|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Duel Decks: Elspeth vs. Kiora (DDO)||Rare|
|Born of the Gods (BNG)||Rare|
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Return all creatures to their owners' hands except for Krakens, Leviathans, Octopuses, and Serpents.
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Whelming Wave Discussion
4 weeks ago
I'm concerned that this deck actually has no way to win.
1) Lets say you're up against a deck that's already willingly running islands - that's probably going to be a problem cause they'll just cast what they want and win (Boil goes some way to slow them down, but considering you need them to mill their whole deck it won't stop them).
2) Best case scenario, you're against a deck with no blue. They'll have somewhere between 20-24 lands. Including Tec-Edge, you only have 13 ways to shut down their lands (I didn't include Boil cause it's just killing already disabled lands). With no way to speed up the mill process, they'll eventually be able to play lands you can't islandify (or blow up) - and then you lose.
3) This gets worse as your only real removal is Porphyry Nodes, which is easy to work around - all your other interaction is just temporary stall (Remand, Vapor Snag), which would be fine if you could actually turn off your opponents ability to play cards - but as mentioned before you can't.
So, imo currently this deck probably only ever does OK against decks that run sooo many fetches that you actually outnumber them in island-making cards. Burn probably gets close to this, but not a lot else.
You need a way to ensure everything gets flooded. Welcome to Quicksilver Fountain. If you want to splash some cash, you can combo it with the expensive Oboro, Palace in the Clouds (each turn target your Oboro, then return it to your hand before resolution and replay it)
You could potentially go down the "complete a-hole" route of stopping your opponent even being able to play the game. Cards like Boomerang let you bounce lands (there's also lots of other cards that do this too), while Isochron Scepter will let you do so indefinitely. This means (assuming you have these in your opening hand) your opponent will never be able to have more than 2-3 lands in play. And you should be able to flood that many lands to oblivion easily.
I would recommend ditching cards that don't immediately let you take control of the board. So Visions of Beyond, Dizzy Spell, and probably also Amulet of Vigor (you don't need the speed of amulet if everything's shut down anyway). Those slots are probably better suited for removal and/or some cruel control. Whelming Wave might be worth including to save your bacon too, against decks that can play a lot before you can get established.
Boil seems like a sideboard option only, against blue-heavy decks. I'd suggest most of your sideboard should be focused on switching game-plan if your opponent is playing blue or the land-control strategy just isn't going to work (because there will be match-ups where it will just not be viable). Might be worth side-boarding Choke also (in fact, Choke is probably a stronger card than Boil, depending on the situation).
1 month ago
2 months ago
Shrieking Drake can be cast over and over again to get those slumber counters off fast.
Whelming Wave should clear the board of everything but your boss.
2 months ago
Reality Shift is the Blue Swords to Plowshares and Patron Wizard turns all my wizards into Force Spikes. I can use Tidespout Tyrant to bounce anything and I think I have Evacuation in the most current build in addition to Whelming Wave. Blue is always going to be light on removal, and playing counterspells in EDH as removal is foolhardy imo. There’s too many opponents and too many spells of concern. Reusable stuff like Patron Wizard is far superior and counterspells are mostly useful for stopping a combo or protecting your own, nothing else.
2 months ago
i built a similar deck a while ago (around $30 budget) Tatyova, Spellinging Druid so lesions i learned you very quickly get a ridiculous amount of mana on the field and card advantage isn't a problem so you need big payoff cards to use this mana, the best/most fun options i found where
lastly in the end i went for a more spell slinging theme to the deck (which is not to everyone's taste i know) but to try to add in every "fetch land to battlefield" effect you can add in as they are all cantrips in the deck as well as ramp, evey small cretures that ramp like Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf are worth including as if you top deck these late game the are not a dead draw as they let you draw a card and thin the deck of lands.
some other less budget cards that are worth including are Ulvenwald Hydra, Solemn Simulacrum, Kozilek, the Great Distortion, Tireless Tracker, Thassa, God of the Sea, Genesis Wave, Greenwarden of Murasa, Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle
3 months ago
whalen147 I really like Thassa, God of the Sea in here instead of Kaseto, Orochi Archmage, that's a great suggestion. The Whelming Wave suggestion is also good. The whole time I was building this deck I considered slotting it but wasn't sure if it was worthwhile, I'm not gonna run it in any other deck though haha. I had Fireshrieker in here originally cut cut it for Tezzeret, Artifice Master. Great suggestions man. Much appreciated
3 months ago
I also feel like Aethersquall Ancient will end up being lackluster due to the fact itll take so many turns before you can use the energy counter ability. Whelming Wave would do work in this deck as a replacement.
Also, another artifact you may like that gives double strike is Fireshrieker.
Love the deck, name is great too lol +1
3 months ago
Commonly control loses card advantage in 1 to 1 trades, because there are two opponents who didn't lose cards, but you did, if for each trade you make, you draw a card, the trade is a 1 for nothing. It is straight gravy. Honestly it is a 2 for nothing, since you got a drake. 2 for nothing is absurdly powerful.
The issue is blue doesn't have the best tutors, and that will mean you won't get this level of gravy often, but we can try to optimize the list to survive until you can, or until we find another card drawing engine.
There may be a problem here that you have noticed, you still spend the mana of each card you cast. We have to make sure your answers are very cheap for you to win. I want 0 mana spells, 1 mana spells, and 2 mana spells as your answers. If they are any higher, they have to either:
A: be castable for a alternate cost to make it cheaper (Force of Will, delve spells, etc.)
If all of that is done, we need to talk card draw, outside of engines, engines are great, but we can't just run engines, they are slow, clunky, and few-and far between. You run plenty of the next point, cantrips. Let us take the best option, Brainstorm. It is absurdly powerful, one mana to dig 3 cards, at instant speed, using up mana that otherwise would have been wasted, if you held up mana on the opponents turn. It helps find the answer or counterspell you need, all in response to the Food Chain you can't let resolve.
You run a number of cantrips, even some bad ones I would switch, like Telling Time, it may look like an Anticipate, but being forced to top a card sucks. I would run Anticipate over it any day, but you already run that, so toss in a Preordain, I promise, it is worth it tenfold. Quicken would be another drop, toss in Kindred Discovery over it or something.
Cantrips are nice, but good card draw, like Fact or Fiction, you know, a way to get more cards in your hand than you had, they do cost mana. 4 mana is topping it off, and it has to be instant speed for me to consider it at 4 mana, but FoF fits the bill. Windfall should be run, as the control player, before an engine hits, you need to spend more cards than your opponents do to keep threats of the field. Windfall gets you the new hand, and tosses out whatever cards your opponent tutored out.
The trick with sweepers it to hit as much as possible, and be 4-2 mana, or do other great things. Cyclonic Rift is an example of a great removal spell, that occasionally can double as a sweeper, but shouldn't be held back for that effect. Whelming Wave is pretty good at sweeping opponents, I would drop Inundate for it.
Most of your creatures I could drop for more tutors and answers and card draw Solemn Simulacrum isn't worth it, as it doesn't have flash, it wastes a turn and doesn't win you the game, you could lose it if an opponent combos out because you couldn't answer it. Toss in a Mana Leak or something in it's place.
Others I would suggest dropping for basically the same reason are as follows: Archaeomancer, Burnished Hart, Chasm Skulker, Docent of Perfection Flip, Duplicant, Fatespinner, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Phyrexian Metamorph, Portal Mage, Sower of Temptation, Thing in the Ice Flip, Trinket Mage, Vedalken Shackles, Mindslaver and Runechanter's Pike.
All of these drops will allow for more space for answers, card draw, and a little bit more ramp, such as Fellwar Stone, Sky Diamond, Coldsteel Heart, etc. More answers like Pongify, Mindbreak Trap, Snap, and other answers can allow for exponentially more ways to stop your opponents.
Not all answers are great though, Boomerang is a card I would drop for a better hate-piece like Pithing Needle, Grafdigger's Cage, or any other decent hate-piece, like Silent Arbiter for a meta in which beat-down is regular, or you see a lot of Tymna the Weaver lists. Damping Sphere against storm, or whatever else you need.
In conclusion, I'll probably write up a rough list for this style of game, and good luck!