Look at the top five cards of your library. As many times as you choose, you may pay 1 life, put those cards on the bottom of your library in any order, then look at the top five cards of your library. Then shuffle your library and put the last cards you looked at this way on top of it in any order.
|Have (2)||metalmagic ,|
|Want (3)||sabrx , LordSelfish , thejordan0|
Printings View all
|Commander 2013 (C13)||Uncommon|
|Masters Edition (MED)||Common|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Lim-Dul's Vault occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.05%
UB (Dimir): 1.04%
WUB (Esper): 0.78%
BUG (Sultai): 0.59%
UBR (Grixis): 0.58%
Lim-Dul's Vault Discussion
3 weeks ago
I'm going to consider several changes to the deck. As for the creatures with inspired, I'm probably going to include Disciple of Deceit. The other three don't really fit any spot in my deck, so I'd leave them out.
Reagarding Thassa's Oracle, I will get my hands on one copy as soon as possible, in order to make up for an alternative win condition. I don't know if I shoud try to run also some recursion for creatures at this point, since I have some graveyard hate in the deck alraedy with Grafdigger's Cage, but I'll see.
I'm very surprised by Vizier of Tumbling Sands. It somehow slipped under my radar when Amonkhet was around. I really like the versatility it brings both through the cycle ability (which is an ability and not a spell, so it can be interacted only with a Stifle or similar), which can moreover be used at instant speed. The added bonus is the combo potential with Lotus Field (which I unfortunately traded away three months ago, screw me) and Pemmin's Aura/Freed from the Real. I'll definitely include it.
As multimedia said, I'll probably have to streamline the deck a bit more, removing janky combos in favor of consistency. It'll take some time, so I don't know when the update will come out.
I've tried the Naru Meha, Master Wizard + Ghostly Flicker shell that can interact with Phenax, God of Deception + Thousand-Year Elixir or with Altar of the Brood, or even to produce infinite mana for a Blue Sun's Zenith on an opponent to kill him or on me to combo out (even with Thassa's Oracle after the update). I however have a hard time in getting all the pieces, and many times I just found myself with one missing piece or no piece at all.
My main problem is that my playgroup doesn't like efficient tutors, so being able to keep a combo deck consistent is more difficult: for example, they may allow Lim-Dul's Vault, but not Scheming Symmetry (don't ask me why). Moreover, they don't like the presence of too many tutors, that's why I only run the vault - and I'll have to convince them to let me run Disciple of Deceit.
As a playgroup we have planned a meet up to talk about power levels and what is considered as taboo in the group. I'll have to convince them about tutors, but the social contract is something that gets hardly modified. Do you have any thoughts on how to improve or argument about it?
In the meantime, I'll try to use cards that can be both used as combo pieces and as value pieces, like the Oracle or the Vizier and to think of a streamlining of the deck.
3 weeks ago
You should try running Ponder and Preordain -- they belong in any blue deck, including this one. They may not look like much, but they're banned in Modern for a reason. In that vein, I usually don't recommend Brainstorm for decks not playing fetches, but I think it's fine here since your general can mill off the cards you put back.
Dorks. I notice you're not running any one-drop mana-dorks. You should run some. It's hard to beat the rate of ramp they provide, and late game you can Victimize or Dread Return some or do whatever you want with them. Seriously, they're absurd. Consider at least four of the following: Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves, Arbor Elf, Deathrite Shaman, Elves of Deep Shadow and/or Birds of Paradise.
Similar to dorks, Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth are good methods of ramping. It's worth noting that since they're not creatures they won't trigger your general, but if you're running Arbor Elf they may be worth including anyway. Carpet of Flowers is good, but it's rocketed up in price so IDK if it's worth it rn.
There're some pieces of permanent-based disruption you might find helpful. You're not running much in the way of artifacts with activated abilities, and if you choose to run dorks you can cut Golgari Signet. That would let you run things like Collector Ouphe or, if you really wanted, Null Rod. Narset, Parter of Veils is a great card, especially if you run Windfall (which I think you should even if you don't run Narset, Parter of Veils). Depending on your meta, Ashiok, Dream Render can be a powerhouse.
Since I've never played this specific build, IDK how long you spend with a full graveyard. If it's more than one or two turns in the course of an average game, consider Splendid Reclamation. If you can return four or five lands with it, that's a big swing your next turn.
Doom Whisperer seems like a fine creature to run.
Lim-Dul's Vault is a good instant speed tutor.
Right. That's all I got.
1 month ago
So I think you should run Preordain in addition to your Ponder. It's a similar effect and is a powerful t1 play. I wouldn't run Brainstorm until you run at least three more fetches, though they don't have to be Zendikar/Onslaught fetches to work; consider Terramorphic Expanse, Bad River or even Prismatic Vista.
I think you should run Toxic Deluge, though it can be a bit pricy. Have you considered running snow-covered lands and Dead of Winter? I'm a big fan, even though it gives you less control than Toxic Deluge.
In general, I do not like 3-mana mana-rocks at all -- 2-mana mana-rocks are common enough, and 3-mana mana-rocks feel like they're just a turn behind. In that vein, I think you should cut Darksteel Ingot and Dimir Locket for cards like Dimir Signet, Coldsteel Heart, Sky Diamond or Charcoal Diamond. These are especially good if you lead with a t1 Sol Ring or choose to run Ancient Tomb.
So, I think you should definitely look at running Eater of the Dead. It's a REALLY old card (1994), but it's actually kinda funny in Phenax, God of Deception. You can use its ability to exile a creature you've milled and untap him, then tap him using Phenax and repeat.
You could consider running Lantern of Insight or (if you got $$$) Field of Dreams. These can give you intel as to whether you want to mill an OP before they draw or on their end step, which in turn lets you choose their draws for them. (In modern/some legacy, this is called 'lantern control.')
One thing that I notice frequently going wrong with decks with generals who don't directly produce card-advantage is that they often simply run out of cards. I highly suggest bringing Fact or Fiction in from your maybeboard, and potentially running things like Chart a Course, Night's Whisper, Treasure Cruise, Necropotence, Dig Through Time, Chemister's Insight etc. to make up for this.
Right. That's all I got. Good luck.
1 month ago
Rather than delete comments that don't give you a congratulatory high five for effectively making a worse list than SolelySelesnya, can you actually respond or give justification for deck building choices? Deleting my comment then adding two tiny notes with barely any justification is cowardly.
- Plays well with other top deck tutors you already run like Vampiric Tutor Imperial Seal Mystical Tutor and Lim-Dul's Vault. Allows instant speed blowouts with counterspells or removal.
- It is a pile cracker for Doomsday. I know you think you will always have Yuriko on the field to crack the pile, but you definitely won't, or combat won't always be an option. Running Doomsday and choosing not to run Sensei's Top makes me seriously question your ability to think your way out of a cardboard box.
- Maneuver Yuriko triggers for maximum effectiveness and pressure life totals in a meaningful way
- Yes, while you're goldfishing alone, Top is going to perform slower than simply running another 1 drop ninjutsu enabler. However, magic is not played in a vacuum. Consider how this deck fares against other strategies. If an opponent resolves a Blood Moon, this deck, with hardly any artifact based mana, and running a Tainted Pact land base, is pretty boned. Consider how this deck fares when an opponent runs a critical mass of Pyroclasm effects. Once again, if your combat step is shut off or you aren't able to hit players or an opponent is able to repeatedly resolve board wipes, this deck is almost entirely shut off. Top helps in mana screw situations against Moon effects by digging you to your basics or removal faster even with red mana, and helps against big sweeper decks by digging you faster and more meaningfully towards either Doomsday or towards finding the A + B consult combo pieces.
As far as Abjure
- Unconditional counterspell with a very minimal downside
- Commander ninjutsu for 2 mana means Yuriko is always an option for the sac
- The argument of "Oh lowers devotion for Oracle" is beyond stupid. Casting Oracle outside of winning is beyond foolish. Even with ninjutsu to return to hand, you're giving valuable information to opponents while also putting Oracle in a zone it can be easily exiled from. You also require Oracle to attack and be unblocked to ninjutsu it, which is not guaranteed at all. After you casually cast your Oracle for card advantage and return it, your opponents are going to be aware you're halfway to comboing and hold up interaction and mana to deal with you. It is 100% a scrub move.
- Using the clunky and -1 card advantage Misdirection over Abjure is also foolish. The CMC isn't high enough to significantly speed up the Yuriko burn, and the downside is that Misdirection is 100% useless against Flash or Demonic Consultation or Tainted Pact, you know, the 3 most important spells in the meta currently. Writing your pamphlet about why you can't ignore the arrival of Fish in EDH and then making garbage choices like slotting Misdirection over Abjure is embarrassing. While both are worth an include, if you must choose between the two there is a very obvious choice for the current meta.
You don't run Dark Confidant or other repeat card advantage engines. The majority of tutors in this deck are -1 card advantage because they go for topdeck. If your commander is shut down or opponents are able to shut off combat or opponents are able to with even close to somewhat regularity, this deck does nothing and durdles out due to lack of drawing power. Also running Doomsday without Top is just a joke man, you don't even have other good DD enablers like Lion's Eye Diamond or Yawgmoth's Will to help you, you're once again 100% dependent on commander triggers resolving after landing an extremely risky card with huge drawbacks. This deck easily loses 9/10 games in a pod against a Xantcha deck or any deck that can meaningfully use Ensnaring Bridge or even weird garbage tier 3 decks like Daretti that runs many Pyroclasm effects. I do like some developments this deck has made in regards to Yuriko, but ignoring obvious and easy choices is unfortunate. Deleting a comment that critiques your deck because you have a fragile ego is sad, and makes me have to write these multiple paragraphs rebuking you for being a child. Don't tag your pile of 99 as competitive if you're only posting it for the praise of scrubs and not for legitimate feedback.
Come on mate, this deck basically folds to a resolved Nevermore. Both the cards I suggested shore up weaknesses against deck archetypes or cards that blow this deck out of the water. Adding layered consult lines does nothing when you run practically 0 draw pieces outside of your commander. Edric, Spymaster of Trest is basically the exact same deck and people have been aware of the evasive creature spam strategy for a couple years now. Putting all your eggs in a basket that is easily bitched out means this is a poorly built deck, and easy to slot against.
1 month ago
- I really love your view of tutors changing the game from being something that is high variance to something that forces players to make a high amount of choices. Seeing the tutor mechanic through that lens makes me value it a whole lot more. Thanks.
- Great point about "next best set". I think that applies to anything on the banlist. People use Flash because it's legal. If flash gets banned, they'll go to the "next best set" of wincons.
- Great point about Path to Exile & Lim-Dul's Vault. I guess a definitive ban list would be necessary. :(
- I agree that card draw would become the new tutor... but card draw isn't nearly as consistent or efficient as tutors. I think replacing tutors with card draw would create a gap in consistency that would allow for a wider range of strategies to be viable.
- Your argument of tutors forcing ppl to make better deckbuilding choices doesn't hold up for me. With that logic, unbanning everything on the entire banlist would "force people to make better deckbuilding choices".
- We can't ban two card combos, because there will always be a "next best" option.
- Two card combos aren't the problem. The problem is the speed and consistency at which they can be assembled, which forces the format into a stale place where decks aren't built with synergies, there is little variance in viable strategies, and nonblue decks aren't viable. I think if there is less variance in the format, people will get bored of it quicker and the format will shrink instead of grow.
- Card draw and scry effects will not do "just as good" as tutors. Tutors are way more consistent & efficient than card draw.
1 month ago
I am firmly of the opinion that this is a terrible idea. And there are a few reasons why:
If you only ban some tutors, all that's going to happen is that people are going to move to the "next best set".Can't run Demonic Tutor? Just run Grim Tutor. Can't run Grim Tutor, just run Diabolic Tutor or Dark Petition. If you start banning some of the tutors, people will just roll over to the next available option.
If you're going to ban all tutors, then you can't do it by rules text. Ban lists are supposed to be black and white, not open to interpretation. So just banning all cards that contain "search" and "library" in the rules text would also mean that (as well as banning all land ramp), you would be banning cards like Path to Exile and Assassin's Trophy. You also have cards like Lim-Dul's Vault. It's a tutor, is it banned? You MUST have an exhaustive banlist, thats why 99.99% of games/formats within said games have exhaustive lists.
And if you're going to ban all tutors, then draw card becomes the new tutor. All of a sudden, every deck contains blue because they want every cantrip/draw effect available because nobody wants to topdeck. And now since every deck contains blue, you'll see a lot more of a rise in counterspells because more decks are running blue.
On top of that, without tutors, you've made every commander game basically double in length. I don't know about you, but I personally have a busy life and only get to play magic once/twice a fortnight (if that). And I really don't want to spend the whole night playing 1 game of commander where I previously would have gotten 2-3 games in.
Even if aggro suffers somewhat under tutors, getting rid of them would kill the combo archetype. And you would just see combo decks crammed to the brim with redundant pieces/lots of card draw/counterspells to try and counteract the loss of tutors. But it would generally make them unplayable. Not to mention that voltron would suffer as well - voltron needs tutors to assemble its lethality, otherwise it just folds to battlecruiser style decks.
Oh and the other thing - not everybody hates tutors. I for one enjoy having access to them in my deck. I like the idea of being able to make a 100 card singleton deck more consistent. That's why you see poeple running functional reprints of cards and lots of similar effects. While there is a part of the communtity that just wants to play top deck big smashy cards, you'd find that that isn't the majority of players (but that people who are content with the format as it is are generally just less vocal).
If your playgroup doesn't want to play with tutors, that's great for you. If your playgroup wants to enforce any other house rules, again, I'm happy that you're all in agreement. But the long and short of it is; a format is healthiest with a small a banlist as possible. And on top of that, sweeping decicisions like this which make group A happy generally royally screw over group B. The RC has already indicated that if poeple don't like something, the easiset solution is to house rule. But don't try to enforce that crap on the rest of us. And if people just want to play a card game with big, smashy creatures, then go play Yugioh or something.
2 months ago
Thanks for your opinion & honest Work on this Deck
Lands & Manabase
I think the Manabase should be not the Problem here
I dont play any of these expensive Lands in any of my Commander Decks and i didn't see any disadvantage in my Playgroups
The Lands i use here are all in stock and so i don't have to buy them
So if i will get my Hands on a better Land, i can exchange them with one in any of my Decks.
Anyway i see the Advantage on your choice of Lands and i will put them on the Upgrade List for this Deck with one exception
This one is on his way into the Deck
Never mind Cavern of Souls will be on the Upgrade list too but i have other Decks where i have to put this 60 Bucks in first ;-)
Baleful Strix + Arcane Adaptation + Wingcrafter
I didn't think about any other Creature's because i wanted to make it a Tribal Ninja CMDR
The only one i had in mind was Changeling Outcast
So for Arcane Adaptation , Baleful Strix & Wingcrafter i will cut Price of Knowledge , Downsize & Drowned Secrets
I dont consider anymore :-)
Temporal Trespass , Dig Through Time & Treasure Cruise are in of course
Now i have to learn to fuck up my grave but i think i can handle this :-D
So Folio of Fancies , Spellbook are out and now i'm in struggle
I think that The Magic Mirror + Venser's Journal is a "too nice" Combo to Cut and on the other hand they have high CMC
Cutting Spellbook was also hard because Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow and all the others Ninja's "hopfully" gives you so much Cards
So i don't want to cut more "No Maximum Handsize" Cards because i think they're essential
The last card to cut you're offering is Erratic Portal so this one is Out
But this one was in for Protecting some of the "Nasty Ninja's" against hitting the grave from Battletricks
Hopefully the Entomb + Filth or Entomb + Wonder combo and / or Crystal Shard , Walker of Secret Ways will do their job
So Vampiric Tutor is a well known Card but i think I've got enough Top Deck Manipulation and the "Cards to cut" are Rare. Same is true for Insidious Dreams wich i didn't know before
I had Lim-Dul's Vault on mind when i builded this Deck and maybe this is a game changing "Top Deck Manipulation" because of the mass of Cards u can look at
So i will clear the Maybeboard and all three are in there and i f i find a card to cut Lim-Dul's Vault will be the one who gets in 1st
Chain of Vapor
So here i need a quick 101 on this Card
"At this Moment i'm too stupid to understand how this card work and why it is so good in a Yuriko Deck" So i'm not too stupid to understand how this card works @all-> i'm too stupid why this one should be good and don't any have clue on this combo
So please give me the "Breakthrough"
Shitty English & Bad Grammar
Sorry for my very Basic English Grammar and this shitty English
I think in my Mothers Language much of this Desaster would sound very differnt :-D
And here are some dots and commas if u need them -> ........,,,,,,,, :-D
Update of the Deck will be done soon
2 months ago
For cEDH level, I'd recommend putting in:
Mystic Remora for additional card draw
Vampiric Tutor for your instant generic tutor and Imperial Seal if you can afford it. Lim-Dul's Vault is also a good tutor/pile maker and Merchant Scroll can search Dramatic Reversal and any counterspell/blue removal spell.
With the banning of Paradox Engine , Despark does not have many relevant targets. In fact, I'd say it's only niche to reanimator targets or any other big creatures that get cheated out, which is VERY dependent on your meta.
Arcane Denial is something I'd only find not bad if it's literally used to protect your win con on the turn that you're going to win; otherwise, you just netted your opponent over you. This one's up to you but I'd rather not play it.