JayMC1130 at your service!

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Urza, Lord High Artificer and Jhoira are best friends who like to attend events (such as a game of Wizard Cards) together. Fact.

July 15, 2019 3:34 a.m.

Forbidden Orchard . This way you always have a target for Etrata to hit.

Maybe also a few ways to tutor it out.

Edit: Lol, nvm. Etrata specifies card so tokens are a no go. Maybe some other way of "donating" creatures to them?

July 15, 2019 2:28 a.m. Edited.

Said on Gorgeous Girls Deck...

#3

Am I the only one with Motley Crue lyrics running through my head as I look at this list?

July 15, 2019 2:25 a.m.

Said on Urza | Of ......

#4

@ Byuante I fell into the same trap to be honest. Took a half dozen losing games where I played it to realize it was counterproductive for competitive play.

July 15, 2019 1:47 a.m.

Said on Urza | Of ......

#5

Tabernacle is a no go for Urza. This deck can't afford to sac or force tap its construct in a competitive setting plus this card is anti ramp. Opponents gain a huge lead against Urza decks 100% of the time this card is played unless each opponent has out at least 4 creatures when it's played (in which case they are already so far ahead of Urza that there's usually nothing that can change that). Can't use Tabernacle in a deck that relies on getting its commander out early and often when that commander is a 2 for 1 in terms of body count.

July 15, 2019 12:12 a.m. Edited.

@ DrkNinja Happy to help mate. Verity Circle might not be worth including unless you regularly face decks with a quantity of mana dorks. It's a pretty solid inclusion against the meta at large most of the time, but in specific metas it might be useless so use your best judgement with that one.

July 14, 2019 8:25 p.m.

Welding Jar isn't the biggest need, Lightning Greaves probably also not as much as Crystal Shard is honestly even more effective at protecting Urza while also generating value from replaying him. Torpor Orb doesn't jive with that concept though and should also come out if Crystal Shard is in. Walking Ballista still isn't useful, any time it could do something relevant you can win the game in a half dozen other fashions. Springleaf Drum performs better than Paradise Mantle in that slot. Spellbook should be a pretty easy cut, it's almost never impactful.

Mystic Forge is a tutorable version of what Future Sight offers with Top. Swap or run in addition to according to preference. Verity Circle has proven rather effective at generating grind card advantage over time, Memory Jar is better at giving you a reload. Mirrodin Beseiged plus Skullclamp can help supplement what Sai does in storm turns and lead to some explosive card draw although this isn't the most efficient or consistent set up to assemble. Helm of Awakening as a second cost reducer is nice, and Cloud Key as well as Foundry Inspector also fit that bill.

July 14, 2019 5:24 p.m.

Said on For Those About ......

#8

Best. Music. Related. Deck. Name. Ever.

+Infinity.

July 14, 2019 2:49 p.m.

@ Xindlepete Cheerios are good for your heart health. Fact. And this is in addition to being part of a complete and balanced breakfast!

July 13, 2019 5:46 a.m.

@ Xindlepete Happy to help mate, and yeah, the Coveted Words loop should come with a disclaimer about the price of friendship. If everyone else is running 150$ budget decks you'd probably be allowed to play this exactly one time. After that you'd either have to find a new play group or a replacement card post playgroup banning. I run it in my cEDH Jhoira list and figured I'd mention it.

July 13, 2019 5:29 a.m.

For about 10 bucks you could add Coveted Jewel , Words of Wind , Foundry Inspector , Jhoira's Familiar , Herald of Kozilek and Springleaf Drum . The Drum helps turn your creatures into rituals off of Recall and Retract effects, empowering your storm turn. The Herald, Familiar, and Inspector are other cheap cost reducers for a buck or less. Words of Wind and the Jewel work as a combo in tandem with the cost reducers. As long as you have cost reduction of 4 with Words out you can play the Jewel, draw the first card from Jhoira, tap the Jewel for mana, then skip one of the Jewel draws to return the Jewel to hand to play it again and draw the whole deck. At 5 or more cost reduction this combo also generates net positive mana per loop turning the Jewel into a ritual that draws cards.

Cloud Key is also worth considering, but it's about 15 bucks by itself.

July 13, 2019 3:56 a.m.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this list could beat decks that cost 50 times as much money a pretty fair percentage of the time. Unleash the power of the jank!

July 13, 2019 3:39 a.m.

Brago is definitely my favorite for Azorius casual control. His ability is just so much fun to use, plus I'm able to run and enhance planeswalkers I love but don't really fit into more competitive metas. Nothing says "control" quite like Jace, The Mind Sculptor brainstorming twice a turn.

July 13, 2019 12:17 a.m.

The Shard can work wonders doing double duty protecting Urza and generating value from replaying him, so I still think it's acceptable to devote a slot to it. I just miss that it worked as a 2 card combo win condition with PE to pull triple duty. I've taken it out for the time being to test some other cards in that slot but if it turns out I really need another piece to protect Urza it's going right back in. I think with the modular theme you're running the loss of PE affects the value of Crysta Shard for the list quite a bit less than lists that run less creatures to generate value from.

July 12, 2019 3:12 a.m.

Said on ad12341987...

#15

"i have no idea how to send messages on tapped out."

No worries, me neither.

"i appreciate your concern for my understanding of cedh and would love to get any feedback concerning what you believe i may be missing in terms of general knowledge of the way it is played, i assume you are more specifically referring to interactions between meta based threats such as answering in turn order things like graveyard interaction, (s)tax pieces, etc etc."

I wasn't actually referring to any one specific thing, I was more just making a general statement that the reasoning given for various card suggestions doesn't exactly jive with how the cEDH meta actually works in practice. For example, the suggestion of Aphetto Alchemist and Illusionist's Bracers and the reasoning behind employing them isn't at all unsound, it's just that this is an extremely inefficient combo (both card slot wise and mana investment wise) that doesn't accomplish very much towards an Urza deck's main goal and requires a creature to not be summoning sick in mono blue. In no world is this a combo that is remotely viable at the competitive level, even if the reasoning for suggesting it to do what it does isn't off base.

"I really was not trying to be a know it all or imply i have more skill or intelligence on the subject of cedh but i can assure you the post i made in that thread was to both offer insight into another playstyle based on raw calculated numbers."

I totally get it mate, and I certainly don't fault you for chiming in. I just kind of wanted to nip an sort of argument that might begin between you and other parties before it started so as not to bug ToffMcSoft. We've already had one person in that deck list's comment thread being a deliberately rude, ignorant, and arrogant tool and it's clear that set a bit of an example that was followed. It should go without saying that I did not care for the rudeness of tone others displayed toward you, it seemed rather insulting to me and clearly was something that might have caused a commotion. I was just trying to get ahead of that possibility. Me, personally, if you want to say snide and mean things about me I just won't even acknowledge your existence. I don't need to argue merits with some internet troll who has never won a professional tournament in his life and will never match my accomplishments at that level.

"the things i said concerning my own experiences were entirely true and i am without doubt extremely confident in both my playstyle and deck building strategies, though i do not play as much as i used to as i spend most of my time theory crafting and calculating best in slot cards for generals as they come out. I would like to state I have no intention of arguing any details about these statements but if you would like to discuss further please feel free to let me know how to use a messenger on this website as I use it mostly to save lists i have built for people."

Again, no worries mate, and if you figure out how to use the message service please do inform me. I haven't got a clue how it works!

"i have a deep knowledge of the card base compared to most as i have been in the magic scene since 1995, so if you would like to discuss more please feel free to hmu anytime."

It was very clear you've got a wealth of knowledge about cards and the nifty things they can do. I certainly never meant to infer otherwise. I merely wanted to try to express that I don't think that necessarily translates to knowledge of how the competitive level meta works and how these individually nifty and useful concepts work in such a meta in actual practice for a variety of reasons.

"as a closing note i would like to add that what most people know, view, and see as a meta game and interaction based on cards currently being presented in a large portion of decks, both in cedh and eternal formats, is often mistaken as being the only correct way to arrange a given deck type, often utilizing "best in slot" strategies. synergy and cmc to card power value are often overlooked in a game that is turn based and scales thus."

Preaching to the choir on that note. I like to take a more holistic view and not just consider that a card like Cursed Totem is the best card at what it does in a given card slot but look at if the card actually increases the win rate of the decks it's utilized in when it's utilized (and a wealth of data I track proves rather unequivocally that just playing one of the totem effect cards actually decreases your chances of winning a match when measured against the whole metascape).

July 12, 2019 1:21 a.m.

@ ad12341987 Mate, I understand those folks might have been a bit rude to you and it might have made you upset, but I just want to be very real, very honest with you for a moment. Please understand I in no way intend to offend you.

It's pretty clear from your original statement that you don't have much experience with high level competitive play. Certainly in the EDH format and it's likely the case in every format simply based on the actual words, reasons, and choices you presented in said original statement. Again, I don't say this to belittle you, I'm just stating facts.

If you'd like to have a more in depth discussion about various aspects of competitive level play I'd be more than happy to oblige outside of ToffMcSoft's deck list as this would not be an appropriate place to have that kind of discussion nor is this the appropriate place for you to act outlandishly and make a scene. I understand some of those comments made toward you probably also fit that bill, and those folks should know better than to be deliberately rude and disrespectful. No matter what it's pretty impolite to have a bickering battle in another person's space. No one likes a Kiyomei.

July 11, 2019 11:37 p.m.

Well, with PE banned Mystic Forge is a lot more enticing as a go to option to replace the now missing deterministic line to draw the deck in a compact combo. Crystal Shard also lost a ton of value to the deck after that ban. It's worth giving an artifact cost reducer and the Forge a shot in place of those pieces.

July 11, 2019 7:45 p.m.

@ ToffMcSoft Oh man, if you haven't given some storm options a go yet get in a few games with a storm package. I think I've got a decent idea of how to kind of hybridize the variants for some role flexibility in match and the results have been pretty nice in the half dozen games I've managed to get in with this iteration. I really think Mystic Forge (can't tutor for Future Sight, le sigh) is a go to option now with PE on the ban bench, same number of combo pieces required, same (or at least similar depending on the cost reducer) mana investment, and requires pieces the deck is already running outside of Mystic Forge. It's a pretty straight forward 1 for 1 swap in. There's certainly ways to tune around that as an engine by adding in additional cost reducing pieces, but all that's needed to get the ball rolling is 1. It's pretty trivial to figure out the infinite mana part after the whole deck is in hand and in a list that runs a Lab Man style win con even more trivial to just win the match. Biggest down side is it doesn't play nice with Grafdigger's Cage .

July 11, 2019 11:33 a.m. Edited.

Said on cEDH Yidris storm...

#19

@ Natux I think most Kess decks these days tend to go for the Consultation win lines over the storm ones when an opening occurs in match, it's pretty easy to use one forbidden tutor into the Lab Man into the other tutor. I never liked these lines because they are such a huge risk, even if the reward is winning the game. Me, personally, I don't ever like taking the chance I'll exile my win condition when I attempt to go for the win so I stick with more conservative game styles for competitive play for the most part. Plus, storming off is fun, particularly with manual cascade Yidris. It's like solving a really complex puzzle making sure each piece is put in place in the proper order. I don't think there's any question that Storm archetypes, DD archetypes, Flash Hulk archetypes, even Gitrog's Dredge archetype, are a lot less effective than these strategies used to be. The meta is always evolving, people are always finding new solutions to problems, and the Sultai PS shells completely crushing all competitors using extreme card slot efficiency and looped win conditions kind of warped the meta. PE got banned and the truth is that those decks were the least affected of all the decks that made use of PE! I feel really bad for Sisay and Arcum players. There's really no question that Yidris is one of the best storm options out there (and I really enjoy that Storm archetypes actually have sub genres as well), but I certainly do feel like it's a strategy that is more limited in it's effectiveness these days.

Mana bases are hard in cEDH. Decks have to be fast enough to compete with the ever present ultra fast boogey men of the format, have to run enough lands to be able to play effectively without killing opening hand consistency or missing critical land drops, but not run so many that they draw lands when they really need gas. It's a really fine line and there really isn't a specific number that leads to success as deck, commander, meta, and archetype all make a difference. Some decks like Gitrog run 35ish, while a deck like Urza that's running 6 bajillion artifacts might barely want to run 28. I always find that the best way to find out is just playtesting. Get in 30 or 40 games and see if your initial thoughts are working out in the way you intend and adjust accordingly. I almost always start with 44 total sources and then mess with it as I accumulate results, tweaking the color availability and number as needed.

Some metas call for odd choices. Right around a year ago my group all started to realize a common issue many meta decks had: a single point of failure, one card that, if removed from an opposing deck, meant the deck couldn't ever actually go off. Food Chain, or Lab Man, or whatever it might have been was the only way for a deck to operate or win. My entire playgroup started to run Extract in literally every deck that ran blue and Praetor's Grasp in every deck that ran black. Most decks had both of these colors. If the deck had access to Mardu colors Hide also creeped in. It suddenly became a requirement to run not just a win condition, or an engine, but triple redundancy of absolutely everything your deck wanted to do or it just wouldn't be allowed to compete. If you played a deck our group knew didn't contain triplicate redundancy, you were first target and before turn 2 or 3 ended all your ways to win would be exiled. Naturally this evolved into every deck running Riftsweeper or Pull from Eternity style responses. It was a damn arms race and a radically informative period for us all. Then Ashiok, Dream Render got printed... A lot of our games wind up with a third of everyone's deck in exile these days and I'm still surprised at just how slow the cEDH community is to catch on to the power of these pieces. Sometimes I'm even laughed at for discussing the ways in which they can be employed by players who have never, and will never, win a profession level event. Meta calls can certainly be important.

No question about it, my Yidris list is NOT going to recover. It's not designed to, it doesn't intend to. It's kind of a stat check deck. "Does any one have an immediate answer on turn 2? No? Ok, I win." I'm definitely a player that prefers more conservative style decks, but you can't always play just one thing and one style. It's fun to mix it up and when I'm going for a more all in style I'm going 100% all in on whatever it is the deck is supposed to do and I'm going to do it as fast as it's possible to do and damn the consequences. You either got an answer, or ya don't. The hilarious thing about that list is that it generally takes 3 working together to stop it. It's a threat to win every single turn the second it untaps and if people ran out of resources without winning themselves than it just means the umpteenth attempt is the charm. All it needs is a Yidris swing and a single spell that's usually 1 cmc.

July 11, 2019 10:05 a.m.

Said on cEDH Yidris storm...

#20

@ Natux I think most Kess decks these days tend to go for the Consultation win lines over the storm ones when an opening occurs in match, it's pretty easy to use one forbidden tutor into the Lab Man into the other tutor. I never liked these lines because they are such a huge risk, even if the reward is winning the game. Me, personally, I don't ever like taking the chance I'll exile my win condition when I attempt to go for the win so I stick with more conservative game styles for competitive play for the most part. Plus, storming off is fun, particularly with manual cascade Yidris. It's like solving a really complex puzzle making sure each piece is put in place in the proper order. I don't think there's any question that Storm archetypes, DD archetypes, Flash Hulk archetypes, even Gitrog's Dredge archetype, are a lot less effective than these strategies used to be. The meta is always evolving, people are always finding new solutions to problems, and the Sultai PS shells completely crushing all competitors using extreme card slot efficiency and looped win conditions kind of warped the meta. PE got banned and the truth is that those decks were the least affected of all the decks that made use of PE! I feel really bad for Sisay and Arcum players. There's really no question that Yidris is one of the best storm options out there (and I really enjoy that Storm archetypes actually have sub genres as well), but I certainly do feel like it's a strategy that is more limited in it's effectiveness these days.

Mana bases are hard in cEDH. Decks have to be fast enough to compete with the ever present ultra fast boogey men of the format, have to run enough lands to be able to play effectively without killing opening hand consistency or missing critical land drops, but not run so many that they draw lands when they really need gas. It's a really fine line and there really isn't a specific number that leads to success as deck, commander, meta, and archetype all make a difference. Some decks like Gitrog run 35ish, while a deck like Urza that's running 6 bajillion artifacts might barely want to run 28. I always find that the best way to find out is just playtesting. Get in 30 or 40 games and see if your initial thoughts are working out in the way you intend and adjust accordingly. I almost always start with 44 total sources and then mess with it as I accumulate results, tweaking the color availability and number as needed.

Some metas call for odd choices. Right around a year ago my group all started to realize a common issue many meta decks had: a single point of failure, one card that, if removed from an opposing deck, meant the deck couldn't ever actually go off. Food Chain, or Lab Man, or whatever it might have been was the only way for a deck to operate or win. My entire playgroup started to run Extract in literally every deck that ran blue and Praetor's Grasp in every deck that ran black. Most decks had both of these colors. If the deck had access to Mardu colors Hide also creeped in. It suddenly became a requirement to run not just a win condition, or an engine, but triple redundancy of absolutely everything your deck wanted to do or it just wouldn't be allowed to compete. If you played a deck our group knew didn't contain triplicate redundancy, you were first target and before turn 2 or 3 ended all your ways to win would be exiled. Naturally this evolved into every deck running Riftsweeper or Pull from Eternity style responses. It was a damn arms race and a radically informative period for us all. Then Ashiok, Dream Render got printed... A lot of our games wind up with a third of everyone's deck in exile these days and I'm still surprised at just how slow the cEDH community is to catch on to the power of these pieces. Sometimes I'm even laughed at for discussing the ways in which they can be employed by players who have never, and will never, win a profession level event. Meta calls can certainly be important.

No question about it, my Yidris list is NOT going to recover. It's not designed to, it doesn't intend to. It's kind of a stat check deck. "Does any one have an immediate answer on turn 2? No? Ok, I win." I'm definitely a player that prefers more conservative style decks, but you can't always play just one thing and one style. It's fun to mix it up and when I'm going for a more all in style I'm going 100% all in on whatever it is the deck is supposed to do and I'm going to do it as fast as it's possible to do and damn the consequences. You either got an answer, or ya don't. The hilarious thing about that list is that it generally takes 3 working together to stop it. It's a threat to win every single turn the second it untaps and if people ran out of resources without winning themselves than it just means the umpteenth attempt is the charm. All it needs is a Yidris swing and a single spell that's usually 1 cmc.

July 11, 2019 10:05 a.m.

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Finished Decks 20
Prototype Decks 1
Drafts 0
Playing since Limited Edition Beta
Points 1580
Avg. deck rating 3.89
T/O Rank 46
Helper Rank 36
Favorite formats Commander / EDH, Modern, Limited
Good Card Suggestions 19
Venues Houston
Last activity 12 hours
Joined 8 months
MTGO Username JayMC1130