Maybe a moderator / admin can enable it for you? I know we need to have links enabled for like YouTube and stuff. Maybe it's the same for images, too?
August 2, 2020 5:52 p.m.
jaymc1130 do you happen to have two younger brothers whose names start with the first letter as yours? Just asking, I know a guy who loves Star Wars and MTG.
August 2, 2020 4:56 p.m.
I clearly also misread some of the comments (that I believed were outside context, but may not be due to what I was told), so I am not in the right entirely either, again, apologies. I want to speak to both of them to clear this all up!
July 31, 2020 1:22 p.m.
I just happened to be online, have taken some management classes when I was training for HR (didn't enjoy the job enough in practice to take it, but the training was super useful) and also am sort of friends with them both. I don't know, perhaps more could be wrong with this than I know, but I want to give them some time to cool for this all to make more sense, right? Thank you too, having another level head is nice xD
July 31, 2020 3:47 a.m.
Not gonna lie, love the initiative, but sadly I was trying to remain on top of it, and didn't want to bring any more comments about it to the forum, sadly, with you typing that I think I needed to post about it off individual pages, which I don't want to do, as I respect and think I am reasonably friends with both RambIe and , as they are both people that have interesting points and concerns with the community.
No hate, but the comment you made pointed your view of the situation, making the drama that might occur possibly much more widespread, rather than just some page comments, some mediation, and 1-2 comments on that forum post.
I am sorry, but I'd ask in the future when mediating (a great skill more forum users should learn, thank you!) that you ask the individuals in question, for example if you posted that comment to he could see your concern and chat with you for more context, however as he is a forum moderator, and a public community member, he has to make sure he doesn't come across as biased and in more people seeing and having their attention brought to this, he has to make a post on this topic immediately, not letting anyone cool down.
It puts a clock on a relatively low-drama situation, escalating it. For right now I recommend only chatting if it gets worse, both of them are mature people that are good at having level heads, so I think they can deal with any little drama that comes up!
July 31, 2020 3:31 a.m.
jaymc1130 Don't worry, has always been a mellow person and quite intelligent in our interactions, as it appears to be in yours. There is a little more context to this! I'll write it up, as I know both of them and actually agree with both RambIe and in this matter!
July 31, 2020 3:19 a.m.
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In the mono black variants Tinybones was definitely more consistent about generating value since it was always accessible from the command zone, and it's definitely more of a cog in the machine in an Abzan shell like this as you alluded to. Much more difficult for that specific card to maximize it's potential, but most of what I think I was looking for from Tinybones in this list is to function in a capacity as a complementary piece to the discard axis of play. Trying to get out some of the more capable discard elements in combination with one of the "reward for opposing discard" elements such as Tinybones is enough to generate a relatively reliable and consistent play pattern that tries to let the deck "loot" or draw ouright while strangling opposing hands. The concept isn't quite where I'd want it to be for competitive purposes yet, in either mono black or Bx shells, so there's still work to do. I got the chance to do some testing today and checked out a couple of options, but it'll be a while before everything that has potential to be an option has had a chance to get a look.
August 5, 2020 12:09 a.m.
As a first go at porting a discard control concept into additional colors there's still a long way to go before I think this idea could be anywhere near as refined as the other 20 or 30 decks I regularly play in cEDH settings. Any scrap of information or knowledge is going to be helpful in getting this closer to where I'd like it to be and I'm happy to see I asked questions of the right people since I've now got some additional resources to take a look at for inspiration. Much appreciated.
As far as the question of why not just Nath Stax, well, it's been done. It's a fairly standardized list at this point and, in true competitive settings the deck is pretty lackluster (in fact very lackluster), posting a sub 15% win rate according to our data with just a hair under 100 total games recorded. Most dedicated stax concepts perform at a relatively similar level in competitive settings and we've accumulated well over 2000 games worth of tracked data within our playgroup at this point in the last almost 3 years. Mostly the ineffectiveness of these types of concepts comes from their inability to develop advantageous board states as quickly as the most powerful contenders in the meta (Nath actually does ok at this with access to green ramp sources), but also how slow and inconsistent many stax type pieces are in terms of performance. The best performing pieces are asymmetrical in effect and hate out universal lines of play that lead to advantageous game states for any deck (limiting card draw, limiting library searches, limiting graveyard access, limiting usability of a deck's ramp sources). At this point that's really the reason for choosing Tymna more than anything else, she's a proven commodity with a measurable net positive expected win rate value that enables play along the axis of attrition by acquiring additional resources to match opposing decks (the draw trigger is a very nice complement to the powerhouse control engine that is Geth's Grimoire+Words of Waste as well as it provides a means of consistently engaging the mass discard lines of play the turn those cards are played since she'll often be out on turn 2, though this play pattern is currently slower than our data suggests is competitively ideal).
I'm definitely not satisfied yet with a "no combo win line" list, that just strikes me as a stretch. There are some decks that do manage to perform decently with a primarily combat based game plan (Yuriko and Najeela certainly come to mind, though both prove the concept falls short of top tier) and this list might be capable of a similar feat, but it feels like there should be some combo oriented options that fit within the concept to run as side line game plans. I've definitely got some Raz reanimation lines on my radar for testing, the colors allow access to some other reanimation loop lines as well.
The Drannith Mask lock combo stikes me as interesting. I'll have to give that option a few looks in testing as well. My gut tells me that dividing attention to multiple lock out concepts will decrease overall deck performance consistency, but there's really no way to truly tell without getting in some games and acquiring some data.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Tinybones in mono black shells as well mate, there are certainly issues mono colored decks have from a competitive standpoint and I haven't worked with mono black enough to know these drawbacks as intimately as I do for mono green or mono blue.
August 4, 2020 11:51 a.m.
I'll definitely have to add it to the list of cards that needs testing. One of the things that's definitely bugging me right now is just how little the deck is able to interact with opposing threats directly.
August 4, 2020 11:15 a.m.
Squadron Hawk is very near and dear to my heart from the Caw Blade era about a decade ago. So much value, so much consistency.
Goblin Sharpshooter really pushed the goblin tribal decks into top tier competitive around the Mirrodin era and this was the deck that earned me my first GP day 2.
Taiga was the first dual land I ever cracked in a pack. 4 packs later I got a second copy. No 8 year old has ever been happier than I was in that moment.
Frost Lynx has always seemed to be a good luck charm for me in drafts and I've earned many, many a tournament win IRL and online piloting decks that ran a couple copies over the last decade or so.
August 4, 2020 3:53 a.m.
Been playtesting a bit with Tinybones and discard axis concepts the last week or so, and the one thing I've found to be the most powerful play pattern possible within the concept is the combination of Geth's Grimoire or Waste Not and Words of Waste. The discard angle of attack is very potent when you can use the additional draws from one or the other to trigger multiple Words of Waste activations in one go to mass discard all opposing hands and basically lock them out of ever having resources in hand to do anything relevant from that moment on. This trio feels very much like a must run for concepts playing along that axis.
How's the deck been faring in general for you and what cards have felt like they've offered solid performance within the concept so far?
Oh, and before I forget I've been playing around with some mono black lists that didn't quite leave me satisfied so I'm doing more watching of your list (and other mono black lists) while I branched out to try to apply the concept in additional color shells. The one I worked on today and played around with some is here: Abzan Attrition. I'd definitely be interested to hear your thoughts on how discard oriented concepts could be competitive in both mono black and Bx shells.
August 4, 2020 1:42 a.m.
I've been brewing with Tinybones, Trinket Thief for a little over a week now and never quite felt satisfied with how the mono black variant was performing against top tier competitive decks. Partly, I'm sure, because the concept is still pretty fresh and many options are still unexplored, but perhaps also partly because of the limitations brought on by being a mono colored deck in an environment that tends to heavily punish such decks in competitive settings. I've been checking up on your list and a handful of other community member's lists as well and was hoping to pick your brains a bit about Tinybones in general, what you think about the limitations of mono black discard oriented decks in cEDH settings, and the validity of trying such concepts within additional color shells such as I've tried here today with this bad boy: Abzan Attrition.
August 4, 2020 1:15 a.m.
Oh yeah, Trade Routes has been a card I've loved for a long time. I've played it in so many decks I can't even remember them all. I very much remember wishing the card had been legal when Mirari's Wake was a top tier deck because I felt like it would have been a strict upgrade over Compulsion in most games since I was often discarding excess lands, but Masques had rotated and it would be a while until it got it's first reprint in 8th Edition. Super nifty card in certain situations and once the Mystic Sanctuary land cycle got printed it became some very spicy tech indeed for edh in both competitive and casual settings.
August 3, 2020 9:46 p.m. Edited.
So, trying to come up with some budget style upgrades that won't break the bank but still pack some firepower isn't super easy. Top of the library effects that would be easy to abuse with Yennet, Cryptic Sovereign don't tend to come cheap. There's obviously Sensei's Divining Top and Scroll Rack style pieces, but those lean toward the expensive side and for some players might just be their entire mtg card purchase budget for the whole year.
But this doesn't mean there aren't some tools in the budget range.
Scheming Symmetry is a terrible tutor, but is one that you could easily break parity on given the commander.
Mystical Tutor is a bit more expensive at the close to $15 dollar mark, but not a terribly pricey piece. It's also a piece you'll get a lot of use out of for a lot of decks you might build in the future so picking up a copy would be a good idea.
Isochron Scepter pairs nicely with the tutor and is also an options that might see widespread use in future builds in roughly the same price range. Being able to tutor odd cmc spells to cast for free every turn would be a big boost in power for about $30 spent.
Nexus of Fate looks like a perfect fit for your deck. It's got an odd cmc and can be cast for free, isn't very expensive last I checked, and provides one helluva win condition. Particularly if paired with the above mentioned cards where you can indefinitely loop it every single turn for just a couple mana.
Mystic Sanctuary is a no brainer for less than the cost of a pack of gum. Putting odd cmc spells back on top of the library to cast a second time for free? Yes please.
Trade Routes is a particularly nifty pairing here with Mystic Sanctuary. You could set up infinite turn loops by using this combo in tandem with Nexus of Fate and Scheming Symmetry for example, cast the tutor, put Nexus on top, swing, casting Nexus. Pay 1 to bounce the Sanctuary, play the Sanctuary putting the tutor back on top of the library from the graveyard. Go to next turn, draw the tutor, rinse and repeat, no one else even gets to make use of the cards they tutor for except you.
You could probably add all of these cards for less than the cost of a single Sensei's Divining Top from the right vendor and bump up the power level of the deck quite a bit. Your friends, however, might hate you for it. So uh, yeah, be careful.
August 3, 2020 9:19 p.m.
Almost 30 years playing this game and I still learn new rules stuff constantly. Partly because they seem to change a lot over time, but also because new interactions need to be defined as new cards get printed.
I only just found out that you can cast morph creatures off the top of the library with Mystic Forge like 2 weeks ago, which seems crazy as the cards have a color identity while in your library, but apparently the moment you choose to cast a morph creature in an alternative fashion other than normal casting it ceases to be a colored card and becomes colorless as of the decision to cast it which is apparently the timing for when Mystic Forge checks to see if the card is colorless. Supposedly this was a change to make things function more intuitively the way the new Adventure creatures function (where the decision to cast the card determines it's characteristics) but none of this strikes me as intuitive or even fundamentally sound. In any case, that's how those rules now work and when I learned about the Mystic Forge interaction I just sat staring at my computer screen with my jaw hanging open for a good 10 minutes while I scratched my head. This stuff can be crazy hard to keep up with, I don't envy tournament judges.
August 3, 2020 8:48 p.m.
DeinoStinkus is correct, token permanents that are sacrificed or otherwise sent to the graveyard do indeed hit the graveyard. They exist there for a brief moment and then almost immediately cease to exist in that zone as a state based effect regarding the fate of tokens in zones other than the battlefield.
August 3, 2020 8:33 p.m.
Fetches have gone pretty crazy with the price tags. I'm pretty lucky in that I've been playing for almost 30 years with my brother and our playgroup all playing that for that long. We've assembled an absolutely massive collection and have a playset of almost every card outside the power 9. I think we have 2 Timetwisters and that's all we own from that group of cards. When fetches were first printed we did something we often did with cards we expected to hold significant long term value and just mass traded for them while they were relatively cheap. Probably the most memorable execution of this tactic was when we collected 47 Chrome Moxen within a month of the card being printed while we attended PTQs, GPs, and the one PT. Being part of a trusted group can really help ease the investment cost burden of collecting more expensive pieces.
August 3, 2020 6:54 p.m.
Makes sense. All good as long as I get more. :)
August 3, 2020 6:47 p.m.
There's a couple of reasons to always try and include 8-10 fetch lands in competitive lists.
First, it helps decks be as consistent as possible in terms of opening hands and opening turn land drops that are able to provide the required colors of mana for advantageous development play patterns.
Second, it helps thin out the deck. Not a ton of help in this regard in a 100 card singleton format, but every little bit helps.
And fourth, in this particular list there is the niche application of consistently putting Islands into play with a higher number of fetch lands to help empower High Tide lines of play.
Ultimately, decks without access to green miss out on probably the best reason to run a high number of fetches as they won't have access to green mana dorks or the Bloom Combo package (although Crucible of Worlds is still accessible) that really abuses fetch lands with multiple land drops per turn to gain massive developmental advantages that make it exceedingly difficult for non green decks to compete in grindier affairs.
August 3, 2020 6:36 p.m.
I think of all the tracks (which I often now listen to on repeat when I'm not jamming stuff from youtube or my computer library) the one I like best is "And There She Was". Definitely my favorite so far.
August 3, 2020 6:05 p.m.
Haven't checked out the article, but I always found it a little suspect that much of what was new from Future Sight would ever make it into far future sets. I rather always figured the aspects of that set most likely to be part of future print runs was the art/card styles and not so much the mechanics.
August 3, 2020 5:48 p.m.
I get where you're coming from, but it's still always sad to see community members leave.
I was part of the League of Legends Riot hosted website forums for almost a decade and participated in it daily, helped moderate it for a time, and was instrumental in a number of reforms including initiating community moderators. Unfortunately that forum was plagued with issues, divisiveness and toxicity were rampant, Riot essentially didn't care about their own platform, and community members often left for various reasons. The entire site was demolished earlier in the year (though I'd already left the site myself some time before for many of the reasons listed) and I couldn't help but feel immensely saddened by the loss.
I think it's in the nature of the internet as a platform that the bad comes along with the good (just as it does in real life) and sometimes this can be bittersweet, or even intolerable for some folks. The world might be a mostly negative place filled with mostly negative people, but there are always positive things and individuals among it all that are very much worth the time and energy invested to discover them. I hope your future away from Tapped Out is filled with wonderful new things and that, in time, you might find your way back here if the circumstances allow it.
Best wishes mate, and good luck.
August 3, 2020 5:38 p.m.
I think it has a lot to do with power levels of the characters themselves.
Think about characters in the X-Men universe, they are all so inherently powerful with capabilities normal humans could never possess.
Same for a lot of Super man characters.
And the same for most Marvel or DC properties.
By contrast, a lot of the characters in the Spiderman and Batman universes are much closer to normal humans in terms of their inherent capabilities. This makes these characters a lot more relatable, obviously, and in some cases just flat out more interesting. Superman is so OP that it's difficult to feel he's ever truly under threat of anything dangerous. Batman is just a smart, well trained dude with some technical savvy and a vast monetary fortune, so a lot of the situations Batman finds himself in feel much more dangerous for the character and the same goes for his opposing numbers.
Naturally, there are some examples in each of these respective properties that don't follow this general script, Bane is pretty OP and Hawkeye is pretty UP, but for the most part, to me at least, this is what makes the cast of characters for both Spiderman and Batman more compelling as narrative devices.
August 2, 2020 9:29 p.m.
I think such combinations could indeed be highly competitive, but there's really no way to tell without first establishing the format rules and then, ya know, playing the format. Lol. It does seem like a powerful idea though given the initial format rule considerations.
I think I like the idea of a "Chariot" format having something like "Chariot Armor" damage being a restriction to limit the effectiveness of some alternative win conditions that are ever-present in Commander. If a player is required to lose their "Chariot Armor" and be dealt some amount of damage from specific sources before being able to lose the match (unless the loss is self inflicted) then it would open up a completely new meta space of game play patterns that aren't present in any other format and would be very interesting.
I find the idea of including equipment in the command zone quite interesting as well. Having now been turned on to this possibility I'm wondering would it be nice to have an equipment or a vehicle in the command zone or might it be even better to require both a "Chariot" vehicle AND a "Chariot Weapon" equipment in the command zone together? I rather like the idea of stressing combat based strategies in a multiplayer format similar to Commander since the Commander format is largely an ineffective meta space for combat based strategies, particularly in competitive settings.
August 2, 2020 6:10 p.m. Edited.
Presumably, yeah, I'd have to have it enabled. Maybe one day I'll take the time to inquire about it. I think I posted on yeaGO's page once about it like a year or more ago and then never got around to checking up on it until just now. I guess that it wasn't enabled.
August 2, 2020 5:54 p.m.
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SCORE: 4 | 2 COMMENTS | 320 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
|Playing since||Limited Edition Beta|
|Avg. deck rating||5.17|
|Favorite formats||Commander / EDH, Modern, Limited|
|Good Card Suggestions||32|
|Last activity||12 hours|