|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Explorers of Ixalan (EO2)||None|
|Tempest Remastered (TPR)||Mythic Rare|
|2010 Core Set (M10)||Mythic Rare|
|Starter 1999 (S99)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
Target player takes an extra turn after this one.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
|Have (16)||the.beanpole , Benniator , Jauntu , Dimarx , , Wazerwifle , Pelli , NOGzFTW , tangrams , TehDelta , lolpatrol , mziter501 , abby315 , itheoryz , Sav547 , JohnBeaman|
|Want (43)||GrandeKhan , Blue_Otaku_No.1 , Kaedom , RoninH3RO , SlickWizard , joschang01 , Daenyth , gamerhat , primusinterpares , CryAll , Seetigermage , Plaxcaster55 , Nerubian , Quigo , 1337_Nerd , marsp44 , zenroc , matt.angelle , whatismyusername , xpsychovampx , upgraded , snowmaster55555atgmaildotcom , Jrops , nopopon , CastleSiege , DeifiedExile , WhipJr , SirFowler , aramlet , doppelrogue , NobleSlay3r , Forward_to_Dawn , jaceatog , Rathe , notsaying , Ilusionist1213 , AstroAA , shoebox , Gypsyhatten , relyks16 , Monduck , Xelgion , il-JumperMT|
Time Warp Discussion
3 days ago
@lamocomp1 I appreciate your enthusiasm for the deck already.
First of all: Sleep is a new addition to the deck, so I don't have any experience with the card. Someone in my playgroup played it last week and I totaly forgot about the powerful effect of this card in multiplayer. ATM I swapped it for Equilibrium, which is a far more lategame-card. Sleep fits more into the tempo playstyle of the deck. I like the functions of letting you go through for 1-2 combats at one single player and protecting you from the strongest boardstate (which also opens the doors for other players, who are interessted in killing the specific opponent). But that's just in theory.
The thing with Prickly Boggart or even Vampire Cutthroat, which are obviously worse evasive creatures, is Notorious Throng. I just wanted to be sure, that I can get the Prowl-cost active any time. But after a few games, I already came to the point, where these guys stayed back, because they weren't evasive anymore. Also Notorious Throng is most of the time bad at generating tokens, because the aggressive amount of damage, the deck wants to provide, is lifeloss from our commander. It functioned more like a bad Time Warp. Maybe I'll try alternative cards for the Throng, so I can fix my evasive guys, because I won't need rogues anymore.
I'm honestly not a big fan of all the cmc2 dorks. Yes, they have the better utility effects and synergize better with the Ninjutsu - no doubt. But I want to swarm my board with little evasive guys much more than this "enter the battlefield-shenanigans". So the difference between cmc1 and cmc2 is a lot for the deck, because for 2 mana I am more likely to cast 2 creatures. The bigger the evasive board, the bigger is the blowout with triggers, like under a Arcane adaption or similar. Also Opposition and definitely Inkfathom Witch benefit.
I totaly agree with you on Looter il-Kor. It's gonna be changed into a Nightveil Sprite after the release of Guilds of Ravnica. I also think about playing the new split cards due to it's high total converted mana cost. The owl-plan is very innovative and funny with Yuriko. Though I'm unsure if I really want to cut other creatures. The deck isn't very interactive and has problems to disrupt high value lategame-cards or combos, most commander decks are try to reach out for. So my thought was to put pressure on the opponents as high and early as possible. So the amount of evasive 1-drops effectively secure me a turn 2 attacking unblocked Yuriko. More 2 drops would slow down the game-plan while making the deck more versatile. I'm not already interessted into that right now, while my first attempt worked out very juicy so far.
The only 2 drop I'm repine with since building the deck is indeed Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive, because of making Yuriko and itself unblockable. I didn't miss the effect that much in the games so far. Cavern Harpy (which is very good in my opinion) and the other guys like Shrieking Drake are fullfilling a similar use. You can't cast them early, that's the drawback, but later you reactivate Yuriko (or other Ninjas) with them, while beeing evasive themselves. But maybe I'll trade Faerie Impostor with Tetsuko (because it's the worst one of these, because it doesn't combo as good with Vela the Night-Clad or in the past with Equilibrium, which remains on the "Maybeboard"].
I watched your list and also liked your ideas. I think yours is more a control-heavy build with the ramp and sweepers. Dowsing Dagger Flip on the other hand sounds very fun to me, because it is a sustained and effective ramp (and also so much flavor...). I'd keep this one in mind - maybe I can find space for this one.
3 weeks ago
I mean, I run Altar of the Brood, but I would never turn one it unless I can turn 2-3 win because I did. Too many decks abuse the yard, imagine the Karador dredge deck, you mill them 5, and suddenly they got a free Time Warp on you. Yeah, great card.
Really, too many decks abuse the yard, and milling them, unless they use a tutor to top, or they are out of cards in library, doesn't hurt them. If they have any unearth or flashback cards, they can gain value. Normally, milling to graveyard (as opposed to exile) isn't something that is directly bad in EDH.
3 weeks ago
Well, first thank you for taking the time to look over my list a bit and I'm sorry for taking this long to answer. I'm currently quite busy and I'm the last person who has a say in tailoring my schedule at least for a weeks or so.
Now, onto the matter at hand!
cycle lands - I'm glad we're on the same page with these. The Loam cycling engine isn't always online, but when it is it's quite awesome. I'm never sorry to see these because at best they are cantrips for my engine, usually they're just cantrips, and in a pinch they're my t1/2 land drop.
fetches - those are already on my list. Misty Rainforest being the highest priority because I'd play it in all 3 of my active decks (people let me proxy a card in a deck if I own a copy, so cards like this are a solid buy for me). After that it will be either a Scalding Tarn or Verdant Catacombs, depending on which one I find first for a good price (Tarn would be playable in all 3 of my decks, but Catacombs would work better in Tas while not being playable in my Kefnet deck). I'm hesitant to plan beyond that because I'm a student and my budget surely won't allow me to buy a marginally useful card like BW fetch or, for me, useless RW fetch.
cycling duals - I can only play one in here, though I'd love to test more. I tested one that I can play and it was meh. It costs twice as many to cycle compared to other cyclabe lands and its 2c identity was only marginally useful. I replaced it with a better land. But I could be persuaded to give it another shot, but instead of a nonland card, because it's more of a cantrip in my eyes than it is a land.
Urborg & RTower - both have insane ceilings, but share a common problem; they don't help my early game. My manabase is kinda tight right now and even though it currently does what I want it to do for the most part, I'm scared that these might imbalance it. Although I would play urborg if I played Palinchron, which I actually do own. And I have a friend who can "borrow" me Urborg (he won't sell it to me, but he would lend it to me long-term so yep...). More on the Urborg matter a bit later.
reanimator package - it's one of the things I'm strongly considering. My 75%-ish meta demands more investments and these might be just the thing. However here comes another issue, that subtheme is in no way related to my wincon or to the rest of the deck. How do I fix that? Well obviously I simply kick out Dramatic Reversal and Isochron Scepter for Palinchron and Urborg! These have much better synergy with the reanimator package and if I were to go that way, I'd do it like this. One of the reasons your list appeals to me is that you're playing quite a few good control cards and a tight and, seemingly, effective reanimator package. So one fo the things I'm looking to deduct from this correspondence is a set of changes that would turn my scepter Tasigur into a Reanimator Tasigur if I ever wanted to pull the trigger. Getting the cards is no problem honestly, maybe Reanimate itself will be a bit tough to find, but the real problem lies in finding a good set of one for one changes to make the transformation.
Tolaria West - I like the effect. As a matter of fact I love the card in my Kefnet deck. However in here I prefer to play Crop Rotation for its instant speed and lower mana cost, enabling me to hold up open mana and stop shenanigans instant speed. Bonus points if I pull the trigger and add Reanimator/Palinchron package! It has an upside if one is playing Pact of Negation tho. You are, I am not. More on that later.
Force of Will/Pact of Negation - I just got myself a Force couple of months ago for my Kefnet deck. The only reason I didn't include it here is that I'm afraid my blue cards density is too low. It might be a silly prejudice though. How does it work for you? What blue density would you say is the minimal requirement for it to be online often enough to be relevant? And pact I don't currently have. If I come across a cheap copy, I will purchase one. ATM it's one of those cards that wouldn't chase or overpay even by a cent because even though it's neat, there are more relevant buys I'd like to make.
Phyrexian Arena - honestly, the card has been good to me. I get the point many people raise about it, but for me it works because my meta is often slow enough. Although I admit it's floor is far lower than one might expect at the first glance and I'd be willing to remove it for a better card.
Time Warp - it's cute but works fine for me, it saved my butt a considerable number of times because I can spin it a few times preparing for a combo turn. I could see it removed, none of my remaining 2 decks would complain. Not unlike PArena; the card has been good to me, but admittedly its floor is awful and if I get presented with a better card, it can go.
Go for the Throat - a solid piece of creature removal, but likely the worst one I currently have. It can go for something better.
Memory's Journey - this is a flex spot honestly and this one hasn't been good so far. Either it's too narrow or I'm incapable of using it right; it might be a combination of the two. And the fact that I'm struggling to find an English copy more than I thought I would doesn't help. SO this is the easiest cut to make IMHO.
Notion Thief - ... I can't believe I forgot about this guy, how did that happen? Ok, admittedly it's floor is low, especially in my meta where crazy draws aren't really a usual thing, but it's probably flexible enough for me to give it a shot.
Languish/Yahenni's Expertise - I myself thought Expertise would be better. But in testing there were two significant problems; 1) that 4th point of toughness mattered a lot more than I thought. Maybe it was a few bad days at the LGS but man did it hose me a few times. I can't remember the exact situations, but it was a recurring issue. 2) a large chunk of my cheap spells are interaction cards I'd like to hold onto. Dream casts with it casting Search for Azcanta Flip or Rhystic Study did happen, but more often than not it was just a dork (just to help me recover from it), a rock or...sometimes nothing. It ended up being much less of a factor than it seemed. My sample size wasn't even significant, maybe half a dozen-10 games, but the results were consistent and when I recently got a hold of Damnation, instead of Languish Expertise got out. However I'm still not that confident on this change and it's one I could easily reverse to have another round of testing to double-check how it does.
Again, I'm glad you looked it over. It means a lot to me to discuss this deck with pilots at the same power level but with more experience with the deck.
So I have 2 more direct questions for you;
1) could you recommend a set of changes for "transformation" of this build into a reanimator one? Using Scepter, Reversal and as many of the cards we agreed that could go out as you deem necessary?
2) why did you take out Disallow? Admittedly, I haven't used its Stifle mode for months now in neither of my 2 deck playing it, but though Kefnet can pay for that utility, I'm starting to doubt its value in here. Could Trickbind or Stifle be better because of their simple cost that was paid for by the loss of utility or should I exclude it altogether? I know this isn't a simple single decision, but I'm interested in your insight since you made the jump in one direction.
3 weeks ago
berryjon, aggro as you describe it - more midrange than full aggro - seems to be quite true for every other archetype. With 100 cards and few ways to mitigate the singleton nature of the format, every deck is forced to upscale. You cannot reliably combo off with infinite turns on turn 1 in this format, or turn 3 or 4 for that matter.
For example, an infinite turns combo deck might run combos like Panoptic Mirror + Time Warp, which would be laughed at in a modern event; but because both pieces do something on their own and it increases your consistency, you run them. Or a card like Expropriate, which is quite powerful. Sure you can play like a legacy deck and run Omniscience and Show and Tell, but you only get one copy - you have to dedicate mana, turns and deck space to cards that find those pieces.
TLDR: Not only aggro decks are more midrange.
4 weeks ago
Through testing with my own list I’ve found that Final Parting is an absolute powerhouse. If I already have some combo pieces like a Aminatou, the Fateshifter + Oath of Teferi in play I’ll put Archaeomancer in my hand and Time Warp into my grave. If I’m low on resources I’ll put Karmic Guide into my hand and Archaeomancer into the grave. Return arch, return parting, and probably tutor for more combo pieces. (I didn’t notice you’re not playing Karmic, but recommend that as well.)
Additionally, Possessed Skaab can be worse and better than Salvager of Secrets. Skaab costs UB instead of UU, is a 3/2 instead of a 2/2, can return creatures too instead of just instants/sorceries, and when it dies it exiles, but it can still be blinked.
4 weeks ago
Hey, so I had a bit of a closer look at your list and I have a few suggestions that may or may not be useful.
As we mentioned in the comments section on my deck, going down a few of the weaker lands would be good, especially because you are going the scepter route to infinite mana. I think you really need to add some more rocks to make this more viable. I think I would lose the cycling lands first (Barren Moor & Tranquil Thicket. I understand the utility and them being ok for fuelling delve but they could easily go. As for the rest of the mana base there are obviously some missing fetches that would really help, especially if you're running a loam package (Crucible of Worlds has been really great in my deck in the last few months). With the extra fetches you might also consider running more fetchable lands also, such as the new dual cycling lands. Cabal coffers would also be good here considering you run Urborg, although this is less of a pressing matter if you don't run Palinchron. I also always run Reliquary Tower as I frequently end up with a tonne of cards and this really helps. Finally, Tolaria West can tutor up any land and I always find this handy!
We also mentioned running some reanimation and again this is a great addition in my experience. I would go up Entomb, Reanimate and Animate Dead and then choose a few big creatures that would make great targets. I currently favour Nezahal, Primal Tide and Consecrated Sphinx. I also use this to recur my combo but that doesn't apply here.
Otherwise most of the tweaks are really a matter of budget. Upgrading the tutors and counterspells etc. I only quite recently managed to get Force of Will and Pact of Negation, but having free counterspells makes a huge difference!
There a few cards in the list I am unconvinced by, but maybe you have particular reasons for them:
Phyrexian Arena - this is way too slow and doesn't do anything as it comes down.
Time Warp - seems unnecessary to me.
Go for the Throat - there could definitely be something stronger in this slot.
Memory's Journey - again this doesn't feel that strong.
I would also consider running Notion Thief, this is really strong to control other players from comboing off and drawing their decks. It's also incredible to cast in response to your own Windfall... It's hard for your opponents to come back from that.
How have you found Languish? I had it in before but quite quickly moved to Yahenni's Expertise, it still worked to wipe the board when facing down overbearing creature swarms, obviously you miss some of the bigger creatures but they are easier to keep in check with some spot removal. The added benefit of a free spell sold it for me and I have never missed that extra -1/-1. Something to consider at least, maybe you more often play against creature decks where that extra -1 is essential.
Anyway the list looks really good and a few tweaks will certainly knock up the power level some more! Hope this has been a little helpful.
All the best!
1 month ago
First of all, thank you for your Primer, it’s been a great help! Very inspirational piece of deck tech!
I’ve recreated most of the deck with some minor changes.
I’ve cut out Utter End in favour of Sorin, Grim Nemesis as a redundant effect in Aminatou + Kaya + Guardian + Panharmonicon/Oath of Teferi combo. He also provides extra draws, something the deck struggles with, in my opinion.
I reduced Islands to three, adding Halimar Depths. Having hardly any Turn 1 plays, I think it’s worth keeping a slightly riskier hand and re-arranging the top to hit the missing land. If you have a fetchland in hand, you can t2 reshuffle easily. I also found it helpful when I was running out of gas.
I decided to include Eldrazi Displacer instead of Ixidron, so also had to tweak manabase a bit. Swapping Concealed Courtyard and Darkslick Shores for Caves of Koilos and Underground River respectively brought the deck to a satisfying number of colourless sources. Displacer does not disappoint! I was able to pull of Felidar Guardian + Gonti, Lord of Luxury tonight, without Aminatou, the Fateshifter and Panharmonicon or Oath of Teferi. Instead, I had a Peregrine Drake and five lands, including Winding Canyons and Reliquary Tower. Took a while to explain to the table it’s a win lol!
I do not own an Imperial Seal so decided to go more flickery way and added Brago, King Eternal. The deck isn’t that much value oriented though, so I will probably add Rune-Scarred Demon instead as I found myself struggling to find answers at times.
Also swapped Angel of Despair for a cheaper disruption creature – Reflector Mage. More likely to get cast with Winding Canyons. I know it only hits creatures, but I didn’t find myself in the need to heavily disrupt non-creature strategies just yet.
Perplexing Chimera is still on my list. I like how you can get it back with Aminatou’s -1, but opponents will slow roll their spells in order to get rid of it or will simply wipe the board. Considering putting Draining Whelk as it’s a more reactive disruption that I can later flicker with Eldrazi Displacer or bounce back with Venser.
Insidious Dreams is proving to be disappointing as oftentimes I don’t have enough acceptable cards to pitch to it. Might go with Personal Tutor or Mystical Teachings instead. The first one if I can afford to slow roll Entreat the Dead or can use Aminatou’s +1 to put Time Warp in my hand, provided Archaeomancer or Salvager of Secrets is on the field already. The second can be good to fetch Venser, Shaper Savant, a counterspell or any other instant tutor effect. Flashback can prove useful too.
Thanks for sharing your deck with us, hopefully you’ll find my playtesting experience useful, too!
1 month ago
I don't know about your meta but mine HATES it when I play Narset because she basically swings and takes infinite turns. That being said I would suggest Fervor Generator Servant Time Warp and Scroll Rack. I would also add Fury of the Horde as it allows you to win if no one responds. Here's how it works:
Attack with narset hit Enter the Infinite (which isnt hard when you have tutors) Grab your deck and put Omniscience on bottom Cast Fury of the Horde exile Omniscience and cast it cast all your extra turns Beacon of Tomorrow shuffles in (but its your only card) next turn, draw beacon cast beacon Repeat for infinite turns
So you dont need fury of the horde if you have the mana to cast an extra attack/turn card but it basically guarantees the win. Like I said though, my friends hate playing against it so it doesnt see much play