Scheming Symmetry

Sorcery

Choose two target players. Each of them searches their library for a card, then shuffles their library and puts that card on top of it.

Discussion (49)

hiddengibbons on Psychic Spiral

3 weeks ago

@wallisface:You are correct in the sense that It requires Thoughtscour and Scheming Symmetry together to make Demonic Tutor. Or a mill engine such as Codex Shredder or Ashiok to prevent your opponent from gaining access to something important. But it also gives you a chance to play mind games. Should I put that card on top or am I going to get thoughtscoured again? I suspect that once the mill engine starts, the opponent will just start tutoring things they don’t need in order to filter the deck. I’m going to have to actually try it out before I swap Symmetry for Profane Tutor

wallisface on Psychic Spiral

3 weeks ago

I think the big issue i’ve had from playing Scheming Symmetry is that it creates card-disadvantage for yourself, as it just puts something on top of your library. You need whatever you put on top to be able to 2-for-1 next turn just to break even (and with the amount of effort it requires to setup, you want a lot more than a 2-for-1).

I’m personally of the view that its a trap card (reads like its useful, plays terribly), and really the card wants to exist in a deck assembling a game-winning combo, to counteract the card-disadvantage it creates

K1ngMars on Help optimizing my Wilhelt Precon

1 month ago

I would definitely suggest you to include the recently printed Poppet Factory, as it allows Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver to generate a zombie every time you sacrifice a zombie, due to the fact that the Decayed ability gets overwritten. Besides, Gravecrawler too allows for infinite loops with Phyrexian Altar and a permanent dealing damage triggered by creature deaths, like Bastion of Remembrance.

To support the combo route, which could definitely help in keeping up your game, I would also suggest to add some tutors, to help you smooth out your hand and always find the right cards at the right time. Such cards could range from Lim-Dul's Vault to Scheming Symmetry or Demonic Tutor, mainly depending on your budget. Remember, tutors don't necessarily need to be 60 bucks to be good. They are always good.

Apart from that though, another proactive way to stop you opponents into their tracks is to simply use counterspells. Dimir offers some of the best control magic available, amongst which I'll recall: Counterspell, Countersquall, Arcane Denial, Wash Away, Disdainful Stroke... The choices are endless and should be suited to what are the main threats you wish to answer in your playgroup. Overall, 5 counterspells should be enough to step up your game a bit in terms of interaction, without making your deck a control-focused spellslinger deck.

As a last note, I'll link you the deck of one of my friends, which I've helped with in upgrading. It's a comboless Wilhelt with quite a strong presnece in games, hopefully it may be of some inspiration to you.

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Undead Unleashed | Upgrade Precon copy

Commander / EDH emanem98

SCORE: 2 | 1 COMMENT | 60 VIEWS

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trippy_mcfly on Mono Black Death Plague

1 month ago

Cool deck. I'm here to offer some suggestions after you pointed me here from your other deck.

Tergrid, God of Fright  ^Flip is a powerful commander and generates insane advantage in 4-player games. Let's take a look at this deck and see what it is doing, and then streamline it. I see three main objectives of this deck:

1 - RAMPING.

This is pretty much a primary objective of any commander deck, since if your only source of mana is playing one land per turn, you're going to fall way behind. Your main ramping plan for this deck is to double lands, using Cabal Coffers, Cabal Stronghold, Caged Sun, Crypt Ghast, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and Nirkana Revenant. This is super cool and probably a pretty strong plan. We want to try to maximize this plan. How can we do that?

All of these cards want you to load up on basic swamps, which you did. We want to make sure we are playing a basic swamp every turn. Solemn Simulacrum is definitely a worthwhile add. Liliana of the Dark Realms is very helpful and I'm happy to see her in this deck. Often times Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is a worthwhile add for decks with Cabal Coffers. I think it is worth it here. Although you yourself don't have many non-swamps that will benefit from Urborg, you are likely going to be stealing people's lands with Tergrid, and counting those as swamps will be helpful for you.

How else can we keep getting swamps onto the battlefield to power up this strategy? Card draw. The more cards in your hand the higher the chance you will have a swamp to play every turn. Night's Whisper and Sign in Blood are great for this. Disciple of Bolas is solid too. Dread Presence loves swamps and is a must-add. I would add Phyrexian Arena, which is great card draw for you. Necropotence, one of the craziest cards in the game, is also a worthwhile addition. Not as good but worth consideration are Yawgmoth's Bargain and Null Profusion. Two other well-known card draw machines in black are Dark Confidant and Bolas's Citadel. You have some costly spells in your deck, so they might be a bit of a liability. If you want to include them, Sensei's Divining Top pairs very well with them.

Just because you are mainly ramping with land doubling doesn't mean there isn't room for other ramping as well. You have Black Market, which I have never personally tested, but is probably decent. Black has some explosive, single-turn ramp with Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, and Culling the Weak. These cards would do well in letting you get out expensive plays ahead of schedule, mainly Tergrid. Artifact ramp is also great in any deck. I would add Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Jeweled Lotus, and Jet Medallion. I would consider adding even more artifact ramp as well. Getting down Tergrid as early as turn 1 or 2 is just so good.

2 - SACRIFICE AND DISCARD.

Once you have Tergrid out, sacrifice and discard become powerful effects that let you take control of your opponent's permanents. This is insane advantage and if left unchecked for very long will win you the game. Syphon Mind while Tergrid is in play not only puts you up 4 cards in comparison to each opponent (since they each went down 1 and you went up 3), but also could net you 3 more cards if they discard permanents that then go onto your field. That's insane. Let's take a look at all the cards you have that enable Tergrid:

SACRIFICE:

Archfiend of Depravity - A one-sided, almost board wipe that repeats every turn? Pretty solid. Getting the creatures onto your field with Tergrid? That is nuts. The one issue is that some commander decks won't have that many more than 2 creatures on the field when this comes down, and if they do, then this card and/or Tergrid become a big target, but if you survive the turn, this and your commander will put you ahead so far.

Butcher of Malakir - Similar to Archfiend. If this guy sticks around for a bit, you're going to be at such an advantage. It costs 7 which is a bit high and very vulnerable to something like Mana Drain, so I wouldn't be super upset if you cut it, but it is great with Tergrid.

Gatekeeper of Malakir - This guy only costs three and steals a creature if Tergrid is on the field. Love it.

Phyrexian Obliterator - If someone is dumb enough to deal damage to this guy, then you're getting a lot of their permanents! I don't love this card for you. People will just leave it alone and then you just hit someone for 5 each turn or leave up a blocker, which is a bit slow.

Sheoldred, Whispering One - Similar to Archfiend. If this guy sticks around for a bit, you're going to be at such an advantage. It costs 7 which is a bit high and very vulnerable to something like Mana Drain, so I wouldn't be super upset if you cut it, but it is great with Tergrid.

Torment of Hailfire - Expensive and liable to be countered but if it resolves then you will get a ton of value!

Dictate of Erebos - I like it. Let's say you have 10 mana. Cast Tergrid, then somebody goes to kill him. Flash this card in. Now, you at least get 3 of your opponents creatures on the way out!

Grave Pact - I like this as well. You can't flash it in, but if you put this card on the field, then people will have to kill this before Tergrid comes down or else end up giving you their creatures.

The Eldest Reborn - Immediate impact with Tergrid on the field, pretty good value on its own. Definitely a keep.

DISCARD:

Liliana, Defiant Necromancer - You need to flip her first, but once flipped she is great.

Syphon Mind - Great.

Torment of Hailfire - Expensive and liable to be countered but if it resolves then you will get a ton of value!

The Eldest Reborn - Immediate impact with Tergrid on the field, pretty good value on its own. Definitely a keep.

... and that's it. We need more cards that are busted with Tergrid! The following would be great adds to your deck: Smallpox, Dark Deal, Liliana's Triumph, Plaguecrafter, Soul Shatter, Mire in Misery, Innocent Blood, Vona's Hunger, Death Cloud, Burglar Rat, Demon's Disciple, Fleshbag Marauder, Elderfang Disciple, Liliana, Waker of the Dead, Bottomless Pit, Fraying Omnipotence, Rotting Rats, Cunning Lethemancer, Merciless Executioner, and a personal favorite: Smokestack.

Notice that all of these cards are typically even trades (ex: I play Elderfang Disciple, going down 1 card, everyone else goes down 1 card.) These aren't great on their own since it costs you mana to do so, and, in the case of discard and sacrifice, the opponent gets to choose an asset that they are least upset to get rid of, making them actually below-even trades. However, they become insanely busted with Tergrid. (ex: I play Elderfang Disciple, going down 1 card in hand for a measly 1/1. But, I get a Carpet of Flowers, basic plains, and Birds of Paradise on my field? Now that's an amazing play). Therefore, the ones that are recurring are better, since they give you more chances to make sure they resolve while Tergrid is on the field. (ex: I play Cunning Lethemancer and my opponent kills Tergrid. Later in the turn I play Tergrid again, albeit for 7 mana now due to commander tax. Next turn, with the Lethemancer trigger, I get some great value!)

Here are some other cards that work well with Tergrid, although they only target one opponent: Sudden Edict, Hellish Rebuke, Pharika's Libation, Diabolic Edict, Duress, Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, Chain of Smog, Despise, and Divest.

Notice that in the absence of Tergrid, these cards are negative trades. They set you and an opponent back by putting you both down one card. The other two opponents are left untouched. Seeing them early in the game is not particularly helpful since you'd rather spend the early game ramping. They are great and slowing down whoever is winning, but at the expense of your own board. There is a trade-off here, since these can be leveraged politically. "Each opponent discards a card"" can give you tons of value with Tergrid on the field but makes you 3 enemies. "Target opponent discards a card"" gives you not as much value in general but you can leverage this to make someone else the common enemy or make a deal with a player ("if you don't attack me next turn I won't target you with my Duress"). Things like Duress can also target specific cards, which is an added benefit for you and an added detriment to the opponent.

I would run some from each category, probably with an emphasis on maximizing Tergrid value.

3 - DRAIN AND GAIN.

Blood Artist and other cards gain you one life and drain your opponent one life. This is cool and certainly an interesting archetype of a deck. It doesn't synergize with Tergrid particularly well. I personally would not use this strategy at all in this deck and maximize the Tergrid plan. However, Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond is an awesome combo and an unexpected way to finish the game for you while people are busy dealing with Tergrid. If you want to keep this, I would trim some of the other cards, such as Exsanguinate and maybe Underworld Dreams.

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So, now that we know what the 3 objectives are, and have maybe cut the third, we have a bit more of a plan. I've suggested adding some card draw and mana rocks for ramp, and tons more Tergrid synergy. What are the cuts? I would say anything that doesn't fit in with the objectives, so basically any card I haven't mentioned already, unless it gives great value on its own. I'll go through some:

Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are incredible cards and provide great value. Diabolic Tutor, Scheming Symmetry, and Shrouded Lore are worse tutor effects and should probably be moved to the maybe board. Sudden Spoiling is interesting and stops somebody from comboing off on their turn so is probably worth it. Reanimate is good value and should probably stay, same with Animate Dead. Demonic Vigor protects creatures but not Tergrid, unless you want him going to your hand. This is risky but probably fine. I could see him getting countered and then removed from your graveyard which puts you back majorly, but I could also see you avoiding commander tax. Worth looking into. Undying Evil is strictly better since it has instant speed and keeps him on the field. We might also want to protect him with Lightning Greaves or Swiftfoot Boots

Coffin Queen is too expensive and vulnerable. Drana, Liberator of Malakir is cool for aggressive strategies and can help you close out the game but is out of place in this deck. Falkenrath Noble is an overcosted Blood Artist. Gonti, Lord of Luxury is a value creature that if you can get his ETB many times, which your deck can't really do. Grave Titan isn't worth it in this deck. Gravedigger is fine but might be a bit slow. Helldozer is probably not worth it unless you want to pick on somebody lol. Korlash, Heir to Blackblade is not worth it. Massacre Wurm might not be worth it. Nighthowler isn't worth it. Opposition Agent is always a good add. Phage the Untouchable is too slow and vulnerable. Sepulchral Primordial might not be worth it. Skirsdag High Priest is probably not worth it. Syr Konrad, the Grim is not worth it. Wight of Precinct Six is not worth it. Tainted Strike is not worth it. Lashwrithe is not worth it. That's about 15 cuts right there.

Props to you for building Tergrid and having an interesting ramp strategy. I think if you go more in on the Tergrid plan by cutting unrelated cards for cards that ramp or are good with Tergrid then your deck will be a lot more reliable. After all, the most fun part of this deck is going off with Tergrid!

Hope this helps.

Lord_Grimm on Nekustar

2 months ago

Cards I'd consider adding (in addition to your list above): Spiteful Visions, Liliana's Caress, Dark Deal, Peer into the Abyss, Incendiary Command, Winds of Change, Kederekt Parasite, Kess, Dissident Mage, Whirlpool Warrior, Runehorn Hellkite, Snapcaster Mage, Baleful Mastery, Vision Skeins, Deflecting Swat, AEtherize, Rakdos Charm, Cerebral Vortex, Prosperity, Echo of Eons, Wheel of Misfortune, Demonic Tutor, Commit / Memory, Day's Undoing, Solve the Equation, Collective Defiance, Fascination, Game Plan, Scheming Symmetry, Mizzix's Mastery, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Folio of Fancies, Memory Jar, Crawlspace, Primal Amulet  ^Flip, Forced Fruition, Underworld Breach, No Mercy, Sphinx's Tutelage

hiddengibbons on Psychic Spiral

3 months ago

@ BEDECK: Thanks for the advice. Ashiok, Dream Render is a good addition since Scheming Symmetry with Thought Scour or Codex Shredder against some decks is tantamount to giving your opponent a free Entomb. Adding more removal is also good. Especially with those newer removal spells

DrukenReaps on Prosper Through Theft

4 months ago

Do I put Scheming Symmetry in here? Worst case it is a tutor for me and 1 opponent. Pretty bad imo but best case I target 2 opponents and cast or already have Opposition Agent... #EvilThoughts

Coward_Token on Triple Six, Five, Forked Tongue [Primer]

5 months ago

Nice deck. In goldfish playtesting it seems to make impulsive drawing fun yet practical, as the OK deck MV + Treasures lets you typically cast exiled cards.

Nitpicking feedback: Gonti, Lord of Luxury doesn't seem worth it without a flicker source, unless your meta is heavy on topdeck tutors (yes, I see Scheming Symmetry ). It's pretty much an unexciting body with Shimmer of Possibility attached except usually worse because stolen cards, on average, synergize worse with your deck than your own cards. I'm more okay with your other card stealers as they're all some combination of being cheaper, more reliable, reusable, and stealing trough some form of control.