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Combos Browse all
Mox Sapphire Discussion
1 month ago
This combo is super nuts, but in your t1 win, how are you casting Kinnan with only colorless mana? You need GU.
3 months ago
jeacaveo To specifically answer you, I play weekly in a very competitive meta at my LGS in paper. I play against Consultation Hulk Najeela, Gitfrog, TnT Flash Hulk (now Fish Hulk), Brago Stax, Yisan, Doomsday Breya, and all kinds of other stuff. I am aware of the format, and the meta. I have played Azami and Naru Meha and Baral as mono blue decks, no I don't have lists for them on tappedout. Either way, I don't really care if you gatekeep me from "competitive" as long as you respond to my critiques or link cards. Which you didn't. So much along chump, your comment was worthless too.
AlwaysSleepy This list hasn't been updated for 5 months. You can speak about how the meta has changed with the coming of Oracle and how this deck brilliantly handles it, but that doesn't really mean anything to this list because it hasn't been updated. If it handles Oracle, it is by no intentional omission or addition from the brewers. I know you guys absolutely love to claim these brewers are 10/10 never before seen genius brewers, but ayyy lmao I'm going to need you guys to reel it in. This is what I mean when I talk about idol worship and people being mindless. This list is 5 months old. It wasn't good then. It still isn't good now. Defending this to your last breath is a weird hill to die on mate.
Basalt + Rings being considered unplayable is certainly understandable. Its in across two cards with another to start the combo for total. Grim + Power artifact is a half that at . Neither of the combos have an outlet themselves, and both of them produce colorless mana. I'm not arguing that the rings combo is more efficient, it definitely isn't. I'm arguing that Power Artifact is a 100% dead draw outside the combo and Rings gives better value outside the combo. I've playtested this deck. Numerous times. It runs out of gas frequently and struggles assembling and executing the combo. Rings + Basalt is easier to find, easier to recur, and Rings has much more incidental value and can form loops for winning with other cards already slotted, like Codex Shredder. PA is only getting tutored off two cards, Intuition and Muddle the Mixture. Rings is getting tutored off MANY more cards. Even if the speed is slower, the availability and utility is much higher. From the availability perspective, I think it is a much more valuable include. This deck struggles to assemble a win in a timely manner, so make the pieces more fetchable. Even if you disagree with Basalt + Rings, Grim + PA is definitely a weak combo in that PA is absolutely useless without Grim, and you get 2-for-1'd by artifact removal in response to casting PA. Some of the mana cost is negated with Urza too, but more importantly, you're more likely to have excess mana from other artifacts (if you run more than 17 ahahahaha) which helps to power the combo and sustain uses for value. Yes the value from Rings costs a lot, but wow! Urza makes mana! Maybe, if we combine the mana from other artifacts we're already playing, and then use that to pay for Rings activations, we can get ahead!
My biggest reason for including Rings + Basalt was because this deck is just slow as fuck. I understand it can't race against decks with Black, but honestly this $4000 durdle pile can't race at all. Having your game plan be "Untap, upkeep, draw, and that will be a pass from me" is unbelievably stupid. Compare to a deck like Rashmi or Baral, which can actually accrue value from this style of play. When given space, all this deck does is. . . uh . . . hold up mana for counterspells.
Honestly the biggest problem with Workshop is a bad topdeck late game. P.S. this card also makes more sense with more artifacts. I'm not advocating for adding it in this list without adding other cards.
Howling Mine - Lets look. If Urza is in it draws you a card. If Urza is out it draws you a card. Seems like it still works without Urza.
Speaking about the failure mode though, Static Orb may wreck your game worse than 3 draw triggers. If you have Urza get removed while trying to protect, you're most likely tapped out. Not having the mana to interact with the Flash is going to be worse than giving the Flash player 1 more card. Similarly, other opponents are going to have mana difficulties with either of the Orbs to interact with the Flash Hulk player too. This is pretty well known, and the card is still ran. If you think that a colorless Dark Confidant + Mox Sapphire stapled to it with the failure of symmetry instead of asymmetry isn't worth running, we have nothing more to discuss on the matter.
I agree that Narset's Reversal is an over slotted card and should be used mostly in mono color. I think its popularity is because it serves as a Copy Artifact outlet with Dramatic Reversal, as it does here.
About Urza and spinning the wheel, its reusable card draw + play the spell. It doesn't replace your regular card draw, and yes having high counterspell density does cause more bricks from activations. The rest of your argument for this section talks about the "meta and how you can't be agnostic of it". Yeah dude, once again, this deck hasn't been updated in 5 months. Tell that to the brewers.
BUT PITHING NEEDLE DOESNT SEE PLAY SHAPER TOLD ME SO
Yeah dude, of the 400 cards you see in a pod, you only have control over 100. If your maximum power deck only works against maximum power decks, is it really a maximum power deck? Sure, in theory you shouldn't account for Needle, but
- This game being played in paper with real costs to cards means that the vast majority of players do not have 100% access to the cards they should slot, which means they put another card in that slot
- The vast majority of players are not aware of the competitive meta or lists. Those who are enfranchised with knowledge and access most likely are aware of how Needle performs in other formats and consider it here as well.
- A savvy player who loses to a deck that can be shut off by a single card may slot that card when they expect to see the deck again. The meta evolves as players realize how vulnerable this deck is to a 1 cmc card that literally any deck can slot
- Needle variants see play, and players without large card pools may slot more of the same effect. Players may also slot the needle in place of Totem or Linvala, especially if they are Modern players who already have the Needle but not a Totem.
Imagine someone running Kiki combo being shut off by someone's random Ghostly Prison. Sure, that card shouldn't be run in optimized lists, but not being able to handle permanents on the board speaks to bad building. How this deck fares against Needle effects is the same.
As far as blind followers and me shitting on 'em, look at the replies to my posts mate. We have
- Tepid regurgitation post from a fan restating the primer
- 0 decks 1 post guy calling me a fucktard but saying I might be onto something
- You, saying this deck is golden against Fish when it hasn't been updated since 5 months before Fish hit the scene
- Dominican bro saying I've obviously never played competitive because ??? No reason given
- Still no one can explain why this deck has a 90% match to CVT or why it runs only 5 pieces of removal
Lazy, phoned-in deck from 4 brewers who just couldn't be bothered. If this opinion makes you mad, or makes you need to @ me, its because you're basing it off the merit of the names associated with it instead of the cards listed inside it. You can justify it as handling Fish meta, but the list hasn't been updated. Y'all really drink the Kool-Aid, and you drink it all.
5 months ago
Hey! So I have a few suggestions. Feel free to ignore any/all of them:
Cantrips are your friend in combo decks. Preordain and Ponder are the gold-standard here, since they dig pretty deep for one mana. You're including Brainstorm is good, but I'm not sure it's good enough without non-mana intensive shuffle effects (i.e. some form of fetch lands) to make sure you don't accidentally lock yourself with two cards you don't want on top. While cards like Prismatic Vista and Scalding Tarn can be expensive, depending on your meta something like Terramorphic Expanse or Evolving Wilds might be good enough. Flood Plain and Bad River are also worth considering. Other cantrips ( Opt , Sleight of Hand , Serum Visions ...) are ok but should be considered secondary to Preordain and friends.
Grafdigger's Cage is currently one of the best hosers in EDH, and it does not stop Urza's ability (since Urza's ability exiles the card before casting it, you never cast spells directly from your library). I think it's better than Darksteel Relic , since it still taps for mana and can be a turn one play while having a direct effect on the board state. Tormod's Crypt is a similar card you may want to consider. I think Relic of Progenitus is better than Phyrexian Furnace , especially since you're not running Snapcaster Mage .
Everflowing Chalice seems like a good rock. I've never been a fan of Mox Tantalite , since taking several turns to hit the board is a major drawback. Everflowing Chalice is a slightly worse Mind Stone , but you can cast it for zero when Urza is on the field and have a build-your-own Mox Sapphire .
Retract and/or Hurkyl's Recall can act as pseudo- Paradoxical Outcome s for the purposes of rebuilding mana or building storm-count for Temporal Fissure . They're admittedly not as good, but since you're already running Paradoxical Outcome you may want a redundant card for that effect.
You may want to revisit your counter-suite. Consider substituting more efficient cards for Dissolve and/or Exclude , since three mana is a lot to pay for a counterspell. Things like Spell Snare , Dispel , Spell Pierce , Swan Song , Pact of Negation and/or Delay are all good ways to protect your combo without using too much mana.
I think Mystic Remora is probably better than Rhystic Study . First, it comes down faster (T1 or T2), which means it catches your opponents' rocks when they're casting them in the first few turns. Second, four mana is a lot less payable than one, so you're more likely to draw even in experienced metas. Finally, your strategy is typically going to be a combo strategy -- so you don't need a PERMANENT shield, just one that will last long enough to protect you until you go off with Urza.
Cyclonic Rift is the best board wipe in blue. It's $20 nowadays, but if you can afford one you should definitely run it.
Dig Through Time is an excellent card, as is Treasure Cruise (though I don't like cruise as much as dig in combo decks like this, since it sees fewer cards). Running one of them seems like a good idea.
Chain of Vapor is REALLY good. If you can cast it and bounce an opposing stax piece ( Cursed Totem , Collector Ouphe , Damping Sphere ), it rarely gets reflected. And even if it is, you're likely to just be able to recast whatever they bounce on your board. More importantly, you can use it to bounce a bunch of your low-cost artifacts to both net mana and build storm. So... yea.
10 months ago
Just for reference, this is the entire ban list for oathbreaker.
Ad Nauseam , Ancestral Recall , Balance , Biorhythm , Black Lotus , Channel , Doomsday , Emrakul, the Aeons Torn , Expropriate , Fastbond , Gifts Ungiven , Griselbrand , High Tide , Library of Alexandria , Limited Resources , Lion's Eye Diamond , Mana Crypt , Mana Geyser , Mana Vault , Mox Emerald , Mox Jet , Mox Pearl , Mox Ruby , Mox Sapphire , Natural Order , Painter's Servant , Panoptic Mirror , Primal Surge , Primeval Titan , Recurring Nightmare , Saheeli, the Gifted , Sol Ring , Sundering Titan , Sway of the Stars , Sylvan Primordial , Time Vault , Time Walk , Tinker , Tolarian Academy , Tooth and Nail , Trade Secrets , Upheaval , Worldfire , and Yawgmoth's Bargain .
11 months ago
Am i missing something with Jeweled Amulet . I realize its a Mox Sapphire with urza in play but, so is Mishra's Bauble , Lodestone Bauble , Welding Jar and Urza's Bauble all atleast do something be it protect or draw a card. Lodestone Bauble can be looped to kill with twister with unbounded draws and mana. All seem like upgrades to Amulet unless i am missing a combo with it.
11 months ago
Okay. This will sound like I'm still a fool about this, but I believe the only true way to end this is through cooperation, & what is considered better as choices. W/ a truly uncleanable slate, I'd rather you don't choose for me (That happened to me once before, & it ended poorly, moreso than most.); but rather, suggest between either multiple or the fate of one thing(s), & I'll work from there. Concise enough, right? I mean, most CONTRA games have one simple goal to advance (& yes, I'm not just referring to the original on the NES.); Run, & Shoot. You can't go any further for that if you wish for further simplicity.
Alright, I'll shut it about the Contra Games; it's time to decide various card's Fates... Oh, & here's the Decklist in case you do care; don't worry, I'll clean the Planeswalker Amount up after all is set & done.
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 2 | 14 COMMENTS | 765 VIEWS | IN 3 FOLDERS
& Yes, I know it's not a Primer; I tried to do that, but as of WAR, there was too much content to handle, & abandoned the project entirely. Thus, a renaming is in order soon enough...
Q1. While both are good in their own, which duo do you believe is the better duo for this, & the other, more cut worthy?
1. Aminatou, the Fateshifter and/or Spark Double 2. Planebound Accomplice + Cloudstone Curio combo
Q2. Urza, Lord High Artificer is OP all over. There's already a threat of him being banned. He can convert any untapped Artifice you have like Mox Sapphire ; a card that's already banned, & he can make ALOT of Mox all at once, & can reset your library on the fly.
But, is he really worth it in Superfriends? He is a God among machines, that'll be dethroned quicker than Leovold, Emissary of Trest when he got banned.
Q3. What draw card should I even use in the first place?
Q4. Many seem to be against Oath of Gideon these days. I already have stuff that might be better than it. Is such an Oath broken based on recent events?
Q5. W/ Kytheon now dead, & the possibility of removing his Oath, I feel that I want to put a Planeswalker in that has the Gideon Type that is also good W/ Superfriends; or the least bad in this case. That, & I wonder if there will ever be a thing of Nissa being compatable to Superfriends as well. Both are possible but just in case...
The community seems in favor that there is no place for Kytheon in Superfriends/Avengers. What about Nissa? B: Do you think Nissa deserves a place in Superfriends, & if so, Which Iteration?
Nexus of Fate is left on its own. Don't worry about them walkers though. I'll handle that.
Q8. Apparently Bigger DOESN'T mean better in this archetype. The Hydra gets killed by the Walkers that stayed back in Ravnica.
Q9. W/ Q1 as a part of this charade, this is going to make Thran Temporal Gateway far less relevant. Do you believe I should keep this still?
Q10. Three Walkers have been hated on by all, but me: Saheeli, Sublime Artificer , Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast , & Rowan Kenrith . All these three cards I like alot, but nobody else does. Let's start w/ Rowan as she's obviously going to get hated the most. This deck already has Crawlspace (Which reduces her forced number of Attacking enemy creatures to 2.), Meekstone (Which locksdown those w/ 3 or more Power that do attack, rendered untapped their next turn.).
Should I keep Rowan Kenrith , or should I amp up the level of defense for Rowan, & from there, my Walkers as a whole, & if so, what would you reccomend?
Saheeli, Sublime Artificer is next. Just having a Static ability to make Durdles for every noncreature you cast is awesome. What's not awesome? Most of my targets are Rocks, & I'd like some good targets, & even an End the Turn effect to keep the fruits of Saheeli's nature.
Should I keep Saheeli, Sublime Artificer , & if so, can you think of any good targets for her; & a decent End the Turn effect? The best I can find are Sundial of the Infinite , & Time Stop ; I already have a Sorcery Speed Timetwister , & I don't want to lose.
Finally, Daretti himself. Sure, his constructs can't attack due to Defender, but listen wisely; you can also sac your Constructs, & Saheeli's Servos as ammo to destroy enemy Artifice & even enemy creatures. You just need one aftifact, & those durdles are very good at that. His Ult. can make 3 copies of an artifact you control. But what if I told you it doesn't matter whose Graveyard you're copying Artifacts, nor even who controls them. Yep. You can simply search your opponent's yard & make three big things all at once. Go ahead. Take their Blightsteel Colossus , & Winfect. Steal their Rocks for yourself! There is only little that Daretti can't do w/ all this.
After that, Should I keep Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast ? & I apologize for the descriptions for the three; I wanted to show a basic synopsis for them.
Q11. As I have more Creatures, Topdecking, & a decent array of lands, I also want to know if another Walker in particular is more priveledged to be in there now; Vivien Reid . Based on her abilities (Spot Removal, prep-topdeck, & an awesome Emblem.), do you think she should be added?
Q12. W/O 10/10/10, how would you redesign this deck's Landbase w/ the following link? Note that the first 5 slots are taken by default via the Cycle Duals (from Amonkhet.), & that it has Crucible of Worlds .
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 24 | 10 COMMENTS | 2466 VIEWS | IN 28 FOLDERS
Q13. Having mana in all 5 Colors is great, but sometimes, not having all the mana types might not be worth it all.
Based on this, What should I keep?
C: Both of the former.
E: Keep Omen, & suggest a new, much better rock to add on the deck's competitive nature.
Well, that's all the questions I have for now. I hope this Q&A thing can help w/ the whole deck revising. & after I got my answrs, I'll take it from here. Thank you again for all this. :)
1 year ago
I mean any artifact creature that makes more artifacts for you is a good option.
Myr Battlesphere is effectively just a 3 drop since it make 4 Myr tokens when it comes into play.
Whirler Rogue is another case of this that costs 2 less since it makes Thopters on entry.
Lux Cannon Combos really well with Unwinding clock to help you pop off a permanent every turn.
Zero cost artifact creatures will pretty much serve as a Mox Sapphire for your spells.
Also Clock of Omens serves as an extra Unwinding clock even if it is a little worse.