Mana Vault doesn't untap during your untap step.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay . If you do, untap Mana Vault.
At the beginning of your draw step, if Mana Vault is tapped, it deals 1 damage to you.
: Gain .
|Have (2)||, rockleemyhero|
|Want (11)||Cyas676 , Belphebe , SirRigorMortis , HoosCrazy , ShreddedByCrows , winterwind10 , Aldazar , richmondtzh , Skellyton5 , Jdreesman , Aaryanna|
Printings View all
|Ultimate Masters (UMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Ultimate Masters Promo (UMAP)||Mythic Rare|
|Masterpiece Series: Kaladesh Inventions (MPS)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Rare|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Fifth Edition (5ED)||Rare|
|Fourth Edition (4ED)||Rare|
|4th Edition Foreign Black Border (4EDFBB)||Rare|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Rare|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Rare|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Rare|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Rare|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Mana Vault occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.16%
UR (Izzet): 0.59%
WU (Azorius): 1.18%
WUB (Esper): 0.66%
UBR (Grixis): 0.71%
Mana Vault Discussion
4 days ago
XaiLo: Savannah is a pure budget decision-- I simply haven't got one. Survival of the Fittest, though, I just had my one copy in another deck, but that deck isn't presently together. I'm going to be fitting that in as soon as I can. Good call.
As far as tuning the deck more, reducing the ramp curve and adding cheaper interaction, I dunno. I want to make sure I can play it at a regular table without running everyone over. If I find the right meta, I might find room for Mana Crypt and Mana Vault.
4 days ago
A rebuttal to your arguments against Mana Crypt: it costs 0 mana. That means you don't have to play it T1. If you have a sweet 4 mana play that will have a large presence on the board (say, Teferi, Master of Time), just hold it in hand until T2. You don't pull aggression from other players until you would anyway (in this case, from Teferi, Master of Time) and you don't start losing coin flips early. As for Mana Vault, it lets me play a 5 drop T2, and Vault with any T1 ramp that can immediately tap for mana can give you a 6 drop T2. If Sol Ring + Mana Vault lets me win the game on T2, then that is pretty good ramp. Having to pay to untap doesn't matter at all when there are so many ways to untap it for free.
Also, once you start bringing in personal experience, arguments kind of lose all meaning. I play a lot of mono or dual coloured decks, and I run Maze of Ith in pretty much all of them (also a respectable amount of artifact and land wipes). Unless your creature has hexproof and pro my colours, it will never connect. Between board wipes and spot removal, you would be better off playing Llanowar Elves, since you can run so many effective copies of it (eg, Elvish Mystic, Birds of Paradise, etc).
Also also, one of your stated rules is "Creature cards needing to attack". Does a Sword not break that rule, since it requires a creature to both attack and connect? At least Sword of the Animist just needs the attack trigger.
My personal opinion is that the most impactful plays are 4-6 mana. Being able to reach 4 mana on T2 and 6 mana on T3 should be a qualifier for "Most Optimum Ramp". I would rename this list to "Useful Ramp Cards". I do think this is a useful list, but I don't think it is a list of the best ramp, which the title claims it is.
About your last point, could you share that research?
4 days ago
Epidilius, I would disagree that Mana Crypt and Mana Vault "should" be on every ramp list, but for different reasons. Mana Crypt, when played in a regular deck, only results in an opponent losing more life, both from the inherent lifeloss ability and the response from opponents. Mana Crypt and Necropotence are the two cards I think of immediately when it comes to this type of effect. So while Mana Crypt definitely fulfills the role of ramp, the fact that it more often pushes decks towards losing rather than winning (in regular Commander, as my lists aren't designed to be used for cEDH) makes it excluded from the list.
On the other hand, Mana Vault doesn't actually ramp, it's more akin to a ritual. The fact that it doesn't untap itself means it's essentially a Dark Ritual for decks without black.
Regarding creatures, artifact wipes and MLD are nowhere near as common as creature-destroying wipes. That likelihood is a huge factor! Sword of Feast and Famine is not something that dies to a board wipe, whereas One with Nature does when the enchanted creature dies. The difference is that Sword of Feast and Famine can equip to any creature, and if that creature dies, you don't lose access to the card giving you the ramp (you only lose access to the ramp itself if you don't have any haste enablers). In my experience, those factors makes Sword of Feast and Famine a much more reliable source of ramp than Llanowar Elves.
Ultimately, my point is that these are all the ramp cards I would possibly recommend to someone. The other cards might as well not even exist.
arcane_trouper, you make a good point about life loss per mana made, but the difference between Mana Crypt and Carnival of Souls is that your multiple opponents are definitely likely to focus on making sure you don't win when you play a Mana Crypt than if you played a Carnival of Souls. They usually do that by attacking you for more damage and/or using spot removal/counterspells on your cards more often. That's why I found that Mana Crypt led to more losses than wins, and ultimately why it didn't fit on this list. That said, Carnival of Souls also needs to go!
Since you asked about my math, here it is: If the game ends on turn 10.29 (number from a recent video from Command Zone, which is very close to the number I got from analyzing the games present on my YouTube channel, where three opponents played whatever Commander decks and cards they want), then getting a Mana Crypt out on turn 1 gives you 9.29 flips. Each flip makes you lose an average of 1.5 life, so 9.29 multiplied by 1.5 is 13.935, and that divided by 40 is about 34.8%. Doing the same math for 8.29 and 7.29 (playing it on turn two or turn three, respectively) gives you the other two percentages.
progresso, actually, if you watch the video in the disclaimer, you'll see the mathematical reason why your statement is false.
Also, this should be pretty clear by now, this list is made up of cards I recommend for a specific result informed primarily by a mathematical approach at calculating the best tactical decisions and secondarily by comparing the results of employing tactical decisions in line with those calculations to the results of employing traditional strategy. That leaves no room for community consensus to override that research.
4 days ago
Hey friend, just popping in at your request.
In order to make a strong cEDH deck you need to remember a few things when you are building the deck and evaluating a commander.
Is the commander cheap to cast? (also known as being "castable"). This means the commander needs to be a lower cmc, lower than 4 is generally preferred for these scenarios. the cheaper the commander the earlier you can cast it and win or accrue value.
How many colors is the commander (more colors = better card quality as you have more cards to choose from)?
Does your commander do something special? (can it get you a ton of cards, does it have any one-card combos, does it disrupt opponents, etc).
It is very important to remember that comp is all about speed and castability. When you look at comp decks the overall CMC of the deck is generally less than 2, in most cases, it will be much lower than 2. Your deck is sitting at 3.29, much much too high.
Most decks are trying to win between turns 2-4 with slower decks trying to win turns 5-7. This means you don't have much time to ramp up and you need cheaper cards to interact with your opponents and have powerful effects. Competitive is all about greed-ing for that low CMC. The cheaper the spell, the easier it is to cast, the easier it is to cast, the more often it will be useful.
For example, viable comp commanders offer something very valuable in the command zone, either card advantage, card selection, a mechanic that can cheat things into play, it is a combo enabler, it is the combo finisher, etc. Obviously, each card will be judged on a case by case basis where you evaluate what it has to bring to the table over something else that is similar to it.
Here, the commander is a combo piece that also allows you to deal incremental damage. In competitive environments, people use their life totals as resources since decks are trying to win way before any creatures could do enough damage to kill you. for this reason, most decks are not combat orientated, and if they are, it is a combo that leads to victory, not pure continual combat damage.
With that initial info out of the way, we can look at how to make the deck faster and more consistent.
In comp environments, there are the 4 powerful artifacts that are included in almost every. You need a reason not to include the cards, otherwise by default they will be included. These artifacts are: Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Mana Crypt, and Sol Ring. Lotus Petal and Mana Vault are often included as well but are not as powerful. You need these cheap accelerants to power your deck in the early stages.
Consistency is key. In order to have a viable comp deck, your deck needs to be consistently performing well. In order to accomplish this goal, you need to have a high density of tutors and ways to reach/set-up your combo (or prevent others from reaching theirs).
1 week ago
sceptikal, you’re going to use Kozilek’s dispel ability to counter any artifact destruction, and your going to use massive artifact-based ramp to get him and other big eldrazi out fast enough to smash face / annihilate before it becomes an issue. I run 29 lands in a totally savage Brago, King Eternal deck, but with Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith, Mox Opal, and every 2 CMC mana rock in Azorious colors, it goes off by turn 4 often. Mass artifact destruction isn’t a problem when you can counter it or win before it’s a threat. I’m glad my other suggestions were helpful. Good luck!
2 weeks ago
At this point, the name is a misnomer. Mana Crypt and Mana Vault should be near the top of any "best ramp" list, but they aren't included here. Quite frankly, the life loss doesn't really matter if you land a Mana Crypt turn 1 either, since you will either be far enough ahead that you are winning, or an opponent will destroy it.
Also, you have a rule of "no creatures" because of board wipes, which limits the credibility of this list. There a ton of artifact wipes and mass land destruction spells as well. And if you have this rule, why do you include cards that rely on creatures, like Sword of Feast and Famine? They are even harder to use than Llanowar Elves, since the elf doesn't have to attack (and connect!) to add mana.
I agree with arcane_trouper, this should be renamed or reworked to fit the name.
2 weeks ago
FunnyDuck Thanks much for the suggestions and the upvote! If I'm reading it right, you suggest the deck should shore up in these areas:
1) GY control, either through reanimation or exile.
2) Commander control, through sac effects.
3) Additional ramp.
Plus the recommendation of Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip, which I appreciate because she was my favorite card of Origins. I spent so much money on drafts trying to pull her, and I was so mad I just kept getting the (then $7) Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip...
ANYWAY. Lots of good points. I will say it's tough with an "engine" deck like this one to add additional utility without sacrificing consistency. It's just SO BAD if you have out the Megrim effects and then stop drawing gas. As much as possible I'm trying to make the utility and win-con effects overlap with other synergies, like Madness, or else stick it in the land slot, like Bojuka Bog.
For category 1), I definitely like Scavenger Grounds, and maybe: Elspeth's Nightmare, Phyrexian Scriptures, Nezumi Graverobber, Shred Memory (which can tutor for either a Your-Turn Discard or a Liliana's Caress) or Erebos's Intervention?
For 2), I'm not convinced that the deck can't run without Tinybones, since there are other ways to break parity in both the discard selection and in the extra Draw Engines. Tinybones is also really easy to recast through Commander Tax, so the real problem is being stolen. I'm thinking maybe just running a Homeward Path and Phyrexian Tower and maybe Endless Sands, which also works with Scavenger Grounds. If I'm running these colorless/non-Swamp lands I should probably throw in Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
I would really love to run that Liliana, but without adding more sacrifice effects, I don't think I can pull it off. That's definitely one way to build the deck, though.
Thanks again! I'll make some changes now and what I don't make room for now, I'll add to a recommendations section on card selections if you're facing GY decks, steal decks, etc.
2 weeks ago
Given that you are playtesting this deck against other cEDH decks, I am going to assumer you are also building a cEDH style deck. This is sort of hard to do on a budget and will cost a pretty penny. I only am wary because your deck is only ~$400 right now. I am not a cEDH player but I do understand enough to make these suggestions...
For a cEDH build you want low 30's in lands. For example, some you would want right now: Gaea's Cradle, City of Brass, Mana Confluence, the fetch lands, and the shock lands. Almost no land can enter tapped in competitive (take out the temples). The ramp would include some rocks but also mana dorks because they synergise well with the Cradle. Examples of ramp: Arbor Elf (really good for enchanted forests), Llanowar Elves/Elvish Mystic, Noble Hierarch/Birds of Paradise, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Carpet of Flowers (this works because in multiplayer one player almost always is in blue and it is also an enchantment!), Chrome Mox, and Mox Diamond.
Two Bant cEDH decks on tapped out that I would look at for examples are The Bant Hammer [cEDH] and Estrid Stax cEDH. The Rafiq deck is very similar to yours and you could probably use from cards from that list.
If you aren't planning on cEDH, ramp is much more forgiving since games last longer more often. In that case I like creatures like Wood Elves, Yavimaya Dryad, Viridian Emissary, and Sakura-Tribe Elder because land destruction isn't as common and lands usually survive board wipes.
I hope this is more helpful!