|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Ravnica Allegiance: Mythic Edition (RNAMED)||Mythic Rare|
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Vintage Masters (VMA)||Mythic Rare|
|Conspiracy (CNS)||Mythic Rare|
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Legendary Planeswalker — Dack
+1: Target player draws two cards, then discards two cards.
-2: Gain control of target artifact.
-6: You get an emblem with "Whenever you cast a spell that targets one or more permanents, gain control of those permanents."
Dack Fayden Discussion
3 weeks ago
@ jeacaveo Hey, thanks for dropping by. I've certainly been finding that high quality card advantage sources are tough to come by for this deck and that this seems to be perhaps the most necessary addition for the deck to be as competitive as possible against the top tier decks in the format. I'm not finding that Urza is a deck that has too much trouble against tier 2 and 3 cEDH decks, but as with most decks in the format the tier 1 are pretty troublesome and they seem to simply out grind in a meta that has become very grind oriented.
Power Artifact is in as one more means of redundancy and resiliency. It's relatively easy to fetch with a handful of tutors, and can be used on either Isochron Scepter or Grim Monolith to good effect. In a meta where every last single U/B deck in competitive play is now running Ashiok, Dream Render it's vitally important to have redundant engine pieces in the event that some are exiled. The very printing of that card is perhaps the most fundamentally format warping aspect of this new set in cEDH. Long gone are the days where decks could feel comfortable running one primary win condition and one secondary win condition. Multiple layers of redundancy are a must to be competitive at this point. Until testing demonstrably proves an acceptable degree of redundancy Power Artifact is in to provide it.
Karn, the Great Creator does indeed have a hefty price tag, but this is perfectly acceptable in the new meta we find ourselves in. Also long gone are the days where Turn 3 was the all encompassing turn and cards with higher converted mana costs didn't have a role. In this new, long, grindy as all hell meta, Karn shines as a way to asymmetrically disrupt the best opposing PS decks in the format as a passive hate piece (as well as destroying any 0 cmc artifacts opponents have in play while ticking up), and a way to actively recover important required combo pieces that might be exiled with Ashiok or even Praetor's Grasp (as Karn does not differentiate between face up or face down exile). He is deceptively tough to remove from the board as being at 4 cmc means Abrupt Decay can't hit him, has a rather high loyalty count making removing him via combat also difficult. Meanwhile the best decks in the format will find he is a piece that typically needs to be removed in order for them to effectively combo off as he completely shuts down all Isochron related lines, SDT related lines, etc. If the format meta at the top levels was still as fast as it was a year and a half ago he probably would not have a place, but the fastest decks in the format have long since been supplanted by superior decks in the intervening time that are better at controlling pace of the game and the best grinding deck in the meta is the deck most likely to win these days. Karn can help in that regard, and he has performed admirably in testing in a surprisingly wide range of match ups.
Mishra's Workshop is actually a card I'm a bit on the fence over. I do not, by any means, consider this card to be a requirement for this deck. There are even some situations as you so astutely recognize where it's drawback can be significant (there are times where you cannot cast a turn 2 Urza if Workshop is one of the lands in an opening hand). I will say that the situations in testing where it has been effective have been terrific, however. Turn 1 Astral Cornucopia , Mox Opal , Mana Crypt into Turn 1 Urza is extremely powerful. Turn 1 Trinisphere is extremely powerful. And it certainly never hurts to cast Paradox Engine off Workshop mana. I'll need more testing with it in before I determine whether it's use cases are too narrow for play, or if they are flexible enough to warrant an inclusion. It seemed like an interesting thought so for now it's in to be tested.
Howling Mine does indeed need Urza in play, but since the deck sort of revolves around having him in play and protecting him to keep him active it's not usually a case where the symmetrical effect is a drawback. I've been much more concerned with it's level of performance overall as a card advantage piece for Urza than I have with the rare moments it acts as a card advantage piece for opponents. I did try some other pieces that could turn it off ( Merchant's Dockhand for example), but ultimately found them lackluster and the times where they would be needed quite rare overall. Quite frankly, I'd prefer better card advantage sources, but in mono blue the options are rather limited in terms of quality.
Genesis Chamber is a new addition, it's being used with Skullclamp and other token pieces to see how that package performs in terms of providing a grinding advantage. I don't think I honestly expect it to perform at the level I'm looking for, but I also don't want to overlook any potential options in the quest to optimize Urza against the top tier decks, so it's going to get a fair shake in testing.
Elixir of Immortality is important for a few reasons. Ultimately, it's a layer of redundancy (recall the issue present at the moment in the meta with Ashiok) that enables looping, and it is a card that can be retrieved with Karn (even if all spells, every single one, are exiled from this list as long as the deck has Karn it has the ability to retrieve every required piece of at least one engine to combo win). Mostly it was included at first as a way to circumvent a particular looping issue however. Consider: in a deck where looping is the way to finish off opponents that only one real option can win on the turn where Urza combos off without having to wait a turn cycle to attack with Swans, Apes, or Constructs; Windfall. Only the deck could not actually perform this function as the only viable way to loop is Narset's Reversal + Timetwister . Using that loop enabler would restore the graveyards of opponents and the Windfall win line would not be possible. This means we would need to run an alternate immediate win con, but Lab Man, Jace, and Aetherflux Reservoir are all REALLY bad cards in cEDH being completely dead outside of comboing off. The better, more efficient option, is to simply run a mana efficient loop enabler that at worst is a 1 cmc mana rock. Urza doesn't mind cheap mana rocks, in fact, Urza likes those, and on occasion Elixir can also directly protect the graveyard from an Ashiok activation. It's inclusion was a natural progression of this line of thinking. The Elixir might ultimately be cut if I decide the deck is redundant and resilient enough without it, but I'm betting against that being the case with the way the meta has changed post Ashiok's printing.
Cryptic Command and Archmage's Charm are certainly on the expensive side, but again, as the format has slowed down significantly and grindier, more interactive decks are the prohibitive favorites in any given pod, these cards have a warranted slot in testing and testing has so far proven them to be very solid inclusions. I don't know about you, but I LIKE stealing an opponents Mystic Remora . It's far better than just destroying it. I LIKE stealing an opponents Sol Ring . Dack Fayden is still run in some cEDH lists and primarily is used to steal away mana rocks outside of being a win on a loop. The Charm is an even more flexible version of what he does and the mana cost isn't going to be tough for a mono blue deck based around a commander that turns all artifacts into blue moxen. Cryptic Command is also ideal on a loop to return all opposing permanents to hand in the event the deck must wait a turn cycle to attack with an infinite army as the risk of having that army destroyed or disrupted is much less if opponents have no board state at all the turn they need to disrupt it. A year or more ago, these are likely not cards I would have expected to perform well in the meta, but in the current meta these are cards with significant value.
Academy Ruins is the all important tutor land. I initially had Tabernacle in here in the original iteration before discovering that including that hate piece at all was extremely counterproductive and not an ideal direction for a deck that ideally wants Urza in play on turn 2 as often as possible. But when I cut the Tabernacle I didn't cut the land tutors because I noticed a particularly nifty interaction with, at first, Aether Spellbomb . Urza is not a deck that can operate like other PS decks where it tries to stutter start it's engine by using it's commanders ability to chug along on a slim mana margin until it eventually hits the pieces required for critical mass to begin generating infinite mana in a deterministic fashion. The process simply isn't as efficient as Thrasios and Tasigur and most often results in a fizzle and tapped out board state. This means Urza MUST already be able to generate infinite mana in a deterministic fashion using resources already available to it rather than relying on top deck RNG to find the proper resources. One good way I found to do this was to simply recast spells the deck already had access to (Crystal Shard being the most important method of doing so) and reliably being able to get Academy Ruins into play with Candelabra of Tawnos and Paradox Engine allows the deck to repeatedly cast Mind Stone or Aether Spellbomb and generate infinite mana from a deterministic line. The same 6 or so mana that might be used to blindly activate Urza's ability and hope and pray the deck hits (which the math proves, undeniably, is a lower percentage chance than a misfire) could instead simply be used to sacrifice a known quantity, hold priority on it's draw trigger, replace it on top of the library, draw it, and replay it to untap everything and proceed with the loop indefinitely. As long as the loop produces 1 net positive mana the loop succeeds in winning the game. The land tutors are in as ways to reliably enable this back up plan in the event it is required, which hasn't been too common in testing but it has happened a significant number of times.
High Tide and Extraplanar Lens were actually both in my original iteration of the deck and it was only after about 10 games of testing that I realized these cards don't actually do anything for this deck. Urza doesn't care about land mana generation, it runs off artifact mana generation. Dramatically more often than not these cards wound up simply being dead spells that didn't provide any value at all and the times where they did provide value it was of a negligible amount. Ultimately I realized neither of these cards was important to the way the deck wanted to operate and so I cut them. I do not expect I will return either to the list at any point, Urza, at least as constructed, isn't a Storm style deck that regularly makes use of untapping lands to generate extra mana and in the situations where this can be done it means the deck has already untapped a half dozen or dozen artifacts that are providing the mana needed. Essentially, these cards were identified as "win more" in function and summarily cut. Unwinding Clock was another cut in the same vein, dead out side of winning and only helped win harder as opposed to just helping win.
Back to Basics is a worthwhile consideration, but I've never felt like this was a particularly difficult hate piece to navigate when playing against it. Urza already has more universal means of locking down opponents resources that aren't limited to just lands and these means also don't care about land type, and are also able to be tutored for and more reliably employed where Back to Basics cannot. Rhystic Study is a card I am less and less and less enthused about in the current meta. It's a card that is essentially dead outside of playing it on Turn 1 or Turn 2, and Urza has things it already wants to be doing on those turns. If I get desperate for card draw sources this is a card that could make it's way back onto my list, but I'm going to have to be very desperate indeed as this card is no longer cEDH worthy. If you want to understand why just watch the most recent Lab Maniacs S3 gameplay video on YouTube. Sigi's Rhystic Study legitimately generated no value at all and sucked up 3 mana to play. Not a position I want to be in and yet that is the type of position this card puts players in given the state of the meta at the moment. Verity Circle has significantly out performed it in testing, dramatically so the longer a game goes on. Trail of Evidence is out for the time being while I test some other card draw sources. It performed acceptably well, it just didn't stand out and I was curious if I could do better. I think this is a card that could very likely make it's way back into the list, but I want to give every other potential option a try as well in testing so for the time being it's relegated to the bench.
Well, that was a lot of words! Thanks for dropping by though, it's always worthwhile to vocalize and consider the reasons for various inclusions and go over the reasons behind the choices. I expect a number of ridiculous seeming ideas will be tried in my attempts to make this list as competitive as possible and I fully expect most of these ridiculous ideas to prove unworthy in testing, but anything that has some degree of potential should be looked at and verified in practice or else I'd still be running cards like Rhystic Study blindly believing they would improve the overall deck performance. I'll certainly keep you posted on what worked out well and what silly ideas proved to be rather too silly as testing continues and I hope you'll return the favor with the things you test.
1 month ago
------ Not Viable for DCMD, Extremely slow or just bad to the bone... 20HP mate...
++++++ Gucci 80% - 100% + played cards in Jeskai, Also Auto-includes!
42 Lands GucciBass
12 Obvious DCMD cuts but okay for the slower MTGO1v1Cmdr :
1 month ago
1 month ago
Cards that fit your theme that we will discuss later. Fumble , Hazoret's Favor , Helm of Possession , Humble Defector , Hypnotic Siren , Illusory Gains , Kindred Charge , Macabre Mockery , Magus of the Unseen , Marchesa's Smuggler , Mass Mutiny , Mogg Cannon , Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker , Saheeli Rai , Spinal Embrace , Zealous Conscripts , Yahenni, Undying Partisan , Dack Fayden , Aladdin , Breaking / Entering , Beguiler of Wills , Bontu the Glorified , Brutal Hordechief , Angrath, the Flame-Chained .
1 month ago
Reasoning- I was looking into my list the other day and thinking about some staples in the cEDH community and was trying to find ways to fit them into my list. I was looking to see what I could cut when it finally dawned on me that I was only running 4 cards that were red that weren't my commander. Reckless Fireweaver and Firebrand Archer were easy cuts as they were redundant effects that only really made a difference when I was already winning in some other way. Wheel of Fortune got cut for Windfall which is both a positive and a negative. On the positive side it has potential to draw me more cards in some instances, however on the negative side it could also potentially draw me fewer cards. I would be running Timetwister though if I owned one. Dack Fayden was the hardest of the cards to cut. His effect has always been very good for me in the past but as it was the last red card in the deck I decided to remove him to make some room for more counter spells/interaction. So Dack, along with Fireweaver and Archer, became Flusterstorm , Force of Negation , and Chain of Vapor giving me more ways to interact with other peoples decks. Padeem, Consul of Innovation was an easy cut for Urza, Lord High Artificer as they both cost 4 mana, however Urza gives us much more utility as well as another win condition when we produce infinite mana. When looking through the deck I also realized that Trophy Mage only got us 5 different cards from the deck, all of which weren't super impressive. So I cut it in favor of Mystic Remora , why I wasn't already running Remora in a blue cEDH list I have no idea. Last card I cut was Temple of the False God in favor of a Mountain. I made this change because often times this list doesn't have many lands in play so drawing temple often was a dead card. With their only being 1 Mountain in the list it was an easy call to up that number to 2 just for a little bit more consistency. Though we cut all the red cards from the deck we still need red to cast Jhoira and we want to make sure we can always have her out as soon as possible.
1 month ago
The first thing I notice when looking at this list is that you run 41 lands. I strongly advise against this. In my experience, unless you’re a green landfall deck like Azusa, Lost but Seeking , there is little utility in running more than 34, maybe 35 lands. There are budget options for fetching, such as Evolving Wilds or Terramorphic Expanse , which you might find helpful for color fixing. Also, you might consider running the shock lands in your colors ( Hallowed Fountain , etc.). These can be grabbed by slow fetches like Flood Plain , and add a level of consistency to your mana base without breaking the bank. Hall of the Bandit Lord is also a consideration, though it can be pricey. Temple of Epiphany , Temple of Enlightenment and Temple of Triumph may be helpful to find more/fewer lands early, before Narset is down, and remove ‘dud’ lands from the top of your deck after she is ready to attack. Command Tower , Mana Confluence and City of Brass are also good additions.
My second piece of advice is to add top deck manipulation. While many of these kind of cards are expensive, like Jace, the Mind Sculptor , Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top , card’s like Ponder , Brainstorm and Preordain are very affordable. I especially advise the first two, as they permit stacking up to two spells on top of your deck before attacking with Narset, where Preordain only stacks one. However, all three are great in an opening hand looking for lands or action cards, and I would run all three in virtually all blue decks. Telling Time and Serum Visions are also contenders for this slot, though I don’t think as highly of them.
Mystical Tutor , Enlightened Tutor and Personal Tutor are also great ways to stack cards you need on top of your deck before a Narset trigger resolves. These are in the $20-$30 range though, so they may not be super accessible.
Strionic Resonator copies your generals ability... just sayin’.
If you don’t want to run counter magic, you should at least consider counter counter magic measures like Defense Grid or Price of Glory . These will make it way more difficult for your opponent to counter your general on her way down, or your free spells during the resolution of her trigger. Silence is also a good card from that view. Some interaction is always good, though. Here, I recommend Wrath of God , Supreme Verdict and/or Swords to Plowshares . The first two are board wipes that will hold back wide decks and give you time to cast your general; Swords is just the best spot removal in the game. Wear / Tear is another great piece of interaction in RUW.
With respect to your ramp: I see you’re running all three cluestones. I think the signets ( Azorius Signet , Boros Signet and Izzet Signet ) are better. In my experience there is a tremendous difference between 2- and 3-mana rocks in EDH. Similarly, I advise Talisman of Progress , Mind Stone , and Thought Vessel as ramp options. Coldsteel Heart is also a good idea.
Depending on your board presence during each game, you might consider Restore Balance , as a Narset trigger allows you to cast it immediately. This may be helpful if you can’t go off that turn, and just want to keep opposing boards in check.
Card draw and selection is a premium in EDH and decides most games. Chart a Course , Faithless Looting and Dack Fayden all come to mind when viewing your list. Ancestral Vision is about $10 these days, and is a fun flip off a Narset trigger, though Concentrate may be just straight better, as you can cast it from your hand as well. Mystic Remora is a good enchantment for drawing cards. If you choose to run a counter counter magic package, Dictate of Kruphix or Howling Mine may help; however, be weary of playing them when you have no counter protection, as they are symmetrical effects.
Finally, depending on how mean you are, Ravages of War , Armageddon and Cataclysm are possibilities. Nuke-ing all the lands means that Narset is very likely to take over the game, and resolving one of these spells may win the game on its own. Cataclysm is, in my experience, even more brutal than the other two, as it kills walkers and removes armies of blockers.
I hope you find this helpful; let me know if you need clarification on any of my comments.
Good luck with deck building!
1 month ago
So my first thought is that you should run a LOT of instants, rather than just 2. Vial smasher can trigger on ANY turn, not just one, so running something like Dig Through Time would be... really good. Generally, you'll want these instants to draw you more cards, so Fact or Fiction and Glimmer of Genius are also fine choices. Cards with alternate casting costs also tend to have high CMCs: for example, Force of Will is a Lava Axe in this deck, as well as a counter spell. While Force may be a pricey card, other cards from the same cycle aren't. Contagion is well under a dollar, and can potentially also 2-for-1 with opposing creatures, while Pyrokinesis is even stronger. Misdirection and Commandeer also come to mind. If you want to get REAL spicy, Mind's Dilation is another good way to cast spell on your opponents' turns, but bear in mind this card tends to be killed pretty fast.
Flash creatures like Torrential Gearhulk also seem like pretty good ideas.
I suggest replacing Vedalken Orrery with Leyline of Anticipation . It's (very) slightly harder to remove an enchantment than an artifact, but more importantly if Leyline is in your opening 7, you avoid having to pay its cost. I can see a world where you play both, though.
I see you're running a few mana rocks, but I advise more. Two mana rocks tend to be far superior to 3 mana rocks, so Dimir Signet and Rakdos Signet are likely better than Thought Vessel or Worn Powerstone . Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Indulgence also come to mind. Being in green means you have access to a whole host of dorks, like Llanowar Elves , Fyndhorn Elves , Arbor Elf , and Elves of Deep Shadow . These 1-drops may not look like much, but being able to accelerate you into quickly casting your general and then the following high-cost cards is a good thing. Orcish Lumberjack is a personal favorite in any red-green deck. However, if you choose to go via artifact ramp and not dork-ramp, this opens you to using effects like Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout to keep opponents' creatures in check. Ancient Tomb tends to be REAL nice for powering out turn-one 2-drop rocks. Depending on how blue-heavy your meta is, Carpet of Flowers can range from good to a straight-up powerhouse. If you take this part of my advice, your curve will drop significantly and you will be able to run 32-ish lands with no real problem.
You'll also probably want a good card-draw package, if you're planning to cast a lot of spells. Azra Oddsmaker is a goldmine if you have an open opponent to attack, and black has access to enchantments like Phyrexian Arena . Night's Whisper and Ambition's Cost are also good, and work well with Kydele.
Delve spells will act sort of like X-cost spells, but be easier to cast late-game and harder early-game. Empty the Pits may be interesting, but you should also consider Logic Knot , Treasure Cruise and Tasigur, the Golden Fang . Tasigur will give you an out later in the game for excess mana, and will allow you a level of recursion. In order to make these cards powerful, you need cards in the graveyard. For that, I recommend Faithless Looting , Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip and Dack Fayden . While these last two are pricier cards, I think looting is the best here of the three, as you can cast it turn one to filter out a hand that may be too heavy in lands or spells. The flashback is also very significant. Jace is a powerful card in that he allows more card filtration on a permanent, and allows you to snap back a spell if you want. Dack Fayden is a boss in EDH, where stealing a Sol Ring is very common. So even if you don't need to filter your draws, stealing a rock should be an option about 98% of the time.
Speaking of card filtration, Ponder , Preordain and Brainstorm are all potent cards in any blue deck. While they may not work particularly well with Vial Smasher, they all work rather well with Kydele while also giving you a cantrip to cast turn 1. A lot of times, these are the cards that make a boarderline-keep hand into a keep hand for me, as they are extremely good at finding lands and/or spells as need be.
With Kydele, cards like Windfall , Wheel of Fortune and Winds of Change all become rituals in addition to their usual effects. Running Notion Thief in conjunction with these 'everyone draws' spells is... good. Similarly, targeting an opponent with Dack Fayden 's +1 while Notion Thief is on the field is a pretty good way to tip the card-advantage scales in your favor.
I like Whip of Erebos . You should consider running some Entomb or Buried Alive effects with it, as that would allow you to get some one-shots in with powerful creatures when hitting an opponent or just when entering the battlefield. Nicol Bolas and Massacre Wurm comes to mind.
Good luck with deck building!
1 month ago
Dack Fayden occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.02%
UBR (Grixis): 0.46%