|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Future Sight (FUT)||Rare|
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Search target player's library for a card and remove that card from the game. Then that player shuffles his or her library.
Gravestorm (When you play this spell, copy it for each permanent put into a graveyard this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.)
Bitter Ordeal Discussion
1 week ago
These combos and or these cards
- Xathrid Necromancer
- Vela the Night-Clad
- Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle
- Judith, the Scourge Diva
- Eternal Witness
4 weeks ago
2 months ago
I played around with a similar build in my play group and had some feedback from experience:
This list runs a lot of targeted creature removal on high-cmc bodies, but lacks responses to non-creature-heavy decks. I put in Mesmeric Fiend and Thought-Knot Seer as more general removal instead of Duplicant and Ravenous Chupacabra . I usually ended up tutoring and reoccurring Meteor Golem , so even Noxious Gearhulk seemed a bit redundant. I'm considering replacing it with Brain Maggot .
Vulturous Aven surprised me and actually performed really well. With a few recursions, this was reliable, under-the-radar card draw that also acted as a sac-outlet for Kokusho, the Evening Star when reanimated together. Considering adding Dusk Legion Zealot and/or Disciple of Bolas for more ETB card draw. I might also replace Phyrexian Arena for another ETB card draw creature or probably just Dark Confidant
I put in Viscera Seer for the reliable, cheap sac outlet on a body (with card filtering).
When playing opponents' cards from Gonti, they go straight to their graveyards, which often creates a powerful disincentive to using the main ability of the deck. For graveyard control, I'm looking for a place for Heap Doll and Withered Wretch . This lets me play opponents' cards with Gonti and then instantly exile them before someone drops something like Snapcaster Mage.
Adjusted the land base and ramp to include Fellwar Stone , Exotic Orchard , and Mox Opal to give more options for using activated abilities of opponents' permanents. Used Gonti to steal a Deadeye Navigator , which was hilarious and awesome.
Finally, the real fun/value/intrigue of Gonti from the games I played revolved around the mystery of what cards I'd exiled with Gonti, and less on what goodstuff creatures might be lurking in my graveyard. My opponents were always flipping through their decks when they tutored, looking to see if I snatched away key cards. The combo players at the table were especially anxious. I loved it. I put in Praetor's Grasp and Bitter Ordeal to play to this strength.
Great deck and definitely recommend anyone checking out this list give it a shot!
2 months ago
I pitched the deck to a series of cedh players, who helped me to realise that this is a cool deck, but won't be pushing the upper bound of cedh any time soon. Similar to the "aggro decks struggle" argument, it's concluded that the lines necessary to facilitate a win require a lot to pull off. Primarily the lack of an a+b strategy. Ie: mikaeus + walking ballista also needs a sac outlet or a blood artist effect.
I'll be adding a brief to the description to say that this is currently not considered strong enough to be cedh viable (maybe in like a t2 pod, but it'll just fall to any hulk deck / pst etc.)
MediSyntax The manabase is a struggle to sac lands to lake of the dead at the moment. But a land that can answer leyline, rip AND grafdigger's cage? That's a solid yes.
After some deliberation Bitter Ordeal is in. It's a 3 card combo with our main engine and is interchangable with a lot of pieces. As praetor's grasp was best for hate before, it'll be replacing that F A S T.
It's likely that due to the gravehate that the format needs that we will be changing some of our value reanimation for reanimation that solves problem cards ie null rod / stony silence.
A lot of people are trying citadel, it seems neat, but I'd be reluctant to try it due to the heavy initial cost. Bontu is a consideration, for the mass draw potential, but as a legend it's holding him back. Liliana's triumph will be going in (too much value to pass up).
I've been glaring into the sun a lot - to the point that command the dreadhorde might be viable. Mostly due to the fact that we could return all of the pieces needed for a win on one card without the danger of sharing fun with your opponents (like living death).
2 months ago
Thanks for featuring me in!
Absolutely do not even consider cutting out Mesmeric Orb , it's god level mill right there: people cannot choose to not untap permanents, unless they don't tap them in the first place. So to counter such a play, they'd have to destroy/counter it or else... Stop playing? The auto mill hits you too, but you should be fine. Same goes to a lesser extent to Dreamborn Muse .
Bitter Ordeal is a fun card, plus it's a one hit kill with Traumatize / Fleet Swallower . Definitely worth a try. Plus, it removes threats, or simply remove all the good cards from your opponents' decks... So evil.
Are you sure about Kozilek, Butcher of Truth ? You are not an attacking deck and overall may need huge amounts of mana to cast it. If you only care about reshuffling your graveyard, the are other options that only shuffle one graveyard (yours), listed in the section The Bane of Your Existence in my decklist.
One last thing: are your land drops consistent overall? If not, I'd consider going up to 36 lands.
Keep up the good work!
2 months ago
Hey K1ngMars! Thanks for getting back to me :)
Yeah, I can see what you mean about the tutelage - I considered taking it but left it in figuring having a second Psychic Corrosion-esque card would be better odds than just one haha! But thanks for confirming my suspicions and I've filled it with Hinder .
That sounds like a good idea because I did have some reservations about the mana rocks but I was tempted by how much mana they can generate haha. But very fair point. I've added the Vessel of Endless Rest to hit two birds with one stone.
That Havengul Lich fits perfectly with the theme! Didn't know about that one so thanks heaps! I took out the Altar of Dementia because it was the last remaining card that was going to only target a player. I personally didn't want to because it would be nice to sacrifice a creature and get value out of it before someone maybe board wipes/murders or I Damnation . I was tempted to take Mesmeric Orb out but I figured it was better value...
No Mercy looks much better than an expensive cmc creature so yeah that will fit better!
Haha yeah after I took on the first suggestions about exile I was tempted being that it made sense given the sort of graveyard shenanigans that can appear in EDH, but when it came down to it I didn't put any in for the same reason you mentioned so no stress there haha! I did however want to leave Bitter Ordeal just so that I can remove any Gaea's Blessing cards or similar ones in my friends library. One has mentioned he will include one so haha!
Thank you so much for your help on this and I'm glad to know that the changes I've made have made the deck useful and I couldn't have done it with out yours and everyone else's help!
3 months ago
I'd like to see Gravestorm become something. It's only on Bitter Ordeal and I'd like to see it on more cards.
On another note I'd love to see dredge come back even though I know it's never going to happen.
3 months ago
Overall, the Commander choice can be swapped to any Legendary. I don't particularly like Teysa, Orzhov Scion as you need Teysa + Razaketh, the Foulblooded + a creature. Teysa's ability doesn't work on herself and Razaketh can't sacrifice himself. Daxos is the same CMC as Teysa, so they work the same, except Daxos is Pay 2 Life: Search your Library for a card and put that card into your hand. Teysa needs another creature on board, and in order to get a second tutor, the creature that dies needs to be . You could run Darkest Hour but you need to ensure it is on board before you sacrifice. If Darkest Hour is your first tutor, the you still have the issue of needing to sacrifice a creature for the Teysa token to enter.
Daxos + Razaketh + = Tutor.
Teysa + Razaketh + Creature = Tutor.
In both scenarios the Commander can be sacrificed for a second Tutor, but Teysa doesn't provide any value being sacrificed. Teysa doesn't see added value if the first creature sacrificed isn't Black, and won't see value over Daxos with the additional tutor line until the third Tutor. If need be, Daxos can be your second sacrifice, but with Teysa you will want to keep her on board to get any value from her.
Sanctum Prelate is an interesting card. My only concern is what number would we call? 2 seems most likely, to stop Counter magic, but that stops us from casting 2/3 of our Reanimate Auras. You could call 1 in order to stop the single mana Counters and then you only stop your own Altar of the Brood .
Winter Orb is a great idea, I will definitely look into adding it with other stuff like Defense Grid . You should not overvalue Serra's Sanctum though. I have it included in the deck because I own it, but it is rarely game breaking. It is a good land, but most games end before it really starts to show value. I find myself tutoring for Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth more often.
There are 8 cards to win from the LRW combo. A few of these pieces can be removed. Altar of the Brood is not one that should be removed though. It provides a win from LRW or the Bomberman combo. Grim Guardian works with both combos, (as long as you're running Daxos as the Commander), and Underworld Coinsmith is primarily for Bomberman. If you're looking to cut one or more of them, Falkenrath Noble is the most expensive to cast. If you want the universal effect then Cruel Celebrant or Zulaport Cutthroat are likely cuts. Altar of Dementia provides a Mill win if you don't have access to Altar of the Brood. This is a useful piece to keep as it helps you win around Solitary Confinement / Phyrexian Unlife effects.
Bitter Ordeal occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%