Hey sorry to bother you again, I’m just looking for the ban list for spell slingers and I’ll have a prototype list for ya
August 10, 2020 4:50 p.m.
Hey, finally getting back to you about that spell slingers format lol.
Was looking to build a 5 color control deck with Man-Lands and a few token spells as finishers. Let me know your thoughts and I’ll start brewing up a list!
August 10, 2020 1:59 p.m.
Sorry I accidentally blocked you, I was trying (rather naively) to enable chat. I was hoping you could take a look at my deck and give some ideas: Yennett Simplicity. It's combo+control themed, and I think you'd like it.
August 2, 2020 6:16 p.m.
To link an image, type this:
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August 2, 2020 4:55 p.m.
Hey man, just chill about the Deino thing. If Noone cares about him, as you said, why are you still pestering him on his wall?
August 2, 2020 4:06 p.m.
Hey man, just chill about the Deino thing. If Noone cares about him, as you said, why are you still pestering him on his wall?
August 2, 2020 4:05 p.m.
don't dish it out if you cant take it right?
i have done my share of mud flinging so i am not going to get all worked up just because i got a little mud on my face
i do think everyone is over reacting though
i trolled one person, because they were belittling someone for trying to build an off meta combo
that was weeks ago. that does not make me a forum troll nor does it mean that i come here to create problems and honestly people should be over it already
also for the record, to date i have never posted one of my actual decks online.
the decks you see come and go on my profile are other peoples decks that i am helping build/tune
July 31, 2020 6:14 p.m.
Honestly, I was on the very edge of posting to 's page directly since that seemed like the right move to make, but I wondered if I did then would I be failing in regards to the community at large? It's a personal opinion in regards to the social aspect of the site, but I don't believe people should be hunting down information from individual's postings in order to shame that person in public. Fundamentally this is something I feel most people find distasteful in any social setting and my concern was mostly that if I didn't express that sentiment publicly then incidents of that nature might be more likely to repeat in the future. I wound up posting what I'd have posted to personally in that thread instead out of sense of community duty, but I'd certainly have preferred to post it privately and will almost always choose that option. Seems like you've got a handle on it and I'll let you manage things from here. Thanks mate, much obliged.
July 31, 2020 3:39 a.m.
Yeah, that comment by really surprised me given how our interactions have occurred in the past. He really is a very nice, mellow fellow and this instance kind of shocked me. As soon as I read the comment I rather assumed there was some sort of missing context involved because it just seems so out of character. Hopefully no one takes anything the wrong way, particularly my own comments as I'm not really trying to insert myself unnecessarily into a situation, just trying to express sentiments intended to keep the peace.
July 31, 2020 3:24 a.m.
Hey boss, would you be interested in helping me build a SpellChaser list? I haven’t done much research into it tbh, but it looks fun.
July 24, 2020 7:42 a.m.
I've been on the site but I took on a massive self imposed build challenge to see if I could accommodate a casual mind set. Has there been any sweet tech for yisan post jumpstart? Like, I saw the elf guy who's awesome and destiny Spinner has shaken things up but I haven't seen anything that redefines the entire deck since finale.
July 23, 2020 6:25 p.m.
Fresh from the oven :) https://soundcloud.com/jensmansson/and-there-she-was
July 18, 2020 9:34 p.m.
Your right its not fair to StopShot i'll have to stop
and you already know i don't actually care were people get there deck idea's. personally iv'e already had 8 of my decks copied by others that's why i always keep 5 decks ready and change them every week.
trash talking netdeck or competive is just an easy way to tilt someone who is trying to troll you
between just you and me (and everyone who is reading your wall)
i find it wildly entertaining to trash talk netdecking on a website designed to help assist and create netdecks for players struggling with there own builds.
its like no one even notices the hypocrisy lmao!
July 17, 2020 12:40 p.m.
Nope, just mere coincidence!
July 17, 2020 11:24 a.m.
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I mean, maybe? That seems like a dream land where players don't win out of nowhere. Not really the cEDH I know of, but sure! Oko often won't be able to survive in that way, because players will just kill it if it annoys them. Removal still beats Oko, it's just that as a walker it dies to creatures too, which is my issue with it. That's all. It isn't a bad card because of it, it's just slightly less amazing.
Separately Study has been a card that needs to be played properly (not thrown out as a draw engine like a Tymna). It is efficient against storm, think Compost, and when played against opponents early on it can be absurd. Late game it's a meh card but so are a lot of cEDH cards.
August 14, 2020 5:58 p.m. Edited.
@RambIe for sure! Just wanted to make sure I wasn't being confusing either xD
@jaymc1130 just wanted to state I really don't want to say Oko, Thief of Crowns isn't amazing, and shouldn't be a staple, it's just second to Gilded Drake in my book, however both are so different I find it strange to compare them.
August 14, 2020 5:43 p.m.
RambIe "Win more", when I used it at least (not speaking for anyone else that uses it) means to me the types of cards like Overrun after you already had lethal on field. They are cards that don't need to be run, because when they are good you are already winning.
"Lose less" is another term meant to describe cards like Fog in a situation where it saves you a turn, but you do nothing with that turn and die the next turn. It stalls defeat, but doesn't change the situation.
A card that is great, but only when you are winning, or can stall, but only when you are losing are not good cards, and because it's hard to block creatures from 3 opponents, walkers have a disadvantage in EDH, making the thought that Oko protects itself from opposing creatures (one of the hallmarks of the card in formats like Standard and Modern, and even currently running through legacy) almost faulty, and while it being at 5 loyalty helps, often because it doesn't give direct card advantage, many deck will just beat it.
That's not saying I don't run and love the card, but I'd still pick Drake over Oko if I had to pick! I don't run Karn, Ashiok, or Narset often either. Oko is probably the toughest of them all, but my metagame is a lot of decks with Oakhame Adversary, Tymna the Weaver, partner decks, etc. that can deal with all sorts of walkers.
Yuriko is never really a big deal, as it's such an easy deck to whiff and die to itself. Our metagame is really just Kenriths, partner decks, Najeela (soo much najeela that just easy kills a walker), etc. that mean that slower Oko style plays are the more untenable variants.
Still, even on MTGO, while I would run both I'd still rather Drake, it's just a cleaner card overall, and more efficient, and easier to tutor, etc.
BTW: I compare him more to Dack Fayden, Teferi, Time Raveler, and Grasp of Fate than to Gilded Drake. A 3 mana, sorcery speed, interaction piece that either hits multiple cards, or has additional value makes more sense to me to compare. Dack Fayden used to be everywhere, and slowly ran out of the metagame (still is in Kess, Dissident Mage, but the -2 is less used) and it just less useful given the metagame's more creature-based evolution.
August 14, 2020 5:32 p.m.
Sadly, free draw is often Gitaxian Probe, so not paying life seems strange ;)
August 14, 2020 5:23 p.m.
August 14, 2020 5:01 p.m.
Honestly some stores could actively abuse that and inflate prices so whales that want to win just buy out overpriced staples and ruin it for the rest of the players while they win, and the stores get a fat paycheck at the expense of all their customers.
It's anti-consumerist in nature.
August 14, 2020 4:59 p.m.
DeinoStinkus Is a flying 7/7 lifelinker not an an extra effect xD
August 14, 2020 4:50 p.m.
Honestly Gitrog works wonderfully as a 6/6 Deathtouch beatstick that just draws an additional card each turn, and because of the fetchlands of the format, it can draw 2-3 cards pretty easily in a turn as well, letting you draw lands that you play to feed it. Yes a Gitrog deck may abuse it more, but you don't need to win with it to say that an additional 1-3 cards a turn and a giant beatstick of death is bad for 2 mana and giving up a 3/3 flier.
Allure is weirdly the best while ahead, as interactive instant speed effects are the best to overthrow cheap one-turn wins that could overthrow your commanding presence. Drake is the worst, as it is only sorcery speed and doesn't have any threat value, like Allure and Oko, once it is out it is done.
Oko being better later on, while it's interactive effect is more often better utilized earlier on is the biggest issue with it, but it's a small issue, so mana cost isn't my biggest issue with it, it is that it's a walker. If it was an enchantment, artifact, or even creature that doesn't die to a turn cycle of creatures turning sideways.
If it just +1ed at that point it'd be a staple, as is, I don't trust it to survive, so I expect it to be worth a few sorcery speed Beast Withins that are delayed. Not a bad card, just not great.
I have a log of a little less than 1700 cEDH games that were individually recorded with commanders, decklists, etc. but not fully compiled to that extent. Sadly, over 200 games additional games had a misplay or misruling so they could be deemed unusable, or I'd have much more data.
August 14, 2020 4:49 p.m. Edited.
DeinoStinkus Vilis needs extra mana, and a target, Griselboi just draws, even if it is immediately removed, you can respond with tons of draw.
August 14, 2020 4:46 p.m.
RNR_Gaming Could I still have understanding on why you'd allow buyouts?
August 14, 2020 4:34 p.m. Edited.
RNR_Gaming yeah, I know about those cards, and the lists I showed ran Wild Growth. The issue is Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, and Freed from the Reel is a 3 card combo, and adding in Voyaging Satyr, Wild Growth, etc. to combat this lack of consistency decreases individual card value and 3 card combos are much more difficult to Tutor for.
My LGS is Cape Fear Games, which is luckily a big enough store that is gets big booths at all the nearby Grand Prixs, etc. and is a big online retailer, as well as sponsoring tons of creators, so buying them out isn't particularly possible, given their inventory. I'm sure it could work for over players, and so I think the most effective method if you have infinite irl money that isn't tied to the format is the following:
Buy out the entire store's singles and sealed product. Then sell back to them only the cards you need for your deck, then buy them with store credit for your deck.
No joke now the format is done.
That's why I think this format doesn't work if you allow this. Additionally I still think a random 3 card combo being more budget than a better 2 card one is silly to assume as equals. For the 4+ mana untappers, or that one that needs threshold, or that one that taps for exactly , I'm not particularly concerned, as they are bad cards outside of the combo, unlike Bloom Tender, and the reason that Freed combos in cEDH are phased out is because creature removal is so prevalent, and that is more of a problem in the early portions of the format too. Any other ideas on how to beat my upgrade path? I'd still like to hear some more ideas, maybe an upgrade path through Yisan, the Wanderer Bard or something that goes from Inalla to Kess or anything with The Gitrog Monster?
August 14, 2020 3:49 p.m.
jaymc1130 Mind if I get a source on the 4% decrease in winrate? Also is that a decrease of 4% in total winrate (assume 25% down to 21%) or is that a relative drop to the deck's winrate irrespective of its total against the field (25% down to 24%)?
Sorry, just haven't found the data you are referencing! I've been trying to collect a ton on it, and having an exact database of every deck running each card seems hugely impactful to supporting/debunking some other hypotheses I have about the format.
Again, I don't think Allure is a good card, let alone better than Oko, but it isn't a directly worse card, and many decks that don't want Oko for a variety of reasons.
Additionally, the metagame currently isn't extremely commander focused. Sure Gitrog has its issues, but Kess does consult one way or another, Kenrith is a 5c value pile, Najeela is always layered with Consult, sometimes even pod, etc.
Partner pairings run them for value and rarely rely on them (Yes some infinite mana combos want Thrasios, but mostly they are all cool with a pile of value too)
Really, commander-removal isn't the name of the game with Gilded Drake, Legacy's Allure, Oko, Thief of Crowns and it never was about that. Otherwise Darksteel Mutation would be played, and it certainly isn't in high enough numbers to count as relevant.
Oko is good because if players don't think it is a threat it will slowly take down a few stax pieces or opposing threats, before the elks kill it. It doesn't get more than 1-3 Beast Withins even in slow games, because it dies. The chance that it dies immediately, and doesn't get you another threat like Gilded Drake does is big.
My biggest issue is that you continue to say that Gilded Drake just is a Darksteel Mutation that gives a flying elk. It steals a threat. Oko answers something, and leaves you an Oko, Drake answers something, and leaves you whatever was so powerful it needed answering.
Oko is better in the scenarios that you aren't pressed on mana, you are in a commanding board presence for creatures, or are so far behind you know opponents won't kill it, if the threats are cards you don't want, or if you need to remove a troublesome artifact, like a Sensei's Divining Top under a Counterbalance or a Bolas's Citadel.
Gilded Drake is better if you are tight on mana, doesn't matter what board state you have, if an opponent has a high value creature you want, or if you need have a need for a threat on your side, rather than a Walker that will die.
The issue with Oko, is that it is really only better than Drake when you are way behind or way ahead, and if you are way behind I don't see it as the best way to catch up, a sweeper often is, and if you are way ahead you probably don't need it at all. That isn't to say you shouldn't run both, or if you are in a high-value artifact based metagame Oko couldn't be better, but that on average, against the field, a vast number of decks should run Drake over Oko, if they only have the choice of one.
But screw that, I'm running both loser xD
August 14, 2020 3:38 p.m.
Being able to steal the artist, as it had 0 power, and Legacy's Allure could be activated at instant speed, unlike Oko, Thief of Crowns was key, and while yes, both Gilded Drake and Oko, Thief of Crowns are both value-heavy threats and answers, Drake is able to steal things without needing more than the ETB, rather than waiting to take a card like Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy or Notion Thief until it makes a food (Yes I know you can swap and artifact or something too, but people use the food more often, and you still need to + it to get to the ult).
In context, Allure is a threat, able to be used at instant speed, for 2 mana, and Drake is a faster steal effect at 2 mana. Oko is sorcery speed, takes longer to use, but is reusable.
All 3 are good cards, but none replace eachother. While I'd rank Drake, then Oko, then Allure, if the metagame shifts, Allure could be on top, Oko could be on top, etc.
I think assuming that Oko, Thief of Crowns replaces any of these cards is biased due to the way it was seen in other formats. In EDH, a 3/3 isn't a big deal at protecting a Walker, and due to the fact that it is seen as a threat, players will kill it fast. It is akin to a Beast Within quite often, not even getting a singular steal. In comparison, Gilded Drake is less mana, and almost assuredly gets you the steal.
Could Oko, Thief of Crowns replace Beast Within in decks like Tasigur Control, where it was looped to make sure an opponent had a creature out for you to start Reality Shifting? Perhaps, but that is most likely where it fully replaces things, and not being instant speed, only hitting artifacts/creatures, etc. may even make that an unreasonable replacement to many players.
August 14, 2020 12:21 p.m.
About how the Iron Man format is a "rich get richer" situation, honestly I fully agree, and personally want to abuse that. After testing a lot last night, the comment I wrote was the best attempt at getting a 100% winrate by use of the arguably best upgrade path.
Honestly I didn't read into the until I you mentioned that it was abuseable, so I wanted to see how well I could have abused it, and I think I proved you correct, so thanks for the idea!
August 14, 2020 11:29 a.m.
RNR_Gaming While I had considered it, really the only ways to use Freed combos effectively took too much money, as while Faeburrow Elder is incredibly well-educated, Bloom Tender wasn't and if you went for the Sultai Precon from Ikoria Commander for Zaxara, the Exemplary, you'd be looking at dealing with a no Thrasios, Triton Hero which adds an additional 40-50 dollars onto the pricetag.
Sadly freed is a much less budget combo given the upgrade path to use it.
EDIT: Faeburrow wouldn't fit the colors for Thrasios if you got the Yidris Precon, so only Bloom Tender would fit in, and isn't budgeted enough.
August 14, 2020 11:14 a.m. Edited.
Trying to solve the format:
Now, why Yidris? Yes, Atraxa, Praetors' Voice is in the right colors, however it is much more expensive to switch from these decklists in that way. Neither Tymna nor Thrasios is in the Atraxa Precon (As seen on Atraxa Precon (Reference)), and Yidris has Thrasios, Triton Hero (Yidris Precon), and when it comes down to it, most importantly are the sultai colors of the pairing, so the manabase isn't incredibly difficult to swap, etc.
Now down to the deck's evolution. While starting with Yidris for it's value is smart, moving quickly over to change out for a Thrasios, Triton Hero/Vial Smasher the Fierce once you make a few dollars, adding in the main engines that drive this archetype. Thassa's Oracle isn't incredibly expensive, however Demonic Consultation/Tainted Pact are certainly not cheap anymore. This means that the best wincons are going to be more controling, and I recommend moving to Vial Smasher as a main wincon.
Keen Sense and Curiosity effects are honestly not a huge investment, and can add a lot of consistency and ability to turn the list into a Curious Control style deck very fast. That can be cheap switches, like Notion Thief, Dig Through Time, and Treasure Cruise to add additional damage and value throughout the game, and just adding some extra cheap countermagic and mana dorks to get them out early and the deck looks really efficient.
Remember, this list already has good synergies for this strategy. Obviously ramp + Thrasios is busted, that's why Thrasios, Triton Hero is so expensive. Just tossing in Vial Smasher as a backup wincon to any number of decent budget threats, some cheap board wipes (think Languish) and some effective removal and the list hits really hard as a strong control deck, easily able to win some games for that cash prize. Being a strongly upgradeable deck, one that gets incredibly powerful on a budget if you have the precon, and also being great out of the box is why this strategy is so good.
Remember for those that wanted Atraxa, or the 5c Dragon deck and wanted to upgrade those to the higher tiers for their manabase, they have to cut tons of dragon and +1/+1 synergies over time, while this deck ran cards like Windfall and Decimate and Burgeoning and signets, Fellwar Stone, Commander's Sphere, etc. Our deck just ran the good cards irrespective of strategy, letting us change out individual cards rather than the whole deck.
Now upgrading the manabase, individual cards, turning more into a curious control deck, perfectly balance in the competitive scenes, hopefully smoking the competition in the early-mid tiers of this format, moving to the Oracle/Consult lines, and tuning will get you far, but make sure you know when enough is enough, as this plateaus with enough money pretty fast, don't go out of your way to get shocks and even mid budget cards (5+ dollars or maybe even less) that can't be used for the Tymna the Weaver side of things. Start looking to upgrade the ramp, interaction, etc. and look to save up store credit to get Tymna the Weaver.
Perhaps prepare by getting manabase that works for both, think fetches at a certain point where either decklist has a use for it, as you upgrade to the best deck of the format, this will be a budgeted version obviously, but even a City of Brass is a great card that just does work for either deck. Getting cheap enablers like Avacyn's Pilgrim, Drannith Magistrate, Aven Mindcensor to replace the Keen Sense style effects from Vial Smasher aren't too expensive, so make sure you are ready to swap cards as you swap commanders. Now work on a bit of manabase fixing and the deck is really ready.
The decklists below look to show where to take the Vial Smasher and Tymna variants on a budget, both based off of some of the cards it would have been expected to have gotten! I personally went for the Dramatic Reversal/Isochron Scepter plan first while testing, as it wasn't overly expensive, and adding in a ton of dorks and rocks for the list was both cheaper than many people might expect, and really really useful when wanting to both have a strong lategame (Thrasios is busted) and also allows for the backup wincon backdooring Thrasios into a Jace/Oracle win!
Commander / EDH
2 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
Taking the above decklist, refining it for Tymna the Weaver and reposting a similar list and we have the following below:
Commander / EDH
0 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
Now, not only are both of these good budget cEDH decks, but they are specifically in the mindset of this format, being the optimal upgrade path to a cEDH list from this mindset, and being the most competitive upgrade path possible, hopefully dominating the format.
Now obviously some people will enjoy the Iso-Rev combo, may move to Power Artifact style stuff after a few hundred wins, whatever floats your boat. I already own duals from store credit in EDH games I run cEDH decks in sanctioned by the store, so it is possible, just depending on the length of the season. Again, my store has a system where each player pays 5 dollars, and gets a 5 dollar coin, they can play in one of two types of pods, one where each player keeps the coin, or the other where people give it to the winner. Under this system, with a $20 allowance per win, assuming 1 win per week you get to build up these lists in roughly 8 weeks based on my estimates.
Make sure to use heavily played cards, discount codes, etc. to get it done even faster! Also, look into other upgrade paths to solve this format, while I tested every list and saw what was closest to the top tier, there may be much more efficient lists early on, so try to get a system to beat this one!
Thank you RNR_Gaming for this challenge, it was super fun to try to solve, and I look forward to perhaps testing my theory in person and crushing everyone xD
August 14, 2020 1:07 a.m. Edited.
I mean, there are some lists already around. It as a commander is just: Turbo Ritual Out Griselbro, then draw draw draw all the rest of the rituals, storm, win.
August 13, 2020 5:21 p.m.
TypicalTimmy I love the theory behind it! Yeah, honestly what a great way to wrap this up, however I do think a format of two players just tossing cardboard ending up where the game always is a draw is boring, and I think having a format where skill leads to more interesting games. In this format, it means a draw every game after tossing 250 cards around. It gets more boring the more skill.
August 12, 2020 7:21 p.m.
The issue, is if you get rid of the combos or the protection, the next best cards will replace them. I'd estimate a banlist of 200+ cards for the combo pieces, and at least a good 40-50 for protection, given the restrictions.
August 12, 2020 6:36 p.m.
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SCORE: 11 | 8 COMMENTS | 1853 VIEWS | IN 6 FOLDERS
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 42 | 41 COMMENTS | 8881 VIEWS | IN 11 FOLDERS
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 22 | 23 COMMENTS | 5814 VIEWS | IN 9 FOLDERS
SCORE: 3 | 2 COMMENTS | 306 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 96 | 110 COMMENTS | 5358 VIEWS | IN 36 FOLDERS
3 COMMENTS | 138 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
Commander / EDH*
SCORE: 118 | 48 COMMENTS | 7803 VIEWS | IN 40 FOLDERS
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 29 | 14 COMMENTS | 4332 VIEWS | IN 13 FOLDERS
SCORE 1 | COMMENTS 0 | VIEWS 322
|Playing since||Magic Online Promo Cards|
|Avg. deck rating||6.69|
|Favorite formats||Standard, Legacy, Vintage, Commander / EDH, Modern, Pauper, Block Constructed, Limited, Duel Commander, Tiny Leaders, Highlander, 1v1 Commander, Pauper EDH, Canadian Highlander|
|Good Card Suggestions||822|
|Venues||Cape Fear Games|
|Last activity||46 minutes|