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|Commander (2016 Edition)||Rare|
|Duels of the Planeswalkers||Rare|
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Return all creatures to their owners' hands.
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1 week ago
No problem! ;) I'm glad to be helpful.
I'm running Tezzeret, Master of Metal and this weekend I took my copy of Tezzeret the Seeker from my Brago deck to try it out in Breya (and I didn't really need to try it because I know it should be in there). Master of Metal is cool, but not straight up necessary. It gets worse as your meta gets faster, not only because it just slowly provides card advantage, but because the real use of it's minus ability will never be game ending unless you are already one on one, and in Breya by my experience that means the game is not going too well anyway. I will change my deck a bit and include both, but between one or another (and regarding the fact that you can only keep one of them on the battlefield at the same time) I'd always favor Tezzeret the Seeker because it tutors for your combo pieces for "free". As for Darksteel Forge, I'm not a huge fan of it, but I get that some people include it in Breya decks. I favor recrusion over indestructibility (especially because there are always cards like Merciless Eviction and such), but if you feel like you can spare a slot for it, yes it definitely doesn't hurt you.
About being the target, I usually deal with that running different decks. And if you are thinking of building new decks, I'd definitely recommend it to change things up a bit and make the games more about fun and less about "you win everytime so we are gonna kill you first". You can end up winning with a different deck anyway, but the games feel different, and so you become the target less often.
There is no particular answer to that problem in deckbuilding, sure you can defend yourself by building your deck in such a way that your opponents' typical answers to you don't hurt you that much, but that will lower the overall power of your deck, and turn it into a dud against most other playgroups if you tend to play with different people. I've been dealing with this problem with my Marchesa, the Black Rose deck. It is very sub-optimal as a deck. Budget and not that fast, but once I build up a board, people get frightened and try to kill me. I've tried to change the deck, even made a quicker version of it with proxies so I could maybe outpace that table alliance against me, but nothing can really deal with that once your playgroup hits a certain power level. Maybe Brago Stax, or a super fast Narset deck can do good in an Archenemy-like game because they are so broken and powerful, but in my experience that is not that fun when you really want to play EDH. So after all this rant, what I want to get across is that whatever you do, with whatever deck you play, it's hard to overcome the table turning against you by building differently.
It depends on each meta, but in my case I think I'll be running Torrential Gearhulk, Evacuation and a suite of countermagic and removal, that will help me not only protect myself and my combos better, but also get the most out of my resources. I'll DM you as soon as I change my list with some tips if you feel like that can help you as well. This is not a way to deal with your problem directly, since it is a way to make the deck stronger as a whole anyway, that incidentally might deal with that problem. But as I said, above a certain power level, that might protect you better, but not make a huge dent on your opponents.
You can try and make deals while playing, be political, to avoid all of your opponents to turn against you, or at least have some kind of protection to buy you enough time to win on a combo.
Also, since your main win cons are combos, I'd keep my shields up. I personally rarely attack with my own Breya deck, that dissuades people from coming at you, and makes you less of a menace while you're not touching any of them in particular.
But mostly, I'd really recommend you try different decks, even budget ones, or high concept ones, even if you just proxy them for one or two games once in a while. The fact that you have the ability to change how the game feels, makes people less aggressive towards you even if you are the strongest player, and overall makes the playgroup healthier (and when playing a combo deck, keeps less informed players forgetting of your win conditions :) which is also nice!). I'd recommend you check out Omnath, Locus of Rage and Nekusar, the Mindrazer as potential budget commanders (that aren't very encouraging to attack into as well) if you want to build a deck for that matter, and obviously, each commander deck release from WotC is a cheap way to play something different usually.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't play Breya, you definitely should, I'm just saying that she's one of the most underrated generals out there, and once people see how powerful she can be, they tend to get salty and target you naturally - again my own experience, I play a Narset deck, and I tried it out for the first time with a playgroup I had never played against. As soon as they saw Narset they said to each other "We've got to kill that one first!" and I've never been able to even cast Narset against them because of that. My deck is not that powerful, but since they've played against broken Narset decks, they target me as a precaution. I believe that Breya will sometimes get the same treatment if people played against her before, but I don't believe you should change your deck almost like you're sideboarding it against hate, just to deal with that. At least I wouldn't. Personally I try to show people something like "see, I'm just here to have fun, if you don't like Breya I'll even play something else, but let me play the game too". I'm sorry I went on a huge rant, but this is hard to explain and it often becomes a taboo-like issue that tears some playgroups apart. If people don't enjoy playing against something and take revenge instead of talking about it, it's hard to have fun games, so keep that in mind and try to change things up sometimes if you feel you're being hate-targeted too often.
2 weeks ago
Also, I feel like Plaguemaw Beast is going to disappoint you: I've never gottan much use out of creatures with tap activated abilities. EDH is a wasteland of boardwipes and control, so far more often than not, it'll die before you get a chance to activate it. I'd recommend Throne of Geth instead. Or even Steady Progress. And definitely Clockspinning. MAYBE Gilder Bairn?? Your Mileage may vary.
3 weeks ago
No worries Traveler247 I took everything you said as constructive criticism in the original post. Thanks for the follow up and clarifications. Definitely some good suggestions I will think on. It also forced me to take another look at the deck list.
I like your call out on Venser, the Sojourner - you're right in that he's probably not that great of value for how late he shows up. Eerie Interlude has my attention as a good replacement candidate, because I don't think I run enough colorless (or any waste) lands to abuse Eldrazi Displacer which would be a good effect for effect replacement.
In my review I also found Augury Owl that I'm beginning to question. One weakness the deck has is to flyers, but I'm questioning how much value I'm really getting out of the owl. Scry can let me fix a bad opening hand, otherwise late game it has little value. Even Elvish Visionary for the draw 1 might be a better choice, although Parallax Wave and Portcullis have me thinking too
I hear you on Evacuation. I mostly run the permanent bounce to deal with my meta's heavy artifact based ramp and other enchantment heavy decks. I have a copy kicking around somewhere so I'll probably sideboard it as a reminder of something to think about.
Birthing Pod is tempting now that it's not stupidly overpriced. It definitely is a powerful piece to think about.
I think your analysis of what my deck is hits it on the head: "Budget conscious and counterspell free". I've contemplated putting Venser, Shaper Savant and Glen Elendra Archmage in to the package, but I've never been willing to open that door. Instead, I went and built All Your Base Are Belong To Us should I get the itch to play counterspell magic. From what I've seen, Flicker musters a pretty good response to most decks in its budget range, but there's always room for improvement. Also, every deck will have its weaknesses that can't be overcome (that's why we all own more than one deck, right?)
A big thanks to you again for the time and the great feedback! Provided I can find your version of the deck here on the site, I will be looking at it shortly
3 weeks ago
Hey! First off, I re-read my comment, and I think I sounded rude, so I want to apologize for that. I was falling asleep writing my last comment and wasn't really able to accurately gauge the tone of my writing.
Second off, I want to address a few over-arching aspects of constructing a flicker deck. There are two general design elements I want to bring up that change the direction of the deck: how many counterspells, if any, do you want to run; and how focused are you going to be on infinite combos. Your deck, right now, does not have a single way to directly interact with anything on the stack, which includes counterspells. You also have what I would consider a moderate focus on infinite combos. Finally, I would say that your deck has a budget. Nothing too prohibitive, but I don't see Survival of the Fittest, Gilded Drake, or Palinchron in there. I play a counterspell heavy, combo intensive, lower curved, and less budget restrictive bant flicker deck. That is the direction my suggestions will take your deck, so if that is not the direction you want to go, take my suggestions with a grain or five of salt.
Third, in my experience this deck's weaknesses are: surviving the early game, Torpor Orb and Hushwing Gryff, Competitive Combo/Control or Stax decks, and board wipes (unless you have adequate recursion, and then opponents having graveyard hate is problematic). I am going to specifically address how cards help combat each of these weaknesses except the competitive decks. You lose to those. That's fine, this isn't the archetype to take to that table.
Now, you asked about the "multiple weaker cards" that I mentioned. I honestly don't have much for you that I can just point to and say is weak in the deck. It's a solid build. Here are the few cards I am comfortable saying have stronger options within budget: Telling Time, Oblivion Ring, Wash Out, Foresee, and Displacement Wave.
Ok, let's get into a bit more meat now and break down your deck.
ETB abusers in the deck:
Venser, the Sojourner - I found that this was basically the same as Conjurer's Closet except that it had the potential to ultimate (which usually wins), but every time I played venser it died, and I suspect it's the same for you. As a flicker engine, both this and Conjurer's Closet were too slow for me. Yeah, they give you a bit each turn, but I always found that I needed more upfront impact.
Panharmonicon - I have never played with this card. I built bant flicker about a year before Roon was released, and I haven't played EDH for over a year. This card seems ridiculously powerful to me, but I have no experience with it.
Deadeye Navigator - Obviously amazing.
Cloudstone Curio - I have never played with this card either. It always seemed a bit slow to me, but it's obviously a combo piece in your deck.
Devastation Tide - I want to compare this directly to Evacuation. This hits more targets, but is at sorcery speed. If you add more instant speed shenanigans, Evacuation gets insane and is clearly better. Otherwise, this card is a solid option.
Displacement Wave - I have never played with this card. It seems like a worse Devastation Tide, which to me seems like a worse Evacuation. Again, I just want more instants.
ETB abusers not in the deck:
Parallax Wave - This card is one of my favorites. It can be Fog, Rescue, Eerie Interlude, or a bit of each. It's amazing early because it can stop most attackers for one or two turns, and it's amazing late because it can flicker five guys. Seriously, if you haven't messed with this, do so.
Portcullis - This card is also one of my favorites. Locks down the early game extremely effectively, and every creature you put under it triggers both when you play it and when it returns. The goal of ETB decks is to get to the late game. This is a one card train to get there.
Evacuation - I like instant speed, as you've probably noticed. Hence this. You get a ton of value by re-using all of your ETBs and it sets everyone else back.
Phantasmal Image - Combo piece with Palinchron, tutorable with Survival of the Fittest, does wonders with Birthing Pod, and is all around pretty amazing. The utility of this skittish two drop is astounding.
Karmic Guide - When you just play this, it's mediocre. But it has so many absolutely busted interactions with Reveillark, Birthing Pod, and Survival of the Fittest that a deck with those cards can abuse this to a ridiculous extent.
Birthing Pod - Woah baby. One of the best ETB engines I have ever played with. This card simply ends the game if left unanswered for a few turns in the right deck. And I think most decks are the right deck. If you don't believe, just try it.
Ephara, God of the Polis - I see that this was one of the cards you've tested and found underwhelming. I think that this card gets much stronger with a more developed control plan. If you add counterspells, I would suggest revisiting this card.
Momentary Blink - Cloudshift like effects are at best OK. They can save a creature, they can re-use an ETB effect in a pinch, and in general they have some good utility. Most of the time they simply aren't worth playing because the effect gained for it costing a card is not worth it. I think this card is just because you can do it twice. It does cost a lot of mana, but it really gives you a lot of options. Again, this card is stronger with a more control oriented deck.
Overall, I think your deck would be faster, more inevitable, and have a stronger late game with more of the abusers I mentioned above. As far as ETB targets, yours are pretty strong. Palinchron is incredible, but a bit pricey these days. That card was around $6 back when I bought it. Anyway, I want to address the cards I mentioned that you said you'd already tested.
Angel of Finality - In my opinion, this card is not as good in your deck because of Aluren. Stonecloaker is probably a better option. Also, Stonecloaker was too slow in my meta. Most of the time, there were numerous threatening cards in several graveyards that I wanted to deal with, and exiling cards one at a time simply wasn't effective enough.
Woodfall Primus - I suggested this only because it's a powerful creature and you seem to be open to playing cards with high mana costs. I haven't tested it much, i cut it from my deck very early because the cost was too high.
Acidic Slime - This is a versatile answer to a lot of problems. It's one of the lowest mana cost answers to lands that need to be dealt with, which were prevalent in my meta.
I think, overall, that your deck would be stronger with more instants, less sorceries, adding some counterspells, and adding more engines to abuse your ETB effects. Right now, most of your abuse of ETB creatures is centered around returning them to your hand and re-casting them. That takes a lot of mana, and is slower than it could be. Anyway, I could keep going, but basically I think you should build my deck! Haha, stuff it full of counterspells and combos, and spend another $400. Just kidding, don't do that. Not only is that just what I enjoy, but my opinion is based on my understanding of a complicated deck with numerous powerful options that has had a card banned and a few new powerhouses added since I last played it.
Again, it's a fun archetype, and I like your take on it! Hopefully some of these ideas will be relevant to the direction you're going, and I hope it comes out well!
3 weeks ago
For a wheel deck you don't run a lot of wheels,
Is this a French list? I can't help but notice the large amount of permission and spot removal, but a lack of board wipes (which are very important for multiplayer spell decks
What I learned from my years of playing nekusar is that a wheel deck works best when it functions without nekusar and he is simply a bonus, as you are mostly spells,you want the deck to function by itself, And if you took nekusar out of the picture (also common cuz of how common creature removal Is, and after a few casts he gets pricy) then cards like Curiosity, Helm of the Ghastlord, and Glistening Oil become obsolete when you can simply cast a game changer like Evacuation,Cyclonic Rift, Blasphemous Act, Damnation or Toxic Deluge, resolve an Underworld Dreams Dream Halls or Liliana's Caress and chain of wheels for lethal
I would recommend more hard wheels for efficiency, such as Reforge the Soul, Dark Deal, Winds of Change, Windfall as well as ways to copy Memory Jar and Teferi's Puzzle Box as well as any mana rocks such as Copy Artifact, Goblin Welder, Phyrexian Metamorph and Sculpting Steel.
3 weeks ago
Traveler247 Thanks for taking a moment to look at the deck. Omniscience and Aluren are part of what makes this deck unique. I don't see a lot of folks running them, and I've done some pretty interesting (and brutal) things with each. Especially before having Peregrine Drake around they were good sources of my infinite combos.
I see quite a few cards in your suggestion list that I've play tested over time. Things like Angel of Finality, Woodfall Primus, Archaeomancer, Acidic Slime, Karmic Guide, Ephara, God of the Polis, and Evacuation. I agree each is a good suggestion in it's own right, although they're cards that I've chosen to remove for a variety of reasons.
I see you mentioned "multiple weaker cards" - any cards in particular that you think are worth cutting outright? Usually the deck plays out by holding board presence with the early creatures and sweeper/bounce effects until I can establish position with some of my combo cards. Roon is often an afterthought at best in many of the games I play, as I'm too busy ramping and controlling the board.
I will say I've never worried much about infinite turns since I can almost always leave my opponents with zero permanents using terrastodon and one of the many creatures I have around that exile on ETB to clear the tokens (or a well played bounce spell like Wash Out targeting green). My biggest challenge is usually having sufficient cards in hand (which is where I sometimes question the cheap draw spells like Ponder, Preordain, etc.) They're great early game but mid to end game I often have plenty of mana and need more gas. These leave me feeling a little short. I've found Blue Sun's Zenith is too heavily color costed. I know Time Reversal benefits more than just me, but I've always found it to be great value to reload my hand and force an opponent to shuffle whatever he may be sitting on. Any thoughts or suggestions you have relative to this would be interesting to hear.
Glad you liked the deck, it's a real joy to play and has led to some shocking wins.
3 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
Your deck is really interesting. You run two cards that are expensive but definitely aren't all-stars for this archetype: Omniscience and Aluren. Aluren only has 15 targets, so its benefit to your opponents might not be worth the mana and card investment taken to cast it for you. That said, both of those cards have a nice synergy with Cloudstone Curio. Neither of those cards are bad in the deck, and I definitely wouldn't cut them as there are multiple weaker cards, but they are just some really interesting inclusions.
Suggestions:Angel of Finality, Gilded Drake, Archaeomancer, Parallax Wave, Duplicant, Woodfall Primus, Palinchron, Phantasmal Image, Acidic Slime, Reclamation Sage, Momentary Blink, Portcullis, Birthing Pod, Karmic Guide, Reveillark, Survival of the Fittest, Fauna Shaman, Time Warp, Ephara, God of the Polis, Mulldrifter, Saffi Eriksdotter, Venser, Shaper Savant, Eladamri's Call, Evacuation, Cryptic Command.
Relevant Combos in that list: Eternal Witness or Archaeomancer + Time Warp, Phantasmal Image + Palinchron, any two of Reveillark, Saffi Eriksdotter, or Karmic Guide and a sac outlet such as Phyrexian Altar.
Nice list mate! Cheers, and happy deckbuilding!