Forsaken Sanctuary enters the battlefield tapped.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
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Forsaken Sanctuary Discussion
5 months ago
Hey, good start on a budget, nice Vampiric Tutor :)
Four budget staples to consider adding:
5 months ago
Ok, here's a little bit of analysis to consider. Break it up into some comments to read. These are opinions based on experience, playing and watching lots of commander content over the years, doesn't account for your specific playstyle or how you have fun playing commander which are certainly as important of decisions, as is card selection.
You are very low in the mana curve, 11 1-drop, 21 2-drop, 15 3-drop, 16 4-drop, and Orzhov () has lots of pips, but mana ramp is critical to getting your plan onboard as quickly as others, having mana available to advance board state/gain advantage and have interaction, and landing your larger threats sooner.
Sol Ring (CMC1 for 2 = +1 mana) is a must include.
Orzhov Signet I personally don't like (CMC3 for 1 = -2 mana) but also you're in which doesn't ramp as it's core strength.
Arcane Signet (CMC2 for 1 = -1 mana) is a must include, there are only a few archetypes I wouldn't play this in and usually only .
Talisman of Hierarchy (CMC2 for 1 = -1 mana) is a must include in .
I would start with that at least, some fringe ones I like are: Burnished Hart (creature/recursion), Commander's Sphere (draw), Mycosynth Wellspring (to hand, fringe), Pristine Talisman (lifegain, fringe), Solemn Simulacrum (ramp+draw!), The Birth of Meletis (doesn't help with , but ramp, 0/4 blocker, lifegain? it has it all!), Wayfarer's Bauble (ramp).
On a premise of battlecruiser/low/mid power 3-6 I DO NOT recommend these, but there are stronger options out there beyond 6: Phyrexian Altar (combo builds), Mana Vault , Mana Crypt , Chrome Mox , Smothering Tithe , Land Tax (Might not be bad in this build)
Honestly on a Avg. CMC 2.99 mana curve, I would likely have 10-12 ramp.
Some potential cuts for these:
Gorgon's Head you've got plenty of deathtouch already, it's not pairing with a Viridian Longbow strategy or anything, it's redundant, but also the worst. Easy cut. (We can get to Open the Armory / Steelshaper's Gift later)
Pierce Strider CMC4 for a 3/3 is just plain bad, the idea is play, do 3 damage, block/sac it, noone going to pay 3 to prevent it? but they will because it's going to do 3 anyway on return, and if your using recursion on this, your making the wrong play as it has no value engine on it. Easy cut.
Creeping Chill for CMC4 sorcery is not great, you're not playing a mill strategy so you're not really casting it for free often. It's not a strong play, we can find better ones, like ramping into Athreos, God of Passage sooner.
Font of Return for CMC6? Yikes. (CMC2+CMC4 for 3 creatures to hand is not great, we can get them on the battlefield for that high a CMC).
Angelic Gift hmm we have flyers, with deathtouch, it replaces itself (draw a card) but unless we flickering it ( Ephemerate or Brago, King Enternal something like that, it sets up easy 2-for-1 if an opponent has instand speed removal.
Topic: Lands! (Umm!)
Average Distribution Build: 38 lands
Average Budget Build: 36 lands
Average Expensive Build: 37 lands
Average Aristocrats Build: 35 lands
Average Reanimator Build: 31 lands (closer)
Your Build: 30 lands (Umm!)
No way you can run 30 lands, and 0 ramp in this deck. I wouldn't shuffle this deck with less than 33 lands, probably 34-36 if I'm playing enters tapped/utility lands. I might (maybe not) go to 33 lands with 9+ ramp spells, but even then, 34 would feel better.
Do you have a combo with Piranha Marsh like Worldgorger Dragon does, if not, just delaying yourself for little value (1 damage). Kabira Crossroads in this same bucket, it's just not work the tapped mana.
Let's be honest, lands SUCK, they are too expensive! Here is a list of lands you should look at:
Lands I don't suggest: Evolving Wilds / Terramorphic Expanse (<$1 fixed color), Scoured Barrens (<$1 fixed color), Isolated Chapel ($6, Not bad but not T1 land), Myriad Landscape (<$1, slow), Temple of Silence (<$1, scry/slow).
Have to head out, I'll review more topics and recs later, but here are some other cards can come out for mana. Gorgon Flail it's on theme and not bad, but let's get that Basilisk Collar or Quietus Spike instead. Soul Stair Expedition I would rather Animate Dead or Reanimate to the battlefield right away, not have to wait for lands (it still sacrifices itself). Not Forgotten we have better removal. Have to head out now! More later to read. :) If it's too much info, let me know!
9 months ago
Hey, nice first build of Teysa.
Reveillark + Karmic Guide + Teysa is a combo to exile all your opponents creatures because Teysa can sac herself and Lark/Guide are white creatures who can reanimate each other and Teysa. Lark + Guide + sac outlet is a combo to reanimate all the 2 or less power creatures in your graveyard which an aristocrat can be the win condition or Ayara or Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Buried Alive is very good at setting up Lark + Guide getting an aristocrat into your graveyard.
Hour is an important card and you're playing many other enchantments which makes Hall of Heliod's Generosity a helpful recursion effect. You're playing many utility lands which gives Expedition Map many choices thus I think it's worth adding. When your Commander is able to create 1/1 tokens it makes Skullclamp excellent repeatable draw.
Cards to consider cutting:
- Forsaken Sanctuary
- Apocalypse Demon
- Epicure of Blood
- Butcher of Malakir
- Price of Fame
- Norn's Annex
- Ancient Craving
Good luck with your deck.
10 months ago
I made some changes to the mana base too that I haven't documented. I took out Exotic Orchard and Forsaken Sanctuary for Vault of Champions and Spectator Seating which complete my "bond land" collection for this deck, I have Luxury Suite already. those 2 come out in Commander legends, so I just added them now. I won't be making these changes until that set comes out in about 2½ weeks time anyway.
1 year ago
Hey, nice budget version of Teysa with Deathmantle and Altar.
Cards to consider adding:
- Scheming Symmetry: great causal tutor, you get something and an opponent of your choice does too.
- Open the Armory: tutor for Skullclamp or Nim Deathmantle, two important cards to have more access too.
- Phyrexian Reclamation: Mystery Booster Set version, repeatable creature recursion.
- Viscera Seer: Core Set 2011 version, one drop sac outlet and scying is helpful.
- Doomed Traveler: one drop who creates a flying token.
- Mirror Entity: Mystery Booster Set version, pump Teysa and tokens. With a lot of tokens and mana this can be a win condition especially with flying tokens.
- Skirsdag High Priest: creates 5/5 Demon tokens and morbid can be triggered on any players turn if any creature died that turn. It's good in multiplayer and with tokens with vigilance.
- Fetid Heath: Double Masters version.
- Silent Clearing
- Shambling Vent
Any game when you have Skullclamp on the battlefield is going to be a better game than if you don't. Adding a few budget tutors that can get Clamp or one of your combo artifacts can be helpful.
Cards to consider cutting:
- 1x Plains
- 1x Swamp
- Temple of the False God: it can't make mana until turn five or after.
- Forsaken Sanctuary
- Orzhov Guildgate
- Final Payment
- Burnished Hart: too slow for ramp and doesn't trigger Teysa when it sacs itself.
- Butcher of Malakir: you have Pact and Dictate, don't also need this seven drop.
- Doomed Dissenter: Traveler is an upgrade because he creates a 1/1 flying token when he dies.
- Vindictive Vampire: the other aristocrats are better.
Good luck with your deck.
1 year ago
Hello fellow Kaalia enthusiast! Inserts obligatory link to my own deck: Still Better than Dan Brown.... Right, with that out of the way...firstly, I notice that while you call this a reanimator deck and have plenty of ways to cheat things out of the graveyard, you're missing things to stack it with. Cards like Entomb and Buried Alive would let you sculpt your graveyard into the perfect stockpile of threats. If you didn't already have loads I would recommend another actual wrath over Terminus considering you have more ways to get creatures back out of the graveyard than your library, but with that being the case you might be better off with either more unconditional removal (Vindicate/Anguished Unmaking) or even Armageddon if you don't mind having no friends. Aurelia's Fury and Boros Charm are great modal spells too! Honestly can't recommend Reconnaissance highly enough but Dust Corona and Phyrexian Reclamation do work for me. As for creatures, I wouldn't bother with Bloodgift Demon (take Rune-Scarred Demon for loops with Reya and a sac outlet such as Razaketh, the Foulblooded); Bogardan Hellkite (you'll probably do more overall with Warstorm Surge or the new Terror of the Peaks); Indulgent Tormentor (your opponents won't ever hesitate to pay the cost and the body is underwhelming for a demon); Vampire Nighthawk (good card but this deck can do better, for similar cost a Magus of the Moat or Grand Abolisher can make you very hard to assail). I'd suggest considering Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Doom Whisperer and Rakdos, Lord of Riots as other strong picks for potential upgrades. Finally you've got a decent mana base, but I'm a little surprised to see no fetches/utility lands like Volrath's Stronghold considering you have actual legacy duals. How can you be running a Scrubland but be unable to upgrade your Forsaken Sanctuary to a Godless Shrine and still be playing with Temple of the False God? This last one is one of the worst lands out there considering it can easily be a dead draw and doesn't even give you colour - you're running plenty of basics so even an Evolving Wilds would be better in almost every case! Anyways hope that's given you some ideas.
1 year ago
Alright, so i have some spare time currently and will try to give you some more advice.
Dead Man's Chest - Funny card, but not really on theme with your deck as far as i can see
Path of Bravery - Does to little imo, but i have never seen it in play, so it may overperform
Skymarcher Aspirant - Even if you have ascent, its only a 2/1 flyer for one mana
Paladin of Atonement - Same reasoning as for Path of Bravery
Bloodcrazed Paladin - The fact that it does not have trample makes it a lot worse than one might think
Queen's Commission - Not a bad card, but one of the weaker ones imo
I think you are running too few sacrifice outlets, especially since you are a vampire tribal and need creatures to die for your commander. You already have Yahenni, Undying Partisan, but there are also Viscera Seer, Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, Altar of Dementia, Blood Bairn, Anowon, the Ruin Sage, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Indulgent Aristocrat, Voldaren Pariah Flip and Bloodthrone Vampire (No particular oder, but free sac outlets like Viscera Seer are great!)
I really like your deck idea and think that you already are on a great way. If i were you i would abondon the life gain theme and focus more on being an aristocrat deck since your commander heavily suggest you to do so (and also because it is really powerful), but i guess lifegain is more flavourfull with Vampires :)
Good luck with your deck!
1 year ago
Hey Hercules23, thanks for the upvote.
I'm not a fan of the Edgar version you're asking for my feedback on. The manabase is an afterthought; it's really bad. It's not even upgraded from the precon since there's still 19 lands that will ETB tapped. Dual lands like Forsaken Sanctuary, Guildgates, Life lands are lackluster nonplayable lands; that's why they're in precons.
3.4 avg. CMC is too high, even for midrange. The Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond combo is not needed especially since that version doesn't have tutors that can get enchantments. Exquisite is not worth $46; better in that version to use the $46 to upgrade the manabase with lots of playable lands that can be used in many other decks you make. Even if I had an unlimited budget I still wouldn't play Exquisite.
Some expensive card upgrades you could make for this version:
- Phyrexian Altar > Chromatic Lantern
- Oathsworn Vampire > Olivia's Bloodsworn
- Bontu's Monument > Orzhov Signet
- Demonic Tutor > Diabolic Tutor
- Diabolic Intent > Wishclaw Talisman
- Enlightened Tutor > Open the Armory
- Blood Crypt > 1x Swamp
- Sacred Foundry > 1x Plains
- Bloodstained Mire > 1x Swamp
- Polluted Delta > 1x Plains
- City of Brass > Orzhov Basilica
- Twilight Prophet > Asylum Visitor
- Smothering Tithe > Radiant Destiny
- Reconnaissance > Dolemn Gate
- Boros Charm > Rootborn Defenses
- Patriarch's Bidding > Living Death
The first upgrade to make is adding an infinite combo. Gives you a way to win a game without having to attack with Vamps. If you want to include a expensive price combo with Vampires than add Phyrexian Altar + Oathsworn Vampire + Bontu's Monument. These are all lower mana cost cards that have other uses and the combo uses a Vampire as the enabler. When assembled is an infinite combo with Monument as the win condition from infinite casts/sacs of Oathsworn. The entire combo costs $38. Altar is worth $35 because it can go in many different decks you make, no matter the colors and it's one of the best sac outlets in Commander.
Better tutors is a second upgrade because these can find the cards of the combo or most any other card. After that would be land upgrades; cutting basic lands for more dual lands. Adding the two other Shock lands and two of the less expensive price Fetch lands that can search for a Shock land (a turn one black source). Twilight Prophet is a Vamp upgrade and Smothering Tithe is a ramp/color fixing upgrade.