|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2015 (C15)||Common|
|Dragon's Maze (DGM)||Common|
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: Add or to your mana pool.
, , Sacrifice Orzhov Cluestone: Draw a card.
Orzhov Cluestone Discussion
4 months ago
Very cool. Did you win any of the games? Wasn't sure if you mean you won on turn 5 in the 1v1's or if the game was won. If you were going for it on T5, and winning, that's pretty good.
Depending on the Commanders in the pod, Breya, Etherium Shaper for example, Hellkite Tyrant can be quite useful (remember he has Trample to get around the Thopter army). Reya Dawnbringer is too slow, if you want the recursion, go with Adarkar Valkyrie can be responsive (protecting whats getting controlled), and has combos:
Reya Dawnbringer doesn't trigger properly and just puts your threat assessment higher when trying to combo. Maybe with a Rune-Scarred Demon and a Goblin Bombardment she would be ok, but I would probably still go with the Adarkar Valkyrie to protect Kaalia of the Vast .
Will take a while to learn how to play too, Master of Cruelties can be a powerful ally, with Instant tutor Tainted Pact . Remember, Master of Cruelties puts their life to 1 in the "declare blockers" step, and Kaalia of the Vast hits them for 2 damage eliminating the player, usually remove the highest threat or faster commander first.
Gamble is great, CMC1 tutor. I just worry on T5 it's not going to be helpful because Mardu doesn't draw well enough, so the probability of discarding the card you Tutor is very high. On T1 or T2 it's great, plus its , which if you play Badlands T1 is fine, but usually I try and build first. Still a great substitute card! Very playable in any version.
Multi-Player commander, the best commanders only win 50% of the time. Usually how it goes, is 1 person goes for it, gets Force of Will or Pact of Negation , then the next goes, same, then finally someone goes. Usually, if I have it, I go for it, figure I'll win more often that way than lose.
If your going to play Mardu , play to it's strengths, avoid putting in high CMC tools to make it into .
Orzhov Cluestone = - or = Total Cost . Can't easily be played off other rocks, and doesn't convert colorless into colored mana either which Kaalia of the Vast needs. CMC to draw 1 card, and sacrifice your mana source is bad business, too situational, and slows you down in the 80% rule, ignore the 20%, like T5 when it can draw you a card for CMC!!! Yikes.
Commander's Sphere is borderline playable, because:
CMC - = Total Cost then Sacrifice to draw (No additional cost or required). If you think a slower rock is needed, Commander's Sphere is the only playable one of those listed, don't do that please!
Just have to accept that your never going to have good draw, choose a commander with is the best, if that's what you want, then you are just going to Show and Tell a lot. Commander usually ends where everyone is about the same T3-T5. Often if your the first to try, you get countered, Sometimes you get lucky and a Kess, Dissident Mage tries to Show and Tell an Omniscience and you successfully get it with a free cast Angel of Despair and they can't Enter the Infinite to get the Force of Will to hand, and hopefully they were tutoring their win-con and can't stop you when you go!
I usually attack the control player Serra Ascendant is always awesome T1, it puts them on a timer, like 4 turns or so, and sometimes it disrupts their tutoring, pulling Slaughter Pact / Toxic Deluge or like trying to overload a Cyclonic Rift instead of going for it themselves in some cases, thats a win for me, even if I don't win. Unless there are unbalanced decks in the pod, by T5-T6 everyone should be ready to go, or 1-2 turns from going anyway, just who successfully do it. Sometimes I strategically wait till someone tries to win and gets countered, but I play aggressive, I usually just go for it asap lol. If I can combo T2, usually people have been playing mana sources and don't have the mana to commit to a Counterspell of any kind. I did get Pact of Negation on turn 2 and the player had no way to pay the cost and was eliminated lol, luckily that game I had a Yawgmoth's Will and went the next turn, oh, remember with Yawgmoth's Will , it's CMC - play a fetch land from your graveyard = CMC. Always remember to play that land from the graveyard!
Grim Tutor is pricy, just because of the set printed in which sucks, needs a Judge Foil reprint.
I usually try and hit the control player with a Rakdos the Defiler as well, it really slows them down, or they have to control Rakdos the Defiler and then usually can't control when you go for the win. Give it time, will take you a bit to figure out your tutor progression. A Lightning Greaves scares people, and a Razaketh, the Foulblooded is almost always a win (unless you cast the Kaalia of the Vast that turn with Haste, then I usually drop in Ob Nixilis, Unshackled first, stops tutoring for lands, tutoring for win-con's etc, or if they do, puts them close enough to kill with damage!). Be aggressive with Doom Whisperer try to Surveil win with it, sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it hits! All you need is the Buried Alive or Reanimate depending on the situation. One time I didn't have enough life to win with Razaketh, the Foulblooded so I tutored Whip of Erebos then attacked with Razaketh, the Foulblooded and then won after.
Oh also, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Restoration Angel obviously can attack and win, but sometimes, Post-Combat Main Phase, I just tutor Goblin Bombardment and sacrifice all the angels to win (instead of from attacking damage).
Anything you found ineffective? I wouldn't worry about T5-T6 land drops, hopefully you have a mana rock, so casting Kaalia of the Vast with Lightning Greaves for CMC should still be possible. If she CMC, then the game going very long, and others just killing instead of tutoring/going for the win.
If you win, 40%-50% of 4-player pod games you have a strong deck. Theres a link to some statistical spreadsheets in this article Pursuit of Knowledge - Intro, The word data is the hyperlink, other than Adun Oakenshield (for some unknown reason to me), the best commanders only win like 50% even if they are $7,000 vs $350 opponents.
4 months ago
What up spirit
Any new gameplays/ ideas you can report on? I seen you replaced Terminate with Faithless Looting I got around to playing the deck (Keeping in mind, I put Gamble inplace of Grim Tutor , Reya Dawnbringer inplace of Hellkite Tyrant and Faithless Looting inplace of Mausoleum Secrets )
I played a total of five games, two of which were 1 on 1's. The two that were 1 on 1's, both were won on turn Five, One on first main phase and the other on second main phase. The other three group games won on turn 8, 9 and 10 (Although I technically lost, we kept the game going to see when i'd win. The turn 8 and 9 loss was due to the player going infinite 1 turn before me. turn 10 win was a legit win, it was just one long controlling game)
The group games were a bit difficult, especially when you're against counter heavy/controlling decks. Found myself needing more card draw/tutoring. And that doesn't at all justify anything yet. I still need more gameplay.
I did miss some land drops in two out of those three group games. A turn 5 land drop in one game and a turn 5 and 6 in another game. I think I'm going to keep Gamble and if I can find Grim Tutor for a decent price, add that in as well. Was going to add in cruel tutor over Grim Tutor but tutoring straight to the hand is more beneficial than to the top of the deck. I'm also going to put back in Mausoleum Secrets as I always found myself needing either Reanimate or Animate Dead .
I'm also contemplating on replacing Orzhov Signet with Orzhov Cluestone , Mardu Banner or a simple yet affective Commander's Sphere just to take advantage of that card draw if needed. All in the air, I definitely do not have enough game time with the deck yet but I will say one thing, its very fun to play!
5 months ago
Some of these cuts below are for efficiency to reign in your cmc, others because there are better cards. Are you looking to make a lifegain-matters deck or a tokens/aristocrat deck? You have a ton of lifegain sources that situationally come into play.
Consider cutting some of the permanent-based sources of card draw for things like Night's Whisper or Sign in Blood . Harvester of Souls is great, especially with Teysa on the board, but it costs 6 mana and can potentially draw you into nothing. Or it may give underwhelming returns for the amount of mana you have to pay into it.
6 months ago
Some cards I think you could cut; Demonic Tutor - there isn't a combo you're working towards, is there? And if not, seems like a situational card at best. Do you need both Ashnod's Altar and Phyrexian Altar ? Helm of the Host seems too expensive to ever bother using. 9 mana before you can get any benefit out of it is a high cost indeed. I just think Orzhov Cluestone is bad. I could be wrong.
Holy Cow I just realized this list is 30 cards heavy. Start by cutting almost all of the common creatures. That'll get rid of up to 15 cards. Some of these are obvious includes, but I think outside of the 1-drops, their value is lacking.
6 months ago
Took a look over your deck, I like what your doing! However just as what hecubus333 mentioned, the CMC curve on the deck seems on the higher side. On a personal take, this was what my Teneb deck looked similar to before I tuned it for more of a competitive meta.
I also agree on your perspective on using unorthodox commanders for fun and tuning them competitively or as far as you can push them! For my thoughts on the matter, feel free to take it with a grain of salt!
These are good if you have multiple ways of abusing them or cheating them out but Ashen Rider and Angel of Despair cost way too much for these effects, I would consider only adding in one of these effects. Butcher of Malakir is another card that has way too high of a CMC when you are already running both Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos , it should be considered being cut. Wurmcoil Engine while being fun, is a win more card and also can be swapped for something that gives you advantage. While I love redundancy effects, Falkenrath Noble is also too high for the effects that are similar to the Blood Artist as well as Zulaport Cutthroat . Burnished Hart while a fan favorite just only ramps you when going competitive you have access to faster mana rocks which does it much better. For the last thought I have on creatures like what hecubus333 as for 6 CMC is does not much and there are alternative ways to get better card draw.
In your artifact section, I am not a fan of 3 CMC rocks unless they provide an extra ability like say for example, Chromatic Lantern or Commander's Sphere . The former provides color fixing and the latter card draw that doesn't require you to tap to activate. With that being said, I would take out the Orzhov Cluestone , Darksteel Ingot , as well as Strionic Resonator . In replacement mana rocks like Mana Vault , Mana Crypt , Chrome Mox , Mox Diamond , Grim Monolith can be used. Or if going for more on the budget friendly route, Thought Vessel , Everflowing Chalice , Sensei's Divining Top , and Scroll Rack are other cards to consider.
Unburial Rites as well as Victimize are decent but Necromancy and Dance of the Dead provide cheaper cost as well as more efficiency, in addition they can target your opponents creatures in their grave as well. Sorin, Grim Nemesis is good in a casual format, but as said before 6 CMC for card draw is really rough. Albeit I do like that on the resolution you do get CA right away so that's a plus.
Now for cards I would consider adding, here is a list you can consider:
- Tymna the Weaver
- Dark Confidant / Mindblade Render
- Viscera Seer / Carrion Feeder
- Toxic Deluge
- Vampiric Tutor
- Demonic Tutor
- Diabolic Intent
- Enlightened Tutor
- Dark Ritual
- Culling the Weak
- Leonin Relic-Warder
- Smothering Tithe
Those are just some off the top of my head I can think of. For Orzhov colors you want to try obtain as much Card Advantage (CA) as possible as that is what we are weak on as well as mana acceleration.
Hope that gives you some insight! Feel free to ask for any advice, help, or perspective! Down to help tuning decks!
8 months ago
I was also looking at the deck a bit more and got some ideas for my own, Isolation Cell seems like it can do work.
I have some other things you might find useful.
Command Beacon is a good land, I feel like you might get hate because of your commander. I also like to run Reliquary Tower all the time because you never know when you might run into the guy that is trying to make everyone draw a ton of cards that they can't keep.
Just a few ideas that I had. If you ever have questions for this deck just ask me! Also, if you ever want help with an EDH deck (or anything else) feel free to ask me, I'm always willing to help.
8 months ago
Hey EsperPanorama, thanks for the suggestions!
I'm starting to realize just how right you are. The deck does need a bit more to it for the late game. I run a Sadistic Hypnotist in my Teysa deck and it turns out I have another to spare!
I pulled Animation Module, Ghostly Prison, Chromatic Lantern, Reliquary Tower, and Darksteel Plate. I replaced them with Unburial Rites, Sadistic Hypnotist, Immortal Servitude, and Orzhov Cluestone. I don't have Reanimate, but I may drop Raise Dead for Whisper, Blood Liturgist
Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder is a great card that can pull his own quite well and I may have to find a slot for him.
Steeb on Black/White
9 months ago
Yo breh, I looked through what you have and here are some suggestions
Cards to switch out
It's pretty rare that you'll be hit with a target player effect at our table, so this won't see much use. Good for a sideboard though in case you're up against a burn or mill deck.
Dawn Charm is enough for a deck with as much protection from attacking as this deck, so you can drop Riot Control. Epicure of Blood is the second half of your instantly kill everyone in the game combo.
Cry of Contrition doesn't do much since it doesn't target a specific card. Karlov is just one mana cheaper, and with as much life gain as you will be getting, it's basically an endless source of exile effects and can double as a super strong attacker or blocker because it'll be gaining 6+ counters per round at a 3 person table.
Mill won't be a win condition for this deck, and by the time you deal enough damage to effectively mill someone, you probably will have already killed them. Also you could use some more mana rocks in this deck in general.
More reliable than Angelic Accord and can generate as many angels as you can pay for.
Obzedat does what 90% of your deck does, only he comes with the drawback of not being able to block if you actually use his ability. Teysa shuts down creature swamp completely and gives you tokens to block with.
Land of your choice for Reliquary Tower
These don't seem great at first but it lets you get the lands that you want, while simultaneously reducing your land base and deck size after playing them which raises the probability of drawing the cards you want.
Approach of the Second Sun (because it's an aesthetic win con)
Overwhelming Splendor if you want to be a real cunt
The reason this isn't listed as a necessity is because I'm pretty sure you already are adding it. Seriously tho add it
This straight up just prevents people from playing anything with toughness 2 or less and puts a gap of 4 between the power/toughness of your creatures and theirs, making all of your creatures viable attackers and blockers. Seriously this wins games
Orzhov Cluestone occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%