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Time Walk Discussion
2 weeks ago
I think you need some sweepers here to keep the aggro decks in check. The low curve Ramunap Red style decks will run through you and it's possible the pirates, vampires or dinos come in with solid curve-out style. I would recommend Bontu's Last Reckoning since you have so much Treasure as a resource anyway. Efficient kill spells like Fatal Push seem super good here. Depths of Desire is basically better than Time Walk for you in this build. I would up the Spell Swindle and Tezzeret the Schemer. Heck, I'm going to build something similar since I too am in love with this idea.I managed to draft Revel in Riches, Spell Swindle and Ruthless Knave last week with 2 each Deadeye Plunderers, Depths of Desire and Sailor of Means. I also had Contract Killing, which I totally understand not making it from limited to Standard, but you're going to need more removal than what I see here. I DO love it though.
Torrential Gearhulk makes sense, but of course that Budget...
3 weeks ago
Before anything thanks for taking time to post a reply!
This deck is not built to be played as a Blood Moon list with Madcap Experiment - if that was the goal, i would ditch Platinum Angel without a second thought, to play Platinum Emperion.
The deck is a combo/prison deck built to abuse Platinum Angel
So lets take pros, and cons compared to the emperion:
- if the creature leaves the battlefield there is a big chance of game loss on the spot.
- it dies to Dismember
- deals less damage when it gets in
+ has flying to prevent getting chumped
+ prevents game loss to infect counters (that is relevant due to Inkmoth Nexus)
+ can win by "milling", after the enemy gained infinite life
+ Pact of Negation becomes a free counter
+ Glorious End - "the jank" - becomes Time Walk / exile the stack if i have angel in play by next end step.
+ Earthquake becomes Bonfire of the Damned when the angel is in play
Otherwise Earthquake is just a boardwipe, that costs me life, and one that can be redirected to planeswalkers, but i would not call it bad due the combination of being able to cripple decks that go all out on the board early, and being a late game win condition.
I agree that Abrade looks as questionable as a card can get - if we are talking about modern.
However its a must have for me to have ways to deal with Grafdigger's Cage & Aether Vial. The problems caused by the former are pretty obvious, the latter creates enormous problem by putting in play stuff like Flickerwisp or Harbinger of the Tides.
I play abrade because its the cheapest creature removal that doubles as artifact destruction in colors of the deck.
There may be an argument to replace some of them with Kolaghan's Command - but i fail to see how Lightning Bolt could fill the same role.
I am also really curious what is behind your judgement regarding Pieces of the Puzzle - in my opinion its one of the best cards that have been printed lately. And its exactly what i want to do on turn 3.
Drawing my counterspells, or madcap experiments, to cast when i get to 4 mana on the next turn. And it can be recast with our good old friend Snapcaster Mage for 5 mana.
So Glorious End...
Time Walk, or countering Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Supreme Verdict, or all copies of Grapeshot from the stack, or the Liliana of the Veil's -6 when the opponent cashes in, is not something i would call "jank", or unplayable.
Of course that is only my humble opinion.
1 month ago
I wrote a bit comment and it got eaten by TappedOut. So, apologies for the brevity on this rewrite. These are a few suggestions based on a similar deck of mine.
- Mind's Desire and Temporal Fissure are both excellent storm payoffs. The former is one of the best hits from Epic Experiment and the latter can bounce every land as a pseudo Time Walk if you need to swing with tokens.
- Sphinx-Bone Wand and Docent of Perfection Flip are two additional options for win-cons if you so desire.
- Pull from the Deep and Mystic Retrieval are good options for re-casting your rituals/untap effects
- More free spells like Frantic Search or Rewind might be worth it. The latter can at worst counter your own spells with High Tide.
- I personally really like Eye of the Storm. It's expensive, it can backfire, but if you untap with it, it's almost impossible to lose. It goes effectively infinite with a lot of cards.
- Mizzix of the Izmagnus is almost definitely worth it.
- I think the 1-shot token producers are probably not that great. They're reasonably good with Purphoros, but I don't think that's worth 6 slots in the deck. Don't worry about creature count in Melek. A lot of Melek decks actually go creatureless for the Proteus Staff combo.
- Phyrexian Altar is probably really borderline unless you're running something like Fall of the Titans to just win without having to go an extra turn by saccing out all of your Empty the Warrens tokens.
- Strionic Resonator is at best a very situational fork in Melek. It's probably better to spend your mana on a cheap cantrip / draw spell like Gitaxian Probe or Treasure Cruise.
- Echo Mage is really expensive and vulnerable for its effect. You have to pump 7 mana and wait a turn to copy 1 spell. At that point, you're probably better off casting Eye of the Storm.
1 month ago
Time Walk is a sorcery, you can't put it on the scepter.
P.S. I don't see what the new Jace has to do with this
1 month ago
I am also building a very similar deck
It would be nice to have someone to brainstorm the deck with, so here are my two cents:
Flinging the Death's Shadow (or even including it in the deck) is a mistake.
Death's Shadow will not be bigger than 13/13, even if you have negative life total since the recent rules change
The problem is that once you play Madcap Experiment the game changes, the opponent wins on the spot if they are able to bounce, exile, or kill Platinum Angel so you have to hope they don't have more counters + relevant removal (like Path to Exile) than you have counters.
Remand is not a counterspell in this context, it only delays game loss a single turn.
Thoughtseize, like any other discard, is only good early game, late - mid game removal topdeck will slip by it and cause a game loss. (It gets worse the more cards the opponent draw, Dark Confidant can make it pretty much useless)
Pyretic Ritual's & Simian Spirit Guides are a recipe for disaster. Playing Madcap Experiment early, without counter back up is as bad as it gets.
In the end you have to decide. If you wan't to run a tempo list go with Platinum Emperion (maybe some Blood Moons), in rakdos, or izzet.
If you want to play Platinum Angel, you need to play control to do it effectively.
Of course it brings a whole bag of goodies with it Pact of Negation, Glorious End & Earthquake.
(It seems you don't realize the true potential of Glorious End it exiles the stack, meaning stuff like Supreme Verdict doesn't resolve, including abilities (so why Trickbind?), or when up against some crazy fast tunnel vision matchup like infect, it can be a Time Walk).
So in my experience Platinum Angel mandates a good counterspell package (preferrably hard counters), ways to prevent or deal with problematic permanents that can kill the angel once its on the field like:
Liliana of the Veil; Chandra, Torch of Defiance; Karn Liberated; Oblivion Stone
Against which Spell Pierce & Logic Knot do wonders.
Grafdigger's Cage and the combo of Aether Vial + Harbinger of the Tides/Flickerwisp
mandates some artifact removal
While Qasali Pridemage asks for creature removal
Abrade can play both role - but i have no plan for Seal of Primordium outside getting lucky by drawing one of my 3 Spell Pierces, however its not the most common hate.
The other bogey man of the deck is the draw-go control matchup since they can always win counter wars by having more removal + counterspells, than what this deck will ever be able to match (due having to devote spots for the angel and a way to put it in play).
The solution is to bait out some of the removal or counterspells then Extirpate it.
As an added benefit it also works on stuff that can be recurred from the grave like second casts of Ancient Grudge.
Blood Moon is good in this version too since it prevent stuff like Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle killing the angel, beside being a big hindrance to most deck in the format.
1 month ago
So if not a problem (maybe even if it is) i would share my ideas about it.
And have some mild hope to get a similar constructive criticism on my list in return - in the end it doesn't matter, as long the deck can improve n some way, i gladly offer any help, without reciprocation.
Pia and Kiran Nalaarare just win-more cards taking up valueable sideboard space
So in my experience the deck doesn't behave like a tempo build.
Its a lock deck, that must keep Platinum Angel on the battlefield or lose on the spot.
Thus he need for redundant removal like Roast; Harvest Pyre; Spontaneous Mutation; Threads of Disloyalty is minimal. And cards like Remand that can only delay the removal of the angel don't help much, since its unlikely that the dekc can win in that extra turn.
In general draw go control decks, and decks that can recur removal from the grave (like loam pox) are terrible matchups without some sideboard help. Extirpate solves both problems, since thanks to its split second it cannot be responded to while on the stack.
Thus it can rip out all copies of a single removal or counterspell if you can bait them to play it. Or it can effectively prevent the second (or first if its dredge) cast of stuff like Ancient Grudge from the opponent's deck.
I would run more artifact removal since both Grafdigger's Cage and the combo of Aether Vial + Flickerwisp/Tidebinder Mage lose us the game. I recommend replacing some mainboard Lightning Bolt for Abrade to be able to increase the number of artifact removal in the final 75.
Glorious End can counter anything (except stuff with split second), including stuff like Supreme Verdict, and has a secondary use, if you play it on your opponent third turn it can do its imitation of Time Walk - then you must follow up with Madcap Experiment on your fourth turn. This line is very good against fast linear strategies that can win very early, and lack removal for the angel.
The downside is that this card can't gain flashback, and that its dead without Madcap Experiment, still its worth some place in the 75 i think.
1 month ago
A good sideboard is important.
As stated in your description the deck can get free wins against deck that can't deal with Platinum Angel, sadly whats omitted is also true.
The removal of Platinum Angel from the battlefield - even temporarily - tend to result in a game loss resulting from state based effect instantly.
Your sideboard is pretty win more, as the deck has already a good inevitablity against decks that can't remove the angel, however adding tempo cards, to grind out faster victory against them gives up spots, that should be used, to help in matchups that are problematic.
And Remand despite its power and wide appeal in modern is pretty bad in the deck, since it can't win fast, and delaying removal a single turn doesn't help much when it will result in a game loss a turn later, using permanent solutions tends do be lot more effective.
Draw go control decks in general can pack more counterspells and removal than what we can match with counterspells of our own. And the deck doesn't have ways to deal with removal that can be recurred from the grave - Extirpate solves both problems (due split second it cen be used to extract baited out counters or removals from the opponent, while split second also protects from the opponent flashing back Ancient Grudge, in response to exiling it, like he could with Surgical Extraction).
Meanwhile artifact removal is desperately needed!
In the current state this build scoops to Grafdigger's Cage, Aether Vial can also be an unexpectedly big problem due to its interaction with Tidebinder Mage/Flickerwisp - as both are placed on the field before the deck has mana to counter them, and lead to game loss later.
I am a late advocate of playing Abrade in placec of Lightning Bolt in this deck (in the 75 anyways), since it can be used to bring the total number of artifact hate higher, which was pretty crucial in some matchups.
A sneaky Glorious End can do wonders against Supreme Verdict, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and the like - while it can help against linear deck who are lean on removal but can win out of nowhere. Since it can be used to Time Walk on their third turn, then we cast Madcap Experiment in our 4th turn preventing the resulting game loss.
It deserves some place in the final 75.
Last but not least i would highly appreciate if you would look at my deck and offer some constructive criticism.
1 month ago
You would only take one extra turn. The Emrakul ability triggers for the next turn and the next turn only. Not for two or more extra turns. Just how playing Time Walk twice in a turn would cause you to only take one extra turn