|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Iconic Masters (IMA)||Uncommon|
|Commander 2017 (C17)||Rare|
|Dragons of Tarkir (DTK)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
- Does an "elder dragon" count as a "dragon"?
- Does Dragon Tempest Trigger when Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker activates his +1 to become a dragon?
- Destroying Dragon Tempest When a Dragon Enters.
- Dragon tempest out, play serra ascendant with 30+ life. Does it have haste?
- Dragon Tempest and Descent of the Dragons
Whenever a creature with flying enters the battlefield under your control, it gains haste until end of turn.
Whenever a Dragon enters the battlefield under your control, it deals X damage to target creature or player, where X is the number of Dragons you control.
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Dragon Tempest Discussion
4 days ago
Palladia-Mors, the Ruiner has hexproof if she hasn't dealt damage, but is that any damage at all or damage to players? If somebody attacks me and I decide to block with Palladia-Mors, the Ruiner, does she lose hexproof from that interaction? Or if Dragon Tempest triggers and I chose a creature as a target, does she still lose hexproof? In that case, what's the point in even using her, since she can't do ANYTHING without losing hexproof?
1 week ago
Thanks for the feedback clayperce!
- I've actually looked into adding one of the Sarkhan planeswalkers to the deck since he's a bit of a dragon manic. But I'm currently looking at Sarkhan, Dragonsoul from the M19 planeswalker decks. It feels better to buy a complete deck with a planeswalker in it than buying a single card for the same price.
- Taurean Mauler looks amazing and I'm definitely going to replace Dragon Egg with it. Since Taurean Mauler is every creature type should it still trigger Dragon Tempest and benefit from Dragonlord's Servant right?
- I've looked over these lands in the past but I've refrained from adding them to the deck due to their price tag. I actually have a private "deck/card list" here on Tappedout that contains cards I've looked at in the past and liked, but not added to a deck for one reason or another and the lands you suggested are saved in that list. Although Game Trail wasn't that expensive so I'll consider adding a few of those. Temple of Abandon would probably be better than Timber Gorge if nothing else.
- I've been meaning to add some kind of legendary dragon to the deck but like you say I'm not sure either what I would take out. Although I think I would prefer Lathliss, Dragon Queen over Verix Bladewing as it would combo nicely with my favourite, Archwing Dragon.
Thanks again for the feedback and suggestions!
1 week ago
I play a little FNM, but I mostly play with some teachers and students at my school. This deck works by casting big bombs early in the game using Catalyst Elemental for quick mana and Dragonlord's Servant to make the dragons cheaper. The second most important element is the use of Dragon Tempest and Scourge of Valkas for removal so you will almost always be doing damage each turn. The best part is that you can play multiple of both which really stacks up the damage. The use of Sarkhan, Fireblood will assist in casting dragons and triggers the ability of Sarkhan's Whelp which will do some additional removal.
1 week ago
This deck looks really fun! A few quick thoughts:
- It'll wreck your budget, but Sarkhan, Fireblood is really good.
- IMO, Taurean Mauler is the best 3-drop Dragon in Modern.
- Since Evolving Wilds and Timber Gorge always enter tapped, they're pretty meh. If budget allows, upgrading to Game Trail or Karplusan Forest would make the deck run much more smoothly. Cinder Glade isn't as good, but would still be better than Wilds or Gorge. Alternately, you could save for January, when Ravnica Allegiance comes out with a (much less expensive) Stomping Ground reprint.
- Have you looked at Verix Bladewing? Not sure what I'd take out for them, but I like them in a Dragon Tempest deck, because the Kicker cost acts as "mana-flooded insurance".
Good luck (and good skill) with the deck!
2 weeks ago
2 weeks ago
Hey dude, I had a quick question for you if you don't mind. It's about changing some cards in the Ur-Dragon deck we've been working on.
Sakura-Tribe Elder and particularly Journey to Eternity Flip have been somewhat under-performing and in the case of Journey, just a dead card most of the time. So I was thinking about the following swap:
Journey to Eternity Flip - > Bladewing the Risen: Bladewing acts as an additional body so Scourge of Valkas and Dragon Tempest trigger more often, and I see everyone, including you, running it, so I assume it's powerful, and in this case at least as if not straight up better than Journey to Eternity Flip. Also, is there some other graveyard-y/recursion spell that's just straight up more powerful than either?
Thanks dude! I'm still working on what to submit for the Mono-white challenge, but hopefully I'll have something soon! :-P
3 weeks ago
Thanks for the kind comment.
Here's a rough guide / thought process I use when evaluating cards / combos / synergies:
1) Assumption: One player (possibly myself), will try and Combo on Turn 3/4, and generally by 5 at least
Realization: I don't have a lot of disruption, so will rely on Commanders built to prevent others and take advantage
A Teferi's Protection might buy me another turn to try and Combo or Eliminate the issue player.
2) Assumption: I'm Tier 3 (I truly believe Kaalia of the Vast is tier 2.5 built like this), yet seem to be a threat
Realization: Use their bias against them, they think I'm just Aggro/Pub Brawl, might leave me open here and there.
Yes, I'll still Master of Cruelties a Stax or Disruption or Tier 1 Commander, but...
3) Assumption: I'm not a Stax player, I'm trying to go fast too, don't be that guy
Realization: I have some Stax type plays, but I'm not a Stax player, whenever possible go for the win, often you win
4) Assumption: Razaketh, the Foulblooded almost always wins me the game.
Realization: Don't let others (like Animar, Soul of Elements) use him against me. Resolve and Win.
5) Assumption: I'm not going to output 40 x 3 (4-player pod assumed) = 120 by Turn 5
Realization: If I can do 40 damage by turn 5 and eliminate a player, and rely on others disruption, I can Combo on Turn 6/7
6) Evaluation: Does this card help me win the game by Turn 7? If no, then I usually exclude it
Is this card good, WITHOUT the other combo pieces? Example: Stranglehold is good on it's own, prevents win-cons and can stax (no searching) a Fetch land or Tutor. Maralen of the Mornsong provides an effective and lasting Synergy (won't say Combo, No more drawing for others), BUT Maralen of the Mornsong without a Stranglehold is not good WITHOUT the other combo piece. Maralen of the Mornsong can in fact give the win to the next player in turn.
Adarkar Valkyrie Evaluation:
1) She doesn't trigger with Kaalia of the Vast, because Adarkar Valkyrie enters tapped, also doesn't have haste, and requires to use. What that means is I have to wait 1 whole turn before she can be used vs. something like a Razaketh, the Foulblooded or Rune-Scarred Demon.
3) What are the other combo cards, and do they meet the test that they are good without Adarkar Valkyrie
Took me a long time to take Aurelia, the Warleader, can get into that discussion later.
Zealous Conscripts on it's own is also pretty good, he has Haste built in, can take an opponents permanents, can untap your permanents (like Adarkar Valkyrie or Sol Ring etc). He's not an A/D/D is his only down side, so with a CMC5 am I going to play him before Turn 5? Tough to say.
I'm probably going to tutor Restoration Angel because I can 1) Free cast with Kaalia of the Vast, 2) She is Instant speed (Flash), 3) She is CMC4 vs. Zealous Conscripts. So it becomes, do i need Zealous Conscripts. If I'm running Adarkar Valkyrie as well, then yes. Honestly Zealous Conscripts has been on the cusp for a long time, he is VERY good, probably better than Reveillark (who I almost never combo with), the only benefit to Reveillark is he brings back Grand Abolisher so I can actually pull off the combo without Disruption.
I'd almost always rather tutor Buried Alive or Reanimate or a missing piece, than a Adarkar Valkyrie. He really provides the same combo structure, but slower, same with Zealous Conscripts. If I'm hoping to just have a higher probability of drawing into a Zealous Conscripts to complete my combo I'm starting with an Assumption that isn't going to make my Turn 5 window usually. I need to Tutor/Win.
Combat Celebrant, Felidar Guardian, Sparring Mummy, Thornbite Staff, Village Bell-Ringer, Zealous Conscripts, Fiend Hunter, Karmic Guide, Lightning Crafter, Restoration Angel, Reveillark, Changeling Hero, Changeling Berserker all work with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, some need Sac, many don't.
Not sure if I answered your Zealous Conscripts question, but the best answer I can give is, I don't need him, I don't want to draw him, and he just does the job of Restoration Angel. Certainly you need alternatives, incase of Exile or Removal, I decided on Reveillark because he has other upside (downside is needs a Sac outlet), but Zealous Conscripts is quite reasonable and has utility on his own so I like him probably will make his way back in, at a higher CMC than someone like Village Bell-Ringer though who has no utility on his own, but IS turn 5 probable, but without Buried Alive probably neither works anyway, so why not just Restoration Angel and win?
The truth is any of them are viable options, it's about the supporting cards, the "wheel of support" you put around each of them, if there's multiple synergies then it's always good to have. Remember though, you only need to Combo once to win, the reality is, if your Disrupted, someone else will likely combo before you get a second chance anyway in cEDH. In standard EDH, you may have the time to draw cards into a Zealous Conscripts or hard cast a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker but probably not in cEDH.
Adarkar Valkyrie was in, she didn't work with Kaalia of the Vast and I never tutored Adarkar Valkyrie, and it needed Haste (Lightning Greaves/Dragon Tempest) and in most cases needed a Sac Outlet, so it ended up getting cut when Aurelia, the Warleader left. Adarkar Valkyrie I just found too difficult to manage, and 1 turn too slow.
I will say, if you are running Adarkar Valkyrie and Zealous Conscripts, definitely run Faithless Looting, maybe even Gamble. This differs than something like a Reanimator, If i could have more Reanimate (also use Animate Dead, Yawgmoth's Will which I view as CMC2 because I usually have a Fetch land to recur) then I LIKE drawing into those. When I draw a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker in my opening hand, I always Mulligan, and when I draw him in play I really really really regret having Faithless Looting out of the deck because I can't tutor it, and now I'm hoping to tutor a Goblin Bombardment and Reanimate a Buried Alive | Karmic Guide + Reveillark. In this situation a Zealous Conscripts isn't helping you anyway. On occasion I draw Restoration Angel but then I Buried Alive : Grand Abolisher and then Reanimate Karmic Guide then Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker then Grand Abolisher then Flash cast Restoration Angel and have the Grand Abolisher pretty much guaranteeing me the win. It's definetely higher CMC to hard was him, but still less than Zealous Conscripts.
My deck is still a work in progress though, I wish I had more time to play and really advance it with playtesting, but In theory, MOST of the time I would prefer a Tutor to another instance of a card I can tutor that is worse. Like Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are the same but CMC1 more, but I don't run Utter End because instead I draw a tutor, and search for Anguished Unmaking if that's what I really need, otherwise I tutor Reanimate or Buried Alive and go for the win.
I'm always testing the new guys too, sometimes they roar, sometimes they fail. Razaketh, the Foulblooded for sure, is the best (sometimes Iona, Shield of Emeria) in a while, If I could have all Razaketh, the Foulblooded that would be very cool.
Another thing I've learned, I built Kaalia of the Vast because I liked Gisela, Blade of Goldnight and Griselbrand (I really miss him, pretty angry about that one), but try not to be attached to certain cards, even if you like it, make sure it properly synergies. Stranglehold + Maralen of the Mornsong was my favorite for so long, I would always Tutor a Baneslayer Angel first to counter the damage (Lyra Dawnbringer would probably be the target now), but had to let it go because Maralen of the Mornsong couldn't keep up. Same with Liliana Vess. Even Aurelia, the Warleader, I won a draft event with him, so valued him highly, but I just didn't have the right supporting cards in there for him.
The next A/D/D I'm going to try is Archfiend of Despair, I just don't know how to take advantage of his second ability properly, I mean him and a Gisela, Blade of Goldnight obviously, he does double my damage, meaning 120 damage is now 60 damage so makes that a potential strategy, but still not sure how to do 60 by turn 5/6 to 3 different targets, but perhaps, have to test him. I feel Archfiend of Despair has more upside than Sower of Discord because of his Lifegain prevention, but together the 2 are ok, I'm just not sure, he reduces 120 to 80 where Archfiend of Despair reduces it to 60. I will note, if you build other Loss of Life into the deck, like Liliana's Caress and Dragon Mage and Wheel of Fortune type abilities, both Sower of Discord and Archfiend of Despair, but even then Sower of Discord is "Damage", remember, "Damage" causes "Loss of Life" but doesn't work the other way, "Loss of Life" isn't "Damage". Hmm probably will not even test Sower of Discord, CMC6 for 6/6, no Flample, and no immediate threat/ETB off Kaalia of the Vast other than potentially 8 damage (Sower of Discord 6 + Kaalia of the Vast 2) is outside my current strategy too much.
I can win on Turn 1: Swamp + Mana Crypt + Buried Alive and a Chrome Mox (and a card to Imprint) + Reanimate, is an example, but it rarely happens. There are some other Janky ways with Sol Ring and Ancient Tomb and stuff too, but not consistently. Always looking for ways to improve here. (CMC1 Reanimate or High Mana Conversion Stones)
Turn 2, there's quite a few different ways to get there, including Kaalia of the Vast attacking, usually needs a Razaketh, the Foulblooded in hand to pull the combo pieces, mana rocks, and Goblin Bombardment because usually Combo AFTER the combat phase, so the Infinite Haste Angels don't really help me out that much.
Turn 3/4 is really where I want to combo, and am looking to build further consistency, like Gamble or Beseech the Queen (maybe but it only tutors Reanimate usually for , so where does the for Reanimate come from). Does Zealous Conscripts or Adarkar Valkyrie check this box? Not really, which is probably why they are out. But honestly, I still have a bunch of junk, like Reveillark, Gisela, the Broken Blade maybe, Lord of the Void, Teferi's Protection it's really dumb this card doesn't have Split Second, Boros Charm too situational, see lots of stuff that could be Zealous Conscripts.
What I really wish for, 1) A good A/D/D that has Goblin Bombardment built-into it, like a Murderous Redcap of A/D/D, 2) More CMC1 Reanimate, 3) More CMC1 or CMC2 Tutors, I'll checkout your deck but if you don't have Tainted Pact it is CRITICAL to finding solutions, although means your lands are $1,000,000 but luckily no so HEY still cheaper than a Volcanic Island. 4) More effective mana rocks. I've looked at Mox Diamond a million times, can't decide if it helps/hurts in the average case (not just the Turn 1 case), like as a before Turn 5.
Rakdos the Defiler has been my friend, when I'm not doing well he often helps me out lol. Dance of the Dead is a possiblity, because it doesn't matter that Karmic Guide is tapped, but Karmic Guide is pro black so the interaction sucks even more (already sucks with Animate Dead but the triggers work).
I'll check out your deck a little later, and provide any feedback I can.
Hopefully, somewhere in this rambling I answered your questions.
PS: I hate that Kess, Dissident Mage (and some others) can win on Turn 0, win before it's even their turn, that sucks!
3 weeks ago
How competitive are you trying to be? Would you prefer to play with what you like, or are you trying to work up to playing in competitive tournaments? Here's a list to take a look into for Skred dragons that won an open:
A couple points I want to say is that I disagree with what people are saying about Blood Moon. It is an amazing card that can completely hose some decks. It can seem like a wasted card sometimes (mono-colored decks, they fetch their basics before it's played, ect). However, look at the list I sent you and let me know just how competitive you want to be. I may have better suggestions after that.
Being that your playing big dragons, you will probably need to go to 23 or 24 lands. One of the biggest problems you will have is keeping a hand. Dragons' weakness is that you will most likely only be playing one a turn, and you have no early game presence. One of the ways around that is to play early game removal in the form of Lightning Bolt, Skred (if you play Snow-Covered Mountain), Draconic Roar and Anger of the Gods or any variants of those (Sweltering Suns, Kozilek's Return, ect).
Another problem you have is if you hand becomes empty, you start top-decking. Red is not known for drawing well. Some of the ways around this are Relic of Progenitus, Mind Stone, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Chandra, Pyromaster and of course the best thing for dragons Sarkhan, Fireblood.
Dragon Tempest is a spicy include. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I like the thought of it. I think it would be interesting to playtest. One of the reasons that makes it obsolete is that the most playable dragons already have haste.
As far as dragons go, the ones I think that are the most competitive for modern are Stormbreath Dragon, Thunderbreak Regent, Thundermaw Hellkite, and potentially Glorybringer. I know that some people are saying that Glorybringer is too slow, and the exert is something that isn't worthwhile in modern. I disagree. The 4 damage has become much more relevant with the newer decks. Granted, I wouldn't play 4, but one or two may be viable. Also, I believe Stormbreath Dragon is superior to Thundermaw Hellkite. I play my own version of Skred red, and I cannot think of any situation where the 1 damage was more relevant than the pro-white. I have won A LOT of games because my opponent's Path to Exile was as dead card because of Stormbreath Dragon.
I think you should take into account all the suggestions thus far and remake your deck, proxy (or buy) and playtest. Go to your LGS on whatever day they play modern and start trying your deck. That will show you what works and what doesn't. If you have any questions just ask. Here's my Skred deck that I've been playing for over 6 years now. This list isn't the same list I started (I've gone through many transformations), but it is a decent competitive mono-red list. I'm not dragon specific though.
Sorry if this was too long. Just laying my initial thoughts.