to set an exact price to obtain a foil one; if we look at the previous secret lairs those versions of Mother of Runes are sitting at about 6-10 a piece.
Artist Series: Sidharth Chaturvedi
Concordant Crossroads - 46.87/N/A
Nomad Outpost - 1.06/5.74
Ghost Quarter - 1.12/16.90
Island - N/A
Non-foil: 49.05 foil: 69.51
Non-foil: D- foil: C
Essentially this lair is being carried by the fact that Concordant Crossroads only has 1 printing and has never had a foil printing. If you need one or would like to get a foil one knows your chance but outside of that its just some bulky cards with nice art.
Artist Series: Wayne Reynolds
Sram, Senior Edificer - .25/6.09
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell - .95/1.89
Depala, Pilot Exemplar - .23/1.65
Balthor the Defiled - 10.95/59.61
Non-foil: 12.38 Foil: 69.24
Non-foil - F Foil - C
This lair is also being carried by 1 card that has only 1 printing the rest is bulk.
Finally! Left-Handed Magic Cards
Sisay, Weatherlight Captain - .98/6.02
Empress Galina - 18.31/206.82
Geralf's Messenger - 9.89/34.48
Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh - .26/.41
Garruk, Caller of Beasts - 8.20/23.41
Non-foil: 37.64 foil; 271.14
Non-foil - C Foil: A
While Empress Galina is definitely the chase card out of this; it still has value in the other slots too outside of Roger - but even Roger is still highly playable.
Anyways, after doing all the math and putting this all together I appreciate the professor doing this and compiling it a video format. Also, which secret lairs if any are you planning to get?
azja on
Yuriko (Optimized) Primer
1 year ago
Hey @Spirits, sorry for taking so long to get back to you! You asked such detailed questions, so I wanted to make sure I had time to write out detailed answers :D
Karn's Temporal Sundering vs Capture of Jingzhou:
Like you said, just a budget consideration. Yuriko is my pet deck so I don’t use any proxies, but I highly encourage it for others! While the bounce effect of Karn's Temporal Sundering is nice, I’m thinking of replacing it with Time Warp or just cutting it altogether for Treasure Cruise.
Enablers:
Since I don’t have any combos, I’m all in on the Yuriko damage plan. So having an enabler at all times is much more crucial for me, which is why I play 15 of them. Comparing my list to others, it seems 15 is on the higher end, so you could probably get away with cutting a couple. You’re correct about Tormented Soul, it can’t be pitched to Force of Will, as well as the mana base being more blue-heavy. As for the flying enablers, they’re included for redundancy (since there aren’t 15 unblockable 1-drops). It’s pretty rare for every opponent to have a flying/reach blocker, and we don’t really care who we attack, so flying does a pretty good impression of unblockable. Plus, many of them have relevant abilities, especially Faerie Seer’s scry 2 and Wingcrafter which can give Yuriko flying. If you’re mainly trying to win with combo, I wouldn’t play any of the 2 mana enablers except Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive. But don’t underestimate Augury Owl in the “winning with big spells” shell!
I haven’t tried him out yet, so I’m also unsure whether he makes the cut. Normally I wouldn’t consider playing a planeswalker, since we’re not very good at blocking to keep them around for longer than one turn. But with Kaito, we’re guaranteed 2 activations since he phases out eot, so I think he’s worth testing out for sure.
Win-Cons:
I think the wincons you described are all totally viable. Most of the cEDH Yuriko lists win with Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation or Tainted Pact since it’s only 2 cards and 3-4 mana (and tough to interact with outside of counterspells). Doomsday is significantly weaker than fish-consul, but its also a reasonable win-con. It’s convenient that cards that would go in the doomsday pile such as Gitaxian Probe and Street Wraith are already good cards for the deck anyway. When I first built this deck, I didn’t include doomsday for power level considerations. Now, I doubt doomsday would be too powerful for my playgroup to handle, but I decided to leave it out since I prefer to win with Yuriko’s ability.
Scheming symmetry is pretty much my budget replacement for Imperial Seal until we get a reprint. It’s true that you can do some cute plays with Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion or Fallen Shinobi. But most of the time, I save it until someone is below 16 life, choose them to tutor with me, put Draco on top of my library, and eliminate them before they can use the card they grabbed.
I’m a big fan of Mutavault since it allows me to rebuild a turn earlier after a boardwipe, or just to have an extra ninja that usually goes unnoticed by your opponents. Unfortunately, colourless lands are really, really awkward in this deck, so I wouldn’t play more than 1 or 2 at the most.
Drowned Catacomb, etc.
Since I’m currently playing 10 basics, I usually don’t have any problems with Drowned Catacomb and Sunken Hollow entering tapped. As for Mystic Sanctuary, it definitely sucks when you draw it and have to play it as a tapped island. But, imo it makes up for it in the late game when you can grab it with a fetch land and put an expensive spell on top of your library in response to a Yuriko trigger. If you’re including Tainted Pact, or just playing less basics in general, I would definitely cut those lands for City of Brass or River of Tears, like you mentioned.
Colourless Mana
I touched on this a bit in the Mutavault discussion, but you definitely want to stay away from colourless lands as much as possible. Although Ancient Tomb and Gemstone Caverns are really powerful lands in a vacuum, the early mana they provide isn’t worth it imo. I definitely agree with you that Reliquary Tower is a trap. I wouldn’t play it in very many decks in general, especially not in Yuriko. As for Glacial Chasm and Maze of Ith, they aren’t played enough in my playgroup for me to need an answer for them. But if they did become more popular, my plan would likely be to cut Mutavault and include Strip Mine/Wasteland instead.
I hope everything I explained made sense and was helpful to ya! Don’t hesitate to ask me more questions!
Spirits on
Yuriko, Shadow of Fate EDH
1 year ago
Hey Virlym,
Thanks for all the great information, very much appreciated.
I've removed River of Tears and replaced with Tarnished Citadel. I prefer not to rely on an Island or Swamp for something like Drowned Catacomb (Not a T1 land) or Choked Estuary. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is out, likely helps opponents more than me anyway. Can't decide if Ancient Tomb any good here or if it's better than Tarnished Citadel, I think the T1 is more important than .
Wingcrafter T1, and then Commander Ninjitsu doesn't give it flying? T3 it's paired with Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow. It's unlikely it won't have a target to attack T2 though without flying, not 100% but pretty likely.
Tormented Soul totally makes sense with the number of cards that need to pitch blue cards, and with how many CMC1 unblockables there are.
Prosperous Thief feels ok with the treasure, but only creating one is borderline. Am I missing any other key ninjas? There are a couple with ninjitsu with CMC1 which isn't bad for the draw, but their own abilities not that exciting?
Scheming Symmetry in Fallen Shinobi as you suggested or even a Opposition Agent or Nashi, Moon Sage's Scion will deliver maximum value for after Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow punches for 12 damage.
I think Thassa's Oracle will be the main win-con, and Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow damage with control/turns will be the alt. Avoid diluting any more cards. If Thassa's Oracle is exiled, likely games over before could get to a second anyway, Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow is always there and can be taken advantage of.
Should Moon-Circuit Hacker be in here too for another drawing ninja? Or just try and tutor the best ninjas and try an win?
Kaito Shizuki feels wrong tempo / timing for the deck to me. I'll let others test him lol.
Scry 3 seems good, adding the Augury Owl to my maybeboard.
I'm thinking this is v1 for testing? Any glaring misses I should fill before spending a million bucks ehre lol.
Virlym on
Yuriko, Shadow of Fate EDH
1 year ago
Just to not clutter up azja's feed, I'll give my input to the questions you asked. I'm no azja, so I can't answer for them, this is just my educated guessing.
Capture of Jingzhou is rather expensive, and it's easier to just run something like Time Warp over it. But for Karn's Temporal Sundering, it domes for 1 more when it's a trigger off Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow, and it has a Void Snare attached to it, which could clear out some other problem like Platinum Angel (niche example, but gets the point across), or put a ninja back into your hand so you can ninjutsu it out on the extra turn.
Tormented Soul being just black is a huge drawback for what azja was going for in competitiveness, it also can't be pitched to Commandeer, Force of Will, nor Force of Negation.
Kaito Shizuki requires further testing. in most cases, it's 3 mana for a single unblockable ninja token and a filter the following turn. You'll hardly ever even want to get the emblem due to trying to win through Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow triggers utilizing small ninjas and not cheating out something big. It's more beneficial to have ninjutsu creatures in your hand so you can get them to hit an opponent utilizing an enabler rather than trying to find some way to deal combat damage with a rather lackluster attacking ninja.
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow enablers want to b as cheap as possible. There's a HUGE fall-off from having a 1 CMC enabler to having a 2 CMC enabler to where that extra mana, and delaying Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow from hitting someone turn 2 better be a big payoff. Faerie Seer and Spectral Sailor are both 1 CMC enablers, and flying is generally scarce enough early game to where it effectively says "unblockable". Wingcrafter is a way to grant Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow flying so she can activate her own ability fairly reliably, it also let's you cycle ninjas out by giving one flying, and using ninjutsu shenanigans to keep more expendable ninjas on the board. Example, you could have it paired with a Skullsnatcher, swing it in, ninjutsu it out for a Fallen Shinobi, then after damage (after the triggers and before combat is over) ninjutsu the Skullsnatcher back in so that the Fallen Shinobi can stay a little safer in your hand. Augury Owl Sage Owl being able to see 3/4 cards into your library helps set up a big Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow play, or can at least give u information to see if you'll get answers to threats or if you need to crack a fetch as you nothing coming up and need to refuel, etc. That extra digging and set-up is basically a Sensei's Divining Top activation, but on an enabler body.
There's no instant-win combo in the deck because azja doesnt like them. "But I don't really enjoy playing combo decks, so I've opted to not include the aforementioned Demonic Consultation & Thassa's Oracle combo.". Having said that, Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow is typically a really fast agro deck. It will have the general agro problems of puttering out if faced with a deck that has enough lifegain and board wipes. But that deck was also designed more in the cEDH realm, so if a game is going longer than 6 turns, the super control deck is probably going to win anyways. As for trying to throw in more alternate win-cons, you usually want to avoid that. If you need multiple cards for an alternate win-con and they cards otherwise could either be dead, or put you behind in your initial game plan, they are just a hinderance in cEDH. Every individual card needs to be doing something to push you further. You can't have dead combo pieces in hand when you have 5-turn games. Thassa's Oracle is more often than not a dead card in decklists like this. You need a deck build around what it wants you to do, otherwise it's just a 1/3 for 2 mana, and Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow really doesn't need that baggage.
Scheming Symmetry isn't really a "play and win" card, it's just another 1 CMC top deck manipulation card. It also works REALLY well if you have something like Fallen Shinobi in hand, waiting to hit the person you just let search their library.
"Also, would avoiding the enters tapped lands be better? E.G. Drowned Catacomb, Mystic Sanctuary, Sunken Hollow be far better as say City of Brass, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, River of Tears, Etc.?" River of Tears is a bad card to try and deal with when you're running on a really low curve. If you play it turn 1, it adds B, so you can't play your 1 CMC enablers aside from Gingerbrute. If you play an island turn 1, and River of Tears turn 2, you now have double blue on turn 3 with no black, and if you play a black mana land, you now have double black and only one blue. If you need the double blue and a black, you would need to tap it before playing a land, but doing something like that makes it so you can't use it for ninjutsu. It's just a hassle of a land and adds too much to keep track up when there's already a lot that's going on in an EDH game. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is basically just a swamp. City of Brass would generally be a good include though, assuming you're ok with the price tag and games aren't typically decided by 4 life. Drowned Catacomb will generally always come in untapped if you play right due to the amount of fetches. Mystic Sanctuary will generally come in untapped in a deck this heavily blue, and the upside of being able to recur an answer or even a big spell that Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow can trigger with makes the chance of it coming in tapped irrelevant. Sunken Hollow is the worst offender of the 3, but it still has the basic land typing, so it can be fetched. And that upside is generally enough to warrant including it.
Balaam__ on Balaam__
1 year ago
sleepygordie I took a closer look at your zombie token deck. In my experience, the more things a deck is trying to do the less effective it becomes, even if those things are similar or related. I went ahead and stripped out a number of cards and rebuilt it with budget in mind, first and foremost. This shouldn’t be any more expensive than what you already posted, and while it’s quite a bit different I urge you to consider using it as a template.
4 Wight 6 Swamp 4 Shamble Back 2 Rise from the Tides 4 Mana Leak 6 Island 3 Inquisition of Kozilek 4 Gravecrawler 4 Duress 4 Drowned Catacomb 3 Diregraf Colossus 4 Compelling Deterrence 4 Clearwater Pathway // Murkwater Pathway 4 Cemetery Reaper 4 Bone Shards
A brief description of what it intends to do:
•Lands
Since you’re budget conscious, the best lands (fetches and duals) are out. But there are still better options than what you had, and inexpensive too. Clearwater Pathway Flip is fantastic because it’s whatever you need at the time you play it, and you already had Drowned Catacomb so that’s still here. Regular basics are the only other lands you want.
•Creatures
Gravecrawler, Wight and Diregraf Colossus were already there so you know why you chose them. I added Cemetery Reaper as a great 3 drop lord that’s non-legendary (you can have multiples in play and they stack), and his ability can make more tokens and can target either player’s graveyard.
•Instants
Compelling Deterrence is great, use 4 copies. Mana Leak is efficient counter magic, especially early game when you’ll need it the most. is easier to cast than Counterspell’s .
•Sorceries
Duress and Inquisition of Kozilek strip your opponent’s hand. Bone Shards is super useful to eliminate a creature threat, and your tokens are easy sacrifices to pay that part of its cost. Shamble Back is cheap and effective token generation and helps recover lost life. Rise from the Tides is too mana intensive to use as anything other than a strong finisher. With all the instants and sorceries here that will end up in your graveyard, when you cast Rise from the Tides you should get a ton of tokens.
With the above list you’ll have early board presence (lots of 1 and 2 drops), plenty of discard and removal to slow down your opponent, and some strong finishers. Bear in mind this is just a quick list I threw together and is by no means optimized. Use it as a template, a building block to customize and make your own.
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