Scheming Symmetry

Sorcery

Choose two target players. Each of them searches their library for a card, then shuffles their library and puts that card on top of it.

Combos

• Ob Nixilis, Unshackled + Scheming Symmetry
• Opposition Agent + Scheming Symmetry

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Arena	Legal
Block Constructed	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Gladiator	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Historic	Legal
Historic Brawl	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Modern	Legal
Modern Beyond Horizons	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Pioneer	Legal
Planar Constructed	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Tiny Leaders	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (50)

kamarupa on Uren8

2 months ago

Oh boy. I have... uh... a lot of thoughts.

I'm going to start with ramp and mana base. I've been commenting something along these lines on a lot of decks lately. Ramp isn't much of a ramp if you're missing land drops regularly. Getting to, say 3 available mana on t2 is nice, but if you don't hit a land drop or dork on the next 3 turns, the ramp didn't really help. I'm generally not a fan of spells like Arboreal Grazer and even less a fan when there aren't a substantial number of lands in a deck to start with. At a mere 20 lands, you're going to be have to be very lucky to get both Arboreal Grazer AND 2+ lands in an opening hand. And even if you do, the likelihood of you continuing to draw lands just isn't very high. Basically, any effect that lets you "play an additional land" is just way too conditional to be consistent in my view, and therefore, I prefer to run with dorks and enchantments and rarely, rocks. You do have an enchantment that tutors you 2 lands, but at a pretty steep 4MV, I think it's going to function as much as a 'thinner' as it will a ramp spell. I do see some redundancy there with Prime Time, so I could see it be a useful spell. I should state that Prime Time isn't a creature I have much experience with, so I don't know much about what other spells synergize with it best, but I have a gut feeling that what you've brewed could have better synergy with it. It seems like it might be getting included because it's a well known and feared threat more than being a perfect fit. You also have Flare of Cultivation, which seems like your 3rd best ramp spell after your two dorks. While I like that you can cheat it into play, I don't like the required sac cost to do so as the only really good target is the Arboreal Grazer and that's just too conditional to be consistent. It's not a spell I have lot of experience with, and while I'm not a big deck thinner, I can't deny it has a lot of powerful potential. But I want more good targets for it, preferably ones that actually WANT to be sacrificed. The best part of your ramp is that you have 8 1MV dorks. Given your EXTREMELY high average MV of 4.35, I think 8-10 is probably the right number. To sum up, I would cut Arboreal Grazer and possibly reconsider both Prime Time and Encroaching Dragonstorm, either leaning into Prime Times most classically defined deck elements or cutting it. I'd try to find another 1MV creature for your Flare of Cultivation to target (6-8x 1MV non-dorks that want to be sacced) or I'd look for some other ramp choices. I'd also consider adding in something like Fertile Ground, or maybe Utopia Sprawl, as you do already have a good number of lands with the basic Forest type. If you do go for the Sprawl, then perhaps Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth might be a smart add. Finally, I'd like to see this deck reach for at least 22 lands if not 24. You've just got a hell of a lot of very high MV spells and these days I strive for 22 lands as my minimum. It's just more consistent.

Next, I want to follow up on some of what Balaam__ brought up - disruption. Disruption doesn't do much good in a sidebaord. It needs to be mainboarded or else your deck will not only end up unbalanced when sideboarding, but you'll also be tempted not to sideboard as much as you struggle to choose what spells to swap out of the mainboard. I believe almost all decks need at least 4x disruption spells in the mainboard, with 8 being best. Disruption comes in a lot of forms - counterspell is great, but I don't like tieing up mana playing the waiting game. Removal is classic for reason. Usually half of 8 disruption spells are a form a removal. Sideboards offer us different methods of removal so you can get past all the defenses opponents might use to prevent that removal. That makes sideboarding a lot easier to pull off, swapping removal for removal. I really like protection spells Heroic Intervention - while defensively, it can function like a counterspell, offensively it can do things counterspell can't. It largely comes down to preference, but disruption beyond removal is almost always essential. Of course, there's also discard, which is a solid choice, too, though I don't prefer it because it misses cards drawn after it's cast and so isn't as foolproof as a pre-emptive defensive play. I also like squeezing in 1x Fog spell when I can. I love the comedic flavor of it, but again, that's just my preference/sense of humor. Assuming you cut Arboreal Grazer, Flare of Cultivation, and at least a few copies of Encroaching Dragon Storm, even after adding 2x land, you should have room for at least 4x disruption spells in your mainboard. Incidentally, all these changes should also help bring down your average MV, which will make the deck not only faster, but more resilient as it will be able to respond to opponents.

One thing I do think you have right here is the number of creatures. But I'd like to see tighter choices that play off each other a bit more. I get that Prime Time and Flare of Cultivation support Ureni, the Song Unending, but at 3 copies and Legendary status, I'd want to solely focus on that creature or abandon that whole strategy - it's all or nothing with spells like that - run 4x of Ureni to maximize its odds it comes up when Breaching Dragonstorm when that hits. Maybe even look for spells that let you tutor it to the top of your library - Scheming Symmetry comes to mind, though I don't think that's exactly the right spell for this brew. Brainstorm might be a good option - not really a path to card advantage, but it would be useful in setting up Breaching Dragonstorm.

To return to Balaam__'s feedback, I also agree with him that Breaching Dragonstorm, especially at 5MV is too easy a target for opponents to thwart. I do think you've got enough ramp to hardcast some of your threats at least some of the time, but adding in a secondary (or even primary?) cheat-in spell would almost certainly make the deck more consistent. Elvish Piper, for example might be just as fast or even more consistent, though it wouldn't help with your big sorcery spells. Although I think this would be a significant departure from your current brew, Maelstrom Archangel would be a nearly identical backup to Breaching Dragonstorm. I'd probably go for 6-8 total "cheat-in" spells.

Overall, I feel like this deck isn't quite focused enough. It's not clear what it really wants to accomplish and doesn't seem completely committed to any one goal. At the same time, it also seems a little over-gunned - I sometimes say, "you don't need to bring a tank to a water-pistol fight to get a win" - when it comes to successful brewing, it's not the biggest threat that wins, it's the fastest fully effective one. So my broadstroke advice is to try to narrow the deck down to the core you really want to win with and try to support that core as much as you can.

I do love me some card advantage and I can see how Up the Beanstalk could have been useful here. As alternatives, you might consider Garruk's Uprising, Tribute to the World Tree, or even just plain old Harmonize

Sometimes I find I'll start a brew like this and realize I might have tried to squeeze 2 or more decks into one. It might be useful to fork this once or twice and explore different aspects in each fork. Make one with a lot more disruption mainboard, one with different ramp spells, one that really focuses on Prime Time, etc etc.

I hope some of this is helpful. I'm just spitballing off the top of my head. Don't take it as me being too critical. I'm really just throwing out the first thoughts that came to mind and I'm very likely to have missed nuances, etc.

Belfore on Mono-Black Pain

2 months ago

Drop the Temple of the False God it is a trap in this deck. and no Grave Pact, or Scheming Symmetry (to go with your Opposition Agent)?

Lihrok on Lihrok's finest UB Mill

9 months ago

Scheming Symmetry is a dream castle card. Its not good on its own, its need other cards to work for the dream outcome. U need to cast it sorcery speed, need a draw effect, then u cast ur trap but end up outtapped and not won yet. Thats the best scenario for this card. The worse scenario is, u r in topdeck mode and draw Scheming symetry - now u can give ur opp the best possible card.

So, imo, Scheming Symmetry dream is just a dream like the Mono-U Sanity Grinding dream.

wallisface on Sultai Lantern Control

1 year ago

As a long-time lantern player myself, I have some thoughts:

• your only on-board interaction at the moment is the two copies of Drown in the Loch… this feels severely inadequate for cleaning up the board once your lock is in-place. I would be expecting stuff like Prismatic Ending or Abrupt Decay so you could hit a wider variety of answers, or Fatal Push so you could be more proactive. In any case having only 2 on-board interaction pieces feels too low. Added to that, Lantern never needs countermagic because you’re able to soo easily strip the opponents hand and then control their topdeck.

• Emry, Lurker of the Loch validates your opponents cards too much imo (i.e it means their killspells aren’t dead-draws, so there’s less garbage they can topdeck). I’d ditch it.

• In a format as fast as modern, there will be lots of instances where you need to get Ensnaring Bridge online asap. I don’t think Ashiok, Dream Render, being a 3-mana cards, helps with that. It’s a sideboard option at-best.

• Ego Drain feels incredibly dangerous to yourself as far as limiting your own limited resources. You really need Thoughtseize

• Scheming Symmetry only feels useful if you’re already ahead/winning. Though there’s possibly a few niche situations where it’s helpful, so maybe its fine.

• you really need a copy of The Underworld Cookbook to deal with aggro and burn, while also ensuring nothing gets under Ensnaring Bridge.

austintayshus on Dimir Traps

1 year ago

what do you think of Scheming Symmetry to help trigger your Mindbreak Trap? If I'm not mistaken, it also keeps your opponent from drawing the card they search for.

77hi77 on Restrictions to make commanders interesting?

1 year ago

I've been looking through my decks lately, and it's really hitting me how weird my deckbuilding style is. So while I don't consider myself an experienced player by any stretch of the imagination, I might have some perspectives to share.

Similar to what legendofa said, I'm a huge fan of messing with the colour pie. So, one deck I'm working on is Evra, Halcyon Witness, which most people would see as a life gain commander, I see it as a really specialized version of Hatred, but instead of "Pay X life", X is set for you. So that made me think, can I build a mono-white deck that plays like a mono-black? How many options does white have for paying life and sacrificing your own creatures? I'd like to do something similar with the other colours, like how many {U}{B} one-drops can I use to make a funky aggro deck?

A deck I'm still in the theorizing process for is the answer to the question "how funny would it be if I built a deck where I can't cast the commander?". Right now I'm thinking Inalla, Archmage Ritualist but build the deck in mono-blue and just go blue wizard tribal. Maybe I'd allow myself a Fellwar Stone and one card that can let me steal another player's mana rock, so that casting my commander becomes an achievement to celebrate. From there it's a balance of building a viable 99 that has a chance to win the game, while sticking to the idea that I want this deck to be funny. This was very much inspired by watching Commander at Home whenever Olivia gets incoherent from laughing so hard at her own shenanigans.

My favourite deck I've built yet, which still needs quite a bit of work, is Defile Me Daddy Rakdos. Rakdos the Defiler is the commander, and most decks I've seen with him as the commander focus on how painful it is to be hit by him, then double down on that pain. I thought, it'd be more fun if I were to lean into the politics of a commander like that. So I put in a whole bunch of cards that demand deals: Scheming Symmetry, Infernal Offering, Sower of Discord, and other effects that either say "two of us will get a very nice thing" or "two of us will get a very bad thing". I see it as forcing you to get in character, you kind of have to play like a demon to pilot this demon deck.

I've also been eyeing proliferating commanders, mostly because the lands and mana rocks that use counters of some sort are really cool. Peat Bog, Altar of Shadows and Pyramid of the Pantheon, for example. Then balance it with non-standard proliferating wincons, so instead of +1/+1 counters and infect, I've been thinking of cards like Strixhaven Stadium, or the ult on a few planeswalkers (Vraska, Scheming Gorgon immediately comes to mind).

Hope that gave you some ideas! I'm on the exact opposite journey, because I'm too good at restricting myself, and whenever I try to bring friends into the game I can't really lend them any of my decks.

kamarupa on Cloaked Whispers

1 year ago

I love the concept of this deck, but it is def not going to be easy to make it work well. You have some obvious needs in 1) getting the combo pieces 2) having enough mana to cast them all before your opponent stops you 3) having room for defense and removal and 4) making sure your cloaked creatures die.

1) You not only need have some way of assembling your combo, you also need a way to put a spell on top of your library. I have to do this with my deck Cover Girl. The only spells I could find that made sense in that deck were: Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Brainstone, and Scheming Symmetry. I suggest running 2x of each of the first. Scheming Symmetry is a pretty big risk, so I advise against that here. The upshot of Jace is that you can cycle through your library 3 cards at a time, so you not only get to control your top card, you also get to filter for what you need.

2) Provided you employ some added filtering with Jace and Brainstone, I think you can remove some of your extra threats. This will allow for a little ramp. I guess I'd probably go with Birds of Paradise unless you're worried it will get bolted for being a bird. Then I'd probably go with a land enchantment like Fertile Ground. I think with the high-ish cost of your combo pieces, a little ramp is going to be helpful in creating a consistency in speed. (not to be fast, just to be as fast as it can be more reliably)

3) It occurs to me that cloaked spells could be blockers IF you both don't have all the combo pieces in place AND you whiffed with Hide in Plain Sight. Those are somewhat narrow conditions, so it's probably best not rely on that. I see you have room for 35 more cards, approx 24 of which will probably be lands, so I'll have to wait and see how much room you have for more defense and removal, but I think you have to include Bone Splinters. It's not as fast as I'd like but it pulls double duty in kicking off the final step in your combo and it does it for 1 MV instead of 3 like Start / Finish. I'd probably throw in 1x Fog, too. And Assassin's Trophy and Abrupt Decay would be excellent additions to the mainboard and sideboard. I'd probably go 4xBone Splinters, 2xAssassin's Trophy, 1xAbrupt Decay in the main and then extra of the instants in the sideboard.

4) Bone Splinters helps make sure you creatures die, but a board wipe like Killing Wave would probably be useful as well late game.

Profet93 on Stax Colony

1 year ago

Opposition Agent - Make your negative into a positive

Scheming Symmetry/Wishclaw Talisman - Since you don't mind letting others tutor

Deliver Unto Evil - Recursion for thrumming