|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||Mythic Rare|
|Masterpiece Series: Amonkhet Invocations (AKHMPS)||None|
|From the Vault: Annihilation (V14)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Rare|
|Masters Edition IV (ME4)||Rare|
|Masters Edition (MED)||Rare|
|Starter 1999 (S99)||Rare|
|Classic Sixth Edition (6ED)||Rare|
|Portal Second Age (P02)||Rare|
|Fifth Edition (5ED)||Rare|
|Fourth Edition (4ED)||Rare|
|4th Edition Foreign Black Border (4EDFBB)||Rare|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Rare|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Rare|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Rare|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Rare|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Destroy all lands.
|Have (4)||Forkbeard , , metalmagic , rockleemyhero|
|Want (4)||TanmanG , DemonicBerserker , joshvorthos , Treebeard_1|
1 week ago
The most important question for building any deck is the environment its going to play in. If you have a competitive deck, you almost always need a discrete infinite combo to finish out games. Especially in a format like EDH, where players gain life, pillowfort up, and generally stall out games, having a guaranteed A + B combo to win makes a huge difference. The combo you want will depend on your colors and commander, but once you know a handful of them you can simply plug and play.
Mana is especially important, as people have touched on. I like to run my decks around 33 mana, never more than 36 in fatty casual decks. I definitely recommend running extra cards to give you more mana, one of the easiest ways to improve the efficiency of your deck. Somewhere 8-11 rocks is usually excellent, and you can cut it smaller if you run mana producing creatures. Regardless of whether you choose creatures, artifacts, or enchantments to help ramp, I recommend at least one set. In EDH it is common for players to run wipe cards that will wipe out entire mana bases, such as Armageddon against lands, Wrath of God against creatures, and Shatterstorm against artifacts. Not having your entire mana base get destroyed by one of these is crucial.
Next, every deck needs removal and every deck needs draw or tutors. Removal is interaction for your opponents who are also trying to achieve their own game plan. Draw and tutor give you access to more resources, so there's a higher chance you get the resources you need at the correct time. Learn the cheap and efficient staples for each color in these regards, you will see them in deck after deck. You want to slot low cost spells, a strong rule of thumb is if it costs more than 3 mana, it better be able to handle two or more things.
As others have also mentioned, pare down your deck to focus in on your big themes. One way I like to do this when I'm building paper is to separate my potential cards into different piles based upon what they do. For example, if I have 120 cards I want to put into a Nekusar, the Mindrazer deck. I'm going to make piles for mana rocks, cards that make everyone draw, removal and wipes, creatures for value, etc. I can then see that my pile of sweet equipment for Nekusar to attack with only includes 3 parts, and it makes it easier to cut them where I would have otherwise kept them in. Piling them by effect helps give that distance.
My last piece of advice is to consider the way the format is set up. You run a 99 card deck of singletons, and you have a single card that you always have access to. Your commander is your bread and butter, and while its possible to build great decks that work independently of the commander, you shouldn't ignore the consistency of having 100% access to your commander. What do I mean by this? You need to choose the cards that go into the 99 based on how they perform with the commander before you add them based on how they perform with each other. Yeah casting Scheming Symmetry after ramming Aven Mindcensor is a pretty sweet play, but its going to be rare situations where you happen to draw both of them at the same time from a 99 card deck. Run cards that are strong in the slots at all times, not just when you get the Christmasland 1 2 or 3 cards in your deck that make it go. Focus your cards to work in tandem with the commander, and after you gain more experience in the format then consider how you can layer combos that work without your commander.
1 week ago
Alright, lets look at Loyal Retainers in another way.
You're running 7 legendary creatures outside of your commanders (which we will assume you WONT send to GY), so there are only 7 creatures that Loyal Retainers can return. Assuming a 99 card deck, 7 in starting hand, and 2 specific cards to see (retainers + legend), you've got a 7% chance to get Retainers, and a 41% chance to have one of your legends in your opener. After 5 draws, you're only at a 60% chance to hit a legend.
Now lets compare to Life . Same chance to see the card, 7%, but it works with 29 creatures instead of 7. Geometric calculator is telling me 91% chance to see a creature in your opener that works with Life . After 5 draws, 98.8% that you'll have a critter.
Obviously Retainers does have some benefit. It can be used to make an infinite etb/ltb loop for winning. How valuable is that to your deck though? Loyal Retainers can only be used BEFORE combat on your turn, and Tymna gives you cards AFTER combat. Your main source of card advantage is going to cause you to have to wait a rotation after finding all the pieces to your combo. This is a massive downside. You can already assemble infinite loops with Saffi + Titan, or Saffi + Karmic.
Lets imagine another scenario. You have the Saffi on the board with Retainers, but you have Sun Titan/Karmic Guide in the graveyard. Loyal Retainers can't grab that half of your combo back for you.
- Sacrifice Saffi Eriksdotter targeting Karmic Guide
- Sacrifice Karmic Guide . It returns to battlefield, we put ETB trigger on stack targeting Reveillark
- After Reveillark returns to battlefield, we sacrifice Karmic guide. We now have both Saffi + Guide in GY
- Reveillark is sacrificed, we will return both Saffi AND Karmic.
- We now pull creature 1 we want from GY with Karmic
- Sacrifice Saffi, targeting Karmic. Sacrifice Karmic, it returns from Saffi effect, giving us Reveillark again. Sac Karmic so its in GY, then sac Reveillark to give us Karmic + Saffi. Karmic entering gives us creature 2 from our GY. Rinse and repeat until you pull entire GY and combo finish.
You're running Kiki and splinter twin but you don't have any creature payloads to win. If you want to value reuse/copy creatures with an ETB, there are more cost efficient ways of doing it. I recommend you either cut these or put in Village Bell-Ringer or Combat Celebrant to have a Kiki payload. Overall though, I would just cut this combo.
You're running Yisan and Birthing Pod but you aren't running the cards to make them go. You need effects that untap them based off creature ETBs or actives, which are slot intensive. Yisan is dope, but if you aren't running the cards to support it you're running a slow tutor. Once again, I'd cut these if you aren't going to build around.
You are trying to fit too many combos in. Pick 1 or two that overlap in card usage and cut the others. Its better to do two things extremely well than it is to do 5 things mediocre. You should run reanimation loops + protean hulk + sac outlets, OR you should run kiki combo + pod/yisan lines. The hulk/animation loops both require sac outlets to be present on your field, while kiki/pod lines require untap effects. This will let you reuse your combo cards in multiple spots which will help reduce dead draws. Nothing feels worse than when you're holding 3 different pieces to three different combos that have very little utility outside combo lines. This is also why you're struggling to find space for more stax and ramp pieces.
You are also running a pretty high amount of beater cards. You should pare them down and run only the most efficient beater cards with high utility. Cathars' Crusade is a nice card but it does nothing on its own and buckles from Wrath effects. Compare to Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite which gives a buff but can also beat even if its your only creature. It also hurts your enemies board presence greatly. Bitterblossom is a fantastic card but you aren't getting as much value out of it because you aren't running enough pieces to slow down the game. Keep it but consider that a 1/1 flyer doesn't do much if your opponent is able to drop their giant dragon commander, you have to slow the game! Champion of Lambholt will provide you with free swings, but if you just lock the game out instead you don't need the evasion and this card doesn't beat that well. Custodi Soulcaller is a meme card, it requires either haste or an untap step (so its slow), you have to swing to use it, and its limited in what it can grab, and it gets worse the fewer players there are.
Price of Glory is a wonderful hate card, but unfortunately far less effective than you think. Compare to Grand Abolisher . Abolisher can beat down, which is your game plan. Abolisher 100% protects your combo window. Price of Glory doesn't stop the counterspell that stops your combo, it just exacts a massive price for your opponent casting it. However, when faced with the option of losing the game or losing two lands, every single opponent is going to choose the two lands. Strong card but you don't need to run it.
Zombie Infestation is a nice discard outlet, and great when you're ahead and have locked the board. Just like Bitterblossom though, you have to slow the game or this card will be outclassed by the casual stompy 6 drops that are allowed to hit the table. Stax up or cut out.
Cryptolith Rite is strong when you have a mana sink or tons of critters. Tymna will keep you stocked up on cards to dump with, while Tana gives you the critters. If you can afford it, Carpet of Flowers will outperform this card though. Keep it around if you don't have access to the Carpet.
What Goes In
So after cutting down all the shenanigans, heres what you want to add
DORKS: You get cards for hitting with creatures. Dorks are creatures that give mana and come out very fast. The maximum density of turn 1 dorks means Tymna turn 2, means free cards turn 3. This will improve the consistency of your deck more than anything else you can put in. You're currently missing Llanowar Elves Fyndhorn Elves Boreal Druid Deathrite Shaman Arbor Elf Elvish Mystic . These have the bonuses of working well with Priest of Titania and Elvish Archdruid , which will help you if you decide to run mana denial cards like Winter Orb or Armageddon (which I recommend both). Deathrite hates on GY and will ramp consistently with fetchlands which are prevalent in the format, extremely value. Arbor Elf can ramp more than 1 in tandem with Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth . These dorks will help guarantee strong starts and consistent power to your deck I can't stress this enough.
ROCKS: Adding in the signets/talismans is going to ramp you, color fix you, and work in tandem with shutting off your opponents mana. Really really recommend these especially if your playtesting leaves you unhappy with mana availability.
STAX: This deck only works when you slow the game, I also want to stress this. Yeah you have some neat combos for winning discretely, but you are primarily a beater stax deck. Your commander gives you cards PER TURN, your other commander gives you CREATURES PER SWING. You want to games to go longer so you get more turns for more cards and more free creatures. It really isn't that hard dude. Cards that slow down the game will help you far more than they help your opponent, even symmetrical ones. This is why the deck runs Blood Moon despite being a four color deck. If you let your opponents start tutoring and dropping their big creatures, they will do better in combat than you and you will have a real bad day. If you hit their mana, stop their tutors and draw, and destroy their engines, you will pull ahead from the massive value you generate in the command zone. Please look at Root Maze Winter Orb Armageddon Rule of Law Deafening Silence Eidolon of Rhetoric Stranglehold Collector Ouphe Kataki, War's Wage
If you want to run a stax deck, you have to run the slow down pieces. If you want to build a cool reanimation combo deck, I recommend switching commanders or lists, take a peek at Karador Boonweaver
This list is certainly looking a lot better with the first round of revisions! With some more cuts and shaving off some combos, you will improve its efficiency a lot!
P.S. I couldn't open the choice guidelines tab you made sorry bud.
2 weeks ago
Hey, saw your forum topic asking for help. This is a good start, you have the right idea if you want to make this a cEDH deck then stax is a direction to consider, but there's only three stax cards here.
Consider more stax and hatebears?
- Tangle Wire
- Static Orb
- Ethersworn Canonist
- Blood Moon
- Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
- Hokori, Dust Drinker
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Pithing Needle
- Sphere of Resistance
- Magus of the Moon
- Linvala, Keeper of Silence
- Spirit of the Labyrinth
- Rule of Law
- Containment Priest
- Rampaging Ferocidon
- Torpor Orb
- Harsh Mentor
Priest, Ferocidon and Mentor depend on the meta you play in, but each can stop combos. Priest prevents reanimation combos, Ferocidon prevents infinite creature combos and Mentor prevents infinite nonmana activated abilities combos.
Red does a good job of hating on blue.
All these can be cast with Sunforger.
Extra turn spells can let you hit another player with Akiri potentially killing two players or more with Commander damage.
Grace can prevent you from losing the game after casting these extra turn spells and Grace can be cast with Sunforger.
Other cards to consider adding:
Out of all these suggestions consider this expanded stax package and additional cards to consider adding:
- Tangle Wire
- Static Orb
- Ethersworn Canonist
- Blood Moon
- Phyrexian Revoker
- Pithing Needle
- Spirit of the Labyrinth
- Rule of Law
- Mana Vault
- Grand Abolisher
- Angel's Grace
- Last Chance
- Final Fortune
- Chance for Glory
Good luck with your deck.
2 weeks ago
You've correctly identified some methods already used (signets, dorks) which are extremely common in decks. This is because they 1) ramp 2) color fix 3) spread mana across permanent types to avoid getting wiped. You should DEFINITELY run the signets/talismans and available dorks, they are so incredibly efficient at what they do and at very low real dollar cost, and are diversified to avoid getting totally wiped. I know you want more lands but also consider Armageddon only costs $4 and has already had so many printings and you will see it in competitive decks and other low-tuner competitive decks. If you run Blood Moon on a budget, absolutely run the talismans and signets I can't stress that enough.
However, being a budget boy who wants to go fast myself, I've stumbled across similar questions before, so I'm more than willing to share what I've gleaned. You pretty much want cards that WILL come down turn 1 or 2, cards that give free stuff for cheap $$$, or or pump up those basic land #'s. You may also notice that in typical Blood Pod lists, there aren't that many red cards or red mana sources, and that many of my recommendations are green. You're going to want to weight your colors so red is a smaller part and to run very few red lands because all your nonbasics become Mountains, so run your nonbasics to include a red splash and then run more forests.
It is a Rampant Growth on legs that can block-then-sac on annoying early creatures like Tymna the Weaver . Brings you to a basic so works with BM, it can swing to get Tymna triggers. It spiked a while ago but its still decently cheap to buy.
Nature's Lore is the best of these three, as the forest enters untapped and it can grab shocklands with a Forest type if you dont have BM out. Growth gives the most utility by giving you any basic land for BM. Farseek gives any but a forest, but you have to make a green to cast it so you've got at least one green somehow. These are extremely playable fixer/ramp cards on a budget and are really going to help you with a budget Blood Moon land base. I recommend these over the 3 CMC counterparts Cultivate Kodama's Reach because they come out a turn faster so far lower chance you're going to get staxed out. They curve extremely well into having 4 mana on turn 3 (Tana on turn 3?), as opposed to using all your turn 3 mana for a big turn 4. They also raise the amount of keepable hands you will have, as 2 mana + growth gets you to Tymna, while 2 mana + Cultivate is a mulligan more times. They're even enjoyable to see sometimes late game after MLD.
Insane color fixing and it cantrips, the only problem is you have to run snow-basics instead. If you happen to have enough snow basics laying around, this is a very solid bet for color fixing.
One of these is much cheaper to purchase, so I highly recommend that one. Fixes and cantrips, you really don't mind drawing them late at all.
Color fixer and ramper, works real well with BM. Just add creatures.
If you have them, they will deck thin + get you to the correct basic land. I know fetchlands are expensive, so also consider that there is a lesser known cycle of mirage ETB tapped fetchlands, while definitely worse, are much cheaper. Sleeper cards tagged for your convenience Flood Plain Bad River Rocky Tar Pit Mountain Valley Grasslands . Also DEFINITELY run Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse if you don't already. More sleeper fetches that might interest you Krosan Verge Thawing Glaciers
Nice replacements for Mox Opal and Mox Diamond . They let you hit signets/talismans/growths/big dorks on turn 1. They help you escape from underneath Trinisphere or Sphere of Resistance . They are slot intensive, but with Tymna in command zone to guarantee draws I would also highly recommend these. These will be invaluable in helping you get a stronger start than more expensive opposing stax decks. They're a small hit to the wallet but once again, fraction of the price of Opal/Diamond.
I didn't see these listed in the OP or in comments, so I definitely wanted to bring them up. Work extremely well to accelerate and color fix, they also work with Blood Moon . They're enchantments so it gives extra diversity from creatures/artifacts against wipes. Works extremely well with Arbor Elf and Voyaging Satyr
Tutors basic land of your choice to your hand. There are a couple downsides though 1) Doesn't ramp you at all 2) Most cards with landcycling aren't very good for the actual spell. Landcycling does have a few big perks though 1) its an activated ability, which makes it MUCH harder to interact with and mostly immune to stax effects 2) minor bonus utility of actually playing the card 3) it will become a land eventually so it dodges more hate than other permanent types. This would be effective if you had other strong stax decks in your meta, or a crazy amount of counterspells, but otherwise I'd try one of the other ones I listed first.
3 weeks ago
I have a few more suggestions, looking at this again:
I think Swords to Plowshares is a lot better than Path to Exile . The reason I say that is because life is a lot less of a consideration in a format like EDH, but ramping your opponent is often actively dangerous.
Like Painful Truths , Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise should be on your radar. Idk how fast your deck typically fills its graveyard, but I suggest at least running Treasure Cruise . It can get you back in the game rather fast. Also consider Fact or Fiction .
Narset, Parter of Veils is a POWERHOUSE in EDH these days, especially if you can pair her with a Windfall . This combo is well worth two card slots. Similarly, Ashiok, Dream Render is a real piece of work in many EDH games, though it tends to be better at tables that run a lot of fetch lands.
If your meta is as filled with combo decks as mine is, you may have luck with a Rule of Law .
Depending on your personal level of sadism, pieces of MLD may be on the table in this deck. Consider Armageddon and (if you have a few spare organs) Ravages of War , as well as Cataclysm . Because of Cataclysm 's oldschool wording, it requires people to sacrifice their planeswalkers... just saying.
3 weeks ago
Umm, well I can't offer my exact land selection to you as it involves revised duals I can say this:
Fetches are your friend, seriously. In a 5 color deck having fetches rarely make me sad, so I would run the full contingent:
There are Mirage fetches as well, a whole friendly color cycle of them, they are 'slow' but they can still grab shock lands, and cost no life: Rocky Tar Pit , Bad River , Flood Plain , Grasslands , Mountain Valley These also have the benefit of being absurdly cheap. That being said, if you do not have access to these, I'll offer some other suggestions.
Go up to 42-44 lands. Sure the curve hits 3/4, but I don't think the ideal is to hit 4 lands and be pleased with life, so I would suggest adding lands, and increasing consistency by removing some of the etb tapped lands:
Here are some 'simple' 1:1 conversions for cards I think would suit the deck better.
Honestly I hate the Terminate and some of the other choices but I am exhausted so I thought I would offer some help as opposed to trying to offer more and simply not posting.
1 month ago
1 month ago
Hey man! I got a few suggestions -- I hope you find them helpful:
The best aspect of playing green is its access to turn one dorks. I'm sure you've noticed your Birds of Paradise is a great play to lead with; you should consider the following: Llanowar Elves , Elvish Mystic , Fyndhorn Elves , Avacyn's Pilgrim and Orcish Lumberjack . Bloom Tender and Priest of Titania are good two-mana plays in this sort of package.
Another benefit to running dorks in green, aside from their mana, is that they're bodies. An Overrun effect can easily take the game, if you have a critical mass of creatures. Ironically, Overrun itself is pretty mediocre as far as Overrun effects go... I suggest running Triumph of the Hordes and Craterhoof Behemoth , since these are great ways to make an army of tiny duders into an army of deadly duders. Craterhoof Behemoth is especially good, since you can fetch it out with Natural Order , should you choose to run that.
So, I'm not quite sure how your deck is going to play. However, I suspect you'll have a lot of creatures during the mid-game. I think you should consider running Shamanic Revelation and/or Slate of Ancestry .
Veil of Summer is one of the more absurdly good cards printed recently. I highly suggest running it in any green deck -- it's a cantrip that protects your guys from counters and spot removal. There're some really odd niche-cases it's good in, too, like against Bitter Ordeal .
I don't think Path to Exile is very good. In general, ramping your opponents in a format with forty life and several enemies trying to do busted things is a dangerous move. I like your Swords to Plowshares a lot more.
Naya has access to some serious hate, in the form of bears and in the form of regular stax pieces. You should at least consider some of the following: Aven Mindcensor , Aura of Silence , Winter Orb (especially if you're running the dorks mentioned in (1)), Linvala, Keeper of Silence , Price of Glory , Root Maze , Armageddon (if you're like me and don't mind getting flipped off), Gaddock Teeg , Collector Ouphe , Stony Silence , Null Rod , Kataki, War's Wage and similar such nonsense. These are a really good way to slow down opponents long enough to get your army out and swinging.
Finally, depending on your meta, there're a few green enchantments you should strongly consider: Choke , Carpet of Flowers and Compost are all super powerful, given the right meta. Blue and black are the two most common colors in EDH, so you can be pretty certain you'll be facing one or both most of the time.
Right. That's all I got for now. Good luck!
Armageddon occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.03%